Sorry, I Missed This: Setting boundaries in relationships with ADHD

Boundaries are limits based on our values — and a key part of good relationships. ADHD can come with low self-esteem and anxiety, which can get in the way of respecting your own boundaries in relationships. 

ADHD educator and marriage counselor Melissa Orlov explains what boundaries are and how ADHD comes into play. Plus, she offers tips on how to set and maintain healthy boundaries in relationships.

Related resources

• ADHD in marriage: How it changed a relationship (Breon and Dan’s story)

• ADHD and trouble with personal boundaries in kids

• Melissa’s website, adhdmarriage.com

Timestamps

(04:28) What is a boundary?

(10:20) How do we figure out what our boundaries are?

(14:51) People pleasing

(20:45) How do we work on creating and evolving boundaries with a partner?

(22:16) Top three things to know, and some activities to get started

(24:42) Cate’s Comment Corner

Episode transcript

Cate: Hi everybody. I'm Cate Osborn. You might know me as Catieosaurus, and welcome to "Sorry, I Missed This," the show where we talk about talking and all things ADHD, intimacy, relationships, and communication. 

Today I'm asking a very simple question: What is a boundary and how do we uphold them with ADHD? To answer that question, I have brought on a very special guest for you. She is a marriage counselor. She trains therapists and counselors to deal with couples with ADHD. Her name is Melissa Orlov and I'm so excited to welcome her to the show. 

As much as I hate to admit it, and as embarrassing as it might be, I have always been a person who struggled with boundaries. Now, part of it was because growing up, I definitely lived in one of those households where, you know, you weren't necessarily allowed to leave the room if you were upset and you had to sit at the dinner table until you were excused. And so, I learned early on that my boundaries weren't as important as the comfort of the people around me. 

And that's the lesson that I carried into adulthood. And as I learned more about my ADHD, as I learned more about my brain, I started learning more about the ADHD community and how often our struggles with boundaries and our struggles with knowing ourselves and our struggles with inconveniencing the people around us change us. Change the way that we think about boundaries. Change the way that we think about ourselves. 

And boundaries can be really hard because boundaries are vulnerable. Boundaries are looking at the world and saying, "This is how I need to be treated. This is how I want to be treated. And I'm asking you vulnerably and authentically and honestly, to meet me here in the middle and respect these boundaries." And unfortunately, sometimes that makes other people uncomfortable. 

So, boundaries are tough. And as I was sort of putting this episode together, I had a lot of different thoughts on boundaries. How do we establish boundaries without seeming mean or like we're a bad person, or that we're demanding that others kowtow to our ridiculous demands? And then I realized that boundaries are a gift. Boundaries are a way of allowing people into our world safely and in a way where they can meet us and they can support us. 

And the more I started thinking about boundaries like that, the more I realized how many regrets I have around boundaries and how many times in my life I wish that I had advocated for myself and stuck to my own boundaries. 

And so, if you are a person who finds that you are struggling with boundaries, or you want to learn to build better boundaries, I'm so excited to welcome you to this conversation with Melissa Orlov. She is an incredible ADHD educator and marriage counselor, and we're going to be having a great conversation about boundaries. 

But I do want to say that I know this episode might be a little sensitive for some of you. So, that's your boundary today. That's OK too. So happy to welcome my guest, Melissa Orlov, to the show. We have a great conversation about boundaries and what they are and what they mean, and how we can show it for ourselves. And it's such a good conversation. I'm so excited to share it with you. So, without further ado, on with the show. 

Melissa Orlov. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. I'm so happy to have you. 

Melissa: Thank you. I feel like I should be jumping up and down. I love this. 

Cate: I'm a very enthusiastic person. Sometimes it's not the vibe. You know what I mean? We can bring it up. We can bring it down. It's adjustable.

Melissa: I think it's a vibe for anything that has to do with fixing up your relationship. It's cool. 

Cate: I love that. So, my first question is obviously going to be: Melissa, how long have you played the cello? 

Melissa: OK. I think for about eight years, but I haven't played it too much this year, so I'm not sure I can use the present tense. 

