A deeper dive on ADHD, sex, and consent (Cate Osborn is back!)

ADHD affects our whole life — even our sex life. Our friend Cate Osborn, who has a background in sex education, is back to chat with host Laura Key about executive function challenges that may pop up in the bedroom. Cate and Laura dive into topics like ADHD and consent, working memory, and rejection sensitivity. 

Cate hosts another Understood.org podcast, Sorry, I Missed This, a show about ADHD, intimacy, and communication. Check it out for some deeper dives into this episode’s topics!

Note: This episode contains conversation about sexual assault. 

Want to share your “aha” moment? We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at ADHDAha@understood.org.

Related resources

• Rainn.org

• Hear Cate’s personal story: ADHD and hormones (Cate Osborn’s story) 

• Cate’s podcast, Sorry, I Missed This!

Timestamps

(02:34) Why it’s called “Sorry, I Missed This”

(6:50) Executive function impact on relationships

(10:04) “Sex is a task”

(12:20)Task initiation impact on relationships

(14:07) Communication, working memory, and consent

(16:31) Time perception, impulsiveness, and dating

(20:46) “It’s not your fault”

(23:19) How to approach consent as a person with ADHD

(27:33) Cate’s own journey with ADHD and sexuality

(30:09) How rejection sensitivity complicates consent

(33:32) Cate’s email

Episode transcript

Jessamine: Hey, everyone, it's Jessamine. Before we begin the episode, we wanted to let you know that Laura and her guest Cate, talk about sexual assault during this episode. If you or someone you know needs help, please visit rainn.org. That's our R-A-I-N-N dot org.

Cate: When I started looking at executive functioning and what it is and how it works and the way that it sort of helps us go through our day. I had this honestly, like this really big "aha" moment that was like, of course, it affects our sex life.

Laura: This is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I head up our editorial team here at Understood.org, and as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I am here today with Cate Osborn.

Cate: I'm back.

Laura: Cate is back, Catieosaurus on TikTok, host of another show in the Understood Podcast Network called "Sorry, I Missed This." We're going to talk all about that. Cate, welcome back to "ADHD Aha!"

Cate: Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be back here with you.

Laura: I'm at home today. I'm feeling good. We're recording on a Friday.

Cate: No, we're not. It's Thursday. Wait, is it Friday?

Laura: Oh my God, I thought it was Friday.

Cate: I was like it can't be Friday, because I just missed an entire day of DragonCon.

Laura: I did not plan that. We're going to keep that in.

Cate: That was real panic and fear that you just...

Laura: My heart just started pounding as well. What am I doing?

Cate: We're crushing the game today, Laura.

Laura: Today, Cate, we are going to talk about sex. Some people aren't comfortable with hearing about sex. So, if you are one of those people, what do you usually say, Cate?

Cate: Well, I usually say "If you don't want to see this kind of content, grab a fruit snack on the way out. But if you stay you can also have a fruit snack." A lot of people ask me in the comments if they can have a fruit snack if they stay, and I'm like, "Yes, the fruit snacks are for everyone. They're just there, proverbially."

Laura: So, yes, today we're going to talk about ADHD and sex. We're going to talk about consent. We're going to talk about intimacy. We are going to talk about topics that don't get talked about enough in the neurodivergent community, which is what your all about, Cate. But before we get into that, can you explain what's behind the title of the show that you're hosting, "Sorry, I Missed This"?

(02:34) Why it's called "Sorry, I Missed This"

Cate: I would love to, Laura. Thank you so much for asking. The title, honestly, it kind of started out as a funny joke. We were kind of throwing around different ideas and I was like, What is like a way of explaining the issues that we have with ADHD, communication, and relationships? And I don't remember who, but somebody was like, "Sorry, I Missed This," because that's, you know, so familiar to text that. You know, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I forgot to respond. I'm sorry I missed this. I'm sorry I missed this. And so, I was like, I don't know. I wasn't sure about it.

