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Slow processing speed fact sheet
Use this fact sheet to get and share basic information about slow processing speed. Click on the link above to read the fact sheet online, or print it out and give it to teachers, family members, and friends.
In ItHygiene battles: Tips from an ADHD expert
Listen for expert advice on ways to get kids with learning and thinking differences to spend more time on their personal hygiene. Brushing their teeth. Taking a shower. Cleaning up after themselves. What’s going on when kids seem to ignore these must-do tasks? And what can parents and caregivers do to change that? In this episode of In It, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek talk with Brendan Mahan. Brendan is an executive function coach and the host of the podcast ADHD Essentials. He offers tips and strategies to help parents and caregivers understand why some kids avoid working on their personal hygiene.We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org. Related resourcesWashing hands: How to get kids in the habit ADHD and messinessA day in the life of a child with slow processing speedBrendan’s podcast, ADHD Essentials Timestamps (01:51) Cleanliness and self-care(06:43) Executive function, room cleaning, and more(18:07) Social concerns(21:07) Reward systems(23:07) Hygiene late bloomersEpisode transcriptGretchen: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently. Rachel: Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes, and yes, sometimes failures from experts and parents and caregivers like you. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it. Today we're getting real. Gretchen: We sure are, because it's time to talk about hygiene. Rachel: Dum dum dum. Gretchen: Oh boy. Rachel: OK. Brushing teeth, towering, putting on deodorant, wearing clean clothes. What do you do when a young person in your midst is refusing to do one or all of these things? Gretchen: For lots of families, hygiene avoidance can become a major source of conflict. Rachel: And let's face it, pretty stinky. Gretchen: Luckily, we've got someone with us today who's very skilled at tackling this kind of thing. Rachel: Brendan Mahan is an ADHD and executive function coach. He has his own podcast called "ADHD Essentials." Gretchen: He's raising two teenage boys and he has ADHD, so he really gets it. Rachel: He's been a guest with us before and we're so glad to have him back. Brendan, welcome to "In It." Brendan: Yeah, I'm excited to be back. Gretchen: We are so excited to talk to you. And today, as you know, we're talking about what we can do to get our kids to stay on top of their hygiene. But it occurs to me before we start solving that problem, maybe we need to take a step back and understand why lots of kids may have trouble with hygiene and may inadvertently end up, you know, going to school being a little less than squeaky clean sometimes. (01:51) Cleanliness and self-careSo, what is it that gets us here? Why do some kids seem to have trouble with cleanliness and self-care? Brendan: Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons. And that makes it tricky because we don't know which one it is, especially when we're just sort of talking on a podcast, right? It's not as though you're a client that I'm consulting with. Gretchen: Right. Brendan: So, moms and dads who are listening to this are going to have to do a little bit of their own research and digging when it comes to their kids. They're gonna have to talk to their kids, ask them questions, pay attention to what might be happening, depending on how easy this is even to talk about. Because some kids this is not a comfortable topic. Some parents this isn't a comfortable topic. So, I just, I want to honor that element of this, that it can be more challenging than we might make it seem. In terms of reasons, one reason that jumps out that is not as obvious necessarily is just the sensory experience of it, right? Like the sensory experience of taking a shower or cleaning my body, right? Clipping my toenails, getting a haircut, that stuff can be really challenging as a sensory experience for some kids, so that might be a part of it. And if that is a part of it, we want to wonder and speculate, how can we make it gentler? One thing that I love, this is I'm going to sort of go problem solution if that's OK... Gretchen: OK. Brendan: Because that way I won't, I'm less likely to forget. But one solution that I found specifically for showering, it works for sensory stuff, it's going to work for a lot of the challenges that I bring up is making a playlist for the shower. Gretchen: Yes. Brendan: If we just let our kids listen to a playlist while they take a shower, it can make the sensory experience a little bit more gentle. This can also help support kids with timing issues, right? The kid who will take a shower, but when they take the shower it's forever. Gretchen: Yes. Brendan: Yeah. Often that's because they lose track of time, right? They just, because the sensory experience of the shower can make time get weird for neurodiverse folks. And if we have a soundtrack to our shower, we can know "All right, when this song plays, that means I'm done. Like, I got to wrap it up." Another thing that can happen is you might have a kid that will take a shower, but they never wash their hair or they never use any soap. They just stand in the shower with the water running well. Well, if you identify certain songs on the playlist as "This is the song like that is telling you to wash your hair. When this song comes on, that means you got to scrub your hair up with soap or shampoo, and then when it's over, rinse your head off." So, we can also use the playlist to sort of provide some cues at whatever level of obnoxious we need to be, right? If we need to play songs that are about hair. Rachel: I'm sitting here thinking about what songs would be great. Brendan: Yeah, your kid might be able to listen to the songs they like. They might not be able to, right? We might have to play a song about hair so that they know, and it's more obvious, I don't know. Or it might be they get a song that they like in the beginning, and then the next song is one that they're not a big fan of so that they'll kind of come out of the music and pay attention to what they need to do. So, the music stuff is, it can be a pretty big deal. Gretchen: I love that idea. Rachel: That is, yeah, that's really great. Gretchen: OK, the sensory thing, I mean, it's huge, right? For lots of kids. What might be another reason why kids might have trouble with hygiene and self-care? Brendan: It could be a control thing where you can't really make your kid take a shower. Not really. So, there might be a layer to this that is the kid needing control, the kid recognizing they get some power in this. That stuff often is about relationships, so it might be worthwhile to pay attention to how you're interacting with your kid around these personal hygiene things: brushing teeth, taking a shower. Are you doing it in a way where you're trying to wrest control away from your child and force them to do whatever it is that you're asking them to do? Are you sort of taking control in places where if someone were to do it to you, it would offend you and really bother you, but because you've got a kid, you're not seeing that it's obnoxious? A good example of this would be when the kid does the thing you want them to do, and then you're like, "Oh, you finally took a shower, huh?" Gretchen: Well, yeah. Brenda: It's like, why are you discouraging them? Like, you're not, you don't think you're discouraging them, but you're doing this like judgmental kind of finally thing that makes you a jerk. And the kid's like, "Well, now I'm not going to do it again." So, like this power and control piece, it plays out in a lot of different ways. And the more we give our kids some agency and the more we give them dignity and let them kind of do their thing and give them credit for being the wonderful kid that they are, the less this stuff is in conflict and the more likely they are to do it. (06:43) Executive function, room cleaning, and moreRachel: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And what about when it's an executive function issue? Can you talk a little bit about when that's the obstacle? Brendan: Yeah. Because that's certainly another component to this, right? Is did they lose track of time in the shower and didn't wash anything? They just stood there getting wet. Because they lost track of time and now they have to get out. You're banging on the door saying "We got to go, we got to go." And now you're like "Wait you still smell. Like you're just wet."Rachel: Or did they come out with dry hair, right? Brendan: Or dry hair, yeah, yeah.Rachel: Yeah, I've never seen that happen. Brendan: So, some of it is like that's inattention, potentially, that certainly time awareness. It's maybe distractibility. It depends, right? Like, but those are all things that get in the way, and moving on to another level of sort of self-care and hygiene, there's also cleaning of room. It happens to me, I'll be cleaning my office and I'll pick something up and I'm like, "Oh man, I remember that conference. That was a great conference."And now I'm thinking about the conference and what I did there. And it was like five years ago. And it's not the least bit pertinent to what I'm supposed to be doing right now. But my memory got hijacked and I started drifting down this rabbit hole. The same thing happens to your kids. They pick up a toy, they pick up a picture, and now all of a sudden they're wandering off somewhere in their mind. And it's not that they don't want to clean the room, it's just that they got derailed and there's no one there helping them to stay on track necessarily. Not that we need to be on top of them the whole time, but we do need to support them if it's a thing they struggle with. One thing I did with my guys when they were, they were little. This was when "Thor: Ragnarok" came out. That's how long ago this happened. I gave them a clipboard and I was like, "All right, this is what we need to do. You need to clean your room so we can go to see 'Thor: