ADHD and self-advocacy at work

Self-advocacy and ADHD workplace disclosure come together in a package. It’s important to know yourself and your values in order to be the best self-advocate you can be. 

In this week’s episode, ADHD at Work founder Meghan Brown-Enyia answers the question: What is a good self-advocate? And, gives her recipe for advocating for yourself. 

Related resources

• What is self-advocacy?

• Pros and cons of disclosing a disability to employers

• Accommodations: What they are and how they work

• Meghan’s website, ADHDatwork.co

Timestamps

(03:05) Why did Meghan create ADHD at Work?

(06:59) Am I ready to be an ADHD self-advocate?

(09:37) Meghan’s recipe for self-advocacy

(13:19) Self-advocacy and emotional regulation

(16:08) How do you figure out your ADHD needs in the workplace?

(19:33) Best practices for asking for supports

(24:00) Am I a bad self-advocate if I choose not to disclose my ADHD?

(26:36) Where you can find Meghan

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

Episode transcript

Cate: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to "Sorry, I Missed This," the show where we talk all things ADHD and how it affects intimacy, relationships, and communication. It's me your host, Cate Osborn. Hello. Thanks for being here.

Today on "Sorry, I Missed This," we are asking the question: When and why should we disclose at work? But even more than that, I'm talking with today's guest expert Meghan Brown-Enyia about the best way to be your own self-advocate in the workplace.

I have a confession for you, dear listeners, which is that I thought this episode was going to be easy because in my head I thought the question of "Should I tell my boss that I have ADHD or not?" was a fairly simple one. And I know there's some nuances about the hows and the whys and the whens and that kind of stuff.

But as I researched and as I talked to more women with ADHD, and as I started opening the conversation to the community at large, I realized that under the surface of the question "Should I disclose at work?" was a much, much more interesting and much more, I think, important question, which is "How do we show up to be our own best self-advocates? What are the skills that we need to develop in order to become a good self-advocate?"

And that really excited me because self-advocacy is something that I have always struggled with. I don't know about you, dear listener, but I grew up in a house where asking for what you need wasn't always met in a receptive way, and especially the complications and issues that come up with ADHD, right? It can be so funny to have to be like, "Hey, I'm distracted by all of this background noise. Can we go somewhere else?" "What do you mean? You're just being overdramatic. You're just being silly. You're just being overly sensitive," whatever the criticism might be.

And so, for me, I learned to internalize a lot of my struggles. Externally, I look successful, but inside there is a lot going on, and learning to be a good self-advocate means learning to work not only with what people are seeing externally, but also what you're dealing with internally. And that is one of the reasons why I am so excited to introduce you to our guest today.

Her name is Meghan Brown-Enyia, and she has built a career and social media following providing incredible guidance for ADHD individuals to work. She's the founder of "ADHD at Work." She is a certified ADA coordinator. She's an executive function coach. She's an HR consultant, she's an educator, a writer, a workshop instructor, an incredible voice in the ADHD community. And she is here to talk to us about self-advocacy and the skills and the things that we can do to practice and learn and grow and strengthen our self-advocacy muscles.

And so, I am so excited to welcome her to the show. Let's start the show. Meghan, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show.

Meghan: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

(03:05) Why did Meghan create ADHD at Work?

Cate: How did you get into creating "ADHD at Work"? How did you decide and noticed that niche was needed in the ADHD community?

Meghan: So, I was working in special education for over a decade before realizing that I actually had ADHD, and I probably should have been sitting at the other side of the table, and getting resources and getting support. So, in the workplace, I was always really frustrated because I felt like if you took person A and put them in position Z instead of the one that they were hired for, they would actually be better at the role.

So, I was always in a position where I was recognizing people's strengths and people's weaknesses and also in the position where I was designing roles, right? And so, I'm doing hiring and I'm creating positions. I kept seeing a mismatch, and I also kept seeing adults not being supported in the same way that they were expecting to be supportive to kids. There was this disconnect around employees needing the same support that they were supposed to be providing.