And so, I have like a trusted circle of ADHD community members, and so, I reached out to them, I was like, "What do you think about this?" And they were like, "That's hilarious. That's such a good title." And so, such is the name of the podcast, "Sorry, I Missed This."

Laura: I love it. I think it's a great name. And when was the last time you said, "Sorry, I Missed This" to somebody because of some ADHD-related behavior that happened?

Cate: Well, I emailed the producer of this show thinking that I had missed this interview, and then it turned out that my calendar was just still in the wrong time zone because I just got back from L.A. yesterday, but I did a preemptive "Sorry, I Missed This" immediately before speaking with you, so.

Laura: And you know, I didn't say "Sorry, I Missed This," but I thought today was Friday, so.

Cate: I don't, I feel like when you not to like, immediately shoehorn it into the discussion, but, like, I feel like there's such a reality of living with ADHD and being a person who is like, "Maybe it's Thursday, maybe it's Friday. I don't know." And how that impacts the way that we navigate the world.

And so, that is honestly like what the show is about. The show is about like those weird, strange, sometimes frustrating places where our ADHD time perception and executive functioning and, you know, emotional regulation like how those can impact the way that we communicate. Like how I'm still a little bit like "Are we sure that it's Thursday?" I'm still a little bit like, "OK, if it's not Thursday and we're both wrong, then I'm going to have to send at least seven apologies."

Like my brain immediately went into a spiral of, if it is not Thursday, how do I fix everything that I just screwed up? And I think that that sort of sinking stomach "Oh no" feeling is so familiar to a lot of people with ADHD that that was one of the reasons why I really wanted to put my show together, because I was like, "Why are we like this? Why do our brains function like this and what do we do about it? How do we support ourselves?" So, yeah, so if you to have that panic moment of, "Oh my gosh, it's actually Thursday," listen to my show or not, I'm not your dad.

Laura: Yeah, well, I mean, listen, it's really resonant for me, too. It's a different kind of relationship than my relationship with my child, right? This happened to me earlier this week. I was so confident that she had this basketball tryout on Tuesday, so confident that I worked from home on Tuesday because I knew I was like, I got to pick her up. I got to get her to these basketball courts because I want to support her. We've been working on her skills.

Show up at the courts, nobody's there.

Cate: Oh no.

Laura: It's the wrong day. And my heart, it just sunk. I felt like, how am I going to communicate with my daughter that I will find a way even though I need to go into the office tomorrow to be here for you the next day, which is when the basketball tryout actually is.

Cate: Yeah.

Laura: How am I going to have that conversation with her so that I don't feel like a huge doofus and like a failure as a mom?

Cate: Yeah, exactly. Even when, like, it has nothing to do with ADHD. This is another thing that happens to me a lot where, you know, it's sometimes just people in the world who don't have ADHD, who don't have executive functioning differences, they will, you know, just wake up and they'll read their calendar wrong or they'll miss the email or they missed the text. But I feel like when you're talking about dealing with that kind of stuff with ADHD, it's so much easier. It's so much easier to be like, I am a failure. Yeah, you got the dates mixed up, but like that stuff happens. But when you have ADHD, it just feels more like your fault.

Laura: So, this is still "ADHD Aha," So, I would love to also like as we're talking about some of these topics hear about some of your own "aha" moments as you have learned about how ADHD can impact relationships, communication, intimacy, like throughout your journey, and maybe a good place to start is with something that you were talking about just a minute ago around executive function.

(6:50) Executive function impact on relationships

Did you always know that executive function could impact relationships in the way that it does?

Cate: Oh gosh, no. I mean, I had never heard the term executive functioning until I was probably 28, 29, something like that. My big ADHD "aha" moment was that I got diagnosed the day before my 30th birthday...go listen to the other episode, dear listener.

Laura: Yes. You can find that in the "ADHD Aha!" feed. Check it out.

