Why kids with learning differences can thrive in STEM

You might have heard or seen the acronym STEM in education circles. It stands for science, technology, engineering, and math. And it can be very helpful for kids with learning and thinking differences.

In this episode of In It, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek talk with Kara Ball. Kara is the author of 50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM Skills. She has been a science and special education teacher, and a STEM education specialist for Baltimore public schools. She was also a finalist for National Teacher of the Year in 2018. 

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org.

Timestamps

(1:18) Defining STEM

(3:16) Kara’s dyslexia and dyscalculia diagnoses

(5:07) Why Kara became a special education teacher

(8:23) Understanding where STEM and learning and thinking differences meet

(20:31) Working on communication and collaboration

Related resources

• What is dyslexia?

• What is dyscalculia?

• Video: Are boys better at math than girls?

• What if the teacher has learning differences, too?

• Kara’s book: 50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM Skills

Episode transcript

Gretchen: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently.

Rachel: Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes and yes, sometimes failures, from experts and from parents and caregivers like you.

Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org.

Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it. Today we want to do some myth-busting.

Gretchen: And the myth we're busting is the idea that kids who struggle with math, or who have other learning and thinking differences, can't be great in STEM classes.

Rachel: STEM stands for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. But as an approach to teaching and learning, it's so much more than that.

Gretchen: We're going to get into all of that with STEM expert Kara Ball.

Rachel: Kara has been a science and special education teacher, a district STEM specialist for the city of Baltimore, and she was a finalist for National Teacher of the Year in 2018.

Gretchen: She's the author of "50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM Skills" and is pursuing a PhD in innovative education.

Rachel: She's been a guest on the podcast before, and we're so happy to have her here again. Kara, welcome back to "In It."

Gretchen: Yes, we're happy to have you back.

Kara: I'm so excited to be back.

(1:18) Defining STEM

Gretchen: So, before we get started, I think it's worth defining what STEAM is, or sometimes it's referred to as STEAM. We know it stands for science, technology, engineering, and math, but it seems to also refer to an approach to learning. It's not just your typical math class where you just have to memorize a whole bunch of stuff and get the answers right, or you get them wrong. Is that right? Can you talk a little bit about what we mean when we say a STEM approach or STEM classes?

Kara: Yeah, I know, absolutely. It is an approach to like inquiry-based learning. So, this idea that you follow either like an engineering design process or you're presented with a problem, you do some research, some learning, maybe that's where your experiments exist. And then as you learn more about how to solve the problem, you start to come up with a solution.

So, it's this idea that you are creating a solution to solve a problem while learning content through real-world experiences that allow you to apply what you know in a realistic application.

Gretchen: Which sounds amazing.

Kara: It is.

Gretchen: And if someone is referring to it as STEAM, what does the A stand for?

Kara: So, the A stands for art, and I will also say that I recently have seen places refer to it as STREAM. So S-T-R-E-A-M and the R is just for robotics. So, some STEAM programmings are heavier in the computer science or robotics programming and they just amplify and added the R for robotics, but it could exist inside of the T for technology or the E for engineering.

Rachel: Got it. So, I want to talk a little bit about your experience as a kid. We know it's not uncommon for people to assume that kids with learning and thinking differences, like dyslexia or dyscalculia aren't good at subjects like math or science. And you've written about your own experiences with this growing up. Can you talk about that? What did you struggle with as a student?

(3:16) Kara's dyslexia and dyscalculia diagnoses

Kara: Yeah, so I was diagnosed and third grade with dyslexia. I wasn't meeting the benchmarks for reading. However, I knew all the books in the classroom because I have a photographic memory, so it took a while for my teachers to catch on. I should also add that I come from a family of teachers. So, my grandmother was a teacher. My great-grandmother was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. My dad is technically a teacher as well, so I had some really good strategies that I could use to help me kind of sort of like get by.

But I made it to sixth grade and I couldn't pass the state assessment no matter how many times they tried. And they realized that I had dyscalculia. So I had, some challenges with approaching math in a typical way or the way that my teachers expected me to. But my dad was really great at making those activities realistic for me. So, we talked about that being one of the key factors of STEM education is this realistic application.