Ragnarok.'" And on the clipboard, I stuck a piece of paper and I just made a T chart. And on one side, it said on task, and on the other side it said off task. And I was like, "All I want you to do is make a checkmark on task or off task. That's it. Just put a checkmark in the right column whenever you hear Alexa say, 'How are you doing?'"And I set a bunch of Alexa reminders — I think it was like every 5 or 10 minutes, I don't remember. I made it really clear to my kids I was really kind to them. I was treating them with dignity. I was not, this was not a "gotcha!," right? I was clear on that. I was like, "This is not a "gotcha!" This is just for you to pay attention and see how you're doing. And then if it turns out you're off task a lot, what kind of figure out why, and then next time you clean your room, we'll be able to work around that. And if you're on task then great." One of the things that that activity does is it forces you to stay on task because you get a little competitive. You get a little like alert to the fact that... Gretchen: You want to say you're off, yeah. Brendan: Yeah. So, you want to check the "on task box," so just by doing it I was keeping them on task and they had one time they were off task. I was like, "Whatever." But they got their room cleaned and that was all I wanted. Gretchen: Do you think it was helpful because it was Alexa doing the reminding versus you? Brendan: Yeah, I love Alexa as a reminder tool. I don't have to remember to do it. And it personalizes the prompt. It's not "Dad's a pain in the butt and constantly asking me to do whatever it is that he is asking me to do." It's Alexa's doing it, and my kids set their own reminders in Alexa, and they've been doing that since they were like seven. They're 15 now. Gretchen: And I'm assuming for folks who don't have an Alexa device, there's other little apps and things you could download on phones or whatnot to use as like a virtual reminder. Brendan: You can just set an alarm. Both of my kids have alarms... Gretchen: Yeah. Brendan: They set on their phones for stuff, stuff that they don't want Alexa to say out loud at home when we've got friends over or something, you know.Gretchen: Right, right, that's true. Brendan: Just the alarm goes off.Gretchen: So, you brought up something really important that a lot of these hygiene issues could be about power struggles, right? And like kids wanting to make their own choices and not be told when they're going to do things, their own dignity, they're going to take care of themselves. So, that could be true with a lot of kids. And if so, as a parent, how do you pick your battle, right? Like if you list up all the things that kids are supposed to do, for example, before they leave the house, like brush their teeth, wash their hands, you know, make sure their clothes are clean and laundered, have deodorant on, how do you start to tackle this? If you don't want to be the nag, you don't want to have power struggles with them, but you would really like them to go to school with at least a few of these things done. Brendan: I would take over the things that I can take over if they need to be taken over, right? So, if I have to take over laundry for a little while, I'll take over laundry. And I can eventually pass that over to them again or for the first time. But it's not a big deal if you're doing their laundry in order to give them a little more space to take a shower, brush their teeth, that kind of stuff. I would also systematize as much of this as I possibly can if I want my kids to brush their teeth, cool, let's set an Alexa reminder that reminds us to brush our teeth. And I say us on purpose. Because if my kids never see me brush my teeth, they're not going to brush their teeth. Gretchen: Right. Brendan: So, I need to brush my teeth in front of my kids, even if I go to bed later than they do. And it might be helpful to systematize it and use the excuse of we only have one shower or two showers — I don't know how many showers you have in your house — but we have more people than showers and we have to make sure that everybody gets to take a shower. So, that means I need you guys or you child or whatever, taking a shower in the morning or in the evening, because we just need to divide and conquer. We might need to set it up that way, and that's totally fine. It might also be useful to talk to your kids about the timing of it because that's here too, right? Sometimes kids take showers at inconvenient times and then we're like, "Oh, we were supposed to be eating dinner, and why do you take a shower? Right? But that's discouraging them. Instead of being a grump about it, just go "All right, I'm really glad you took a shower. Can we try to figure out a way to do this that's not at 5:30 at night? Because the last couple of times you took a shower, it was at 5:30. That's dinner time to kind of message stuff up a little bit. When might make more sense?" We might need to talk to our kids about that, too. We might need to sit down as parents and reflect on "Does our schedule give them enough time to take a shower? And if not, how do we create that space? And when is the best time for that space to be made?" Maybe your kid doesn't want to go to bed with wet hair. And so even though you're like, "You could just take a shower at 9:30 right before you go to bed." Gretchen: Right. Brendan: But your kid who was long hair, whether it's a son or a daughter, is like, "I don't want to go to bed with a soaking wet head, because then I wake up and my hair's a mess and all this kind of stuff." Maybe in middle school, they're great at it. And then high school started, and all of a sudden they get up a half an hour earlier and now they're not showering anymore. Often this is just a problem to solve. But instead of looking at it as a problem to solve, we look at it as a moral failing or "Oh my God, no one's going to like my kid because now they're smelly. What's wrong with my kid?" and all this kind of stuff? It doesn't have to be that. It can just be "There's some problem hiding inside of this that we don't know about, and we have to talk to our kid to find it." Gretchen: Yeah, I really like that advice. I feel like parents in general go like to your kid is 15, but now you're imagining them at 25, right? You're like seeing them living in, like, this apartment that's like, filled with garbage, and they're not taking showers when you have so many years before that's going to happen, right? Brendan: Yeah, but our brains completely do that. We completely overreact and are like, "Oh my God, my kid. How are they ever going to get married if they don't take a shower? Who will put up with their stench? How are they going to have friends? Like, no wonder my kid doesn't have any friends like they don't. They smell bad." That's probably not what's going on. And they probably do have friends at school that they talk to. Because... Rachel: Who also smell. Gretchen: Right! Who also smells bad.Brendan: Who also smell, right. Yeah. Because like, let's not forget Covid happened and it impacted a lot of kids pretty significantly. And I can't ever stop saying that. Like I bring it up all the time — theoretically we're years away from that, but we're not. Gretchen: No. Brendan: Because these kids were, a lot of the kids that parents are thinking about right now were at significant developmental stages when Covid hit and it's, we're still seeing echoes of that. And some of that might be, "Hey, you know what didn't matter so much during Covid for a lot of kids and families? Personal hygiene. A lot of families didn't care because they weren't leaving the house. If your family is one of those families that personal hygiene just went off the map and your kid was like in elementary school, middle school, well, now that they're in middle school or high school, guess what? There's echoes if your kid is struggling with personal hygiene. We might need to recalibrate and have an actual conversation about this instead of just saying "Take a shower." We might need to say, "Hey, you know how we didn't really prioritize that stuff during Covid because we weren't seeing people? Well, now we're out and about and it's really important that we put on deodorant, take a shower, brush our teeth because like, smell matters again. Rachel: So, it seems like we've got kind of two different areas of concern when it comes to hygiene, right? We've got the physical health, the actual like taking care of yourself, and one that has more to do with social norms and which we've talked a lot about now. Do you find that it's more effective to lean into one of those angles than the other? Like what for you has been the best argument you can make that will get a kid to want to take care of their body? Brendan: It depends on the kid, and some of it is talking to the kid about how they feel, right? Like, "Hey, you went for three days without taking a shower. Like you haven't taken a shower in three days" — oh kid that I'm coaching in my imagination right now. I do this with young adults too, and sometimes adults. I'm just like," How do you feel?" And usually they're like, "I don't know, kind of tired, kind of gross, kind of not so great." I'm like, "All right, cool. Here's what I want you do: At some point today or tomorrow morning, take a shower." And then if it's an adult, I'm like, "I want you to text me about how you feel after you take that shower." And if it's a kid, I'm like, "Just talk to Mom and Dad, have him write it down." Something like, sometimes a kid writes it down on their own. "How do you feel?" Right? I've had kids brush their teeth and young adults too. I'm like, "Go brush your teeth and come back." And they're like, "I can't just do that. I can't just, that's a waste of time," because they're like on the clock with me, sort of. And I'm like, "But it's not that big of a deal. Like it's not going to take so long." Gretchen: Yeah. Brendan: Because some of this too is with ADHD especially, and other executive functioning areas that are challenged. That time component, that time awareness, plays a prominent role. And often we conflate emotion with time, with we have executive function challenges. If we have a lot of anxiety