Sorry, I Missed This: ADHD breakups — Impulsive texts and overthinking regrets

Sometimes, romantic relationships just don’t work out. And breaking up with someone can be really tough — including having the breakup conversation. With ADHD, overthinking, people-pleasing, and rejection sensitivity can make it even harder. 

This week, ADHD coach and author of I Don’t Hate My Ex-Husband Jess DuBose visits Sorry, I Missed This. Listen to learn how to check in with yourself about your relationship, and some tips to help you through a breakup conversation. 

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

Related resources

• ADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD)

• Jess’ website, jessdubose.com

• I Don’t Hate My Ex-Husband by Jess DuBose

• National Domestic Violence Hotline

• Rainn.org

Timestamps

(02:08) Why did Jess write her book?

(04:13) How does ADHD impact breaking up?

(05:19) Staying in a relationship because of people-pleasing

(07:42) Jess’ growth process: ASPIRE

(10:22) Guided meditation exercise about whether or not to break up with someone

(14:08) What can help you through a breakup

(19:32) Initiating the conversation to end a relationship

(24:10) How to avoid the impulse to backpedal during the breakup conversation

(27:37) Jess’ parting advice

(29:14) Where you can find Jess

Episode transcript

Cate: Hi everybody, and welcome back to "Sorry, I Missed This," the show where we talk about ADHD and all things intimacy, relationships, and communication. And today we are talking about ending relationships with ADHD coach and author of "I Don't Hate My Ex-husband," Jess DuBose.

Now, Jesse DuBose literally wrote the book on breaking up with people, which I think is absolutely fantastic because breaking up can be overwhelming. It can be challenging to find where to start, how to have those conversations, how to unpack. And so, I'm so excited to bring this conversation to you, dear listener today.

Now, before we start, I do want to just very quickly say that Jess and I are going to have a conversation about what I will call healthy relationships. We are not talking about relationships where there is abuse or manipulation or anything like that. And so, if you are in a relationship that is dangerous or harmful, we're going to link some resources in the show notes.

But I just wanted to make that very clear, that we're not talking about ending bad relationships here. We're talking about ending relationships that are no longer serving, but in which two people care about each other and just might need to move on. So, with that being said, I'm so excited to introduce you to Jess DuBose get ready for this episode of "Sorry, I Missed This." Welcome back. Here we go. Let's talk about breaking up with your partner. All right.

Hi, Jess.

Jess: Hi.

Cate: Would you like to tell people what you are an expert in?

Jess: ADHD coaching, and I wrote a book about breakups.

Cate: Breaking up. That was the answer I was trying to get from you. But it’s fine.

Jess: Got it.

Cate: You did a great job. No, it was fine. I totally threw you under the bus with that one. But just suppose today we are talking about break ups and ADHD. And I have so many questions for you. But number one, how did it come to be that you wrote a book about ending relationships with ADHD?

(02:08) Why did Jess write her book?

Jess: Yeah, this is a really great question because it's kind of multiple stories combined into one. The first one is that I was married and now I'm divorced and I wrote a book called "I Don't Hate My Ex-husband," and while I don't explicitly talk about ADHD throughout the book, it is very evident that it's there because my ex-husband has ADHD.

And so, as I was getting into like coaching and learning about who I was going to coach in my business, I had a couple of roommates who are like, "When are you doing your ADHD workshop?" And I was like, "Why would I do that? I don't have ADHD myself." And then I started to see how I was teaching them and some other people in my life about ADHD, and I was like "Oh."

I also have a degree in education. And I had a professor in college who did an ADHD simulation. I walked into the classroom like it was a normal day and things were being really strange, like the lights kept getting turned on and off. There was vacuuming in the hallway. People were like sneezing excessively loudly in class and getting up to throw trash away.

There was even an Aflac duck that kept going off “Aflac! Aflac!" while we we're trying to learn. And then the professor was going faster and faster and faster through the slides. And I remember like throwing my pen on the table and crossing my arms and being like, "I can't learn. I don't know what's happening."