And for me, that felt so unfair. Like we're in the educational system, we're contradicting ourselves. So, when I started to think about what was really bothering me and the direction that I wanted to go in my career, I kind of put it all together. Because I believe that all people can thrive with the right supports in and they're in the right place.

Cate: I love that you said that because one of the first times that I sort of interacted with your content was you wrote a beautiful article about the strengths that ADHD people bring into the workplace and how recognizing those strengths, just like you were saying, can be so important for not only our executive functioning, but also just like our sense of self and well-being. And I wondered, like, can you talk a little bit about why should you hire a person with ADHD? Why do we rule?

Meghan: You know, the bottom line is like, you need us. Like we can't live in this world with just one way of thinking. It doesn't work. Just like you can't rule the world with just the ADHD way of thinking either.

Cate: Yeah.

Meghan: You need each other to balance. You need the creative side, you need the leader, the sitting at the table that has all of the ideas you need, the person that's thinking outside of the box. You need the person that's thinking big picture. You need the person that sees all of the things that you don't see because you're so narrowly focused. And so, you need us just as much as we need you, because we also need the structure and the organization and the support with planning and prioritization. But you need us to be the creative minds in order to help your business reach the next level.

Cate: You got into a line of work where you're coaching people with ADHD, but you're also working with businesses and organizations to help them learn how to better support their neurodivergent employees.

Meghan: Yes, that is the goal. So, when I meet with clients, I also get the opportunity to meet with the organization for the clients that the organization is paying for the service. And so, I have conversations with them about how their own behavior is impacting the ADHDer. I don't come from the space where you have an employee with ADHD, and that employee needs to change their entire, well, person in order to be accepted within their community.

And there are things that are happening within organizations that need to change in order to create more inclusive spaces. And that's anything from the hiring process, the interview process, or the job application. And this is all stuff that happens before the employee is even working there. And then when I have conversations with their manager or the HR department like these are the things that you need to do differently in order to be more supportive.

A lot of it is a mindset shift. They need support with planning and prioritization and they're requesting to have weekly meetings. It's not just weekly meetings because you need to micromanage them or to babysit their work. That's not it. It's supporting with planning a prioritization. And so, you know, as their job as a manager, it is to help ensure that that particular employee is successful in their role.

(06:59) Am I ready to be an ADHD self-advocate?

Cate: Earlier, you talked about sort of both sides of the table, the person with ADHD and needing support, and then also the organization who is working to support that neurodivergent ADHD individual. So, originally, dear listener, I'm going to spoil something for you, is that we meet our guests ahead of time and we talk about stuff because sometimes it helps to have a plan and that helps my neurodivergence. And so, that's why we do that.

But so, earlier in our pre-meeting, Meghan, we had talked about this idea of making this episode about disclosure, how to disclose, when to disclose, why it might be a good idea to explode...I said explode. Meghan, do you think I should explode at work? Yes or no? But you said something incredible and brilliant, which was that before we talk about disclosure, we need to examine and ask ourselves questions about our skills as self-advocates and whether we're in a place to confidently disclose and how we go through that process.

I'm so interested in that idea of self-advocacy and how self-advocacy not only in the act of disclosure, but also just advocacy in our own lives, how that supports our ADHD. That was such a long question, but basically, Meghan, talk about that, please.

Meghan: Self-advocacy is all about being able to communicate in these thoughts and feelings, right? And so are you comfortable with doing that when it comes to disclosing ADHD at work? Is identifying as a person with ADHD something that you even accepted? Are you just finding out and you're still just processing what it means in order to be an adult with ADHD?

When I was in college, I was very comfortable with being an advocate, like in an all-white university. That's majority man, right? And so, just recognizing like I'm a Black woman in a space that I was not always welcome to be in. I didn't even self-advocate for myself when it comes to the fact that I couldn't see in the classroom and I really needed glasses. I didn't even dot on to me because my entire mental space was consumed with being an advocate for being a Black woman in that particular space.