about something, it can feel like it's going to take longer than it actually takes. And that happens with toothbrushing. If I've got a kid that doesn't brush their teeth enough and they know it and they feel bad about it, but they also don't really want to do it because for some reason it doesn't appeal to them, then I have them brush their teeth and they're like, "Oh, that was fast." Rachel: Yeah. Brendan: And even if it only takes 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds more than you've been doing. Gretchen: Right. Gretchen: Right, right. That's true. (18:07) Social concernsGretchen: Well, I want to talk a little bit about mostly, probably this is with older kids, but we know that families often worry about their kids' hygiene, and they're not taking care of their bodies because they worry about sending them to school and having kids say things, right? About what they might smell or how they might look. And so, should we be telling our kids, like, "You know, you haven't showered in three days and I can tell you haven't used deodorant. You know, you might want to..." or should we not talk about this at all and just let it play out? Like, what is your advice when it comes to kind of like the social pressures of this? Brendan: I think you have to know how to talk about it. It's not useful to not talk about problems. Problems don't get solved if we don't talk about it. But problems also can become conflict if we don't talk about it in a way that is kind and that is caring. So, you can go over to your kid and give him a hug, right? And go, "Hey kid, I love you, but you're getting a little ripe. Just heads up, man." You know, like you can do it that way. Depending on your kid and what their sort of temperament is, maybe joking about it will work. Maybe it won't. And it's an act of love to tell them so that they can address it and they're not embarrassed out in the world. Better for them to be mildly embarrassed at home, than for them to maybe be bigger embarrassed out in the world, or for them to not be embarrassed, but also not be engaged with socially. Gretchen: Right. Brendan: And if you can have that conversation in an honest way, in a gentle way, in a safe way, then you're good. And this goes back to the whole idea of like, don't discourage the stuff you want, right? Don't be a jerk about it. Just be kind. So much of this is just being kind to our kids. Gretchen: Right. And I think even, like, sometimes just like modeling it, right? Like, I've come home from a run and I've been like, "Oh, like, I'm certainly, like, I'm sweaty today. I'm definitely going to take a shower."Brendan: And maybe if you have a partner, maybe you can set it up so it's not as embarrassing for you as a person. It's not as intense for you as a person, but maybe you have a conversation with your partner and you're like, "Hey, I'm going to go for a run and I need you to call me out on being smelly when I get back." Gretchen: Right. Brendan: And then I'll go take a shower. Because that also normalizes being called out, right? Gretchen: Right. Yeah, I don't, I don't unfortunately, I'm thinking about that scenario of like, yeah, I actually don't have to have my husband call it out because my teenage daughter will without me asking her to. Brendan: Well, and you also get the opportunity to model how you receive that information. Gretchen: That's right. Yeah. Brendan: When you receive it, right? You can say, "Oh yeah, no. Cool. Thanks for letting me know. I'll go take a shower," and receive it in a way that's sort of balanced and not overwhelmed and not having an emotional storm, just like, "OK, cool. Thanks." (21:07) Reward systemsGretchen: Yeah, exactly. You know, a lot of times we think, "Oh, a checklist will help our kids," right? Like, these are the things you need to do before school, like brush your teeth, brush your hair, blah, blah, blah. And sometimes we associate checklists with, like, maybe some kind of reward system. Does that work or no? Brendan: Don't, don't. Please, please don't. Gretchen: I wanted to ask this.Brendan: Please don't do that. That is control. That's "I'm trying to control my kid."Gretchen: Yeah. Brendan: A checklist if they want it and are finding it useful and supportive, then it's supportive. But a checklist that is a demand is control. And, ladies and gentlemen in the audience, if your kid smells, they are of the age where they want you to have less control, not more control. They're starting to pull away. It's normal. It's developmentally appropriate. It's supposed to happen. If you double down on control when they are developmentally moving to have more of their own control and be less controlled by Mom and Dad, it is not a recipe for success. It just isn't. So, you can advise. You can provide some strategies and skills, but a checklist where they can like earn money or something is not going to work. Rachel: I was just about to say that like if it is quote successful all of a sudden you need like a shower budget. Brendan: Right. Rachel: To get this to happen. Brendan: And the other side of that too, right? Is if I have a checklist and I get a reward for accomplishing the things on it, and teachers be listening to this ,then if I don't get those things I failed. I met with a school that we were talking about how the kid would come home every day and talk about how he was a failure and he couldn't succeed at anything. And the school had these checklists and they were like we never tell him he's a failure. We never say that. I was like, "Your checklists say that to him every day." Rachel: Yeah. Brendan: That's what all the research says. And it's the same thing for moms and dads and stuff at home. Like, if it's useful, great. If it's not, don't do it. (23:07) Hygiene late bloomersRachel: So, is there such a thing as a hygiene late bloomer? And if so, what would make the awareness or compliance finally kick in? Brendan: Yeah, there's totally hygiene late bloomers, like the peer pressure is one thing that is going to make that kick in. And most significantly, I am suddenly interested in boys or girls. Like once of that romantic part of the world brain kicks in, once I start wanting to impress people, all of a sudden, then the personal hygiene stuff kind of cascades from there, where "Well, if I want to look good, I should brush my teeth." Gretchen: So, there's still hope if our kids have not bloomed in that direction. You're saying there's still hope? Brendan: Yeah. Rachel: Brendan, this has all been really helpful and made me think about some things in ways that I had not thought of them before. So, thank you. Gretchen: Yes. Thank you so much. Brendan: Yeah. Thank you. Rachel: Now I got to go make my shower playlist. Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org. Gretchen: And check out the show notes for this episode where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned. Rachel: This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org. Gretchen: "In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin with additional production support from Cody Nelson and Ilana Millner. Justin D. Wright mixed the show and Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. Rachel: From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening. Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.
Slow Processing Speed and the Brain
Processing speed is a hot topic among brain researchers. There are lots of bright people who process information slowly because of how their brains work. Find out what scientists think about how differences in the brain can affect processing speed.1. Space Between NeuronsNeurons are brain cells that look a bit like trees, with branches (dendrites) and a long trunk (axon). Information moves from neuron to neuron in the form of electrical signals. These signals have to jump from tree to tree across a small space called the synapse.Some people with slower processing speed may have larger than expected spaces between neurons. This might be because the neurons have fewer or shorter dendrites. These branches play a key role in moving information from one tree to the next.More space between neurons may make it take longer for information to travel through the brain.2. Myelin CoatingSome parts of neurons are coated in a fatty substance called myelin. This coating—called a myelin sheath—helps neurons send messages quickly. The myelin layer gets thicker as kids get older, and it may start to thin later in life.Researchers are starting to study how the thickness of the myelin coating may affect processing speed in healthy kids. A slightly thinner coating might explain why some kids’ brains take longer to process information.But this is still just a theory. Doctors typically won’t order brain scans for this unless kids are part of a research study.3. Brain ChemicalsNeurotransmitters are chemicals in the brain that carry signals across the space between neurons. Think of them as messengers. Some people might have fewer of them. And some may have messengers that have trouble handing off the information to the next neuron. Both of these issues can affect processing speed.Having low levels of some brain chemicals can also cause trouble with paying attention. For kids who have ADHD and slow processing speed, ADHD medication may not improve processing speed directly. But it may boost overall work pace by helping with focus.4. Brain PathwaysNeurons that routinely work together to transmit information form pathways. These pathways are called neural networks. They’re a bit like roads. When kids are learning a new skill, their brains are turning a small road into a major highway. Processing speed depends on how efficient or organized these neural networks are.Some researchers have focused on processing speed and an area of the brain called the frontal lobes. The more kids do a certain task, the more efficient—or more densely packed—this part of the brain becomes. And they can do the task faster. Some studies have linked slower processing speed to less-organized frontal lobes.Practicing a specific skill can help improve speed at that skill. Research shows that repeating a task makes it become more automatic—and, as a result, quicker to process.