Then he paused and he said, "People with ADHD, it's not that they can't pay attention, it's that they pay attention to everything." And this was like 2008, so the only thing I had known about ADHD at that point was like, can't sit still, can't pay attention. So, that reframe was really powerful for me. So, anytime I met somebody with ADHD, I would just ask them a million questions because I was so fascinated how our brains can work so differently. And as a result, I started collecting ADHDers in my life. Subsequently, my husband, ex-husband now, and we're still friends.

Cate: This is going to be such a fun episode. Are really excited for this episode because we are tackling what a lot of people I think would consider a challenging and maybe even kind of scary topic, which is ending relationships.

(04:13) How does ADHD impact breaking up?

So, my first question for someone who might be listening to this podcast and going, "How would ADHD affect breaking up? What are you even talking about, Cate?" Like, Jess, can you speak to that? Like how might ADHD impact a breakup or the end of a relationship?

Jess: Yeah, well, there's so many ways in which ADHD can affect breaking up. One of them is like rumination and overthinking. Also, ADHDers tend, this is not for everyone, but tend to be people pleasers. And so, they're just trying to make everyone happy. And ending a relationship is going to make someone unhappy, likely. And so, the "Oh I want to make sure that they're good and I'm good, but I don't know how to do that." Or "Am I just crazy and wrong?" And so there's like this overthinking thing that happens. So, we talk about like rejection sensitivity dysphoria of like, "I don't want to be rejected," but I have found that ADHDers don't want to do the rejecting either because they understand empathetically how awful it is to be rejected. And so, rejecting someone else is that much harder.

(05:19) Staying in a relationship because of people-pleasing

Cate: Well, OK, this might be a spicy hot question, but it sounds to me at least like some people with ADHD might stay in a relationship that is not serving them or is not making them happy out of that sort of fear of people pleasing, rejection sensitivity.

And so, I wonder as an ADHD coach, like how do you help someone through that? What would you do or say to that person if they were staying in a relationship just because they didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings?

Jess: Yeah.

Cate: Which I have done, by the way. I want to be so honest. Like before you even start, like I have absolutely done that. I've been in bad relationships where I was like, "No, I'll stay for like, I just don't want to hurt his feelings. I just don't want to hurt his feelings.

Jess: You cannot control someone's perception of you, period. At the end of the day, the person that you're breaking up with is going to have feelings and they get to have feelings about it. And trying to get away from the uncomfortable, what we deem as negative feelings is actually not helping anyone, including yourself. Those people-pleasing tendencies are often stemming from something you were taught, or a traumatic situation that happened in your life because it's what had kept you safe at that time. And so then our body continues to be like, "OK, this is what works to keep us safe."

But even when we're out of those traumatic things or abusive situations or whatever, we carry that into "Well, I'm actually safe now, but I don't know how to do life any different." And so, we have to go through this process of like changing the pattern because I heard this really cool thing one time. Like when we create patterns, it's like going down a path that's already been created. So, if you go down the sidewalk at the park, this path has already been created and it's easy to walk on. But when we're creating a whole brand new path, there's trees and bushes and thorns all in the way, and you have to literally chop it up to create a new path.

And you're like "It's just easier to go down the sidewalk. So, I'm just going to keep repeating the same pattern instead of forging through." So, it's a conscious effort. And the thing about this is that it takes a lot of time to, like, embody this.

(07:42) Jess' growth process: ASPIRE

I actually created this whole thing called the growth process, because what ends up happening is like when people start going down this path of growing, it's easy to get stuck or to stop because you're not seeing the progress and you're not doing it perfectly the first time.

So, you would never expect yourself to learn how to play the flute in one day. You're definitely not going to unlearn programmed behaviors in one day. When we're talking about people pleasing, that's like this thing that we've trained our being to do. And so, when we're moving away from that, there's this growth that happens. So, the acronym I created is ASPIRE.

Cate: What an acronym.