Cate: I bought a cello, and then I was like, I'm going to learn how to play the cello. And then I did for like two weeks, and I was very dedicated to it for that very special two weeks. So, I commend you on eight years. I also want everyone listening to the podcast to know that I absolutely nailed that joke on the first take, and there was no retakes at all. 

OK, Melissa. Let's get into it. So, really and, truly though I do want to start at the beginning because I think boundaries is a really important conversation and a really important thing that has started like really becoming part of like the collective consciousness and how we talk about relationships and intimacy. So, I guess the first question is: What is a boundary? 

(04:28) What is a boundary?

Melissa: Well, actually, it's a perfect place to start because people actually think of boundaries as limits for other people. And actually they're limits for yourself. It isn't about what other people can and can't do to you. So, when you're thinking about your personal values, I like to think of it as aligning your boundaries. Align your behavior with your value set. And so, part of thinking about where you want to say yes or no has to do with what you care about. 

Cate: OK, can you give us an example of just what like a really simple boundary might be in a relationship? 

Melissa: OK. So, for example, respectful behavior. 

Cate: OK. 

Melissa: So, if you have a boundary that says, it's, you know, that respectful behavior is something that you cherish, then the very first place that you start is actually with yourself and treating others with respect. And then if other people are not treating you with respect, you respond to that in a way that lets them know that that isn't OK with you, but it is first and foremost about you and how you yourself behave. 

Cate: OK, so what is the difference, then, between a rule that you're setting for somebody else and a boundary that you're setting for yourself? 

Melissa: Well, you can't control somebody else's behavior, right? So, I can say to somebody, "Hey, I don't really like the way you just treated me," but I don't. I'm not in control of it. I am in control of my own behavior. So, if I believe strongly that respect is important, then I need to hold myself to that standard. And if I don't hold myself to that standard and I believe it's important, then I probably owe somebody an apology or something to make it right. 

So, what you're doing with your boundaries is informing other people about where you want to participate in a conversation, or how you want to or action, rather than what they're allowed or not allowed to do. 

Cate: So, if I'm setting a boundary about respectful behavior with my partner and I say, "Hey, I really don't like it when you yell at me, it just it's uncomfortable. I don't like it. I don't find it respectful. So, my boundary is going to be that if you yell at me, I'm going to leave the room and give you ten minutes to cool down and then come in and check." Is that a boundary or is that a rule saying you're not allowed to yell at me? 

Melissa: No, I mean, that would be a rule. And I would also add to that if, you know, in order to leave the room, rather than stomping out of the room and slamming the door, you say, you know this, "I'm having trouble staying in this conversation. And so, I'm going to leave now, but I'll be back in ten minutes or 15 or whatever so that we can have a respectful conversation and so that I can stay respectful,"right? So you also leave respectfully. 

Cate: If we're talking about boundaries, like in the context of, you know, the heat of the argument, which is one context in which they might come up, but like boundaries happen around us all the time as we navigate through life, we are working through our boundaries. So, when do you think is a good time to start talking about boundaries when it comes to things like, "I really don't like being yelled at," you know, like that kind of thing? 

Melissa: So, the first thing is to live it yourself. And then I think it comes naturally. If you're in the midst of an argument, you have some choices about how you present yourself. And one of them, if you believe in respectful interactions, is if you feel yourself getting all heated is to say, "Hey, you know what? I'm struggling to maintain control right now. I'm going to need to withdraw from this for a little bit," rather than just jumping in and tearing at each other's throats. 

And this is one of the issues, actually, that people who have 1 or 2 ADHD partners face, which is that, emotional dysregulation that can come with ADHD, which is a part of the physiological part of ADHD, can be hard to manage. And so, it's tempting just to say, "Oh, well, I'm just one of those people that gets really heated right away," rather than take responsibility for it and say, "No, actually, I really need to set this as a target symptom and start to work on it." 

Cate: I love that you brought up this idea of knowing yourself and knowing what you need, because it's sort of become this accidental through line in this podcast of really interrogating and asking, you know, "Who do I want to be? How do I want to show up as a partner?" 

And I think that's such an interesting conversation, especially on a podcast where we're talking about communication. Because what I'm kind of learning as I do this is that a lot of communication is just knowing what you need before you start — a brilliant observation by me, Catieosaurus. Thanks for being here with me. Well, OK, so I guess like the next question then is for a person with ADHD, why is being able to name your boundaries so important? 