Cate: And so, once I started learning about ADHD, then I sort of started abstracting information about executive functioning. And then when I started looking at executive functioning and what it is and how it works and the way that it sort of helps us go through our day, I had this honestly, like this really big "aha" moment that was like, "Of course it affects our sex life. Of course, it affects our relationships. Of course it affects intimacy." Like we're talking about things like working memory, time perception, emotional regulation, task initiation, task changing, task management, in what order do you do things?

And so, it's like when I talk about ADHD and sex, when I talk about executive functioning and how it relates to our world, I always say functionally, sex is no different than a sandwich. You can start to have sex. You can start to make a sandwich. You can struggle with getting off the couch to go make a sandwich. You can struggle with initiating sex. You can be emotionally dysregulated because you haven't had a sandwich in a really long time and you can be emotionally dysregulated because you really want a sandwich. Same with sex.

And so, I think when we have these conversations about ADHD, it's really, really important to remember that we're not just talking about the actual physical activity of having sex. What we are talking about is a large swath of relational and interpersonal and physical and sensual in the sense of senses, not like sexy ways of being in the world. And for people with ADHD, a lot of times those boxes are sort of misaligned or we can struggle to get them all in alignment.

So, there's that perfect moment where like your brain and your body and your environment and your emotions are all finally perfectly aligned enough for you to say, "Oh yeah, sex exists. I could have some of that." And then for other people with ADHD, it's the exact opposite, right?

A lot of people with ADHD are also hypersexual, and so they are driven and motivated by that stimulating activity that sex can be. But when you are living in an ADHD brain, that full spectrum of experiences will be affected by how your ADHD manifests in your brain and your body, and then externally in your environment and with the people you're with. Simple, right?

(10:04) "Sex is a task"

Laura: So simple. I will say, though, the last time that we talked about this — which another episode in the feed that you can go check out on ADHD and sex with Cate Osborn. When you said sex is a task, on the one hand, I was like, "Oh yeah, duh." And on the other hand, I was like, "Holy crap, I never thought about it like that." It was such an "aha" moment for me because it also kind of takes away a lot of feeling. And so, yeah, it doesn't sound sexy to call sex a task, right? It makes it seem like I might have to schedule it. Yeah, you might have to, actually.

Cate: Yeah.

Laura: Right? And to take away the guilt that might come from either having too much of it or too little of it and just be like, there's something about organization and prioritization and task initiation, to your point. It can be really powerful to take ownership of that.

Cate: Yeah, exactly. And one of the sort of catchphrases that has evolved out of my time as a content creator is it's not silly if it makes your life easier. If it is scheduling sex or if it is saying like, "Hey, it's really hard for me to focus on my pleasure if I'm worried about your pleasure. So, what we're going to do is I'm going to take Tuesdays and you're going to take Thursdays." You know, there's different ways of negotiating. There's different ways of navigating and what those look like and what those can be can be as vast and as unique as the people who are building them.

So, there's no one right way to be intimate or talk about intimacy when we're talking about ADHD. But I do think that there's a few ways to talk about it incorrectly or in a way that is perhaps going to do us a little bit of a disservice. And part of those are like you were talking about earlier, putting judgments on ourselves for, you know, "Oh my gosh, like I forget to have sex. I'm a terrible wife. I'm a terrible husband, whatever it may be." Being like, "Oh my gosh, it's so silly that I have to schedule sex with my partner, otherwise it doesn't happen. That's so embarrassing. I should be so embarrassed."

But no, of course not. It's not silly if it makes your life easier and letting go of shame and guilt and embarrassment and any of those sort of negative feelings that you feel towards the structures and systems in your life that are providing intimacy. That is one of the most powerful steps that you can take towards really taking ownership of intimacy and pleasure in a brain with ADHD.

(12:20) Task initiation impact on relationships

Laura: Do you have an example of how struggling with executive function skills has impacted an intimate relationship for you?

