Fear of rejection with ADHD runs deeps (Matthew’s story)

Matthew Raghunauth always felt like he was a little lazy and sluggish — that’s just how he was. Then the time came to return to office after the pandemic, and he really started struggling at work. He questioned why he would put things off so much. He was scared to mess up, and afraid that his colleagues would think he’s a bad employee. 

Matthew is an artist and UX designer who was diagnosed with ADHD about a year and a half ago. Join Laura and Matthew as they talk about this ADHD fear of being “found out,” and a grown-up view of growing up.

Want to share your “aha” moment? We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at ADHDAha@understood.org.

Related resources

• ADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD)

• Imposter syndrome at work: How I stopped feeling like a fake

• Not lazy, but exhausted from analysis paralysis (Emily’s story)

Timestamps

(01:25) Why did Matthew seek out an ADHD evaluation?

(05:59) ADHD and prioritization overload

(07:23) Anxiety and fixations while growing up

(10:10) Putting off things out of fear of failing and being rejected

(12:34) ADHD and catastrophizing

(15:32) Are we really “too sensitive”?

(16:38) When “growing up” means taking care of yourself

(21:20) The added pressure of being first generation American

Episode transcript

Matthew: I said to myself, It's time to grow up. It's time to look at these things that you're experiencing and stop ignoring them. It's time to actually recognize them. Put in a little work to research them. Seek out what you can do for help. It was time to recognize that there's nobody else who's going to come in and swoop in and say, "You have this, you need to do this." Nobody's going to do that for you anymore. And the longer you wait for somebody to do that, the deeper down in whatever hole you're digging for yourself, you're going to get in.

Laura: This is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I head up our editorial team here at Understood.org, and as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host.

I am here today with Matthew Raghunauth. Matthew is an artist and a UX designer — UX stands for user Experience. So, Matthew, I'm so excited that you're here today. Thank you for being here. And am I correct that the art surrounding you is your art?

Matthew: Yep, you're correct. You're correct. I've run out of space on my walls, so things are starting to overlap right now. But yeah, everything that I've painted is hanging around me. And thanks so much for having me on. I'm happy to be here.

(01:25) Why did Matthew seek out an ADHD evaluation?

Laura: So, Matthew, let's dive into it. You were diagnosed with ADHD about a year and a half ago. My question to start things off is what was going on? Why did you seek out an ADHD evaluation?

Matthew: So, I sought out an ADHD evaluation because I noticed a lot of the symptoms that I think a lot of people described for ADHD are things that I always kind of saw in myself, but I never really thought to think of them as symptoms. I just thought of them as, this is kind of just how I am. I'm a little bit sluggish, I'm a little distracted, I'm a little lazy. And that's not anything of any medical concern. It's not that serious.

But what I did find is that having to balance a professional career with my art career and having to do so while having to commute, especially in and around and coming out of the pandemic, it got a little bit trickier to juggle. And I found that these things that are characteristics that I thought I just always had that weren't really symptoms were kind of lagging me down and not allowing me to actually fulfill the tasks that I needed to do to excel in any one of these areas.

Laura: The words that you use are so interesting to me, like sluggish and lazy. These are adjectives I was listening then for adjectives people use to describe symptoms in themselves. These are words that have such a negative connotation when you can flip it the other way and be like, "I'm feeling sluggish. No, I'm tired, I'm exhausted." That maybe has a little bit of a different feel, right?

Matthew: For sure.

Laura: You went back to the office after the pandemic had subsided. Did anything happen as a result of that? Was there an external factor that like related to your performance at work that made you say, "I really got to check this out."

Matthew: Well, there was a major shift in my routine. I had almost gotten spoiled to a degree for getting to work from home for almost 2 or 3 years. And what I saw is that that actually allowed me to perform a lot of the things that I would like to do in a day. That at the end of the day, when I can look at my checklist and say, I did this, this, this and this. And it was also a full day of work. That is what left me feeling fulfilled in the day.

But having to go back into the office, it shifted things around where, you know, you have to go to bed a little bit earlier and you have to wake up a little bit earlier, You have to get ready and then you have to really organize your meals. And then you also need to account for a solid, I don't know, hour and a half, two hours just for actual commuting. So, it was actually like having a large chunk of your day taken out.

And so, what I actually found as a result of that is with what time I did have in the day, I was not utilizing at all because in my head I would come home and I would say, I need to do the laundry. And then if I do the laundry, I should clean up my room. But if I clean in my room, then shouldn't I make my bed in? I think I need to put those away too. And then while I do all that, I need to charge my phone. But, did I ever send that last email?