Jess: The first is awareness. Thank you. Awareness. So, you have to be aware that you're doing the people-pleasing and then you get to choose to make a shift if you want to. So like, "OK, I'm gonna not people please anymore. I'm going to start shifting." And then the moment that you fuck it up again because you're aware of the problem now, you might stop. And that's where P for Persist happens. You have to persist and keep going.

And then I is Interrupt. When you find that your people pleasing again, when you notice it, sometimes it happens in the middle of it, sometimes it happens afterwards, but then you interrupt the pattern somehow and then you just repeat this process over and over again, R, until you get to E, which is Embody. And then you will have created the desired path and you won't have to think about it anymore. You're just doing the new pattern.

Cate: It's a really useful acronym. I love a good acronym.

So, what I want to do is I want to sort of take this idea of these steps of ASPIRE and apply them to, say, processing through or moving through a relationship that you realize is maybe no longer serving you. One thing that I do want to say is sort of like going into this part of the podcast is that Jess and I are talking about ending relationships that are not working.

We're not talking about abusive relationships. We're not talking about manipulative relationships. We're not talking about things where there is like really unhealthy and really bad stuff going on. This is more for, well, just how would you sort of name that type of relationship versus like a really unhealthy relationship? You know what I'm asking, kind of?

Jess: Yeah. It's like a relatively healthy relationship and you care about one another. You probably love this person, but you just recognize that for whatever reason, you don't want to be in the relationship anymore or you're growing apart. There could be a myriad of reasons, but it's not the like abusive or toxic situation that we're referring to right now.

(10:22) Guided meditation exercise about whether or not to break up with someone

Cate: This might be a big question, and I don't know how many hours you have to answer it. What are the tools that we could use in order to sort of determine whether or not the next step is ending a relationship?

Jess: So, one of the tools that I like to use with my clients, I call them transition exercises, but they're like mini-meditation or a mini visualization exercise. So, if you're open to it, we could try one right now.

Cate: Oh, sure.

Jess: In regards to breaking up.

Cate: OK, I'm, I would just like to say on the record for any of my partners who are listening to this, we're good, but we're just gonna do it.

Jess: Because the visualization is actually going to make this clear.

Cate: OK, OK. Let's do it. Let's go.

Jess: And everybody who's listening can join us, too. If you are in a spot where you can settle in and close your eyes, I would recommend that if you are open to it.

Cate: I feel weird closing my eyes on my own podcast. I don't know why it feels like I'm being lazy or something.

Jess: Take a deep breath. Take another deep, slow breath, biggest breath you've taken all day. And as you continue to take deep breaths, you're going to tap into the energy of yourself, connecting to yourself. Settling into this now moment. And then you're going to picture your partner. See them. Hear them. Smell them. And notice how your being feels in that space.

There's no right or wrong answer. And we're not trying to change anything right now. We're just taking observation notes. Notice what's going on in your head. Notice what's going on in your chest. Notice what's going on in your gut. And then imagine yourself staying. Has anything shifted in your body? Did your chest tighten? Did you feel like you got punched in the gut? Did your heart expand? Did you smile? Just notice what's happening as you're visualizing being with this person. And staying with this person.

Take another deep breath. And now you're going to imagine yourself walking away. And this is not just walking away to another room. This is walking away and saying goodbye. The person is behind you. You're walking out the door. You said all of the goodbyes. You've already had the hard conversation. And then you're going to notice now what's going on in your body. Notice what's going on in your head. Notice what's going on in your chest. Notice what's going on in your gut.

And there's no right or wrong answer. There's no judgment of the response that your body did or did not have. Take another deep breath. And open your eyes when you're ready.

What's really interesting about this is there's probably something that shifted in your body one way or the other. But our society doesn't teach us to be connected to ourselves. And so just those little things might give you an indication of whether it's time to leave or not.

Cate: That was amazing. That was the most relaxed I've ever been in my entire life.

(14:08) What can help you through a breakup

So, then the next question is, let's say we've checked in with ourselves, we've done a lot of thinking, and maybe it is time. Maybe it is time to leave this relationship. How do we do it in a way that supports ourselves and the other person? Like, I love that you talk so openly about being friends with your ex-husband. How did you manage to stay friends? What was the process like? What can you learn from that process?