Melissa: Well, it's not just for people with ADHD, it's for everybody, right? It provides a consistency and an alignment in your life that gives you the ability to make some decisions when they come up. One of the things, as you were talking about, sense of self and figuring out yourself and, you know, knowing who you want to be ahead of time, I don't know that we always do know that. So, when stuff comes at us, all of a sudden we have a tendency — and I think particularly with ADHD, if there's any impulsivity or whatever — to just respond. 

So, the more consistent you are with sort of who you are, the more you know "Yes, I treasure this. I treasure regard for family" or "I treasure respect" or "I treasure the ability to innovate" or whatever those things are that are top of your own list. The easier it is to just be who you want to be without, like running off in a direction that doesn't make sense. 

If you think about conversations that you've had with people where you feel a lot of regret about something you said, it's typically because you were out of alignment with your basic values when you said something.

(10:20) How do we figure out what our boundaries are?

Cate: How do we figure out what we need, and how do we sort of explore that in conversation with setting up our boundaries? 

Melissa: Well, so when I work with clients, one of the things that I do is I use a model that was put together actually by Terri Cole, that is, it talks about, boundary intensity, and she has a bunch of other things she talks about as well. But I really like this idea for couples in particular, about thinking about boundary intensity. And so, thinking about your values and thinking about it at three levels. 

The first level is this is the lowest sort of least important level are your "wants" and the wants are your stuff like, well, if you know, if you have a choice of A or B, you know, OK, I guess I'll take A. 

Cate: Right. 

Melissa: And there's a ton of stuff in your life that's in that category. Then there's the next level up, which is what she calls "desires." And desires are things that you have come to your relationship with, where you really think that, you know, this is something you really wanted. I wanted a relationship that was playful, or I wanted a life full of adventure, or I wanted a certain kind of monogamy or not monogamy or whatever those things are. 

And you think about what's closest to those "wants" where you don't care about them that much versus what's up at the really sort of high level of that. And then the highest level and there aren't very many of these things are "deal breakers." I call them the "dropdeads," but they really she calls them the deal breakers, which is better. That's more professional. 

Those are the things where if you don't get that, you might not have it right now, but if you don't get that, eventually this particular relationship will not work for you because it's too internally conflicting for you. So, there are usually maybe a couple 1 to 4 things in that if you. If you have a bunch of those, then you're in the, you know, "It's my way or the highway" mode and you're not gonna probably have a very satisfying relationship. 

But it can be anything from, you know, it's so important to me to have a partner who hikes in the woods with me that if I can't have that, I don't want to be with this partner. It can be anything. So, that's how I think about it is really going through like, what are the things that I really cherish that I want, that I value about myself? I like to look at who was I when I liked myself the most and what qualities did I have? What values did I have at that point? 

Cate: Yeah, I'm really curious about like something that's really been happening with me a lot lately is, as I've gone to therapy and I got my antidepressant dosage sorted, they're working in this way that I'm like, "Oh, this is new. This is fun. I like being alive." And so, what I'm realizing is that a lot of my sort of smaller ones have remained the same, but a lot of my desires that sort of second level and even into the third level, those are changing. 

So, how do you have that conversation with couples when, you know, maybe one or both partners are in that process of sort of rediscovering wants, rediscovering desires, and like adjusting accordingly? Does that kind of make sense? 

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. I think it's a really exciting time. So, you're not doing it specifically as a couple. The results impact the couple. I mean, sort of the perfect coupledom is where you have two unique individuals, and then there's some Venn diagram of overlap where you're integrated partially but not fully. You do not want to be fully codependent or overlaid on each other. 

And so, each of you would come out and figure out what you really want. And then there's an opportunity to really explore it and understand it and enjoy it and figure out what that means for the two of you. It can be a really wonderful time. It can also be a time whereby you start to realize, "Oh, you know what? Family, as one example, is really, really important to me. And I happened to be partnered with somebody who could not care less about family or whatever, and maybe that's not going to actually work."

Your life would end up being more authentic and, you would ultimately feel less internally conflicted. And this stuff changes across your life. I mean, you know, you get to be gray-haired like me, and, you hope that has wisdom. But, you know.