So, when I couldn't figure out geometry concepts, we went and built a tree house. Like he would make me do the measurements, we would make the blueprint, we put the tape measure, I would cut with the saw, and we would just go through this iterative process. Or if I was having problems understanding physics, we would buy model rocket kits and we would launch model rockets.

And I actually ended up doing a lot of those same activities with my students when I was a STEM teacher because I knew how beneficial it is to make these abstract concepts hands-on and real-world for my students.

Rachel: That's great. Something that you included in an article you wrote, you said that you wished your 10th-grade math teacher understood how badly you wanted to be the kind of student that they wanted you to be. And so, can you talk a little bit about how your teachers did make things better for you or in some cases, maybe worse?

(5:07) Why Kara became a special education teacher

Kara: Yeah, my 10th-grade math teacher was the catalyst for me wanting to become a special education teacher. Like I had always known that I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be just like my grandmother — she was a fifth-grade science teacher.

But I had such a bad experience with my math teachers all through school, but it kind of culminated in that 10th-grade math class where I had been going every day after school to get tutoring because I knew that I was struggling. I wasn't understanding the information the way it was presented, but they just kept presenting it the same way and expected a different outcome. And he got frustrated and just blurted out in front of the class that I was stupid and never going to amount to anything.

Gretchen: Oh my God, ugh.

Kara: Yeah, like wanted humiliated, wanted to run out of the classroom. And I had a peer who came up to me afterwards who is still a good friend of mine that was like, "I'm so sorry. I know how hard you work. That's not OK." I went home, told my parents, and they were like, "We're going to do something about this," but there's not really a lot that you could do. But I was like, you know, like, there has to be a different experience for students with learning and thinking differences than this. Like, this can't be how it is.

Rachel: No.

Kara: So, I decided that I was going to major in special education, but I had a sixth-grade science teacher who was the teacher I went to after that math teacher who told me that I was stupid, I'm never going to amount to anything, and his name was Mr. Dalton. And he was the first teacher who saw something in me that I didn't even know existed and was like, "Hey, let's give her a chance in honors science."

And I was like, "What? This is an honors class. I don't belong there. Don't you know who I am? Like, I'm the kid that gets Cs and has to see like three tutors and my grandmother comes over on the weekends to drill like, math facts with me. Are you sure you have the right person?" And he was like, "You're really good at this. Like you see science in a different way."

And I think that's one of the things that my students do really well in STEM class is they just think about things a little bit differently. There's this assumption that students with learning and thinking differences aren't going to be strong in STEM because they struggle with math, or they're not great at reading right away, rather than looking at those unique strengths like highly creative, great at problem-solving, abstract thinkers.

And that's really what makes them so good in STEM education. It's what makes me so good in STEM education. And it just takes one person to say, like, "You can do that," to kind of change the trajectory of your life. And that was Mr. Dalton for me and my 10th-grade math teacher also kind of, sort of, even though it wasn't a positive experience, influenced where I went.

Rachel: Yeah. Wow.

Gretchen: Okay, Kara, I want to pick up on something you mentioned as being part of your own experience. And that is the assumption that people sometimes make that a kid with learning and thinking differences won't be good at STEM. I'd love to dive into that just a little bit more and maybe hear an example from you. Like if there's a parent listening in there saying, "Well, you know, my kid really loves science and engineering-like topics, but, you know, they struggle with math. So, how can I make the two meet or will the two ever meet?" Do you have any thoughts on that?

(8:23) Understanding where STEM and learning and thinking differences meet

Kara: Yeah, I think they do meet, and I think STEM is the place where they can really sort of thrive because it explains the "Why am I learning this?" Like, why did I need to learn geometry? Because we need to be able to measure these PVC pipes to cut them to build our robot that we're going to use in our sea perch product. Like, it helps to show them the why of it.

The other thing that I would say is a lot of my students who have learning and thinking differences have really intense interests. I myself have very intense interests. I am very passionate about the natural sciences and computer science, and it gives me the ability to focus that interest in a way that can be beneficial. Like, I was obsessed with sharks growing up to the point that like my first tattoo was a shark and I do a shark dissection project with my second graders every year.

Gretchen: Second graders are dissecting sharks? Hold on.

Kara: Second graders are dissecting sharks.

Rachel: Wow.

Gretchen: I just want to double-check that's what you said.