Jess: Well, first I want to say that being friends with an ex is not for every relationship. I am not friends with all of my exes, so, you don't have to be friends.

Cate: Yeah, well, setting boundaries, right? It feels almost like a people-pleaser thing to be like "Well, I have to. We have to stay friends. We have to stay in each other's lives." And it's like, no, like maybe you don't have to, and that's OK. Don't obligate yourself into a relationship that you're not actually ready for or want to take on just for the sake of like, being, quote-unquote, nice.

Jess: Exactly. It didn't start off that way. My ex, his name is Morris. Morris. Then I were not like super buddy buddy when our marriage ended. It was one of the most difficult things in my life that I've ever gone through. It was very hard. I was very angry. I was very sad. And so, there was space first, a lot of space first. But over time we started talking and it was like we could just be friends.

And it wasn't like all at once overnight. It took some time to reflect and heal and understand the things that I contributed negatively to our relationship, and I ended up writing a whole book about it and got to like process through all of that. And it was something that took a while.

But when we were going through some of the most difficult parts of the ending of our relationship, I was struggling of like "OK, I know this is bad, I know this is not good. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to be." So, I ended up, I actually ended up creating a vision board for myself because at the time while we were married, I was in South Korea and he was in the United States. So, it's not like he could see my vision board, just FYI.

But there are a few things that I put on there is what I wanted to make sure I did to feel like I put my all into this. So, one of the, a few of the things that I put in there is like, I want real restoration and transformation, it may look different than how I imagined it. Let it be so. It will get worse before it gets better. Hold on. How do you want the story to go? Is this the story of how it ends? Or is this the story of radical love, excruciating pain, unimaginable strength and steadfastness that transforms into something far beyond yourself?

Cate: I just got goosebumps. That was so nice.

Jess: Yeah. And so, I did all of the things that I felt like I could do before the relationship ended and we walked away from one another. And what's really cool is it transformed into a friendship. It wasn't an ending, even though it felt like it. That's not going to be everybody's story. But having those things in mind of like, "OK, I want to create this ending with love. I understand it's going to be painful. I understand. I'm going to have a lot of feelings. How can I support myself through the process?"

And one of the best things that I did because I was halfway across the world away from all of my family and friends, I created a group email and I sent it to everyone and I said, I'm going through the hardest time in my life. When you think about me, if you could just email me or text me or reach out to me just to see how I'm doing, I would really appreciate it. And then I had people who would send me cards or check in with me and like, it was really, really cool the way that my community showed up for me during the hardest time in my life.

Cate: That's beautiful. And I think it also speaks to the power of not trying to do everything on your own because it can, a breakup can feel very isolating.

Jess: There was one moment that was really interesting. After Morris asked for a divorce, I was supposed to be hanging out with his friends in South Korea. He knew them from college and I hadn't met them in real life, but we had like chatted over Zoom before I moved there. And so, I reached out to one of them and I was like, "Hey, this is what just happened. I think that it would actually be really cool for me to be around people still.

But I also know that I'm not going to be a good time, so I totally understand if you don't want to meet up." And they were so loving and kind and they're like, "Yes, come, we will do whatever you want if you want to play games. Or we could go get dinner. Or we could just sit and cry. Like whatever you need. Just come."

Cate: That's so lovely.

Jess: So, like, it's not easy to ask for what you need. It's so vulnerable to be in that space. But giving people that you love and trust and opportunity to show up for you could be one of the most magical things ever.

(19:32) Initiating the conversation to end a relationship

Cate: I want to talk a little bit more about specifics, especially when it comes to initiating the conversation, asking for what you need. Maybe they ask is, I would like to break up or I would like to end this relationship. I would like a divorce, whatever that might look like in someone circumstances. What are some best practices around those conversations that you can advise us?

