The impact of ADHD on workplace relationships

Workplace relationships can be challenging for anyone. But for people with ADHD, trouble with working memory, self-control, emotions, and more can make professionalism even more confusing.

Executive and ADHD coach Farah Jamil visits the show to clear up some common mysteries, like, how do I speak up for myself? And, what do I do when I’ve made a mistake? Listen for her answers, and some great tips to keep in your back pocket. 

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

Related resources

• I’m having communication issues at work. What’s going on?

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott

• Farah’s website

• Farah’s LinkedIn

Timestamps

(03:38) What does Farah do as an executive coach and ADHD coach?

(06:57) Recognizing that it’s OK not to have all of the answers at work

(09:40) How can ADHD affect collaboration in the workplace?

(11:01) The What, the How, and the Why

(13:03) How can ADHD affect communication in the workplace?

(14:56) Feeling socially awkward at work

(17:15) How to start identifying your needs

(19:36) Conflict in the workplace

(21:43) Communication strategies

(25:28) How can we take ownership of our mistakes?

(31:12) Fear of success

(34:37) Where you can find Farah

Episode transcript

Cate: Hi everybody. I'm Cate Osborn and welcome to "Sorry, I Missed This," the show where we talk about all things communication, relationships, intimacy, and sex with ADHD. Today we are talking about co-workers and how to survive and thrive in the workplace with ADHD. Specifically, I'm asking the question: How do we show as our best selves in the workplace? And how do we build strong and healthy co-working relationships in the workplace? 

Today's guest is executive coach and ADHD coach, instructor, speaker, and educator Farah Jamil, who has worked extensively on helping ADHDers in the workplace. Even more than that, she's the founder of Muslim ADHDers and Interfaith ADHDers, and she recently organized and hosted the first global Muslim ADHDers virtual summit on the intersectionality between ADHD, productivity, health, wellness, and faith, which I think is amazing. 

Long before I was "Catieosaurus," I worked as the entertainment director at the Georgia Renaissance Festival, and it was the best job that I had ever had. I got to do something different every single day. I got to make costumes. I got to paint. I got to teach actors about Shakespeare. I got to study history and Elizabethan England and all of the things that ignite my passion. And I was so excited. And then it turned out that I am a terrible boss. 

The failures that I experienced at the Georgia Renaissance Festival have stuck with me for a very long time, because there were parts of that job that I was incredible at. I loved walking around the fairground. I love interacting with people. I loved getting to host the Pirates Pub Crawl. And that is the voice I used, if you are wondering, dear listener. 

But when it came to handling employees, I struggled. And the reason why I struggled so badly was because I wanted to be liked. I was new, in a new town, in a new city, in a new state, with all new people around me every single day. And I was so worried that I was going to be perceived as a boss who was mean or demanding. And so what I did was I went too far the other direction and I was too nice. 

And then what would happen is that I would be very, very nice for a while, and then I would have to make a hard no, I would have to make the hard decision about something and people would get upset. They would get angry, and then I would bend over backwards trying to make them feel better. And the cycle continued and continued until it reached a head. 

I really hurt some people during that job and looking back on it, I regret it a lot because the choices that I made weren't informed by being a good leader. They were informed by my wanting to make everybody like me and be perceived as, you know, the cool, fun boss. And that lesson in leadership and how I approach things, those have stuck with me. 

And I'm proud of the leader that I have become, and I'm proud of the manager that I become. But I hate that people didn't get to know a better version of me as a leader. I'm upset that I let people down, and so, I'm really excited to welcome Farah Jamil to the podcast today, because we are going to talk about how to be a good boss with ADHD, how to get over imposter syndrome, how to get over rejection sensitivity, and how to move forward at your job in a way that works for both you and your brain and also the people around you. 

Farah, thank you so much for being on the show. 

Farah: Thank you so much for having me. I'm just so happy to be here. 

(03:33) What does Farah do as an executive coach and ADHD coach?

Cate: So, before we start, I would like to clarify because this is something that I thought was very interesting — you are a coach to executives, but also sometimes you are a coach for executive function. But those are two different things that you do. 

Farah: That is right. I say that I actually speak two languages, being an executive coach and an ADHD coach, because I trained in both. And it's just interesting how with the coaching paradigm there are so many similarities, but there are some nuances that I'm looking forward to discussing today. 