So, when you have other identifiers that are maxing your brain space, do you even have the capacity to be a self-advocate for yourself about the ADHD? So, now you're in this position where like, OK, I know that I can get supports, but do I have the capacity to be a self-advocate? Do I even know what it means to be a self-advocate in this particular context?

(09:37) Meghan's recipe for self-advocacy

Cate: So, what I would love for you to do, Megan, is you have come up with this brilliant sort of recipe for self-advocacy. And if we're talking about disclosure is, I think, as a very core, a radical type of self-advocacy where we are standing up and we're saying, "Nope, this is what I need to be successful." So, I would love for you to talk us through that recipe, one ingredient, one step at a time, and teach us how to be better advocates for ourselves.

Meghan: So, one of my ingredients is communication. And so, when you think about communication, you recognize that as a part of the process, you're working with the department, you're working with people that don't know anything about ADHD. Are you in a position to be able to clearly articulate your needs? Do you know what it is that you need? Do you know enough about your own ADHD in order to be able to identify what your needs are? Do you know what supports are going to be helpful in order to improve your job performance or just improve how you're feeling on the job?

Because some people come to me and they want to they like, "I just want to feel like I can do this work." But what does that mean? And then do you know how to articulate that? Can you define those terms?

Cate: I want to delve into that a little bit more. So, let's say we're traveling back in time and we're newly diagnosed Meghan, and we're newly diagnosed Cate. How do we do that? How do we start that process of learning to be good communicators in context of ADHD, in learning to ask for what we need? How do we do that?

Meghan: It includes one of my other ingredients, which is knowledge. So, can you, have you increased your knowledge and what does it mean to have it, like what ADHD is? You know, what I do with my clients is that I have them do an executive functioning assessment. And so, we take a look at how your brain is actually working and be able to define terms and then be able to connect those terms to your job tasks.

And like, in some cases, people don't even know what they're supposed to be doing at work in the first place, because, you know, you sign up for a job and then you get there and it's a completely different experience, right? And so, there's a lot of miscommunication happening within workspaces in general. And so, you have to take a look at what it is that you're doing. You have to take a look at how your brain is working and then be able to identify what supports are going to be helpful in that case.

And that's going to require you to do some research or to connect with a coach like myself or, and there's a lot of different resources online to be able to better understand, like to be able to connect the dots. And then you're going to be in a position to be able to say, "OK look, this is my issue, this is how my brain works. And then I put those two together and then this is what additional supports are going to be helpful in order for me to be successful in this role."

Cate: So, what is the next part of your recipe for self-advocacy?

Meghan: So, we also have negotiation, and this is what comes in a place where, like you need to understand that this is a give-and-take process and that your accommodations also may not be approved. And then what does get approved, you need to try it out and then let people know whether or not this is working or it's not, so you can make some adjustments.

And then the last part is resilience and just recognizing that there may be some setbacks along the way. There may be some hiccups along the way. People may take a really long time to get back to you. And then also, you may find yourself in a position where you are being put on a PIP in addition to accessing accommodations at the same time. And a PIP is performance improvement plan. And so, you know, people may be questioning your performance while you're also asking for supports at the exact same time.

And so, building up some level of resilience and to be able to handle some of the drama and trauma that may come with that process.

(13:19) Self-advocacy and emotional regulation

Cate: One of the things that I really struggle with when it comes to my ADHD are things like emotional regulation and frustration tolerance. And so, it makes perfect sense that if I'm like, "Hey, I really need this help." And then they're like, "Well, actually you're doing a bad job." Like, of course that's going to be like triggering. Of course that's going to be something that can emotionally disregulate you. And so what do you recommend for working through that in like a positive, healthy way in order to sort of get to the end of the process?

Meghan: So, one is like, don't be surprised if it happens. And so, you know, sometimes we're triggered because our expectations are off, like we're walking into the situation thinking that it should just run smoothly. And so if we're walking into the situation knowing that it may be a little bumpy, that sets us mentally up for success. That's an unfortunate reality, but that's the reality.