Cate: Oh yeah, sure. I actually have my like little list of executive functions because, see, one of the systems I use is taking notes when I'm doing important things like this. so there you go. But yeah, I've definitely had relationships that have stagnated into a lot of resentment and a lot of judgment because sex wasn't getting brought up, it wasn't getting initiated. And that was a really good example of task initiation. Like I would just was like, "Oh yeah, I could, but I don't really know how to go about it the right way. And it's not really like a great time and like, well, I could initiate intimacy with my partner or I could do the dishes."

And so, then I would start looking around the house and I would start going, "Well, there's this thing that I have to do, and this thing that I have to do, and did I remember to do that? And the other thing." And by the time that I got through sort of making that internal mental to-do list of all the things that I could be doing, instead of enjoying myself and having pleasure and being intimate with my partner, I would get completely overwhelmed and completely overstimulated by my environment and wind up not feeling sexy and not wanting to have sex at all.

Laura: And would the executive function difficulties get in the way of communicating about that challenge as well?

Cate: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things I think is really interesting about executive functioning is that if you sort of take a portrait of every person with ADHD, their specific executive functioning is going to look different. Some of us have honestly amazing memories. Some of us have amazing memories that we have created by mechanical means of I know that I actually have a really bad memory and so, I have to work really hard in order to make sure that I remember stuff. And so, we have all these systems and all of these structures.

(14:07) Communication, working memory, and consent

But when it comes to communication, communication is a much larger topic, not only because we're talking about just a whole other entity, a whole other person to whom you are communicating, but there's also, again, those external and internal factors that we're looking at. So, if I'm emotionally dysregulated, how am I communicating? Am I being short? Am I shutting down? Am I not asking for what I want? Because now I'm starting to feel bad and guilty and like an inconvenience. And if I ask for this thing that I want, they're just going to get mad at me again because I forgot to take out the trash? Right?

There's also working memory, is another thing that comes up a lot when we talk about executive function, because working memory is really interesting because working memory affects things like communication but can also affect things like consent and how we talk about consent, how we navigate consent, how we negotiate consent.

And so, I think it's really important when we are learning about sexuality through the lens of ADHD. One of the healthiest things that we can do for ourselves, to keep ourselves safe, to keep ourselves protected is to make sure that we really have an understanding of how our working memory works, how our time perception works, how our emotional regulation works, and how those three things work together inside of us when one of them is perhaps a little askew. And I'm going to give you a very specific example. So, let's say and dear listener is going to get a little bit spicy, OK.

Laura: We're ready for some spicy.

Cate: Get ready. I'm going to say the word spanking. OK. We're cool. So, let's say, for example, I don't know, you're a person and you're like, "Hey, you know what? I would love a good spanking this evening" or whatever it may be. A backrub, whatever, whatever floats your canoe. And then the next day you wake up and you're like, "Wow, I sure have a lot of bruises" or, you know, like, "Wow, my back sure is sore" or whatever it may be. And you talk to your partner and you, and they say, "Yeah, you know, I had a really good time. But I was really surprised that you went for half an hour" and in your mind, you had gone for like ten minutes.

And another one that is just really easy and much simpler to explain, which is just how long has it been since we've had sex? You know, think about the last time you went out to dinner with a friend, right? And you're like, it feels like it was just the other day that I saw them or whatever. And then you look at the calendar and you're like, Actually, it's been three weeks or three months or three years or whatever it may be.

(16:31) Time perception, impulsiveness, and dating

ADHD time perception is such a beast when it comes to things like intimacy and sexuality, not only because we are looking at the sort of how we perceive time passing, but also how long we think things are going to take. And because many people with ADHD struggle with those perceptions of time, it can really, really impact our ability to navigate intimacy and sexuality safely, but also just in a way that gives us enough connection to our partner.

Laura: When we first started talking about "Sorry, I Missed This" at Understood, we were like, "It's a show about sex and ADHD." And then we dug in, and you dug in, I should say, I get all the credit to you and it's...