Cate: So, I'm curious though, do you ever get to, like, meld the two worlds where you work with executives who are also people with executive functioning issues? What does that look like? 

Farah: Yes, I do. And that's why I became an executive coach and an ADHD coach, because I myself am trained as an executive and I have ADHD, and it was hard for me after my diagnosis as an adult. You know, I was already working as, you know, an executive being in leadership positions. And not only did I not see anyone who looked like me talking about ADHD or about ADHD in the workplace, but I didn't really know of anyone who would admit that they were in a leadership position and were neurodivergent. 

I'm sure they were out there. It's just that when I was newly diagnosed a few years ago, I did not know where to look and it wasn't as easy to find. So, that's why I purposely trained in both because I saw the value of understanding these worlds. 

Cate: So, what did you learn when you started doing this work in melding these sort of two worlds together? What did you learn about ADHD in the workplace? 

Farah: So, I say one of the first things I learned is that I would have these clients who are in leadership positions and are neurodivergent, and they're so brilliant, but they have that imposter syndrome, that inner critic that is holding them back, and they would start leaning into the people pleasing mode, when in fact they need to lean more into the clarity mode.

They would feel embarrassed to ask clarifying questions because that imposter syndrome would come in "Oh, who do you think you are asking this? You're supposed to know the answer." Those kinds of gremlins would start entering instead of them really embracing, "OK, I'm thinking and processing this information differently, and I need clarity. I'm just going to ask."

So, I always say to my clients, "Ask, don't assume," first thing. Because even whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent, if you're not clear about something and you're in the boardroom, you do not want to then be leaving the boardroom, not having that clarity on where to go from here because, yeah, then things can really derail. I've seen it. 

And so, I think for myself, when I discovered that "Oh, wait a minute, why am I acting like I need to know everything? Who in this room knows everything? No one. So I'm going to ask." It really gave me confidence, actually, so I was able to lean into that in a way that worked for me. And that's what I help my clients with, is leaning into our neurodivergency, and knowing that it actually will make us stronger executives and leaders. 

(06:57) Recognizing that it’s OK not to have all of the answers at work

Cate: Do you think that utilizing that mindset of striving for clarity, striving for specificity, do you think that was something that helped you move out of imposter syndrome and more into being a more effective manager, CEO, fancy business lady? 

Farah: Absolutely. Because once I realized that I didn't have to know all the answers, I also wanted to model that to others in the boardroom, because I could sometimes see the confusion and fear in other people around the table. And some of them reported to me, and there were those whom I reported. And so, I was like, "Wait a minute, this is not helping any of us." 

I could see that they were not clear and they were just not going to ask the question. So, I actually asked for them. And I think I knew the answer most of the time. But I for whatever reason, I'm like, "But I want to help them, but I know it's going to help me too. It's going to help me clarify." So, I raised my hand. 

Cate: And what was that like? What happened? 

Farah: It was fantastic. Because here's the thing, the other trick is to do it professionally. So, I actually started practicing that beforehand. So, that's another thing that I work with my clients on, is building that script for yourself, anticipating some of those questions, but also looking back at your experiences when you were in a meeting or when you were with other stakeholders, what do you wish you would have done differently? 

And so, in our coaching sessions, we reflect on that and they're like, "Yeah, you know, I wish I said it this way." And so, just being able to mentally walk through it and build that script, that also helps build the confidence. So, when I asked that question, when I started doing that, and I'm talking to some of the most senior people, I put up my hand and I'm the only person in the room who's a woman of color — actually the only person of color — so I've got that added pressure. I'm like, "You know what? What have I got to lose?"

So, I started doing it. I started raising my hand and saying, "I understand this. I just need a little bit more clarity on this." And then I would then look over to that person and I could see how they had that relief. And then what I started doing as well was afterwards, I didn't hide it. I would go up to the person and say, "You know, I noticed that you seemed a little uncomfortable. That's why I ask the question." They're like, "Thank you so much." 

And then I would ask them, as their supervisor, I say, "So, I'm curious, what was keeping you from asking that question?" And these are people who are neurotypicals as well, by the way. But in this case, it doesn't matter whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent. It's building that confidence and knowing how to do it professionally. 

Cate: I want to talk about that for the rest of my life. That is so interesting. 

(09:40) How can ADHD affect collaboration in the workplace?

So, I'm curious about how in the workplace, how might ADHD impact someone's ability to communicate or collaborate effectively, particularly in a workplace setting? 