Cate: So, I mean, sometimes it happens, you know, it's like even outside of ADHD, you know, asking for an extension or a raise. But I think it can feel so much more personal when we're talking about this thing that I'm asking for in order to be successful, in order to be the best possible version of myself. It's easy to attach a lot of emotional weight to that.

Meghan: Then you're starting to ask yourself, like, "Do you actually care about me as an employee for your organization?" Or "Don't you recognize that I'm struggling? And don't you see that I'm communicating this? And don't you see how hard it is for me to communicate this? And then you're still taking your time or you're still not listening." And so, you start to have these thoughts that can ruminate, but you need to recognize what those thoughts are, what emotions that they're now triggering for you, and how those emotions are triggering your actions and your outcomes.

You may not have control over the initial thought, but you have some control over what you do with it afterwards. And so, when you find yourself in those moments, like are you in a position to be able to then get out of fight or flight mode and then start to do some more rational thinking using that frontal lobe and getting from…getting out of the back of your head, into the front of your head and being able to then position yourself to identify what outcomes that you're actually looking for, what action steps you need to put in place? How do you need to feel in order to access it and to be able to implement those actions? And then what thoughts is going to now trigger you?

And so, shifting from "They don't care about me" to "Actually, this organization is really large and they probably are receiving about 15,000 different requests for ADA accommodation or just is one person and that they're doing the best that they can."

Cate: Well, I will say that there are some incredible resources. Dear listener on Understood.org and other ADHD organization websites that can talk about how ADHD impacts work, how ADHD can impact, you know, communication. Whatever you might be looking for, Understood is a great place to start.

(16:08) How do you figure out your ADHD needs in the workplace?

The place where my brain goes, and this is a little bit where… not to toot my own horn, but this is a lot of what my book focuses on that's coming out in 2025, dear listener, if you'd like to buy it. Shill, shill, shill. In our book, we talk a lot about experimenting and a lot of about how having ADHD is also an exercise in getting to know yourself and learning what works and what doesn't work.

And in your work as a coach for people at work with ADHD, that is the most complicated way of saying that ever. How do you recommend folks with ADHD learn to navigate those needs? What are we doing to find things that work for us or don't work for us, even? How do we know when we're failing or succeeding? What's the metric?

Meghan: One, I just want to point out, like you don't have to figure everything yourself. Like that's first and foremost.

Cate: Or all at once.

Meghan: Yes. You don't have to figure out everything all at once and you don't have to figure out things for yourself. When you think about the process of getting additional supports, it's an interactive process. You start to engage in "These are the things that you start with," then you practice and see like, "OK, is this working? Is this not working?" And then you'll be able to give that feedback and then you can come up with something else.

So, it is a little bit of trial and error sometimes as well. And so, you don't like, you know, when they give you the form and you fill it out, you don't have to know all the answers immediately.

But you can give the form to people like me or you can give the form to your psychologist that, well, the psychologist that actually specializes in ADHD and not just any psychologist, because that makes a really big difference in terms of what supports they need. They're going to be able to help you and to guide you through the thought process about what is going to be helpful and what isn't.

This is where you have the opportunity to lean on your strengths as the ADHDer, like lean on your creativity, and recognize that you're going to be doing what is going to be helpful for you. Release yourself from the shame. Release yourself from trying to do things the way that everybody else does them. If this is something, a strategy that works for you, great. Let's put it on the paper and like let's implement it.

Cate: I think the idea of letting go of shame and guilt, of not being able to do things the way that other people do them, that's such a crucial thing that for some reason seems to be really difficult to learn for, and I'm not saying like all of those other people, but also for myself. And I wonder, like, do you have any theories about why that is, why it can be so difficult to just be like, "Actually, I do need help and this support would help me out a lot"?

Meghan: All the policies and procedures and practices are all built around the neurotypical brain, right? Like you are trained to think and to believe a certain way, like your entire system that you grew up and are training you to believe that everything needs to be done a certain way, what's right and what isn't right.