Cate: I mean, well, you were there.

Laura: I mean, I was like, in the room, maybe. No, but the whole idea is that, like, it's not just about sex. Sex is just one piece of the puzzle. It's all about communication. That's really what you were saying. And that is something that can be really hard for people with ADHD. You know, we've talked a lot about initiating sex or like making room for sex in your life and like the things that go around that. I wonder if we can also talk about impulsivity a little bit and impulse control...

Cate: That's a really good one.

Laura: A little bit more and then the communication strategies around that. Do you have any examples that you can share?

Cate: Yeah. So, when we look at impulsivity and how impulsivity can impact people with ADHD, especially in terms of sex and intimacy, this is the part where I have to bring out some really not fun statistics. A lot of young women with ADHD experience higher rates of sexual assaults. They also experience higher rates of STIs. They can experience higher rates of unplanned pregnancies, that kind of thing.

And so, when you look at those statistics and then the statistics out of that, how many younger women with ADHD are also experiencing higher rates of self-harm, suicidal ideation, suicidal attempts, things like that? You start to realize that that impulsivity, as much as it's often painted as the sort of like quirky, fun lolol or ADHD thing...

Laura: Let's ride a roller coaster. Yeah.

Cate: Yeah. "Oh my God. I paid the cab driver in buttons." But, like, those things can really, really affect our mental well-being, our physical well-being, our safety. And so, impulsivity, when it comes to sex and intimacy, I mean, it can be as simple as just like "I'm going to go out tonight." And so, you go out to the bar and the first person you know who is interested, you go back to theirs. But like, you don't know that person that might be an unsafe person.

Same with dating apps. There's a lot of like hookup culture that happens. Like, I am not here to tell you that you should not partake in hookup culture if that is your thing. If you are a person who is into that, that's amazing. But what I implore you to do is please be safe about it. Please take mitigating strategies to make sure that you are preventing a harm to yourself, harm to others, that kind of thing.

But yeah, impulsivity is a interesting one because not only do you have that sort of personal harm aspect, you also have another phenomenon that happens a great deal is saying yes immediately when maybe you needed to take a couple of days or minutes to think about something, right? So, if somebody approaches you and says, "I want to do this crazy, weird sex thing," and you're like, "Yeah, sure, sounds great." And then you find yourself in the middle of it and you're like, "Actually, I'm not enjoying this at all. Why did I say yes? I should have said no or I should have talked about this more" or whatever.

And is that impulsivity of the immediate yes, the immediate excitement, the immediate dopamine hit of, "Oh we're going to try something new and exciting. Cool." But actually taking a moment to step back and say, you know, what is this going to look like? What is this going to entail? How am I going to be affected? How are you going to be, infected...affected? What are we going to do together? What is that going to look like? What does consent look like in this scenario? All of those things are really important to keep in mind. If you are a person who tends to impulsively jump into things.

(20:46) "It's not your fault"

Laura: And I imagine especially with the good work that you do and it's a difficult balance of making sure that it doesn't feel like we're like we're blaming people for the things that they're struggling with. I know you never do that, but like, what you're doing is you're providing advice and solutions, right? How do you navigate that?

Cate: I mean, it's not your fault. You know, it's not your fault if you are in a situation in which your brain and the way that your brain responds to input and stimulus is to immediately say yes, that can be disabling, the same way that executive functioning differences can be disabling the same way that time perception differences can be disabling. It's important to remember that it is not your fault if you struggle with these things because it is your brain functioning the way that your brain is built to function.

And so, what that means is that we have to know ourselves and we have to be honest with ourselves and say, what are the places in my life that I struggle? What do I need? What systems, supports do I need in order to build structures around those to succeed? You know, those kind of conversations? I've had so many people come to me doing this work and tell me just heartbreaking stories of, you know, sexual assaults or things like that. And there's a lot of that "It was my fault because I impulsively said yes or went back to this person's house." I was like "No, no, no, no, no. That was violence done to you. That was violence done against you. That is not your fault." That is not what we are talking about.