Farah: So, as you know, when you've met one neurodivergent person, you've met one neurodivergent person. But what I would say, though, is that a lot of the things that come up with my clients are one, the procrastination. So, you know, we're all on a project and suddenly the procrastination, because you can't focus, you need that time stress in order to focus. 

But then that can drive your colleagues crazy because they need things, you know, maybe sooner, even though they said that, "Oh, there's no rush." To me, that's like one of the worst things you can say to someone who's neurodivergent. "Oh, no rush," but what they secretly mean is I want it now. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Farah: It's like, OK, let's stop with that. Just tell me when you need something so that I don't procrastinate. 

Cate: That's instantly a point of clarity is... 

Farah: Yes. 

Cate: No rush. But what does No rush mean to you? Does that mean by the end of the day, by the end of the week, by the end of the quarter? When I had a job that wasn't being a podcast host, that was a huge problem, because my boss would do the exact same thing. You say, "Oh no, no big deal, no rush." And then, you know, three weeks later I'd have forgotten about it. And he says, "Well, whatever happened to that thing?" And I was like, "Well, you said, no rush, and I'm not in a rush." 

(11:01) The What, the How, and the Why

Farah: Exactly. And the other thing that I also help my clients with when it comes to clarity is better understanding the why. So, the what, the how, and the why. Those are three very important elements. So, the "what" is could be the task that they need to do. So, is that cause of the procrastination? Maybe not. They're like "No, no, this is actually an interesting task." 

OK. Now what about the "how." Do you know how to do it? Or is the fact that you got a stumbling block that's causing the procrastination? And now the "why." Do you know why you're doing this? Is it something that is really important to you or to the team? Is this something that your supervisor needs to take up the line? That can really help with the clarity and that can help with things like procrastination, imposter syndrome, all these things. 

Cate: Yeah. I mean, I was just going to say it feels like that's also just such a clear path forward. And through imposter syndrome is if you're not afraid to ask for that specificity, if you're not afraid to really get that clarity and really advocate for yourself, I can even see in my own life the places where that has been really instrumental and like, "Oh, maybe I'm not a fake or fraud. Maybe it's just that I needed a little bit of extra training or oh, I may, maybe I needed a couple of extra reminders." That's so powerful. I love that so much. 

One thing that I'm really interested in is just ADHD and communication, and the way that sometimes our executive functions can impact — how do I say this in a way that makes it the most ironic moment to have a weird way of saying something? 

But I guess what I'm asking is sometimes our executive functions can impact the way that we communicate and the way that we're trying to say things, whether it's a working memory thing or an emotional regulation thing. There's so many different ways that it can. But have you noticed in particular ways that those show up in the workplace? Does that make any sense at all? 

Farah: It makes sense to me. 

Cate: Perfect. 

(13:03) How can ADHD affect communication in the workplace?

Farah: So, when it comes to communication in the workplace, there are few things that come up for me. One is people's information processing style and communication style, how those work together. So, for example, I've had clients and myself included where they're in a meeting and they think on the spot. So, they're like processing things out loud. Now for some people in that boardroom, they're like, "What the heck? Like, where are they going with this?" Whereas some other people, they already have the answer right away, they blurted out, and they don't give any context. 

And everyone's just kind of sitting there being like, "OK, how did you even get to that?" So, what I've said to some of my clients is, "OK, if you know that you're the type of person who needs to process, like, you know, talk out loud, like think as you go — yeah, I'm like that too — let your team know from the beginning. So, before you say what you want to say, I would start off with something like, "I just need a minute to think this through," and then afterwards let me know what you think. 

So, now you are letting them know what you're about to do, and you're inviting them as well in the process. So, that makes it very collaborative. Instead of us being fearful now, like, "I'm not going to speak up because every time I do, people start rolling their eyes or they have no idea or they're glazing over. They don't know what I'm doing or what I'm saying." So, it helps them to help you and it helps you to help them. So, I actually call it like a triple win. 

Cate: Well, I think it's so interesting because the premise of this episode was sort of, how do you show up as your best self at work? But what it really seems like is this idea of cutting through imposter syndrome and showing up as your best self are absolutely intertwined and interlinked, and they go hand in hand with really navigating your needs, telling people about yourself and your experience. I think that's just so generative when it comes to this conversation. 