Jess: Yeah. If you're going to have that conversation of breakup, it should not be a surprise to the other person, right? Like, if it is a surprise to the other person, that means you haven't been communicating your needs or wants or how you're feeling. If you think it might be a surprise for the other person, I would start by having conversations about how you're feeling. Not "I want a breakup" because maybe you just haven't been asking for what you need and want and haven't been giving this person an opportunity to show up for you. And that's why you're like wanting to leave.

So, just giving a space of saying, "I'm not happy, I feel really lost, I feel really sad" or whatever it is you're feeling and just sharing that with your partner really openly. Again, this is in the context of a person that is safe to talk to you about this. And then if it's not a surprise, you both know that you've been fighting all the time, it's been really tense, you've had conversation after conversation, you want to make sure that the person is in a space to have a conversation.

This is probably not going to be a short conversation. So, if they're like running in between eating their dinner and going to their pickup soccer game, that's not a good time to pick up the conversation. So, just be mindful of timing and then ask for what you want. It's really that simple. It sucks, but that is as simple as it gets.

Cate: I think though, sometimes, like, embracing the suck has to be, like because breaking up is just so hard. But you know, you have learned and you talk about like in your book, it can also be very freeing and very healthy and very clarifying and strengthening. I'm not saying it's a great thing to go around breaking up with people, but sometimes evolving a relationship in a way that maybe starts negatively can like, you know, being friends with your ex or that kind of thing.

So, let's pretend that I am a person with ADHD. Crazy, you know, like, just imagine. Can you imagine? That'd be so crazy. But so, I am a person with ADHD. I struggle with people-pleasing. I struggle with that kind of rejection sensitivity of, you know, I don't want to feel bad. I don't want other people to feel bad. What is going to be my first step in initiating a conversation to move a relationship in one direction or another?

Jess: Do you like to journal? If you do, I would say journal first.

Cate: Journal? OK. I mean. Well, yeah. And that different things are going to work for different people. Like I like to do collage. Like that's my like, new thing for like processing emotions is I make cool collages because I’m so artistic. They're terrible. They're always terrible. But I love them, it’s fine. You know, that kind of thing. Journaling, art, writing. I guess writing is journaling, but you know what I mean.

Jess: Yeah. The thing that connects you to your soul, I would recommend doing that, and making sure that you're like in a grounded place. Like you want to go into this conversation with somebody, obviously you're going to be emotional, but you don't want to be at that like height of your emotional capacity while trying to explain to them why you no longer want to be with them.

Cate: Yeah, like that emotional dysregulation component.

Jess: Yeah. And or practicing, like if you have a really close friend that you trust isn't going to just share this with that partner, talking it out with them first and having them hold the space for you to feel all of those big feelings because you don't necessarily want to make your partner receive the news of a breakup and have them hold your feelings in the process. That's not really kind.

If you can be in a space where you are emotionally regulated so that you can hold some space for that person who's going to have some big feelings and then being open to however they choose to react, maybe they just leave and they don't want to have a conversation because they need space to process. Maybe they do break down and cry, like being open to receiving however they react and knowing their reaction isn't necessarily a reflection of you. It's their own emotions that they're going through, and they get to have that emotional experience just like you already have because you made this decision.

(24:10) How to avoid the impulse to backpedal during the breakup conversation

Cate: I'm going to hit you with a really hard one. So, I'm having this conversation. The same thing. I'm like, "I want the divorce. I want a breakup," whatever it might be. I say very dramatically in this scenario. I don't know why, because we're also on a soap opera, I guess. But so, after we say this, there's that moment where your partner is going to receive that information. They're going to hear that they're going to have to process that.

How do we as people-pleasers, as rejection-sensitive people, avoid the impetus to fix and say, "Oh no, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't actually mean, I didn't actually, what I what I actually meant was that I think, you know, like therapy" or like, how do we stick to our guns when we see that there is a person in front of us who is hurting and might feel very negative feelings in that moment? How do we sit with that?

Jess: A really practical thing is make sure you have some water or something so that you take a sip of water after you say it and let them react without saying anything else.