What we are talking about is looking at something like impulse control and saying, how do we prevent that from happening? How do we keep ourselves safe? How do we ensure that we are keeping other people safe? But no, there is never any blame or any like pointing towards somebody with ADHD and saying "Well, you should have done this differently."

Laura: And that's, I mean, sometimes people wonder, you know, why is it so important to get evaluated for ADHD? It's like, I'm a little ADHD, this and that. I mean, you can have a lot of self-awareness and self-knowledge without a diagnosis, of course. But I've been heartened lately to see the stats of how, you know, ADHD diagnoses in women have been going up. It's hard to know yourself if you don't understand what's going on with you, right?

Cate: Exactly. Yeah.

Laura: And so, it's like you can't have you set those boundaries if you don't understand how your brain works. And maybe you can do that without an evaluation or diagnosis. I'm not trying to push people one way or the other, but it is, it's just a sign that people are gaining more awareness.

(23:19) How to approach consent as a person with ADHD

Let's talk more about consent. It's not a topic that we've covered on "ADHD Aha!" It such an important one. How does consent maybe look different or needs to be approached differently as a person with ADHD?

Cate: So, the first thing that I want to say is that for anybody who's raising an eyebrow in their cars, they listen to this. This is not a conversation about how people with ADHD get a pass for like a different secret kind of consent. Consent is consent. The yes is deeply important. But one of the things that we need to take into consideration when we are talking about consent are once again things that are tied directly into executive functioning. For instance, just because I wanted a sandwich yesterday does not mean that I feel like a sandwich today or six months ago I told you that I really liked this type of sandwich, but now I like this other type of sandwich.

So, there's a lot of ways in which things like time perception and working memory, actually, what, what did you like on your sandwich? You like mustard, right? Oh no. You didn't like mustard? Oh no. Well, I made the sandwich with mustard for you. So, that's what's on the table right now is this mustardy sandwich, right? So, working memory, time perception, again, that impulsivity of "Yeah, I could go for sandwich. Actually, you know what? I just remembered, I just ate. So, I'm not feeling like a sandwich right now."

All of those are different ways in which consent can be impacted. And actually, to shill so hard for my own show right now. I'm super excited because on "Sorry, I Missed This," I had the incredible opportunity to talk to Dr. Betty Martin, who is the originator of the Wheel of Consent, which is a model that is based on interrogating and talking through what one wants and what one needs very specifically, very directly, and very intimately before saying yes. And so, we had an amazing conversation and I'm super excited, dear listener, for you to check that out.

Laura: Me too.

Cate: She was like my pie in the sky. I was like, There's no way. She's so famous. She's so cool. There's no way I get her on the show. And then she's like, "Yeah, sure, OK." And like, it was amazing. Like, we had such a good conversation.

Laura: Cate That was like you for me, by the way, back in the day. You think I'm joking?

Cate: Well, well, I'll put that in my pocket and save it for a sad day. Oh God. OK. What was I talking about? Consent. So, again, like we've talked about before, something that I think has really come to the forefront when we have conversations about sex and intimacy and ADHD is the fact that a lot of it is being able to sit in the stillness of what do I want, what do I need, what am I actually in the headspace for? And navigating consent from that place, but stillness, and what do I need? What do I want? That can be really scary.

That can be really uncomfortable, that can be really vulnerable. That can be... and that's not just for people with ADHD. That's just across the board. We live in a society where we are told that taking is bad, that, you know, asking directly can often be interpreted as very rude. And so, when you couple that with, say, ADHD impulse control, where you're told over and over again like, no, no, no, no, no, stop, stop interrupting, stop, stop speaking out of turn, it's really easy to internalize that asking for something or taking something is wrong.