(14:56) Feeling socially awkward at work

So, the next question I have is, I know for me, I tend to be a very socially awkward person. I know, you're shocked, but I see that happen the most with co-working relationships. And I know that a lot of people that I've talked to with ADHD also have this where it's are we friends? Are we work friends? Are we hanging out afterwards? And so, I'm wondering, do you see a lot of impact on ADHD relationships, when it comes to co-working with their peers, that kind of thing? 

Farah: Yes, I see a lot of masking. I so appreciate these opportunities to talk about the importance of not only showing up as our best selves in the workplace, but to me, that's also synonymous as showing up as our authentic selves, unapologetically, but finding a way to do that so that we have that comfort and confidence. One of the hardest things that I had to realize is that not everyone is going to like me, and that's OK. 

I would go out of my way to be best friends with everyone because I thought that's how I could show how much I care and value others. And I'm like, "Oh, you mean I don't have to be everybody's best friend in order to be successful at work? I did not know that." So, I had to really do from the inside out. What do I need to be my best at work? What kind of relationships do I want with people in the professional realm? 

So, I start with myself. Instead of me like, you know, with the squirrel brain, it's like, "Oh, I see this shiny object. Maybe I'll try that. OK, no, I see this. Maybe I'll try that way. Oh, well, no, I just heard about this on YouTube. Maybe I should try that." You're just grasping at things when you're doing it from the outside in. But when you do it from the inside out, your being, your authentic self, and you're getting to better understand yourself so that they can better understand you and you can better understand them. 

So, start off with that. What do you need? And if you're not quite sure, try some things out. Experiment. I always call it like experiment, reflect, and refine. Even if things don't go well, it's like a complete, it just totally bombed, whatever the case may be, still learn from it. As long as you learn from it, it's never a waste of time. Ever. 

Because I know for us who have like time blindness, time is always like, you know, "Oh my gosh, I just put in all that work and nothing came out of it." No, no, no. Something came out of it. You learned something. So, now we know what to try next time. 

(17:15) How to start identifying your needs

Cate: What would that look like? If I'm a person who's been doing that outside in, I'm grasping at straws. I'm planning, you know, the escape rooms. I'm trying to be honest. I don't know why, but that's like a really popular corporate thing to do now. I don't know. You know, but, like, I'm trying to be everybody's best friend. So, like, what is the first step in that process of, "OK, here is me identifying my needs." Where do I start? 

Farah: Where to start? I mean, for those of us who have so many different ideas all at the same time, that can be the hardest part, right? So, for me, what I started with is what do I need to feel the most comfortable in the workplace? For me, respect is so important. We may not like each other, but we're here to do a job and I will still give you the respect that you are due because we're professionals. So, that's also part of managing boundaries, I would say. 

So, I talk about PB and J, which is not peanut butter and jelly, but I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. PB and J is priorities plus boundaries equals joy. So, if my priority is to have self-respect and respect for others, that means that even if I don't like someone, even if I can't stand them, I will still work with them professionally. If they don't treat me well, I will speak up. I will professionally call you out. So, for example," I can hear how stressed you are. But in order for us to move forward, I need clarity on this." 

Now they may still yell at me, fine, I don't care. Then I will say "I will come back. When you're able to have this discussion with me, I can see that you've got a lot going on. Let me know when I can come back," and I will walk out. And if that person tries to fire me for that, it won't work, because I also here's the other thing that's important to know when you're in the workplace, what are the workplace policies? 

Because someone can try to bully us and be like, "If you don't do it this way, I'm going to get you fired." "Really? Oh, OK. Well, according to this policy, blah blah blah blah blah." Also, check out your. State policies or your provincial policies. Don't be afraid to look into these things. And this is where bringing in those facts can sometimes really help in the workplace. 

(19:36) Conflict in the workplace

Cate: So, I really like that you brought up this idea of sometimes there is conflict in the workplace. Sometimes there are people that are difficult to get along with. So, in conversation with the very common experience of rejection, sensitivity and people-pleasing, especially in women with ADHD, how do we work to resolve those conflicts and disagreements while still respecting our boundaries, still respecting our needs, but hopefully reaching a positive outcome? 

Farah: So, I know it sounds difficult because I am so conflict-averse. I don't go around thinking, "Hey, who wants to fight me?"

Cate: You know, I'm the complete opposite. 

Farah: I actually avoid conflict at all costs. I think that's part of my people-pleasing. So, I call myself a recovering people pleaser. So, suppose if, and I hear this quite often, you're in a team meeting and suddenly someone says something or does something that is not cool and it makes everyone uncomfortable and you're just like, "What do I do?" 