Cate: Mine's just grad school. That's where mine came from. Just straight grad school. 

Melissa: So, you know, it does change over time. 

(14:51) People pleasing

Cate: Something that I run into a lot as I'm meeting women with ADHD and they're learning, especially late-diagnosed women who maybe didn't even know that they were neurodivergent until their 30s, or 40s or 50s, is that people pleasing becomes this major issue in relationships where that sort of rejection sensitivity, that people pleasing, that emotional dysregulation, like all of that stuff starts coming up and we start realizing like, "Wow, I'm really terrible at boundaries." What do we do? And I look at my notes. What do we do about it? 

Melissa: So, people pleasing us is a real issue. I mean, I want to back up a little bit, which is that people who have ADHD grow up with a huge amount of criticism, and they often have self-worth issues that they have to learn to address at some point in order to feel whole. 

It takes courage to be able to start to say, "This is actually what I want, and I am worthy enough to deserve to pursue it. And I don't have to please everybody." Which doesn't mean you're not going to be nice to them or anything else. It just means "No, wait, I get to set the rules for my own life" and that can be a wonderful experience. 

Cate: I used to get so angry when I would hear people talk about that, that idea of like, "Oh, you just have to value yourself. You just have to decide what you want." And then it turns out that it was true the whole time. And I was like, I spent so long being like, "Oh, I couldn't possibly, I couldn't possibly. I'm not worthy of it. I don't deserve it." Whatever. 

And then it finally just came to a head in my life and I realized, like, "Wow, I'm spending a lot of time being a person that is not authentically me. I'm being somebody completely different because this is what I've just sort of like, I've boxed myself into the corner" and that was so frustrating for me, and I had a lot of resentment about it. 

Melissa: There are so many people who have that exact same situation. If you're a people pleaser, you're a people pleaser because it's the least... 

Cate: It's a path of least resistance. 

Melissa: It feels better than being in conflict. 

Cate: Well, so I guess like my question out of that, though, is if we realize we have been a person who maybe didn't advocate for our boundaries as well as we should, how do we go about repairing that, I don't want to say damage, but the changes that might occur in relationships when all of a sudden we say, "Hey, actually, that thing that you've been doing for ten years, I'm actually not OK with it"? 

Melissa: First of all, you go into some room somewhere and you dance because you're doing so well. But secondly, I run into this a lot with the ADHD partner, regardless of gender, when I work with couples, where you've developed a dynamic that I call parent-child dynamics, where you've got somebody who's in charge and somebody who's not in charge. And it is one of the best signs of progress when the ADHD partner starts to stand up and say, no, you know what? I'm not okay with that when they start to push back. 

And so, what you do with that is you keep going. I always tell people, "Don't abandon your partner. Don't be mean to your partner about this stuff. Just hold your ground in a way that feels right to you and see what happens." Because actually, one of the things I see is that non-ADHD partners are actually waiting for their partners to step up as partners, and they haven't always been in that role. They've been in this more sort of lower-status role as this childlike figure. 

And so, while shaking up the status quo feels uncomfortable and they might be going like, "Oh, you know, I can't believe you're talking. Just go do it," or whatever they're saying, reality as if they actually want a partner, that's what happens. You get respectful pushback. Partners have their own points of view. That's what you're headed towards, to be able to respectfully have your own points of view and be able to then figure out how to negotiate the differences that those points of view bring up. 

Cate: Another sort of common pattern that I see a lot is the overachieving, people-pleasing, burnt-out, gifted kid, usually woman with ADHD, who is getting by, but she's getting by because she's burning the candle at both ends and she's managing the household. She's making sure the kids get everywhere. And like, you know, the little stop falls through the cracks. But as a whole, you know, the house is run and all of that kind of stuff. 

And then that woman says, or person, you know, I don't want to get like super gender specific, but you know, that that sort of figure in that ADHD relationship of it, "I've always had to have my stuff so completely together or my entire life falls apart. And so, I've become this, like, perfectionist. And so, now if stuff doesn't get done, I get really stressed out, I get really freaked out." And so I wonder, like the sort of opposite of that when the ADHD person is also the parents, what do you do? 