And that's just fundamentally not the case. And so, a lot of the conversations about consent I like to have with people with ADHD are really foundationally about, again, that really strong communication, but not only communication with, you know, the other person, but also communicating internally with yourself, what do I want? What do I actually need right now? Do I actually need to have sex or do I want to be held? Do I want to be touched? Do I actually want a back rub? Do I actually want a sandwich? Whatever it may be.

But really honing in on those wants, those needs, and those desires and then moving forward and looking at the other person and saying, "This is what I want, this is what I need. How do we form a model of consent around this? What are we willing to do? What are we wanting to do and how can we mutually support each other in this seeking of whatever it is that you need?"

(27:33) Cate's own journey with ADHD and sexuality

Laura: As you've learned about this, like how consent can be a little bit trickier to navigate when you are neurodivergent, when you have ADHD, as you've gained that knowledge, what has the impact been on your relationships?

Cate: Oh man. So, one of the really interesting things about my journey with ADHD and intimacy and sexuality is realizing that I am far more on the asexual spectrum than I think I ever really understood. For a really long time, I felt broken. It's like I've never been able to just like look at a hot person and be like, "Oh I would like to have sex with them. I'm sexually aroused by them."

And so, for me, one of the most powerful things that came out of this sort of journey was being able to separate sexual desire and romantic desire. And in that interrogating of what I want, do I actually have sexual desire right now, or is what I'm feeling romantic is what I'm feeling, affection or fondness or whatever it may be? And I started realizing that a lot of times I was consenting to acts that I actually was uncomfortable with or didn't particularly like.

And that ties in to like, sensory issues, too, right? Which people with ADHD absolutely have. I hate kissing. I do not like it. I really don't. It makes me, like, weirdly uncomfortable. And there's, it's just there's something about it. And it's weird, right? It can be strange to, like, look at your husband of ten years and be like, "OK, so I've been doing some interrogating with myself, and it turned out that actually, maybe I don't want to kiss you that much."

And it can be really easy for the other person to be like, "I'm sorry, what?" And to take that personally or to make it into some sort of commentary on, you know, their skill as a lover or their skill as a partner. And it's like, "No, no, no, this isn't about you at all. This is about me saying I'm uncomfortable when things touch my mouth."

So, to sort of tie back into this conversation about consent, being able to really specifically define things like that, like are you cool with, I don't know, people touching your elbows? Are you cool with people touching your forearms? Are you cool with people touching your wrists?

People might have different answers, but if I look at you and I say, "Hey, can I touch your arm?" And you say "Yes," and then it turns out that actually you hate having your wrist touch, but you're cool with your forearm, that can mean a negative experience for you that could have been very easily solved by that kind of like, "Yeah, absolutely. You can touch my arm, but please don't touch my wrist because it just makes me feel confined and I don't like it."

(30:09) How rejection sensitivity complicates consent

Laura: You mentioned sensory issues. I also wonder where does rejection sensitivity come into play?

Cate: Laura, how long do you have?

Laura: We actually are running low on time, but let's just do it.

Cate: OK. OK. So, rejection sensitivity is like an entirely different realm that we have to learn how to navigate when we're talking about ADHD and sex and intimacy and communication. Because for many people with ADHD, that rejection sensitivity of, "Oh my gosh, it feels so bad to be rejected," or that fear of rejection or that fear of "Oh no, of what if they don't like me? Or what if they think I'm too much?" Or whatever the crappy little things that your brain says to you late at night.

Laura: What if they think I'm not adventurous enough? Or what if they think I'm boring?

Cate: Yeah. Or what if they think I'm a prude? Or what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, right? On and on for all eternity. A lot of times when working with ADHD clients, one of the things that I see is that rejection sensitivity is the first thing that we have to deal with. The first thing that we have to navigate because so many people, men, women, nonbinary pals, so many people with ADHD have said yes when they mean no because of that rejection sensitivity component.