Kara: Like that could be a whole side tangent on giving students early opportunities to show just how capable they are.

Gretchen: Wow.

Kara: Like, we kind of sort of bubble wrap things for children when they really can. Obviously, it's structured, there's supports, we had volunteers, but yeah, they were looking at external features of spiny fish, dog sharks and trying to figure out what might have like caused that injury or whether or not they had babies.

But I see that those interests can be the driving factor for engaging. So, there might be reluctant learners that may be hesitant to participate in school because all they've experienced are challenges. And people like my 10th-grade teacher saying that they're not good at this. And then all of a sudden they can take that thing that they love to learn about, and they can be the expert in the room. They could be the person that tells you all about it.

I had a student who I taught for multiple years, and he used to hack our computer school systems and was notorious, like had this reputation that preceded him in such a negative way that did a disservice for every teacher who encountered him. They made these assumptions about him, and I ended up being a third-grade, fourth-grade, and fifth-grade teacher, and we ended up changing that to a computer science focus.

Like, "Tell me more about it. Like, how did you get into the grade book? Like, I would like to know how you changed your grade," and realized that they were so incredibly skilled that we weren't seeing it as a strength instead of a weakness. And I ended up having him be part of our school's IT team. So, any time a teacher couldn't get their printer to work...

Rachel: I love this.

Kara: Or having trouble, my student came down like he had his own badge and lanyard and would show up and...

Gretchen: Nice.

Kara: And he goes to a magnet computer science school now. Like a student that was predicted to not even, like be successful at middle school, who had a behavior intervention plan, and that was his whole identity, is now a student that's in a magnet school program for computer science.

And like we changed his trajectory just because we stopped for a second and said, "Let's talk about the thing that you're really interested in and how can we make those a strength for you.

Rachel: That is so awesome. And I don't know how plugged in our audience is to this, but this reminds me of in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" when he gets into the school computer from his room and changes his number of absences.

Kara: Yes.

Rachel: That's all I can think of when you're telling this story.

Kara: Like, how can we just make that into something that's really helpful?

Rachel: Yeah, that's really awesome.

Gretchen: One last thing I was going to say about this with, you know, kids with learning and thinking differences and STEM is, you know, you brought up earlier that STEM often uses like inquiry, right? And like engineering practices, which is all about trying and failing and trying again. And it seems like that's what happens naturally for lots of kids with learning and thinking differences at the beginning, right? Until they get the supports they need.

Kara: Yeah, I think for me personally, like all day long, all I do is like make mistakes and have to reflect on like what worked and what didn't work and pivot and adjust and then use what I've learned to help influence the decisions that I make going forward. And a lot of my students with learning and thinking differences, that is their daily life, whether it's academic social interactions in school or just their daily lives, their ability to persist is so much stronger than my neurotypical students.

So, when I present them with STEAM challenge, there's when we do at the beginning of every school year, and it's just to try to build the tallest tower possible and my students with learning and thinking differences just jump right in and are like troubleshooting as they go, where the rest of the students are just kind of like they're cautious to get started, they're hesitant, they don't want to make a mistake, they don't want to fail, and they don't understand that that is part of the learning process.

And when I go and I talk to like beginning teachers, STEM teachers about like the one thing that I think is the most important for us to teach and to emphasize is that failure is incredibly important.

Like it's more important to teach than success because what you do when you don't get it right the first time, it's going to give you the ability to problem-solve and troubleshoot as you go forward. Like, I learn way more if it takes me a couple of tries than if I get it on the first time and then It's gone from my brain. I don't even remember what I did right.

Rachel: Or you just lucked out.

Kara: Or I just lucked out.

Rachel: Yeah.

Kara: But if it's something that I like, I had to do some research, had to try to... So, if my students are like building a bridge — we always have a bridge challenge — and we intentionally design that to have it collapse. Like, I don't want your bridge to stay up. I don't, that's not the goal. I want you to tell me "When does it fail?" And I talk about how that's a really important part of the engineering process.

If I'm an engineer and I'm designing a bridge, I need to know how many cars I can put on it before it's going to collapse. I'm not just going to guess and hope that it's ten cars...

Gretchen: Right.