Understood Explains Season 1Private vs. school-based evaluations for special education
Why do some families pay for private evaluations when the ones at school are free? Find out in this episode of the Understood Explains podcast. families pay private evaluations ones school free? neuropsychologist? person things school psychologist can’t? Listen episode Understood Explains learn answer, involves making diagnoses.Host Dr. Andy Kahn psychologist spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. first guest episode Dr. Ellen Braaten. teaches psychology Harvard Medical School. also runs Learning Emotional Assessment Program Massachusetts General Hospital. Andy Ellen explain:How private evaluations compare school-based evaluationsWhy families may want seek one other — bothWhat look private evaluator Ways help cover cost, like asking school pay independent educational evaluationAndy’s second guest parenting expert Amanda Morin. They’ll share tips tricky topic: say child getting private testing evaluated school.Related resourcesPrivate evaluations: need knowPros cons private vs. school evaluationsNeuropsychological evaluations: need knowIndependent educational evaluations (IEEs): need knowWhy different evaluations may different resultsHow-to resources13 questions ask hiring private evaluatorHow get free low-cost private evaluation childDownload: Sample letters including request IEEEpisode transcriptJennifer: Hi, name Jennifer Atlanta. child take standardized assessments, tests, can't retake five months later. happens go school first you've school theirs, use good test, go get private evaluation, person you're paying lot money evaluation can't test themselves. hindsight, wished would done full neuro psych evaluation right beginning paid money up-front privately gotten big picture happening, taken school asked eligibility meeting. could performed whatever wanted do. feel like got backwards.Andy: Understood Podcast Network, "Understood Explains." You're listening Season 1, explain evaluations special education. 10 episodes, cover ins outs process school districts use evaluate children special education services. name Andy Kahn, I'm licensed psychologist, in-house expert Understood.org. I've spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. I'll host. Today's episode private versus public school evaluations. We're going cover key things: private evaluations similar different evaluations done public school districts, families may want seek one both, look private evaluator, ways help pay private evaluation. We're also going give ideas say child different types evaluations, say. First, let's hear another parent. Michele: name Michele live Bronx, New York. paid private evaluation. 9:00 morning 5:00. last year pandemic. sort excited day felt going thorough evaluation, going helpful. evaluation report received generic, incomplete. totally really discuss son's strengths, weaknesses, services would need. paid pocket $350. billed insurance company $6,800. Andy: It's common families think getting evaluation private clinic rather school district. Different families may variety reasons. families, child may already gotten evaluation school district, want second opinion. families may prefer control private evaluation. example, may decide share pieces information school. There lot pros cons consider. starters, private evaluations really expensive. time consuming get into. school evaluations free. families go deciding needs? My first guest today going help unpack this. Ellen Braaten associate professor psychology Harvard Medical School, executive director Learning Emotional Assessment Program Massachusetts General Hospital. She's co-author "Straight Talk Psychological Testing Kids." Ellen also mom two longtime Understood Expert, we're thrilled today. Ellen, welcome. Ellen: I'm really happy here. Andy: Ellen, let's talk little bit program run Mass General. understand specializes evaluating kids learning thinking differences. also help train psychologists part Harvard Medical School program. And — understand whole variety different assessment types there, correct? Ellen: do. neuropsychological assessments, think we'll get little while. educational evaluations, intelligence testing. even school observations, well. assess children various kinds learning differences, dyslexia, ADHD, autism spectrum, developmental issues well. Andy: mentioned several types evaluations. tell little bit one they're different one another? Ellen: let give big-picture definitions. neuropsychological evaluation typically implies number different tests measure different types brain functioning. mean attention, memory, language, learning kinds functioning. that's sort like granddaddy assessment batteries.And you'll also see evaluations label behavioral emotional functioning psychological functioning. typically means think is: evaluator looked someone's behavioral functioning, psychological functioning. Things like anxiety, depression, worries. And would think clear definitions one assessments, really isn't. Depending live, area country, sort used interchangeably. would say exceptions term neuropsychological assessment. you'll also see one assessment, called core evaluation. It's battery tests used determine whether child eligible services school. Andy: Yeah, described core evaluation, parents places might hear referred psychoeducational evaluation. there's lot jargon parents wrap heads around. also want add psychologists like Ellen use word "battery," we're referring group tests. So let give quick example. psychoeducational battery commonly includes IQ test, academic achievement testing, sometimes subject-specific tests look reading, writing, math. kind battery, might use tests answer question child learning disability, slow processing speed, trouble working memory? results may point kids one other. kids might above. OK, we've talking different kinds evaluations. people evaluations? one type evaluator type evaluation? providers offer like menu choices? Tell us little bit typically what,Ellen: Typically evaluations done psychologists, even psychologists aren't same. might hear term "neuropsychologist." That's kind psychologist typically neuropsychological batteries. School psychologists typically evaluations school system. you'll also hear term "educational psychologists," "clinical psychologists" — it's different sorts psychologists licensed different sorts testing, Andy: use word "licensed," reminds me — want mention yet another type evaluator parents may hear about, that's licensed psychologist. That's am. Unlike school psychologist, licensed psychologist diagnose mental health conditions. next detail I'm going share bit confusing, it's helpful know: schools hire licensed psychologists like school-based evaluations. psychologists school-based evaluations school psychologists. Kind confusing, know. Ellen: also, there's term "psychiatrist," lot people think psychologist, it's not. Psychiatrists medical doctors specialize treatment psychiatric issues like ADHD would treat medically, typically, sometimes therapy. psychiatrists kinds evaluations we're talking today.Andy: Good know. Ellen, there's one jargony term want us cover. it's real mouthful. It's called "independent educational evaluation," IEE. basically private evaluation, school district pays it. it's free families. We're going dig IEEs minute.
Anxiety and slow processing speed
For people with slow processing speed, anxiety can pop up at any moment throughout the day. That’s because slow processing speed can impact many activities, from taking a test to talking with friends and co-workers. In some cases, frequent anxiety can turn into a bigger anxiety problem. Here’s what you need to know about slow processing speed and anxiety, and how you can help.How anxiety and slow processing speed fuel each otherWhen any of us feel anxious, we freeze for a moment. During that time, we’re not processing information as quickly as we typically do. And we may take longer to respond. This is how anxiety can impact processing speed. Slow processing speed can also create feelings of anxiety. Imagine being a student, sitting in a classroom and taking a test. Other students are turning pages from problem to problem, while you’re still on the first page. This type of situation can create a lot of anxiety for people with slow processing speed. The more anxious they become, the slower they process and react. Signs of anxiety and slow processing speed People with slow processing speed may not always realize how, or when, their challenges are impacting them. For example, most people with slow processing speed have trouble with time perception — the concept of how quickly or slowly time is passing. They may think they have enough time to complete a task when they’re actually almost out of time. If this has happened to them often, they may fear they can’t get things done in time. Then they may decide to not even try. These challenges can lead to feelings of anxiety.Social situations can cause anxiety, too. People with slow processing speed may have trouble keeping up with what’s going on in their group of friends or with relatives. Or they may not react to things in expected ways because they process something, like a joke, more slowly. Ways to helpAnxiety and slow processing speed can be a hidden struggle. People don’t often talk about the two together. And not talking about these challenges can leave people feeling anxious about finding help. Here are ways that kids and adults with slow processing speed can minimize anxiety:Be self-aware. It’s important to recognize and respect that there’s no right or wrong processing speed. It’s just one of many differences in how we all operate. Acknowledge the anxiety. The first step toward managing feelings is to identify them. Recognizing the anxiety can help you better manage it. Build an awareness of time. Wear a watch, or set a timer, to keep track of time and develop a better sense of time perception. Plan for extra time. If you know that you or your child may take longer to do a task, adjust the timetable to accommodate that. Watch for signs of chronic anxiety. These can include physical, emotional, and behavioral signs. Use an anxiety log to look for patterns. Read about the connection between slow processing speed and executive function. And find out if processing speed can be improved.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!Tapping into the strengths of my dyslexic brain
Gil Gershoni says that everything he does is dyslexic. He founded the branding firm Gershoni Creative and hosts the Dyslexic Design Thinking podcast. Gil Gershoni is the founder and creative director of the branding firm Gershoni Creative. He says that everything he does, he does dyslexic. Gil sees dyslexia as a hyper-ability. His goal is to show the world that dyslexic thinkers can open new doors and innovate anything. Along with Gershoni Creative, Gil created Dyslexic Design Thinking, a method that helps clients see new perspectives and tell the story of their brand. Gil also hosts Dyslexic Design Thinking, a podcast that explores the link between dyslexia and creativity. Through these outlets, Gil spotlights dyslexic thinkers and ideas. Listen to this week’s episode of How’d You Get THAT Job?! to learn more about Gil’s approach to changing the dyslexia disability narrative, and how he advocates for neurodiverse teams. Related resourcesDyslexia and creativityEntrepreneurs who learn and think differently“Out of the darkness and into dyslexia” — a for/by article by Gil GershoniEpisode transcriptGil: So, when somebody asks me about my dyslexia, I'm dyslexic through and through. I wake up dyslexic, I eat dyslexic, I dance dyslexic, I do everything dyslexic, because that's the way my mind works. Eleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host. My next guest, Gil Gershoni, identifies as dyslexic, an artist, an entrepreneur, a father, a husband, and a pretty good table tennis player. Being dyslexic is in everything he does because it's how his mind works. He sleeps, eats, and breathes dyslexic. Gil is the founder and creative director of the branding firm Gershoni Creative. He's also the founder of Dyslexic Design Thinking, a methodology he uses to work with clients to see things from new perspectives. Dyslexic Design Thinking has led to a number of initiatives that are changing the narrative of dyslexia as a disability to a hyper-ability. He also advocates for more inclusive and neurodiverse teams in organizations. He credits his creativity, visual and