And so, now you're in a space like I was 38 when I got diagnosed, and so now I had 38 years of doing something and using systems and practices that did not work for me. And now I'm relearning. So, I'm age-wise, I'm only a couple of years old, right? When it comes to my ADHD world. And so, I have to relearn how to do things, like I'm still young.

Cate: That's such a good way of saying that. I feel like you just changed my life forever. But yeah, I'm like five. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just I'm just out here doing my best. I just learned how to put my shoes away in a way that works for me. You know what I mean? Like, it's a really good way of building on that and talking about that.

(19:33) Best practices for asking for supports

Do you have best practices that you like to encourage folks to use when they are having that first conversation with HR or, you know, their boss or whatever about just asking for supports?

Meghan: The one best practice is like making sure that you're ready and make sure that you're coming to the conversation informed. So, you know that when you are telling them they actually have to do something about it and so you have to make sure that you're triggering that process. And then other best practice is be ready to be prepared to document every part of that conversation. Because if, and in some cases, when it goes wrong, you have to, you ensure that you have the appropriate documentation so that you can get what it is that you actually need.

Cate: Well, that's part of self-advocacy. You know, that's such a big part of it, is making sure that people hold up their end of the bargain if you're going to do all the work.

Meghan: Right.

Cate: But OK, so then that leads me to a question that I get asked 1000 times a week, which is what happens when I go to my boss and I say, "Hey, I have ADHD, and it would be really helpful for me to have X, Y, Z supports." And my boss says "No" or "ADHD isn't real. It's just you're just not trying hard enough." What do we do in a circumstance like that?

Meghan: OK, one, put something in writing. Even if you had that conversation in person, follow up with an email and making sure that you're CCing HR. Be like, "OK. I'm also going to communicate with HR so that I can start the ADA process." And regardless of whatever your manager's opinion is about it, I mean it's irrelevant until it's not, right? So, it's irrelevant in terms of starting the process and getting your support. It's relevant when they don't want to implement the supports.

But that's why it's important to include your HR department or the disability office or wherever that particular office is sitting within your organization and recognize if you have other disabilities that are happening too, you can also get accommodations for those as well. You know, ADHD doesn't always come by itself. And so, if you experience anxiety or depression, like you can get accommodations for all those things. But your manager's opinion about your diagnosis is irrelevant until it becomes relevant.

Cate: It makes sense. I'm curious, too, about folks who are in less traditional corporate environments. Like my last job before this was there was a guy and he was my boss and that was it. There was one dude. So, what do you do in a circumstance where there might not be an HR department or it's like a mom-and-pop or it's, you know, like a restaurant or something more like that. How do we handle disclosure or asking for accommodations in those circumstances?

Meghan: And now, recognizing that ADA covers organizations that are 15 or more employees. And so, if you are smaller than 15 employees, it depends on your state. Depending on what state you're in, you may or may not be covered under ADA. Now, whether or not everybody should just be following laws that are put in place so that we're not discriminated against each other, I absolutely believe that everybody should just be following it, regardless of how many employees you have.

But like if you're in Texas, is 15, but if you're in New York, it's like 1 or 2. You know, it depends on the policies and the politics of those particular parts of the country. But there are 1-800 numbers. There's advocacy. There's ADA centers across the country that have laws on speed dial, and you can always call them and get a lot more specific information about the laws within your state. And they actually call you back. And I would do all of that research before you start talking to people within your company.

But if you're choosing to not disclose, you can still ask for things, right? And so, depending on what position you're in, maybe like a restaurant and you're a waitress, but you're having a working memory challenge. And so, the question is like, can you, is it against restaurant policy to use something to write with in order to catch people's orders? Or is there something else that you can use in order to do that, like a mic that's going to record the people's order so that you can kind of listen to it later?

Cate: I'm reminded of a time I used to work at this little sandwich shop and there was this woman who would come in all the time for soup, and she would get so mad that I would write down her order every time because she'd get the same thing every day. And I was like, "Ma'am, do you want it to be right? I'm not going to remember. So, do you want me to write it down or do you want me to not just so you can have that experience?"

Meghan: And that's self-advocacy. But that’s self-advocacy.