So, there's a few approaches. One, I will now take them aside right away. I'm not going to wait a week or until the performance review. Nine months from now or a year from now. No. And this is something I learned from the book Radical Candor by Kim Scott, where it's very important that when you give and receive feedback that it's done like three components to it: it's kind, direct, and timely. 

And I'd say, "You know, I noticed this and I could see how it made a lot of us uncomfortable. I want to hear your side. Tell me more about what happened there." If I can see that they're really agitated and they need some time to cool down, I'll tell them, I said, "You know what? Let's take some time. How about we come back to this tomorrow?" 

But before, I would not do that because I was just too scared. Now I understand the power of that. So, not only am I helping myself, but I'm helping them. And I think that's what makes teams stronger. When you are not afraid to be like, "Hey, what's going on? What can we do together to make this work?" 

(21:43) Communication strategies

Cate: I love that so many of these answers are rooted in this idea of, again, like that personal advocacy, but also even just what you said, like direct, timely, kind. That's what I need too as an ADHDer. Like, I know that there have been times in the workplace where I have absolutely put my foot in my mouth. So, having that opportunity to immediately address it, that feels good for me as well, because then I know it's not lingering. It's not like awkward, you know, all of those different things. 

And so, it's making me think a lot about just communication strategies that are going to be particularly effective for individuals with ADHD. Is it always kind, direct, timely? Are there like other things that we can add in? What do you got? 

Farah: There are so many different personalities in the workplace. Let's just put aside the fact of someone's neurodivergent, neurotypical. We've got different personalities, different work styles, different expectations. You've got some people coming to work just for the paycheck. They clock in, they clock out. That's it. 

Then you've got some people who are, like, always chasing that promotion, and they are ruthless, like they will step over everyone. They don't care because for whatever reason, either they don't know that they're doing that or they've got some personal reasons for that. Maybe they came from a background where they didn't have a lot, and now they see this opportunity to really make something of themselves, but they've become so consumed with that they may not recognize how that's impacting everyone else around them. 

So, when it comes to communication, I would first say, know what works for you in communicating. And then when you have others on the team, ask them, "How do you like to communicate? Do you prefer Slack? Do you prefer email? Do you want me to come in person, over the phone? What is it?" Let's get rid of some of the mystery. 

I think a lot of workplace conflicts happen because we make so many assumptions, and we are somehow OK with too much mystery. But if you don't know how you communicate first, if you can't tell others, model that for other people, you know, "Hey, this is this is how I communicate" or "This is what works really well. If you can put in an email for me, but if it's too long, it's going to be difficult. Can you put bullets?"

I will tell people "Actually, can you tell me in the very beginning of the email what you need so I know what to pay attention to?" Or "Can you put bullets?" And then I ask them, and then "How can I support you?" So, it's not like all about me, me, me. I'm also going to support them. "What would work for you?" 

Cate: Not only is that a really useful thing for navigating ADHD in the workplace, it also just sounds like it would make you a really amazing boss to work for. 

Farah: You know, and I think I got my best performance reviews when I started doing these things because I learned I had ADHD. It helped me be more confident and that helped me to recognize, "Oh, OK. I can see now why this went sideways because I prioritize the wrong thing at the wrong time — which we tend to do and then I didn't let other people know about my boundaries or I overstepped someone's boundary."

Cate: It's like, "Darn it." Yeah.

Farah: So, it's just part of the self-awareness, is so important. And to be unapologetic, it's OK. We're all different, but it's what you do with it that counts. Harvard Business Review has shown research about how having teams with neurotypical and neurodivergent colleagues, they are actually so high performing because they're able to get to solutions faster in unique ways, but only if the team knows how to work together. So, I think we have to stop apologizing for who we are, and we have to start leveraging all of our awesomeness. 

(25:28) How can we take ownership of our mistakes?

Cate: I love that you said that, because literally my next question for you was, how do we take ownership of mistakes without making excuses or even just apologizing for who we are as people? Because sometimes that's the thing that I do, is I conflate my mistake with me as a person. And so, then I wound up just apologizing for existing. And that doesn't seem correct. 

Farah: Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because I have done a few workshops for ERGs, Employee Resource Groups, and they have like neurodivergent ERGs or ADHD ERGs. And that's a common question that I get, you know, "What do we do when we make a mistake?" Because that's so scary. 