And what I found is any little item that I felt I needed to do was getting stuck in the cycle of how can I prioritize this? Because my time now is so limited. I was so lost when it came to organizing and prioritizing my tasks. And what I ended up actually doing was there's kind of like option overload where I ended up just doing nothing. I would shut down because I would say, I don't know what order to do these things and I'm now overwhelmed. I'm mentally exhausted now. So, I would end up doing nothing.

Laura: What do you think that looked like at the office?

Matthew: Well, at the office it had me very distracted because it was always kind of like playing a game of catch-up from the following day. It was the same sort of routine at work as well. I think this mindset would definitely follow into work where if I were given three simple tasks at work — you have to send this email, you have to make this mark up and you have to test this proof design — I'd say, "Well, which one would be best to do first if this person need this email first?"

Or "Should I send out this proof first?" And going around and around in circles trying to decide which item would be best to do first, second and last, that I would spend more time doing that than it would take to actually complete the total of all of them.

(05:59) ADHD and prioritization overload

Laura: Oh my gosh. I totally relate to that. I mean, I'm speaking for myself here. You tell me if this resonates with you. Like I, when that happens to me, I feel like a failure. I feel like I'm not good at my job, even though that's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about is prioritization, not like your actual functional skills at work, right?

Matthew: Definitely. I would feel like a failure. I would feel anxious and kind of, I would feel incompetent. Like I'm not able to do these things. I was looking at it as, am I actually not able to complete these tasks? Is this my mind's way of telling me like, maybe if you can beat around the bush enough, nobody will know.

Laura: What do you mean by that? Beat around the bush.

Matthew: If I can put off these tasks as much as I can, then I won't have to do them and show everybody how bad I'm doing them. I think that's kind of another secondary fear that kind of came in there as a result of not actually prioritizing and comparing items that I knew I was capable of doing.

Laura: It's interesting because I'm sure that the work would have been really good.

Matthew: The work would have been perfectly fine.

Laura: But you're still feeling like, "Oh, people are going to judge me for this not being good work just because, like these feelings of anxiety around just getting it done are kind of overloading everything."

Matthew: Totally. Totally.

(07:23) Anxiety and fixations while growing up

Laura: Tell me about growing up. Do you have any memories of struggling with things that now in hindsight you realize, "Oh yeah, that was the ADHD."

Matthew: I can definitely remember becoming super fixated on things that were so not of any concern. There would be days where I would come home from school and I know the items that I need to complete for homework, but it is so much more important that I move my bed into the corner of the window and organize my bookshelf. And moving around these items in my room is something that made me feel like now this can become the space that I want to do my work in.

It's almost like I would fixate on all the things that I could do around a certain item to better prepare myself to complete a certain task. So, I need to finish a report on a chapter of this book, I'm going to run a bath and light some candles and maybe find the perfect music playlist to put on so that I can read that chapter and have the best experience at that. And all of those steps would take me the entire day and it would be the middle of the night and I'm stuck in the middle of the chapter.

Laura: Yes, exactly. I have memories, Matthew, of in college, I had an essay to write and like I was like, you know what? I'm going to write it by hand before I, you know, before I type it up. But I need a better pen. I need a pen that really feels like juicy and good and like the ideas will spring from there. And then it would be 10 p.m. and I'm like, I didn't even find the good pen yet.

Matthew: Exactly.

Laura: Is it procrastination? Like, what is that?

Matthew: I'm not sure what it is. I think what I saw it as at the time was procrastination. It was me trying to push off this thing in a way that made me want to do that thing. Like I remember, I do remember a specific case. I think I was in fifth grade, I had a book report on some period of Egypt and I took the time to make some tea and stain the pages of my printer paper to make it look like papyrus. And I sewed together the edges of the pages to make it look like a frayed scroll.

And I remember putting in all this work and I was like, "Dad, Dad, look at this. Doesn't this looks so cool? Like, it actually looks like an artifact." And he was like, "Yeah, isn't this a book report?" I was like, "Well, well, don't. I mean, yeah, but don't worry about that. Look at this."

Laura: First of all, that sounds awesome. Do you still have that?

Matthew: It could be in my parents' basement, probably.

(10:10) Putting off things out of fear of failing and being rejected

Laura: And just really digging in here because I'm also just thinking about myself because I do similar things. I'm not an artist by any stretch of the imagination, but I'll do other things to prep and I'm putting that in quotes. It's really just me putting something off. What's the fear that's underneath that?

Matthew: For me, I think the fear is of doing something wrong or for doing something bad, because to deliver something bad and to deliver something that's wrong, it puts visibility onto things that are wrong and bad about you. If you gave me an assignment and I completed this, and when I gave it back to you, you said, "Matthew, this is awful, but I know this is awful because you're awful." Obviously Matthew's awful, so he would produce an awful thing.