Melissa: Well, so often that's gender specific. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Melissa: In our society we teach women to be the problem solvers and caretakers. And so, you have a lot of women in particular who are really going full board to keep their lives together and etc. And then the ADHD makes it just harder because it just takes longer. As you were saying, you create the lists and you become a perfectionist and you do all this stuff. It takes more effort to be able to get the same stuff done. 

And so, there's sort of a double whammy there for women who have ADHD. And it's really hard. And this is part of going back to boundaries and all of that stuff, this is part of why I think this theme is coming up for you, which is: be who you are. Don't be who society expects you to be. Don't be the perfect person with the perfect lists. Be who you are and there's going to be a tribe for you somewhere. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Melissa: And hopefully it will include the people who are, you know, the person that you're most, that you're currently romantically involved with. Once they get used to the fact that you're presenting yourself differently than you used to. 

(20:45) How do we work on creating and evolving boundaries with a partner?

Cate: Yeah. My last sort of like main question for this conversation is: How do we work on creating and evolving boundaries with the partner? 

Melissa: I think it's conversations. I think it's intimacy. I don't mean just physical intimacy. I mean verbal intimacy. So, there is this way of conversing where each of you has the right to your logic flow, to your word choices, to whatever the outcome of all that is, you have the right to be you and your partner has the right to be them. And the way that you converse essentially is you agree to converse not aggressively and respond non-defensively. 

And in that setup, that's a very good way to say, "Hey, this thing is really important for me." You're not saying "You must adopt this thing." You're saying "This is really important to me. I care about it." And hopefully, the other person is curious. And curiosity is one way to really go after figuring out how the two of you fit these two things together. Where are the "ands" rather than the "ors"? 

Cate: Oh, that's really good. 

Melissa: You know, the way to find "Well, OK, we don't totally agree on this thing, but we do have some commonalities and that's important." 

(22:16) Top three things to know, and some activities to get started

Cate: Melissa, something that I like to do with all of my guests is to just kind of say, if you had, you know, a magical fairy comes down and grants you three pieces of information that everyone in the world will now know about ADHD and relationships, setting boundaries, that kind of thing, what would you want people to know? 

Melissa: Well, the first thing I would want them to know is that if they find out and really become educated about how ADHD impacts couples specifically, there is a huge amount of progress and change that they can make in their own relationship to help improve their relationship. 

The kinds of things that couples fall into are really because they don't understand ADHD. In part, not completely, but in part. So, that's the first thing. The second thing is I want to tell everybody: You can do it. 

The third thing is that if they are going to work with a professional, which is often a very good idea, that they should try to seek out someone who understands ADHD because the same types of misunderstandings that can happen for couples who have ADHD and don't know about it also happen with professionals. And this is actually part of why I have become so interested in teaching professionals about how to work with these couples. 

Cate: Do you have like, a quick five, ten-minute activity that you could recommend? Like if a couple really wants to like start doing this work tonight? 

Melissa: I would say the activity would be to go to my website, which has a lot of information. I'm not sure you want to put that in your podcast or not, but I know I write this blog, which is useful to people, but also there's just a ton of information there. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Melissa: And that's the first part to get educated or go look up some videos on the topic. 

Cate: Yeah, well, I love what you said earlier too, about just sort of sitting down and really just journaling about my wants, my desires, and then my dealbreakers. 

Melissa: Yeah. So, that's for the boundary stuff. So, if you're talking about ADHD in general, then I'd say my website for couples is one of the best resources along with my seminar. But the boundary stuff, if they want to do ten minutes on boundaries, then I would say sit in a quiet place and just start to bullet all over. It doesn't have to be organized, it can be wherever or put, you know, one thing per notecard and then move the notecards around the table. You want to capture all the ideas and then organize them into layers. 

Cate: That's so good. I'm going to do that tonight. I'm excited. 

(24:42) Cate’s Comment Corner

All right everybody, it's time for Cate's comment card corner — we still haven't named it. That's just going to, I just want you to know it's going to be the bet. It's going to be the bet forever is we're never going to name the segment. And then it's just going to be our thing that we shared. It's going to be so great and fun until my editor tells me to stop. So, today's question, Melissa Orlov, comes to us from we're going to call her "Resentful." 