emotional intelligence out-of-the-box nonlinear thinking, and unique ways of solving problems to being dyslexic. Welcome to the show, Gil. Gil: Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here. Eleni: So, you're the founder and creative director of a successful branding firm, Gershoni Creative. You also have a podcast called Dyslexic Design Thinking, where you talk about a lot of the topics that I think we'll cover today. Talk to me about how you think your dyslexia contributed to your success. Gil: Well, maybe the good place to start is to sort of reframe what I see dyslexia as versus what the dictionary or the common sort of misunderstood meaning of it is. Most folks that you ask, "Oh, you have dyslexia. Oh, you do the letter, you flip them, you have the hard time reading." And that's true. First thing to know is that dyslexics come in all different forms. Dyslexia is a big umbrella for different types of minds and different types of ways of processing the world around them. The symptoms of not being able to read easily or write easily really has to do with the idea that I negotiate everything. My mind looks at letters as negotiable symbols, and most people that read easily, they don't negotiate the letters. To them, they're fixed symbols that they refer to as just, you know, a string of codes and cues and things, and then they can read the word. But for me, when I look at letters, I tend to sort of negotiate them. I tend to look underneath, below, above, and I do it all at the same time. But you take the same symptoms of learning differences, and you apply it as a strength. And all of a sudden, I can visualize like nobody's business, I problem solves and come up with solutions that are not obvious to the regular or to the traditional mindset. And I can connect people and things from different places with the blink of an eye, I think immensely fast. A lot of dyslexics find their path of entrepreneurship because they can then, you know, create their own story, look at organizations' problem and in industries in a whole new way. And I think a lot of dyslexic and I think I have it similarly, I have a tremendous amount of empathy because I can relate to folks and I'm trying to listen not only to the words but to where they come from, their whole body, what's their intention. So, those are some of the things that the gift of dyslexia and the strength of it has been a huge part of my success and the way that I look at the world around me. You know. Eleni: I know that you really put yourself out there to get your first job. Do you want to tell that story and how, you know, what that taught you about your dyslexia and the kind of person that you are? Gil: I always, you know, when I first set a paper route, I figured that because I was very young and they only give me X amount of routes that I can't really, there's not a lot of room for growing that got that route. So, I said, "OK, what if I get my cousins and my brother to extend the route and then they'll work underneath, you know, under me?" And we were able to sort of grow our paper route to a much larger neighborhood. We did it for all sorts of different things. I went to all the summer camps in my community, and I must have been nine years old and says, you know, "I want to perform for the kids." And the camp director says, "You are one of the kids. What are you going to perform?" He says "No, no, no." And I had a little dove, a little, you know, in my bag. And I showed him I had a pigeon, and I did a little bit of a trick and he was like, "OK." So, he said, "Yeah, let's try one show." And I was like, "No. Either I did the whole summer camp for all the sessions, or I don't do it at all." And he was like, "I'm sure I don't know this person today, but I'm sure that he was just like, 'You got to be kidding me, man.'" This is a 9-year-old with a pigeon and a bike trying to close, you know, the whole summer season. And he gave me the show, you know, and I got my brother and my niece to participate. And we would do a 35 to 45 minutes performances twice a day at the summer camp, and we earned some decent money for it. So, I always kind of like to think about those things, you know, and take the leap. When it came to doing some branding work, I remember I was at university and I was at an administrative office and the phone rang and the person, you know, says, "Oh," and she put the person that rang on hold and said, "They're looking for somebody to design the Miami Grand Prix Auto Race. Do we know anyone?" And I says, I was just there, and I was like, "Oh, that's what I do. Can I pick up the phone?" And he was like, "Sure." So, I got up the phone and I talked to the guy and I was like, "Absolutely what it is you guys are looking for?" He says, "Well, we're going to need some merchandising. We need to do some brand the city of Miami with Toyota and the branding and all these things." And I says, "Absolutely. Let's meet and put this together." I must have worked for that gentleman for about five or six years. And through the process, I you know, I brought one of my dear friend that was an illustrator to join, another friend that was a writer, and I just created this sort of small little team. And we're just we're taking these projects on, and we would always go and meet with this guy and or the team at the time, to figure out what they needed and then sort of faked it until we made it, and we made it very quickly because we had to figure out how to deliver these things. And yeah, I think that's something that I've heard from a lot of dyslexics that we sort of marched on drum beat. We found our own paths, you know, and if I went to a proper interview and had to write something to do it, I probably would never get the job. But the fact that it just sort of I was open to it, I was at the right place at the right time, and I just kind of took the leap, you know, kind of changed the outcome. And it happens every time. I mean, everything we do it sort of starts somewhere around that place. Eleni: Yeah, I, I love that phrase "take the leap." You know, you have mentioned entrepreneurship a couple of times and obviously, you are an entrepreneur yourself, and I noticed that you had also written an article about, you know, what makes dyslexics such good, successful entrepreneurs. I would love for you to talk about like how that's relevant to your career and your success. And if you can apply some of those, you know, principles to yourself. Gil: Yeah, I love that you sort of grabbed the idea of the leap, because that's what we do with language, right? We leap over letters, we leap over ideas. You know, often, you know, it's harder for me to be linear. You have to really focus on trying to stay linear. But leaping is something that comes naturally to me. And, you know, so as an entrepreneur, I tend to sort of leap, you know, I tend to leap through ideas, I tend to leap toward direction, adapt to see the world around and connect things that maybe are not apparent to the eye. I am meticulous, you know, because I can see the details I describe before I can see the details between how this particular screw in my watch can change the manufacturing, can benefit the economics, and help us actually deliver something that weighs less so we can start a less expensive product and manage our margins, right? Like I can see all the details in a blink of an eye. And I think that that's part of what's a very keen gift of the dyslexia and been very successful for me as an entrepreneur is I see the immense details. Sometimes it's too much. So, I have to choose like to what you know, because it's just, I can see imbalances. I can see when things don't align right or don't vibrate right. You know, mental visioning is something, again, that dyslexics do really well. You know, I think probably for two points. One is that, as I said, I can see things that connect each other, but also practice over the years to memorize visual cues and where can I find them, and that sort of developed this sort of photographic memory, but also the ability, very strong ability, to mentally visualize what I'm trying to do, where I'm trying to go, how the pieces fit. And when you do that, then you have a clear map to where to go, you know, and when you have a clear map to where to go, the economy of effort is much more focused toward a desired outcome. And you can then account on it, you can measure it, you can evolve it, you can adjust it. It's only when you're not so clear about the direction that you spend a lot of energy sort of fishing to where we have to go. So, mental visioning is a really, really strong tool that as a dyslexic, I use every day. And in everything I do, you know. Eleni: I know some people in the disability community prefer like person-first language, like people with dyslexia, and then other people for their, you know, identity-first language like dyslexic people. And I've heard you use the term like I'm dyslexic and it seems that you tend to use identity-first language. I would love to hear your perspective of that. And like if there's a particular reason that that is how you prefer to identify and refer to yourself. Gil: Let's start about the idea that dyslexia didn't happen to me. I was born with it. I'm not broken, so I don't need to be fixed. My mind thinks immensely fast, nonlinearly. And as I practice to have a relationship with my dyslexia, it's my hyper-ability. So, when somebody asks me about my dyslexia, I'm dyslexic through and through. I wake up dyslexic, I eat dyslexic, I dance dyslexic, I do everything dyslexic because it's the way my mind works. I just think immensely fast and often faster than most. I practice having a relationship with that, like everybody with an amazing mind practicing their gift, their skill, their talent. Most people think it's my learning differences, but that's the least of it, and that's really the least of it. Eleni: Yeah, it's such a big part of who you are. I know that you said dyslexia is forever present, but can you give some examples of how you might apply it to, like work in your management style? Like where it comes up? Gil: So, when I was younger, I used to get really frustrated with the world around me because. It would go so slow, you know, and I would have to kind of really wait and have a lot of patience for others to literally think the answers. And I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, we already know the answer," you know, but I would get so frustrated and...Eleni: I'm laughing because I could relate. Like yeah, I get the point. I get the point. Gil: Totally. You know, and a lot of us really, you don't have to be dyslexic to relate to that. But what I learned over the years is that it was very important for me to rely on other ways of thinking, to bring my team, and work closely with my partners and clients to work together. And in order to do that, I needed to find ways to accommodate for different types of ways of thinking and different types of way of solving problems and different types of way of looking at problems. So, I've learned to, as I said a minute ago, to slow down, to move fast. But I also learned to try to create a balance. You know, identifying my strength in my weaknesses, expressing that to my team so that they have room for themselves to have their strength and differences so we can actually work as a cohesive team and understand how to integrate our thoughts to create a better outcome. We look at collaboration is working together through different lenses to come up with a much better inclusive outcome and arrive at the summit together. You know who wants to climb the mountain, get to the view and be like, "Oh, where is everyone?" You know? So, for us, it was always around kind of "How do we make it inclusive? How do we use all of our senses? How do we use different lenses to look at human experiences and how to address them?" And, you know, that's a lot of the things we do around our team and working with others to kind of bring some of that dyslexia strength to the table. Eleni: Yeah. Sounds like you really advocate for having a neurodiverse team. Gil: Absolutely. If you want to solve a problem the same way you always have, choose a person like yourself to do it. If you want to solve the problem differently, then be open-minded to bring somebody else to maybe shed light about a different angle or perspective. It doesn't mean that it's either or. It means that it's both. Eleni: You share your strengths and challenges with your team, and it sounds like you kind of model that