I'm afraid to give you an opportunity to see what is wrong with me. And maybe there's a little bit of imposter syndrome sewn in there as well, which is something that specifically in the UX world in tech, is something that is very heavily talked about. This level of all these people around me know what they're doing and they're so smart. I don't know what I'm doing here. They don't know why I'm here and I'm really afraid of being found out, so.

Laura: Yeah, you just said a lot of really profound things in what you just unpacked there. Yeah, imposter syndrome, really common for people with ADHD. And also, apparently in the UX world, as I'm learning from you. Am I hearing some rejection sensitivity as well?

Matthew: I think 100%. And I think that comes from kind of like a childlike mindset of "This is wrong. This is bad. Go to your room until you are better." But something that's a little bit harder to come around to is especially in the moment of needing to complete a task is, if I deliver something that kind of sucks. The worst thing that my manager's going to do is say, "Hey, can you maybe do this again?" Or, "Hey, your co-worker is really good at this. Do you want them to help you?"

As an adult, and in most spaces now, people are a lot more eager to actually help you and not shame you. But that kind of mentality of "If I do something wrong, they're going to shame me." That's a very childlike mindset and breaking that, that's the hardest part.

(12:34) ADHD and catastrophizing

Laura: I'm totally with you. It is so hard. And this is something that I do as well. I think I'm hearing this from you. Like I will catastrophize in my mind. Yeah, Matthew just like gave a giant nod in front of his beautiful artwork. I don't like to think of myself as a sensitive person, but if something that I'm proud of is criticized, all of a sudden I am bad at my job. I shouldn't even be in this job. Who do I think I am? Do you relate to that?

Matthew: Every day. Yeah. Catastrophizing is something that I am incredibly good at.

Laura: We all have to have skills, Matthew. You know?

Matthew: Exactly. Exactly. I'm definitely trying to knock that down a little bit. I can remember another instance where I think ADHD kind of affected this relationship that I was in and the situation that I was in. And this was before diagnosis as well. I was in a relationship and it was very new and we decided to go on a vacation just a couple of weeks in.

I was so excited that this person wanted to go on vacation with me that I thought, I need to do everything perfect on this trip. I need to be perfect. I need to bring all the perfect outfits and I need to make all the perfect jokes. And I need to be so fun and energetic all the time. And this will be a great trip and it'll be a great start to our relationship. That's not at all how it went. But what ended up happening was this focus of perfect, perfect, perfect kind of made me shut down on this vacation.

I was catastrophizing the entire thing saying that if I'm not perfect on this vacation, then this person is going to hate me and then we're not going to be in a relationship. And then that is going to mean that I'm bad and I'm wrong. And this person didn't like me because I'm bad and I'm wrong.

And I had shut down during this entire trip where any question that was asked to me, I was fidgety and darting around. I, couldn't sleep. I was indecisive and just anxious the entire time. And that was one of the first times that I realized I was like, I really let this mindset kind of really overtake this whole experience that I was having. I mean, catastrophizing is something that you do after a very bad hangover, or at least I do.

Laura: Oh, I do the same. I mean, listen, I haven't been hung over in a long time just because I can't handle anything anymore. But yeah.

Matthew: But it's the same kind of thing where, you know, you wake up the next morning, you're like, "I said all these things. I think I posted that picture. That means that they're going to think I'm a weirdo and I'm not going to be invited anymore. Oh no, like what? It's like 4 p.m. on a Sunday. I'm such a waste. Like, I didn't do anything. My parents didn't come to this country for me to become this." This same kind of catastrophizing. It's just a snowball effect.

(15:32) Are we really "too sensitive"?

Laura: I share these characteristics with you. They are really painful. And I think that societally, people often boil those things down to "Oh, you're just being sensitive."

Matthew: Yeah. Like all millennials and Gen Z kids have all been described as as being a little bit too sensitive and needing too much. And what I think is really funny is I don't think our generation, younger generations, are any more sensitive than anyone before. I think we kind of just have so much more access to the tools that can help us that we're being a little bit more vocal about them and giving them a little bit more visibility.

Like, OK, Grandpa, you didn't need any ADHD treatment. But also you're a very unhappy person and you're saying that with your chest because you're proud to not be sensitive. But what does that actually mean?

Laura: By the way, I love when guests are like "our generation," as if, like, I'm as young as you are. I'm always very flattered.

(16:38) When "growing up" means taking care of yourself

Going back to your diagnosis story, when we did our pre-interview a few weeks ago, I think you'd said that around this time when you were like 27, right? When you got diagnosed? You said, "It's time to grow up." That was the phrase that you used. You felt like it was time to grow up.

Matthew: Yeah. I said to myself, "It's time to grow up" in the sense that it's time to look at these things that you're experiencing and stop ignoring them. It's time to actually recognize them, put in a little work to research them, seek out what you can do for help. It's time to take the experiences that you have in the life that you have a little bit more seriously. And you're a little bit too old now to think that "Oh things are going to change. Things are going to be OK. You can keep ignoring this."