I chose this one particularly because I know you do a lot of marriage counseling work and working with couples with ADHD. And this email, it rang so true to me, and I really feel like it's also going to resound for like a lot of our listeners. So, I will read you the email and then you can give me your reaction in your thoughts. 

"I'm an ADHD woman who struggles with executive functions, unrealistic expectations, and social pressures, and who constantly looks for ADHD hacks. I knew I wasn't inherently good at organization, so what did I do? I read everything I could get my hands on organization and how to do it for all the things. I knew I needed to improve and be more productive, so I read everything I could on time management and productivity. 

This has been a trend my whole life in that when I notice a deficit in myself, I do everything I can to try and minimize that deficit. I live with a man and his children who give minimal regard to improving the things affected by their ADHD. The dynamic of the situation drives me bananas." Well, I also wore my tiny banana shirt to dress to the theme. You're welcome. Moving right along. 

Melissa: I love that. 

Cate:  I'm very fun at parties. OK, so back to the email. 

"I've recently observed something about myself. I found myself irritated by my husband leaving things everywhere and never putting things back where they go. Here's the kicker, I too leave things out and have several DOOM piles around my house. This irritates me about myself on top of being irritated with him. 

I find myself only focusing on his stuff left out. And it may be because for whatever reason, it's difficult for me to see my own stuff until his stuff is out of the way. Upon further reflection, I realize that this is a ridiculous perspective, and I'm currently working on shifting it. So, here's my question: Is it common for ADHD spouses to be irritated by their partner's ADHD quirks? And what can I do to let go of that resentment?" Is that such a good question? 

Melissa: That's a great question. I love it. 

Cate: It's great. That's such a good question. 

Melissa: Yeah. She goes around and even recognizes that she's writing that "Oh wait, hold on." 

Cate: Love the introspection. 

Melissa: OK, so a few things I notice in that question, aside from the fact that I love it. First of all, it is a dual ADHD couple with ADHD kids and that has its own special challenges. But, that's a different podcast. She gets an idea about something she wants to correct. She's very aware of how she wants to improve herself. And women tend to do this, particularly versus men. And so, she fits right in there. But she's really hyperfocusing in on some. 

She goes and reads everything she can read and she talks about learning all of this stuff. She. Doesn't actually talk about executing it, which is a gap that is actually pretty common. You know, you go out, you view the reading of it as the same thing as doing it. So, for example, if she was reading a lot about her clothes and messiness and also hiring a coach to learn how to fix pick it up, she wouldn't still be trying to figure out how not to ding herself for leaving her clothes out. Right? 

So, I think that one of the things that I would suggest for this person is that she consider hiring a coach who can help her hone in on one or two things that are particularly useful for herself and to be able to make that kind of progress. She's then in a stronger position to be able to say, "I would love to see some action on your side as well because I'm struggling with this." 

When it comes to boundaries, she has to really figure out, and this is one of the tricky parts about boundaries. It's really hard to say "I have a boundary around cleanliness. I don't actually hold to it, but I want you to hold to it." Right? And this is part of why it's so important to think of boundaries as something for yourself versus for somebody else. Because at the point at which you're actually consistently able to hold to that, then also it's easier to request that somebody else do. 

Cate: So, I want to piggyback off of that a little bit, because I'm curious about how if we start to really show up for ourselves, so, if we start to really recognize our wants, our desires, our dealbreakers, and we start to realize, "Wow, I think I really do need a partner who supports me more with the cleaning or the organization, or mowing the lawn" or whatever the task is, how do we facilitate that conversation where we're not demanding that the other person suddenly change who they are? 

But how do we have that conversation in which we start asking for what we want in a way that aligns with our boundaries? 

Melissa: Well, first of all, you disconnect it from a specific solution. 

Cate: OK. What would that look like? I'm curious. 

Melissa: Well, so she's got a problem right now, which is that our house is really messy and people are dropping things all over the place. There are a bunch of different ways to solve that one, you can delegate it. If you have enough money to hire a housekeeper, you could get a housekeeper who also straightens. 