Cate: Right? And I was like, "Listen, lady, like, this is not a fancy restaurant. Get over yourself."

(24:00) Am I a bad self-advocate if I choose not to disclose my ADHD?

The sort of spicy, hot-take question that I would like to ask you is, am I a bad self-advocate if I choose not to report to my boss or not to file a complaint because I don't have the time or the energy or financial stability? Does that make me a terrible, bad ADHD haver?

Meghan: No. It sounds like you're actually being a self-advocate because you are recognizing that you do not have the capacity to be able to manage that and you're doing what's best for you in that moment. Now, will you be able to get certain things within the workplace? No. But also, are you OK with that? If the answer is yes, then what's the problem?

Cate: The idea of disclosure is primarily to be legally covered for asking for accommodations. Like "I have ADHD, therefore, it would be helpful for me if I had the following accommodations," But self-advocacy that is much, much larger than just asking for accommodations.

Meghan: Yes, it's doing what's right for you. And do you know what's right for you in the moment? And what's right for you today may not be right for you next week. So, it's not like, "I'm choosing to not disclose this week, and then, I can't ever not disclose because I made that one decision." No.

Cate: I mean, it's so funny how well it lines up with consent in that it's constantly changeable. It's constantly movable. Sometimes it's just easier to listen to your co-worker make a dumb joke about ADHD and go "Ugh, Chad!" and then just, like, move on, right? His name is Chad.

Meghan: I think it's important for everybody to understand that you can take the self-advocacy hat on and off whenever you want.

Cate: I felt something stirred within my soul when you said that. Please expound.

Meghan: You have a choice to ask for what it is that you need. You have a choice to not ask for what it is that you need. And you have a choice to not investigate what it is that you need for you. Today may not be the day that you want to be the self-advocate and speak up about ADHD in the workplace. You may be tired. You may be, I just said, like I just want to go to work and I just want to go home. All this other foolishness that happens in the workplace, I leave it there and I come home and I go to the life that I actually enjoy.

Cate: Thanks, capitalism.

Meghan: It's all identifying what it is you need and when you need it. If you're choosing to not speak up, that's a choice. But that's also being an advocate for yourself, because it may not be the day that you want to hear what anybody else has to say about ADHD.

(26:36) Where you can find Meghan

Cate: Powerful, wise, amazing words from Meghan Brown-Enyia. Thank you so much for being here. I really, really appreciate it. I've learned so much. Can you please tell the people where to find you?

Meghan: You can find me on my website at www.adhdatwork.co not com. And I'm also on Instagram at ADHD at work. And also, what is it X now? X sounds weird to say, but…

Cate: I still call it Twitter. It's fine.

Meghan: Yeah, Twitter, Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it. Instagram has threads too, right? So, threads. My handle is ADHD at work for pretty much all of the social media.

Cate: And if you are not checking out Meghan's content, dear listener, please do because it's chef's kiss.

Meghan: Thanks.

Cate: Do you have any last thoughts or words of wisdom for our dear listeners before we go?

Meghan: I do want people to also reach and look at my blog as well, because I'm going through all of the different executive functions that are impacting you in the workplace. And I'm looking at it from both angles, from the person with ADHD, but then also the employer angle. And so I'm giving instructions or giving support options for both people because, you know, when people are having these conversations with their manager and the managers like, "I don't know how to support you," then you can direct them to read my blog.

So, it's like, "OK, well I'm actually really good at this and now I have the language to talk about it at work. And now I want you, dear director, to also read this article, because this article is going to tell you like why I'm so strong in this particular area from just a neurological standpoint, but then also how you can shift in order to ensure that you're supporting me in maximizing my strengths."

Cate: Amazing. Go check out those resources, please, dear listener. adhdatwork.co not dot com.

Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email me at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org.

"Sorry, I Missed This" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli and Margie DeSantis. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ilana Millner is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director.

For Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. I'm your host, Cate Osborn. Thank you so much for listening.

You will all be devastated to know that my dog is very mad that I just took away her squeaky toy.