No. It was time to recognize that there's nobody else who's going to come in and swoop in and say, "Oh you have this, you need to do this." Nobody's going to do that for you anymore. And the longer you wait for somebody to do that, the deeper down in whatever hole you're digging for yourself, you're going to get in.

Laura: I love that framing so much because typically when you hear something like "It's time to grow up," like we're talking about things like, "Quit going out at night. Quit having so much fun or quit like being so goofy" and this and that. But what you're talking about is truly the most adult thing that I think a person can do, which is do something to take care of themselves and to take care of their mental health, to do something that maybe they were afraid of in the past.

Matthew: 100%. It's time to grow up and it's time to take care of yourself in the same way that making your first phone call to schedule your first dentist appointment is scary, but your parents aren't going to do that for you forever. It's time to ask questions at the doctor that you actually have been thinking and not just complain to your friends about "Ugh, you know, I had a terrible day at work and I keep getting distracted. Oh well, that's fine." And if you want it to not be fine anymore, there are things that you can do to fix that.

Laura: What did you ask your doctor?

Matthew: Well, I said to them, I said that "I feel like I am tired and fatigued all the time, despite how much rest, quote unquote rest that I'm getting. I'm confused as to why, with the amount of rest that I'm giving myself, why am I so slow to start? And why do I get anxiety when I have to start and initiate tasks? Why does it take me so long to get into the motions of starting something and not keep thinking about how to start it first?"

Laura: What was their response, the doctor's response when you ask these questions? Because the way that you just framed it to me was like very clear-cut, ADHD symptoms. So, I'm wondering if they just right away were like, "Yeah, you have ADHD."

Matthew: It was, it was an immediate diagnosis. It was very clear and it was what I expected as well, because I had also done my own research on the side. I was talking about certain treatments. And I think what took me so long to seek out a diagnosis was something that I mentioned earlier about being afraid to admit that there's something wrong with you. I think having to admit that there's this deficit that you have, there's something that's missing in you. There's something that makes you a little bit less than the people around you.

And I think that was something that I was really afraid of. And I think that was the growing up part saying to myself, "Matthew, your livelihood and your functionality and your productivity and your career is worth way more than this little ego that you have. If it takes you saying on a piece of paper, 'I have this thing to get help and actually accomplish the tasks that will lead to goals that you want,' grow up. Grow up and do that."

Laura: I'm so glad that you're saying this in this way, too, because like people complaining about how, "Oh, you're so sensitive and you want help for everything," right? What you're describing right now, Matthew, was like, you didn't want to seek that out. It was like the mature thing to do, to seek it out.

Like you were hesitating because of what it would mean. Is it a weakness? It wasn't like you were just looking for a catch-all thing that would save you from your...no. You did something really hard to get the support that you needed. It wasn't a cop-out, is what I'm saying. It was actually like an opt-in.

Matthew: It was definitely an opt-in. I mean, I think if anything, copping out was staying in the dark a little bit longer, chalking it all up to, "Oh you know, I'm just a lazy person."

Laura: Hell yeah, Matthew. You just gave me chills. Yeah.

(21:20) The added pressure of being first generation American

Matthew: It's a complacency. And I think another thing that might be specific to my case and it's not even that specific is I think there is a level of extra pressure that is put onto a lot of first-generation and minority kids in this country. There is pressure to perform at such a high level, especially because of all of the privileges that you have been afforded that your parents and generations before you were not afforded.

It's kind of like saying it's speaking from the parents' perspective, "I'm giving you all of this privilege and all of these resources and you still need more help. Really?"

Laura: Yeah. It's a lot of pressure.

Matthew: It creates a pressure and it creates a level of shame of wanting to ask for help. And so, I think a lot of us, and I can definitely admit that, is that I navigated my younger life doing things that I wasn't fully comfortable or fully, you know, the best at, because I was much more afraid of asking for help because asking for help would mean that. I need so much more than I've already been given, and it makes me feel guilty.

But again, growing up is saying "Do you want to hang on to this, you know, this pride and this guilt, or do you want to do the thing that you want to do better?"

Laura: Matthew, thank you so much for being here today. It has been a pleasure. I am so grateful for your candor, your vulnerability. I know it's not easy. So, thank you so much.

Matthew: No, of course. I feel like I understand my whole thing a little bit better. I always find that articulating something forces you to kind of slow down and think about something. So, thank you so much.

Laura: Thanks for listening. As always, if you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. Be sure to check out the show notes for this episode. We have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Jessamine, are you there?

Jessamine: Hi everyone. I'm still here.

Laura: And Margie DeSantis.

Margie: Hey. Hey.

Laura: Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ilana Millner is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. Creative and production leadership from Scott Cocchiere and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.