Cate: Right? 

Farah: It's scary. It's like, "What if I said something stupid in front of the CEO?" Or "What if I, like, totally screwed up on something?" And what I tell them is probably something they don't like, "You own it. You own up to it." Because then if we keep hoping that they'll forget or we gloss over it, I can guarantee you it doesn't matter. Like if you, I don't know how to say this in a way that doesn't sound too weird. Suppose if you like, I'm just trying to think of, like, a really embarrassing thing. 

Cate: Oh, I have one. Do you want to hear mine? 

Farah: OK, please go ahead. 

Cate: OK, so when I was in high school — both of my parents were attorneys — and so, they did that parent thing where they were like, "You have to come work for our office during the summer and be responsible and have an internship." And I was like, "Great." So, like one of my first days at work, I got sent with the lunch order, which I messed up. That's not the mistake that I made, but the mistake that I did made was that I walked into the office, I tripped, and spilled a platter of soup all over the state's. attorney, like immediately before you had to go to court. And I was like, "Oh, no!" 

I just sort of like finger gunned, so I walked away and it was like...and it was fine. He had like a backup suit in his office, and, you know, it was like the whole thing, but it was just one of those things where I still remember that feeling of just like, "Oh, I have I have messed up and everyone knows it very visibly." 

Farah: That is an excellent example. Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing that, because that is far better than what I was trying to say. So, thank you. That's a great example of you do something and it's like you're mortified. You're like thinking all the things. "They're going to fire me. They're going to think I am crazy. They're going to think that I'm unprofessional. They're going to think all these things," right? Because now the narrative is building in our head and we're just like, "Oh my gosh, what do we do?" 

And so, this is an example of where, OK, in that moment he had to go to court. He had to go change into another suit. So, probably at that time you couldn't do much right except just to apologize. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Farah: But that's all you could do. I like the finger gun because that's something I would totally do. That's why I'm laughing. But then, OK, so I think for many of us we would just be like, "OK, I'm not going to say anything more about it. I've already embarrassed myself. That's it. I'm just going to be mortified for the rest of my time here." 

And so what I've said is, "No, you process that. That's embarrassing for anybody. Anybody." Whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent, that's an embarrassing thing. It happens to the best of us, right? But then it's what you do after that makes a difference. So, then what I would have said is, "What did you do the next day?" 

Cate: Do you want to know? I have my answer, I can tell you. 

Farah: Please, go ahead. 

Cate: I went to the little dry cleaner. I got him like a gift certificate for a dry cleaner thing. And then also he did call me "soupy" for the next five years. So, that was also fun. 

Farah: So, there you go. So, I can see how that you were trying to make amends, and that's great. I would even take that a step further. And I would say, "If you want to do that, get the dry clean. That's awesome." But then even just like acknowledging it, that "I am so sorry I tripped and spilled the soup on you. I'm really glad you had the backup suit, but I hope you can forgive me." Or like, "I hope that we can get past this," whatever the situation is. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Farah: Just even like doing that formal part I would say is still important. So, you did a great job in, like, you know, getting that dry cleaning certificate. That's awesome. I think that's great. But sometimes we have to still wrap it up with that professional formality and just have that apology. "Please accept my apologies for this." Do not go, "I suck, I am so this and I can't believe I did that and I am so mortified and blah blah." I mean, don't go on and on, there's no need. Just keep it to like 2 or 3 sentences and you're good to go. You're professional. 

They may call you "soupy" for a little while. OK. If that's something you're not OK with, then you know what you need to tell them that, right? Because that's another thing. It's like, "Oh, well, I deserve that." Like, you know, but for some people they may be like, "Oh my gosh, that makes me feel worse, especially with our emotional dysregulation. If you're going to keep saying that, I'm going to keep remembering it and just be constantly mortified and it's going to make me less confident." 

Again, that could be part of managing a boundary. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Farah: So, that's the other thing I say to people is "If something is happening in the workplace that you're not OK with, don't be silent, be professional and let them know, because when you let them know, they can help you and you can help each other." So, when I referred to the triple win last time, this is I was referring to. 

The first win is the inside out. First of all, knowing what you need to be your best and authentic awesome self. The second win is then when you let others know what you need on the team, that the team has that awareness and they can help you and you can help them. And the third win is that then you help the organization. Because when you know yourself best, when your team is able to be high functioning, then your organization is going to soar. So, that's the triple win. 