openness. Is that something that you generally advocate for in the workplace for people to be open about, you know, differences and kind of disclose any challenges that they might be having? Gil: I lead by example. So, what tends to happen is that they see that I, you know, I talk about it. I take daily risks. I reward failing forward. I embrace experimentation. I really reward and support and believe in coachability. And when you, you know, when you experience that and you develop your own road and pursuit to your own identity as it is to you, and with the experience that you come to the moment with that. So, everybody is different, you know, and every environment is different. Sometimes it's about seeing it in others and making the environment inclusive for them so they can just relax, regardless of their differences. Everybody's where they're at and we absolutely respect that. You know. Eleni: I think a lot of these concepts that you've talked about kind of fit into this like idea of Dyslexic Design Thinking, which I know is a concept that you came up with. So, I would love for you to talk about how that came about and like what your vision is for organizations in terms of how they can incorporate Dyslexic Design Thinking into, you know, their teams. Gil: So, Dyslexia Design Thinking came about a while back when I gave a talk at South by Southwest with a good colleague of mine and a partner and at the time strategist April Durrett. And we looked at the way we work. You know, she was a strategist, a researcher, so creative and I was not, and I was nonlinear, and she was. And so, we always found ways to collaborate in ways that were different than our colleagues at other agencies. And so, we really kind of start to look at "What it is that we're doing that's different?" And we kind of start to realize it's the way that we dance together that makes our outcomes stronger. It comes from the idea that dyslexia thinking it's really around visualization, imagination, it's around problem-solving, connecting to others. As we just talked about, building a team, finding the outside-of-the-box solutions, and we look at design thinking, it's really using the methodologies of designing and making, right? So, it's around finding inspiration in the world and looking to human behavior. It's using the empathy, understanding others. So, when we combine all those types of methodologies, we realize that we really suddenly had something unique, that when we include the neurodivergent mindset, the dyslexia gift, the dyslexia thinking with the design philosophy of what we were doing at the agency, it came out, you know, just to be something that was really successful for us. You know, dyslexia thrives in the nonlinear, and instead of trying to tone that down, we found places where that really helps that process to define and discover. And that really applies to everything we do at the agency, from working with our own clients, with a team, but also with our culture, you know, because we really look at every part of stepping stone and those process with that lens and we bring a lot more to it because of our inclusiveness and our diversive thinking of how to address the problem and address human needs, you know. Eleni: When you started out in branding, did you think you would end up doing such, like so much work in the dyslexic space? Like, what is it like working in a space that is so personal to you? Gil: No, and I don't even think that I'm working in the dyslexic space right now, although I'm really involved in it. I'm doing so much about it because it's what, draws me. You know, it's like when you align and you come from a place of the heart and you work on it, then at least for me, there is a draw that happens. You know, it's not work. It's just attraction. It's just the right thing to do and I get so much out of it and it pays in space to the community and it's kind of selfish, you know, I'm doing it because I want to learn more, you know, just talking to you I'm learning so much. I'm like, you know, "How can I say no to this?" You know? So, I end up saying yes to everything. And, you know, we just finished designing the Schwab Learning Center, which is a dyslexia center that was supporting some students in Stanford and high schools around how to take their dyslexia and turn it into a hyper-ability and kind of, so it just lead you to different places to make a difference. I was always interested in the idea of the perception, you know, what happened between the subject and the object? You know, when I was a young boy, I was always interested in the idea of first impressions. Love at first sight. How do you control the, you know, how do you control that illusion? You know, so I started to read a lot around the psychology of magic and misdirection. And how can you bring an audience, a large audience, to believe that something, that you can change gravity or that you can affect, you know, the elements? And that really drew me. And I think that I was always playing with that kind of narrative. Earlier on, I didn't realize that that was my dyslexia, but I still do today. You know, I'm the first to sort of play and I'm the first to sort of change the direction. And say "We've never done it before this way. Let's go this way." And it was like, Really? "Yeah. It's going to be much more interesting." And then you kind of, it's kind of addicting. You fall in love with that. Eleni: Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. It was magic. Gil: That was such a pleasure. I really appreciate your time. This was really insightful, and I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much for having me. Eleni: You've been listening to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you. So, we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at thatjob@understood.org with your thoughts about the show. Or maybe you'd like to tell us how you got that job. I'd love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Margie DeSantis and edited by Grace Tatter. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes for the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. And I'm your host, Eleni Matheou. Thanks again for listening.
What is slow processing speed?
Slow processing speed is when people need a lot of time to take in, make sense of, and respond to information. The information can be visual, like letters or numbers. It can also be auditory, like spoken language. Having slow processing speed can create frequent challenges at school, on the job, and in social situations. For example, young kids may struggle to master the basics of reading, writing, and counting. People of all ages may have trouble doing tasks quickly and accurately. They often have a hard time remembering new information.Interacting with others can also be tricky. People with slow processing speed may stand silently for a few seconds before responding to someone. Or they might take a long time to explain something. Slow processing speed has nothing to do with how smart people are — just how quickly they take in and use information. Still, having this challenge can create a lot of anxiety and take a toll on self-esteem.
The Opportunity GapTrauma, learning differences, and kids of color
Learn about trauma and how it impacts kids of color with learning and thinking differences. Get tips on how to help kids after a traumatic event. Societal trauma, like school shootings and racial injustice, have become all too commonplace in our kids’ lives. It’s tough for families to help any child process the feelings that come along with these traumatic events. And it can be extra challenging for families of kids of color with learning and thinking differences like ADHD. In this episode of The Opportunity Gap, we explore trauma: its causes, how to identify it, and how it impacts us. Listen as Dr. Kristin Carothers, a clinical psychologist, explains:How trauma shows up in kids’ behaviorSupports for parents and educators of kids of colorTips for talking to your child Related resourcesHow to have hard but necessary conversations with your childLearn how scary news can impact kids who learn and think differentlyThe National Child Traumatic Stress NetworkEpisode transcriptJulian: Hi, everyone. It's Julian. Before we begin the episode, I wanted to let you all know that my guest, Dr. Kristin Carothers, and I talked about trauma and how events like gun violence and school shootings can impact kids in more ways than we think. I hope you all enjoy our vulnerable and transparent conversation.From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. But there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child.My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host.Welcome back, listeners. Today, we're going to be exploring trauma — its causes, how to identify it, and how it impacts all of us, especially kids with learning and thinking differences and parenting adults. Trauma has become all too commonplace in our lives and in our kids' lives. Trauma impacts all of us, and there are many forms of it that one may experience in their lifetime.There's forms of trauma that can include loss of a loved one, a tough divorce between caregivers, even an abusive living environment. Not to mention the forms of trauma we witness in the world like racial injustices, school shootings, and other violent acts. It feels nearly impossible for many of us to process these emotions of anger, grief, and anxiety. It's even harder for kids who learn and think differently.Today's episode is a great opportunity for us to shine light on the impact of trauma and identify ways we can help one another together. To help me get into this, I want to reintroduce — she's an OG to the OG — Kristin Carothers. Kristin is a clinical psychologist who's returning to "The Opportunity Gap" after doing a great episode with us last season on ADHD parenting tips. Welcome back to the show, Kristin. We're so glad you could join us.Kristin: Thank you so much for having me, Julian. I'm really happy to be here.Julian: Of course. Of course. Welcome back. Welcome back. I'm excited to kind of talk through something that is a necessary conversation. And I believe there's a necessity in being able to understand trauma and work through it.You know, as I was thinking about our conversation today, I started processing my own experiences with trauma. I haven't actually talked about this yet openly, so I want to put it out to the listeners that, as you know, I'm an assistant principal at a comprehensive high school in Philadelphia. Last fall, there was a school shooting that occurred right outside of our building. We had five students who were shot, and one of them lost their life. It was a national news story.The aftermath of being a leader in this environment has been absolutely overwhelming. Meeting with the parents, working with the student who was a victim of the shooting, working through all the different things that occurred, to just deal with all the stress that came from trying to navigate all that. And so obviously, it saddens me that not only did my students experience this, but the adults working with the students also had to deal with that.And so when we think about the idea of trauma, I can only imagine that so many of my students, especially those with learning and thinking differences, are feeling it. For somebody that learns and thinks differently, how does trauma impact them? How does it show up in their behavior?Kristin: I'm really sorry that happened. So, Julian, I know you want me to answer the question, but I want to take a minute to acknowledge you and your experience. And the process is called vicarious traumatization. Vicarious means you don't have to be present to feel the same effects of the traumatic stress. You could be someone who witnessed. You could be someone who was close to somebody who the trauma impacted. You could experience vicarious traumatization from constant like news exposure when there are traumatic events that occur.But for educators specifically, what happens is you are tasked with playing multiple roles. And in being tasked with playing multiple roles, the burden of stress can be just even heavier, right? So for, I think, first parents and educators, have to make sure you're putting the mask on for yourself, and that you're aware that you're having symptoms.Because for a kid with learning and thinking differences, yes, they're going to have struggles processing what's happened. But they really need the adults around them to be able to be in a position