Kara: If it's nine cars and the bridge collapses, then I need to know that. And we talk about failure through the lens of an engineer and how it guarantees you success if you know the points that are a weakness, like how high can that truck be that drives under the bridge? We see it time and time again, the photos of trucks that drive into bridges because they don't understand their height.

I mean, in my book about teaching STEM strategies I have an entire chapter dedicated to activities for helping people teach failure and resiliency. And our students with learning and thinking differences are really good at persisting when challenged.

Gretchen: So, speaking of getting people excited as parents and caregivers are listening to this, they might be like, "Wow, like, this is something I want to try with my kid. Like, I bet my kid would really love STEM despite some of the academic challenges they may have at school." So, what kinds of activities can families do at home to help their kids with, you know, growing into a STEM approach or trying STEM activities?

Kara: Yeah. So, I would say the first and most important thing is just to promote curiosity, and then that inquiry piece. When we talk about inquiry, it's this idea of exploring things that you wonder about. So, if your child is on a walk around the neighborhood, pointing out the things that they see or encouraging them to ask questions.

We do like, color walks. So, if you need like, more structure, like "Let's look for things that are yellow." And if they come to something and they point it out and then it's orange, ask them, "Why do you think it's yellow?" Don't say "That's not, that's not yellow, that's orange." Like, go through a lens of asking questions.

The other thing I would say along the lines of questions is don't immediately give them the answer. When I'm doing STEAM challenges with my students, they'll be like, "Can I do this?" And much to their frustration, my response is, "I didn't say you couldn't," because I want them to build confidence and knowing that they have all the information they need, and if they don't, there are places and people they can go to that aren't the adults in the room.

Because the assumption that the adults know everything is also not a great way to encourage an inquiry-based mindset. So, with my students, if they ask me something, or with your children, if they ask you something, say, "I don't know," but tell them what you do to find out. "Let's go to the library and look for a book. Let's look online at a government or edu credible website to check the information." Or "Let's try this together."

I do a back-to-school session with parents at the beginning of the year just to talk about STEM, and we talk about creating a STEM-friendly environment. If you're going to go and buy a set of building blocks, yes, that themed kit is awesome, but your child's not going to be able to see past what that kit is. Instead, buy the generic bag of the building bricks and let them build whatever. You could give them examples of the Paris Eiffel Tower from the Olympics.

It's like, "Man, I wonder if we could build that today," or "Let's build a boat for an action figure." Give them some props, but don't require them to do it exactly step by step. I would also always look out into your community. There are tons of maker spaces, science centers, museums, libraries have big STEM activities. There are community programs. Colleges and universities will hold STEM days.

Go out into the community and experience those things, or just go out into nature. Walk a trail, go down by the stream. There's lots of activities to do, so asking questions, using materials that have flexibility to them and are a little unstructured, encourage them to look and use all of their senses. What do you see? What do you hear? What do you taste? Is cautious. What do you touch?

The other thing that I would say is if they create something and it's not exactly aligned with what you think it should be, let it exist. When we have our parent meetings, we have a STEAM challenge where the students are supposed to create something for the future out of recycled goods.

And this would be like a prototype example that I had a parent who came in and was like, "But my kid put a popsicle stick in a cup and called it a time machine." And I was like, "That's a great time machine. Like, I love that time machine. Like, we're not here to discourage, we're here to encourage. And it's a time machine and it's awesome. And I can't wait to see what she does with the time machine in the future."

Gretchen: That's awesome. Can I ask, is cooking considered a STEM activity?

Kara: Absolutely. It's just not one that I'm good at. No. Yeah. There's so much experimentation and trial and error. Sometimes your brownies come out and sometimes you forgot to set the timer, and they burned and the smoke alarm went off. Like, absolutely. I think that's also something that people don't understand is all the things that could be STEAM.

I had, a little girl that I taught in third grade who didn't want to come to my STEAM class, and that hurt my heart because I'd always had students that were so excited. But she wanted nothing to do with STEAM because she loved fashion. And when she came into class one day, she had those like, Lelli Kelly shoes that like, light up and have sequins all over them. And I was like, "Man, I love the engineer who made those shoes light up. Like, how do you think the lights got there?"