Cate: I feel like you just healed something inside 16-year-old Catie, who is still a little bit embarrassed about that, but that's fine. 

(31:12) Fear of success

You know what? I wasn't going to ask this, but I feel like I'm going to kick myself if I don't. And I'm just going to trust that the vulnerability of this question is perhaps something that someone else out there also needs to hear. Something that I have run into in my own life is I often find myself having these really cool opportunities, or these really interesting things happen to me. I'm up for like a job or a gig or whatever. And inside of me is this little bit of fear, and there's this little bit of trepidation and it's a little bit of an imposter syndrome. 

But even more than that, the more that I've started thinking about it, the more that I realize it's like I'm afraid of the power almost, like what would happen if I stepped into my destiny. What would happen if I just started being, like, the most badass business lady ever? And I don't know why that's so scary to me, but it's something that I've heard other people talk about as well. That sort of fear of change being a fear of power. And as much as I'm trying to avoid turning this podcast into therapy, I'm wondering if you have any advice for me or anyone who might be struggling with that? 

Farah: Yeah, and I would say I have the same struggle. To me, that's part of the emotional dysregulation. So, not only is there fear of failure, but there's also fear of success. 

Cate: Yes. 

Farah: It could be that for some of us, we've been so used to people either minimizing our talents or putting us down, or saying rude things to us that we've internalized it to the point where when we feel like we've got these great opportunities, we second guess, third guess, fourth guess ourselves because we are remembering — that's also the other thing about neuroplasticity — we're remembering these other things that people have said or that we have felt, and that is stopping us. And that's part of the impostor syndrome. That's part of the procrastination. 

I call it the 3 P loop, the procrastination, the perfectionism, and the paralysis. So, we procrastinate for various reasons, and when we can't be perfect in it, and then we feel paralyzed and we don't move forward. And there can be a lot of emotions behind that. So, for each of us, that's going to look a little different. But what I would say is whenever that happens, there's an opportunity for a mindset shift. 

Instead of leaning away from the fear, lean into it and ask yourself, "OK, where's this fear coming from? Is it because I remember so-and-so said this about me?" Or "I remember when I tried something last time I like failed spectacularly." Well, what did you learn from that? Some of my best lessons in the workplace and in life have been from the worst situations. I had to learn certain things the hard way, and I kind of wish I didn't have to, but I've gotten the best lessons from them. 

So, when that fear comes up, lean into it. Think to yourself if you don't do it, I mean, that could be a cost-benefit analysis, or in the business world, we do a cost-benefit analysis. What's the cost of doing it? What's the benefit? And find those people that you trust. Find those people that you trust and run it by them. Don't let that opportunity slip away. That's happened to me so many times as happened to others I know so many times, where we allow that fear to take over. 

(34:37) Where you can find Farah

Cate: Not me crying on my own podcast. It's fine. All right. Farah Jamil, you are an executive coach. You're an ADHD coach. You're an instructor. You're a speaker, an educator doing incredible work on intersectionality and faith in the ADHD community. Where can people find you? What do you want the people to know about you? 

Farah: Aww. I would say they can go to my website. It's not the best website. And I know this is part of my perfectionism. I'm a recovering perfectionist. But you can go to my website, which is just my name FarahJamil.com. So, F-A-R-A-H-J-A-M-I-L.com. And if you want to contact me, there's a contact form there where you can just drop me a line and I will get back to you. And also I'm on Instagram, so you can find me under the handles of MuslimADHDers as well as InterfaithADHDers. 

And I've got another handle that people can also find me under. It's exact.ADHD. coach. I'm not the best at social media. I'm like, I've got all these ideas. Like in my head, I'm amazing when it comes to these things. It's like, oh darn, I had all these posts in my head, just haven't implemented them. So, that's OK. 

But still reach out. You can DM me and you know what? If you've got some ideas, fire them my way. I'm guessing I may have thought of it, but I need you to be like, "Hey, why haven't you done this?" I'll be like, "You're right, I need to do this." So, that's part of the triple win, right? We can help each other. 

Cate: Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email me at SorryIMissedThis@understood.org. 

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org. 

"Sorry, I Missed This" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli and Margie DeSantis. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ilana Millner is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. For Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Cate Osborne. 

Thank you so much for listening. Remember to be kind to yourself, remember to be kind to others, and I'll see you again soon.