where they are stable, where they are cared for, where they're breathing, so they can help them breathe. I think when we're thinking about kids with learning differences, one of the things to remember is that these kids may be struggling with trying to filter out important information from extraneous information, or just things that are happening in their environment where it may feel as if they're just getting hit with one thing after another.And the demands on their attention or the demands on their ability to cope with stress can be taxed. It can get to a point where it feels like too much, even for people who don't have learning differences. And so what we really want to be aware of is how are they processing or understanding what happened? What are they doing behaviorally in attempts to manage their experience?So if a kid has ADHD or kid has anxiety or depression, they may be trying to avoid reminders. And in their avoidance, you may see an increase in behavioral symptoms — acting out. You may notice that they're talking more. Or other kids might withdraw. And so it's just important to know that we may need to slow things down. It may not be the time to process the trauma right after the trauma's occur. Routine is important, but it may be that there's a modify routine to give kids an opportunity to recalibrate into grief.Julian: Before the event occurred, we still had a large amount of students who had experienced traumatic events. A lot of the things I describe, whether it be gun violence, whether it be extreme poverty, whether it be that racialized trauma that comes with being part of a marginalized group. And we saw a lot of that. And we still see a lot of that come out in the ways you describe, whether it be kids walking the halls aimlessly. Right? They just are kind of wandering.Kids who blow up really fast for something that's a small thing — or what we deem small — they blow up. They go 0 to 100 really fast. So it's kids who are already have experienced this day to day in their own personal lives. Now, this breach of this safe space, it doubles down on it. And with the population that has a lot of learning and thinking differences, we see that deeply even now, right? Like we're deep in it. This was back in the fall, but we're still deep in, trying to unpack a lot of that.So I appreciate how you're describing how the adults also live vicariously through some of that trauma, and how we as the adults have to really make sure we take care of ourselves so that we can help assist our students.Kristin: Because you just said something. You said this happened in the fall, but we're really unpacking it now. And that's one of the things that happens with trauma. So with trauma, the impacts of the traumatic stressor may not necessarily be felt immediately after. There are some things that happen immediately, right? There's a child whose life was lost. That child is no longer there. That grief happens, right? There's five kids who are shot. Right? So physically they're having some issues.But in terms of like the things that may happen cognitively, for some people you may not see that for three to six months. And typically when we diagnose a post-traumatic stress disorder, we're not giving that diagnoses until three to six months post the event. So the fact that you've got kids who are presenting now is pretty typical, right?That first period right after the event occurs is called the acute stress period. And that's when we think, OK, this has happened within the last two to three weeks or within the last few months, and a person is really struggling. And that we think of as normative stress, and we hope that over time it'll balance out. Well, for some people, those symptoms get even stronger or more difficult to deal with as you go further away from the time of the trauma.So when you talked about kids walking the hallway, kids not being focused. It could be that some of those children who are dealing with what we call complex trauma, meaning they've experienced multiple traumatic stressors at a time, they may be actively re-experiencing aspects of the traumatic experiences they faced as a result of some trigger, or just when their minds wander.Julian: And I appreciate that a lot of the things you're saying are things that our parents listening have probably seen, especially the intersection of trauma and learning and thinking differences is starting to sound familiar. Let's move on to this idea of that intersection between trauma and learning and thinking differences.Processing and treating trauma can be challenging for any child. And parents may wonder, where do you start when helping their child manage trauma? Like, what do you do when you start to try to embark on this journey of unpacking and managing it?Kristin: OK, I'm going to start with the supports. So when a school community, family, group has experienced a trauma and they're really concerned about how to get kids the supports they need, whether or not those kids have learning or thinking differences, the best resource is the National Child Traumatic Stress Network.The National Child Traumatic Stress Network has done — has funded research from schools across the country. They provide evidence-based resources for supporting school communities, kids, parents. They provide resources in multiple languages and formats. So we know for kids with learning and thinking differences, it's really important that information is not just presented in a written form, but that there are also visuals, that there are also things that you can hear, right?And most importantly for the adults in the situation, NCTSN gives you the language to use when discussing traumatic stressors with kids. Right? They give you steps, processes that you can use to try to recover from a traumatic experience. Right? If you're a parent and you have a child with learning and thinking differences, and you're really struggling about how to get them that information that you know they need, National Child Traumatic Stress Network is gold standard.Julian: OK. So you start there, you go on the website, you find the resources that you need. But maybe you're also trying to find the therapist. And again, going back to my own experience, I know that, yes, therapy is restricted. It's an income-restrictive situation. It may be an insurance situation, where your insurance does not cover that type of therapy. Or you may not have insurance to even be able to get a therapist. And when you do find a therapist, there might be a waiting list that's three to nine or twelve months long.And so I'm wondering, is there another avenue to go to? Can school psychologists provide this type of therapy? Are there other ways where schools can provide access to therapy?Kristin: OK That's an excellent question. I really like the aknowledgement that access to therapy is restricted often for communities where there are not financial resources to go through like a private practice route, or where there's just the resources are overtaxed. So the community mental health centers are full. All the therapist who accept insurance are full.In terms of resources, there are two programs: Cognitive Behavioral Intervention for Trauma in Schools, which was created in California. It's also known as the CBITS program. And then trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy. Those are two evidence-based models that are implemented often in school and community organizations.What the program does is first teach basic coping skills to manage any symptoms. So we get active coping skills. Those are the skills that we use when we're in control or when we could problem-solve, right? We can cope actively, because we could have some control over the situation. And then we've got adaptive coping strategies. And what happens with trauma treatment is we typically focus on adaptive coping strategies first.School psychologists may not be in the position to administer these interventions because of the load, the burden that they're under to do testing, to do evaluation, to get kids IEPs, individual education plans. That's really the role of school psychologists in most school settings. What I've typically found is that guidance counselors, teaching staff are great people to do CBITS intervention. Social workers who are in the school are typically joint case management, just making sure basic needs are met.So we've got a family whose child is killed. How can we make sure that this family has the resources they need to just take care of their basic daily living needs? Then can we refer them for therapy? But first we got to just take care of their basic needs. They've lost a child. When you're in a situation where you can't find support, one of the things that I've found helpful is to reach back to those organizations that have done a lot of the work and provide free resources online. OK?So when it comes to learning and thinking differences for me, when I teach, I'm telling the psychiatry fellows that I work with, you send those parents to Understood.org. They will explain what an IEP is. They will help them to write letters to request an IEP. They will explain what learning and thinking differences are. I do the same thing when I'm talking to families who aren't able to access a therapist necessarily, saying, check out ChildMind.org. They provide lots of information on lots of different issues that children and families may face.In my experience, when you live in rural communities, you may not have access to lots of different resources in terms of community mental health. And when you live in urban communities, you often face the same challenges. What I typically recommend is finding the academic medical center. What is the hospital in your region or area that is also a training hospital? That place will usually have a resource for behavioral health.The waiting list may be long. Get on it. Time is going to pass anyway. They tell you we don't have any appointments until October. That's cool. Put me down. You keep calling back. Somebody is going to cancel an appointment. Somebody is not going to show up. If that doesn't happen, October will be there. And guess what? Your traumatic experience that you faced will still be there as well. OK? It is never too late. There is not an expiration date on traumatic experiences.Julian: And I think that a lot of this boils down to the idea of trust, where I know when we talked before with families of color trying to manage ADHD and learning and thinking differences, and understanding the process of getting resources, it boiled down to finding somebody that you trust that can help you navigate the experience. And so I think that I always, always recommend for any of our families, and especially after dealing with this event, if you're struggling to find the services you need, ask questions. Find somebody that you trust in that building and ask questions.You know the buzzword of trauma-informed education. Tell me about your trauma-informed education program in school. Tell me what resources you have available at school. I'm an assistant principal. If a parent comes to me and ask me that question, I've got to have an answer. And I got to make sure that I can speak to what are we providing, given the fact that is something that schools are supposed to provide.When we're thinking about the intersection of learning and thinking differences, especially ADHD, a lot of the things that I describe the — hallway walking, the going 0 to 100, the gazed-out looks, the triggers, the fidgeting behavior, the tears, like just all these different things. Some of those can also be symptoms or a way that ADHD manifests itself in children, too. Sometimes they look very similar, right? The symptoms of trauma, the symptoms of ADHD might look the same.If I'm a parent and I'm a parenting adult, and my child is either getting misdiagnosed and saying these are symptoms of ADHD, and I know that this is because of trauma, or my child has experienced trauma, but they're saying this is ADHD instead, how do I make sure that my child is getting what they need? What should I do? How do I approach that?Kristin: I love this advocacy question. You, as a parent, are the expert on your child, right? Always. You may not know how to treat your child medically, but you are the expert on your child. The — what we're looking for is a change in behavior that is distinct. With ADHD, previous versions of our "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual," we needed to see symptoms before age 6. With the revision of