Another would be to do some of that research she does so well and put in things like clear plastic bins and extra hangers and things that align with how people come into the house and drop stuff. It's the equivalent of hanging up a key rack for keys. So, ways to make it easier to naturally pick these things up. Or you do something like you say, "OK, let's gamify it. Let's do an all-family raise the clock, see how many things you can get done. And we're going to keep points and a certain number of points gets the ice cream" or whatever the heck it is, right? 

I mean, seriously, these are the kinds of things that if you are really thinking about ADHD, that work. 

Cate: Yeah. 

Melissa: Yeah. I mean, we used to do a thing where we had, I used to do six loads of laundry at once when everybody was at home. I did all the laundry, and then I would dump it all in the bed, and we would have family laundry nights, and we would talk, or somebody would get to pick the music for the night. We, you know, rotated it. So, we had to listen to the ten-year-old's music or the 45-year-old's music or whatever was going on, right? 

And even though nobody adored doing this, it was made better by the fact that all four of us were doing it together. It was very specific, you know, and that then those six loads got folded. It was done, you know, take it into your room and then what you do with it in your room was your own business, right? You could leave it on the floor if you wanted to. 

Cate: I got to know, what music did you choose? 

Melissa: I don't even remember. That was a long time ago. So, the first thing that you've done in this question, though, is, you know, how do you do this with your partner? And what I'm saying is decouple it from the person or from a specific solution. So, right now, she's feeling resentful in part because she expects him to be the solution.

And maybe he's not the solution. Or maybe the two of them together are creating these systems or they, you know, save money and don't go out for coffee so much and get a housekeeper or whatever the thing is, and do something in a new way. You have to be really creative when you're coming up with solutions that work for families. 

Cate: I think that's something that's just really important to highlight is, I think part of having ADHD and being in a relationship with someone with ADHD is that there is a creativity and a flexibility and a compassion and kindness that is needed because it's like I try really hard, you know, to remember to pick up my shoes and put my keys in the bowl and all of that stuff. But sometimes I forget. 

I feel like if I had a partner who was constantly like, "You never put your shoes on the thing" like that would just make me feel really crappy about myself. 

Melissa: Yeah. 

Cate: Whereas if I have a partner who approaches it with kindness and "Hey, how do we do laundry together? Or "How do we build this together in a system together that works for everybody?" Like, I think that's a really beautiful point about being able to just work with a person to support you, but not necessarily parentify the relationship like you talked about earlier. 

Melissa: Yeah, you have to be really careful about the royal "we," particularly non-ADHD partners. How do we do blah blah blah? And when I, you know I'm working with these couple I go  "Is it a really a "we" or are you just trying to get your partner on board? You know, let's talk about that royal "we" you just used. 

Cate: That's also true. 

Melissa: But the things that I was talking about, you know, this is a "Hey, I'm really starting to feel uncomfortable in my house right now. I understand that I contribute to it. So, I'm not saying that this is all about you. I'm saying I'm starting to feel uncomfortable in my house, the overall thing. OK, so let's figure out what are the options that we have to address that work for both of us and allow us to use whatever we feel comfortable using." 

Cate: That's so great. Melissa Orlov, you are the author of The Couples Guide to Thriving with ADHD and he ADHD Effect on Marriage. You're on ADHDmarriage.com, and your work was so instrumental to helping me unpack my relationships and my marriage after my ADHD diagnosis. I am so honored and thrilled to sit with you today. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Where can the people find you? 

Melissa: They can find me at ADHDmarriage.com, and I have all sorts of resources there for couples and or even individuals who are interested in pursuing relationship issues. 

Cate: Fantastic. And is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you really want to hit on? Anything else to say? Comments? Thoughts? 

Melissa: First of all, I'm delighted to be invited to talk to you. And secondly, I just, you know, I get very excited whenever I think about couples starting to approach this because it is good news to start to really go understand ADHD, its impact on your relationship, and also boundaries and how to set your life more in a path that makes sense to you. 

Cate: Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email me at SorryIMissedThis@understood.org. 

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org. 

"Sorry, I Missed This" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli and Margie DeSantis. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ilana Millner is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. 

For Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. I'm your host, Cate Osborn. Thank you so much for listening. Remember to be kind to yourself, remember to be kind to others, and I'll see you again soon. 

How long have you played this... I had such a funny joke and then I botched the punchline!