Cate: OK. I'm going to demonstrate that for people who are watching a video, it's going to look like you're going to say, "Actually, Reginald, I want a divorce." Don't do it like that, please, dear listener. It's much better if it's a martini glass.

Jess: Yeah. But, like, doing something to make sure that you shut up after you say the thing and then take deep breaths if that's what you need to do. Take some deep breaths to regulate your own system. And I often say with people that I tend to want to try and fix, I like "They get to have their feelings. They get to have their feelings. They get to have their feelings." That's like kind of the thing that goes on and repeat in my head is like, "OK, they're allowed to have their own feelings and it's not my responsibility to fix it."

Cate: That it's so hard for me. It's so hard for me to do that. And it's just, I just want everybody to feel OK and good. But it's interesting to me if I reflect, especially like when I'm thinking about past relationships, like how often me wanting everything to be OK and wanting everyone to be okay actually looked like me not having my needs met or my needs served or heard or seen at all. And I just wonder how many people out there feel the same way.

Jess: And if you think about moments where you are having some big feelings and someone tried to tell you to stop having those big feelings and how awful it is to be on the other end of that, "Stop crying."

Cate: "Can you just calm down?" Like, "No. I can't."

Jess: Right. And so, trying to placate your partner or say, "Oh let me fix that," like that's not actually serving them. Like we are human beings who have human feelings and that's part of the experience. We kind of get sucked into this like positivity trap that we're supposed to be positive and joyful all the time. Like, no, actually, I love crying. Like this new version of me has learned to embrace the suck in such a beautiful way.

It's like, no, actually I've had a really like up and down week and on the brink of tears like literally this week, on the brink of tears like every other second. And you know what? It's beautiful. It's really cool to be able to, like, hold all of that because without experiencing the low depths, I don't understand joy. Like, we have to have both. And so, by trying to comfort or make it easier for the other person, you're actually robbing them of their own experience.

(27:37) Jess' parting advice

Cate: It's really powerful. Jess DuBose, this has been an incredible conversation and I am so grateful for you for coming on. Do you have any last words of wisdom or advice that you can give our dear listeners who might be struggling through this difficult time in their life?

Jess: It sucks to be in the process of breakup or the relationship ending or tension in your relationship. And hear me when I say I honor you in the space that you're in, it just fucking sucks. You get to be seen and heard and validated in your own feelings too, just as much as your partner that you're breaking up with. So do you. And so find the people in your life that are really good friends, that can hold the space for you while you're going through your grieving process, and honor the grieving process.

The grieving process is not linear. You're going to have some days where you're spiraling and super sad and depressed, and you're going to have other days where you feel like you're just relieved that it's over or whatever. There is no wrong way to grieve. Different people in your life might have judgments about how you're grieving. It's OK. You get to grieve how ever you want to, and whatever works for you.

Cate: Just to tack on to that, dear listeners, a reminder that ADHD brains grieve differently. We process grief in a different way, and especially when you think about our time perception differences and that kind of stuff. Like there are so many different ways to move through grief and what grief can look like and feel life. So, give yourself grace, be kind yourself, be patient with yourself.

(29:14) Where you can find Jess

Jess DuBose, this has been such a cool conversation. And I'm so jazzed that we got to talk to you today. Can you please tell the fine folks listening at home where to find you?

Jess: You can go to my website, which is just a jessdubose.com or you can go to Instagram @coachingwithjess. I'm also on TikTok and LinkedIn and Facebook and you can find all of those things on my website.

Cate: And if they want to read the fabulous books that you wrote about breaking up with an ADHD partner, what is it called?

Jess: It’s called "I Don't Hate My Ex-husband" and it's on Amazon.

Cate: You should read it. It's so fantastic. I love it.

Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email me at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org.

"Sorry, I Missed This" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli and Margie DeSantis. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Ilana Millner is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director.

For Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. I'm your host, Cate Osborn. Thank you so much for listening.

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to "Sorry, I Missed This" where we didn't definitely have to stop for 20 minutes because my camera stopped working.