So many people with ADHD have consented to things that they didn't actually think was good for them or they didn't actually enjoy because of that rejection sensitivity. And so, part of it is just having to be aware that it's something that you deal with. So many newly diagnosed folks with ADHD, you will go, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know other people felt this way. Oh my gosh. I thought I was the only person. I thought I was bad. I thought I was a failure. I thought there was something wrong with me." And it's like, "No, baby. That's the rejection sensitivity."

And so, like, once you get over that sort of first hill of rejection sensitivity, then I feel like you start looking at like the broad plains and masses of the actual conversation surrounding intimacy and sex and communication. I mean, I've been, I'll just say it in black and white like I have been sexually assaulted because of my struggles with rejection sensitivity. I put myself in unsafe situations. I kept saying yes because I didn't want to have that uncomfortable moment of saying, "No, thank you. This is done now. We're done now. I'm going to leave."

And so, I have been assaulted. And it was because of that fear that I held. And again, I'm not blaming myself, right? I'm not saying that, "Oh, it's my fault that this happened to me." Like, no, that person was a terrible person and they should have never done that. But had I been aware of my rejection sensitivity and the way that I truly feared saying no or like what you were saying, thinking that I wasn't adventurous or whatever it was, I could have protected myself and I could have said, "Hey, you deal with rejection sensitivity. So, are you not saying no because you want to avoid an uncomfortable conversation or are you not saying no because you actually want this?"

Laura: Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, how many people have experienced this and are not saying it because they think that they're alone?

Cate: Yeah. Yeah. And you're not.

Laura: Thank you for being here today with me again. When's the next time? When are you going to come back?

Cate: I don't know. Whatever you want, Laura. I'm down to clown.

Laura: Yeah. This is fun. This is fun. Hey, everybody, the show is "Sorry, I Missed This." It's really, really good. Go check it out. We'll put a link in the show notes. It's with Cate Osborn. What's not to love? So.

(33:32) Cate's email

Cate: That's the nicest review anyone's ever given me of my podcast. I got an email the other day, and this is like, not for the podcast, but I got an email the other day and I wanted to read it to you because I feel like you would appreciate it deeply.

Laura: It might be for the podcast. We'll see.

Cate: So, I got this beautiful email from a lady who is asking me to do a thing. Doesn't matter. But she said that she's like, "Your impact on my life. You once spoke on the 'ADHD Aha!' podcast about how an orgasm isn't the gold standard and that intimacy can be beautiful without it being the ultimate goal. It changed everything for me and my husband. It helped me let go of so much shame.

This shift in perspective has made room for so many more beautiful moments between us. And then she's like, and I thought it was really funny that you joked about getting the podcast on Understood and then you did. But thanks for facilitating that because like, that was you. Like you let us have that conversation. And so, that person you changed, you touched a life, Laura. And I think that's great.

Laura: You did. OK, Thank you.

Cate: We did.

Laura: And we're keeping that, by the way. I think that that's fantastic. And I bet you have, you know, hundreds of other emails, notes...

Cate: I get emails.

Laura: DMs about that. You're changing lives all over the place, Cate Osborn, we're so glad to have you as a part of our network. So, thank you again.

Cate: Thank you so much, Laura, for having me. I go by Catieosaurus on all corners of the Internet. You can find me talking about ADHD and sex and intimacy on "Sorry, I Missed This." I've got a book coming out next year called "You're Not an F-Up." You can also find me at Catieosaurus.com. I have a new column about neurodiversity and disability and Playboy magazine that you can check out which is pretty crazy. And I also do a lot of, like, Dungeons Dragons stuff. So, if you want to check out anything that I do, Catieosaurus on all social media platforms or send me an email cate, C-A-T-E, @catieosaurus.com.

Laura: As always, if you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. Be sure to check out the show notes for this episode. We have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine!

Jessamine: Hi everyone.

Laura: And Margie DeSantis.

Margie: Hey, hey.

Laura: Video was produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ash Beecher is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. Creative and production leadership from Scott Cocchiere and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.