Like, and then we talked about the shoes, like how some shoes are designed for running and how some shoes are waterproof and how some shoes go all the way up to your ankle, and some are colorful and some are neutral. And we started looking at all the pieces of fashion and how they were influenced by science, waterproofing of materials, and how water runs off of leaf surfaces in camouflage, and how that's an animal adaptation but we also use it in our design.

And she became enthralled with STEM because she saw it across everything that she does. And that's the thing that we like, we want students to understand is that it's everywhere. It's all around you.

(20:31) Working on communication and collaboration

Rachel: So, typically STEM requires collaboration and communication and things that kids with learning and thinking differences might struggle with. What, how can we support them there?

Kara: So, we do a lot of structured collaboration with my students, even for my students who are typically developing, especially at the beginning, because STEM is so collaborative, what we like to do is making sure that there are defined roles, and that every student gets a chance to be in a role, and those might vary depending on the activity that you're doing. Clear instructions for what those roles do, that way there's no like, confusion.

And at the beginning of the school year we spend time talking about it. But I also let the students tell me what role they prefer over which roles they don't because I also want to honor that. Like myself as somebody who is neurodivergent, does not want to be like the public speaker or be put on the spot. But I'm really, really good at managing the materials and making sure that we have all of the things that we do, because that's where my strengths lie, and honoring the strengths and weaknesses and the comfort that every person has and what they do.

With that being said, I also do flexible groupings. So, not always will we work in large groups; sometimes we'll work by ourselves, sometimes we'll work in pairs, sometimes we'll work in large groups, sometimes students can select the groups. Sometimes I assign the groups.

If I have a student that I know doesn't do really well with unpredictability, I let them know in advance of what their group is going to be like, "Hey, you're going to be with the blue students today. I know you're a red student, but we're going to put you with the blue group today" and let them have like, the weekend to think about it. I also have, sentence STEMS and posters for like how to start a conversation, how to give feedback. Because students can be really blunt.

Rachel: Right?

Kara: Really blunt.

Rachel: Yes.

Kara: And I'm like "Oh, that was harsh. But here's some ways that we could have phrased that," so that it was constructive. And a lot of times it's not done in a way that's intentional.

Rachel: Yeah.

Kara: Like I have to use artificial intelligence all the time to check my tone because I'm super analytical, cut and dry, straight to the point. Like, if I send an email, I don't always remember to say a greeting or a hello or those standard nuances of communication. I'm like, right to the point. So, we have those posters and sentence starters for students that help them to communicate and collaborate with their groups.

The other thing I would say is scaffolding is so important. Like we save our big collaborative projects for the end of the year. We don't start off, we build it either with like guided modeling, some practice or even that like gradual release model where it's like, "OK, watch me, let's do it together. Now go try." You just have to have that ongoing support.

Gretchen: So, this has been so exciting talking to you. I just want to go out and do a bunch of projects now.

Kara: Yes. I like the projects.

Gretchen: Yeah. So, I'm wondering, do you have any cool projects that you're working on now or that you're excited to work on besides obviously writing a dissertation, which is in itself a giant project?

Kara: That is a big project. That's a very big project that I hope to finish soon. I have been... I love to hike outside, and I love to camp and do those types of things. So, I've been working on building out different modular units for my car that I can plug in and take out based on the activity that I'm doing.

So, I have one for like car camping that has a table that can pull out, and I have another one that has like my paddle boarding equipment. And my hope is to add a car camping. I call them "jigs" that I can like put in my car so I can car camp. And I make them a lot of cardboard first, and then I use that as my template and then I make it out of wood.

Rachel: Wow.

Gretchen: And is this in a typical-size car or are you talking about putting this all in a van?

Kara: No, I have, like a Subaru Crosstrek. A little teeny tiny house trek.

Gretchen: Wow.

Kara: It's really easy to fit in the parallel parking space in the city, but building out modular compartments to fit my specific needs makes it easier for me to go out and access the outdoors.

Gretchen: Oh, my God, I'm so in awe.

Rachel: That's so cool.

Rachel: Thank you so much.

Gretchen: Yes, thank you so much. This has been awesome.

Kara: Thanks for having me back.

Rachel: Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org.

Gretchen: And check out the show notes for this episode, where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.

Rachel: This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org.

Gretchen: "In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin, with additional production support from Cody Nelson and Ash Beecher. Justin D, Wright, mixes the show and Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director.

Rachel: From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening.

Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.