the manual. Now we see symptoms before age 12.But what I want to really point out to parents is that we are looking for changes in behaviors that are consistent across settings: school, home, social, right? If you've got a kid who up until a certain point has been doing well in school, has been following through with requests at home, things are going well at home. Socially, they're not having any issues. And all of a sudden, boom, you're noticing a shift? In my opinion, something has happened.Or if you're a parent and you know that something has happened, and that your child's behavior prior to that experience was very different, then your job is to advocate for your child. And sometimes it takes getting a second opinion when the first person won't listen.You want to make sure that when you're going for diagnostic assessment, people are actually using measures to diagnose. What's a measure? A survey, a questionnaire. Are they getting information from multiple raters? Have they asked to speak to your child's teacher? Have they asked to speak to both parents or whoever the caregivers are? Have they asked your child to independently rate their symptoms? Having multiple raters of information lets know whether or not these behaviors are consistent, or whether or not there's been some change at some point in time.We know that in certain communities there tends to be an overreliance on certain diagnoses. Right? And so we want to make sure that when we're going to treatment providers, these are providers who are aware of contextual issues that might be impacting your family. So is the provider listening and taking into account that you said, "My child witnessed a murder two years ago. Since that time, they've really struggled in school. They haven't been able to sit still. Prior to that point, we did not have these issues." Right? Context is everything.Now, if you should happen to work with someone, and you get a diagnosis or you get some prescriptions or some things that don't seem right to you, you always go for a second opinion. It's the same thing you would do if you were having a physical health problem and somebody was proposing this diagnosis or this major treatment course and you weren't sure about it. It is OK to get a second opinion. Now, in our case, it might take you a little while because it's hard to find people in the first place. But your goal is to make sure that you are getting the treatment that's indicated for your child — especially if your child has a learning and thinking difference.Julian: So again, when I think about my own experience as an assistant principal dealing with this life changing situation, like life-changing for the students, life-changing for the faculty, life-changing for me as a leader trying to lead through this situation. And at the end of the day, I think about my own children and the nervousness I had with just making sure I got home to them myself.And so since it happened, I've been working alongside our guidance counselors, our social workers, different people from around the city, to support — not only to make sure that the space is safe for our students and physically safe. We've had safety upgrades. We've had a lot of different building external things done. But also emotionally safe, spiritually safe. But also to provide a place where they can talk and they can express what they're feeling. And I say all that because as the expert, I'm very interested from your perspective, what are some concrete tips that you can give to parenting adults about helping their child deal with trauma?Kristin: So I am also a parent. I also have vicarious trauma as related to gun violence. I would say as a parent and as a professional, the advice I would like to give to other parents is to be sure to acknowledge the fact that this awful thing happened, acknowledged that it was so stressful and it was so hard and it was so scary. Allow your children to talk openly about how they felt. You've got to be able to hold that, though. You've got to be able to manage your own moods and emotions while your children share their moods and emotions with you.And so in order to do that, you really have to know how you feel. Process with your friends and other adults first, and then be ready to go in there and get with your kids. The second thing I would say as a professional and as a parent, the parents have to be ready for is the fact that they may their children may display some regressed behaviors.For little kids, they may wet the bed. They may start having nightmares and not want to sleep alone. Older kids may be really irritable. Older kids may start to not follow through with directions or rules or things that they typically would do. You might see them to stop doing, right? We want to be on the lookout for changes in behavior — using alcohol, smoking marijuana or using other drugs. These things happen, younger and younger.And so we want you to be open with your kids about the fact that what happened was awful. Want to be open with your kids about the fact that they can come to you to talk about it. And we want to let kids know that when they feel this way, they don't have to turn to something to make them numb.Often it's like we don't want to feel anything because we felt so hurt. So let's just escape. Escape actually makes anxiety even worse till it gets to the point where you are so uncomfortable with feeling that you don't know how to just feel and be OK with discomfort.I really think — I was talking to one of my clients today about attachment. Parents, it's your job to be a secure base for your kids in these times. A secure base is someone who is consistent and available. Think: you, as a parent, you are supposed to be that secure base for your kids. That stoop is always there. That tree is not falling down. We know what the rules are when we get back to the secure base. If I'm — no matter what the world is presenting me with, I'm safe here. My parent can handle my difficult emotions. My parent isn't triggered by my experience. Secure, warm, consistent. That's what your kids need. They need at least one adult who can do that for them. If it's not you, then you have to find somebody who can do that for them.Julian: Now, in a perfect world, we would have parents who are comfortable doing all that, right? We would have people that are all good to do that. But we know that there's a bunch of situations that happen, whether it be parents that are dealing with their own trauma themselves, or parenting adults that may not have the relationship or the ability to feel comfortable enough to have this conversation with their children.So let me ask, what about the folks that are not comfortable doing that? Where do we start? What do they do to get to that point where they can be that home base, as you say?Kristin: I think we have got to get comfortable with asking for help. We are constantly telling kids, especially kids with learning and thinking differences, they've got to learn to speak up for themselves, empowering them. We want them to be empowered. We want them to be empowered.But you as a parent have to model being empowered. Being empowered is knowing how to assert yourself in a situation even when you don't know what you need. So if you as a parent are like "I am not warm and fuzzy, I cannot do this. I can't tolerate my kid having this discussion." The least you can do is think who in our circle can do this? Who can help me? It is OK to ask for help.And it may not be a professional right away. It might be a family member. It might be a close friend. It might be the parent of one of the other kids. But you've got to be willing to say something, right? If you are so closed off and so scared that you're not willing to open your mouth and ask for help, how can anything get better? You as a parent have to take a risk to put yourself out there, because this could be life or death, right?Julian: And I will say that one thing about our community in general, African American communities specifically, we do a great job of finding folks to talk to. And it might not be in the formalized setting. It might be playing cards, it might be at the barbershop, it might be at the hair salon, it might be at church, it might be on the stoop, it might be somewhere.But I love the idea of saying "I need to find somebody to talk to." And once those feelings start to come out, then it may be the next step of saying, "I need to go and find some more professional help." But modeling modeling that with and in front of your children is paramount.Kristin: I appreciate that you are having direct conversations with students with learning and thinking differences about the fact that as they mature and go out into the world, having this learning and thinking difference does not have to be problematic for them. Right?Julian: And I would say the same exact thing for those of us that have experienced traumatic events and the idea that this is part of who you are. It makes it — we're the sum of our experiences. And making sure that we understand that there are ways that we can find support, there are ways that we can speak up to advocate for what we need, but ultimately to find the folks that are going to be out there to help you.Before we go, I want to share some really helpful resources from Understood that you find in our show notes. The first is an article that breaks down how to have those hard but necessary conversations. The second is an article that explains the impact of scary news on kids with learning and thinking differences. The third is a resource Dr. Carothers herself shared with us, the National Child Traumatic Stress Network. Please check these out.And remember, we can't always control life's experiences, but we can choose how we show up for one another. I appreciate all of you for listening. Dr. Carothers, I really appreciate you. Thank you so much.Kristin: Thank you so much, Julian. And I appreciate the opportunity.Julian: You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Is there a topic you'd like us to cover? We want to hear from you. Email us at OpportunityGap@understood.org.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission."The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks and edited by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. See you next time.
Signs of slow processing speed at different ages
If your child takes a lot longer than other kids to respond to directions or do certain tasks, you may be concerned about slow processing speed.Processing speed is the pace at which you take in information, make sense of it, and start to respond. This can be verbal information, like what people say. It might be visual information, like letters and numbers. Kids may also struggle with movement.Keep in mind that slow processing speed has nothing to do with how smart kids are. And kids may take a long time with one thing but be fast with another. Here are signs of slow processing speed in kids at different ages. Slow processing speed in preschoolHas trouble following directions with multiple stepsTakes a long time to copy down their nameStruggles to answer questions, especially when asked something over the phoneOften stares off into space during circle timeTakes longer than other kids the same age to figure out how to use a piece of paper and a pencilCan’t seem to get out the door in the morning because things take so long, like putting on a coatSlow processing speed in grade schoolTakes a very long time to copy down notes in classCan’t finish homework in a reasonable amount of timeHas trouble understanding what’s happening in busy settings (like on the playground at recess), because there are so many things happening at onceCan’t make up their mind quickly, like deciding what to eat for breakfast or whether a friend should come over after schoolStruggles with timed tests (like minute-math quizzes), then rushes and makes careless errorsStruggles to follow conversations and respond when friends ask questionsSlow processing speed in middle schoolHas a hard time taking notes when the teacher is speakingStruggles to follow fast-paced conversations in person or online, often missing sarcasm, jokes, and social cuesGets overwhelmed when given a lot of information at one timeOften can’t finish tests in the set time, like tests that involve multi-step math problemsNeeds more time than seems necessary to answer questions and make decisionsSpeaks slowly and often struggles to find the right word, saying things like “that thingie” insteadStruggles to finish projects on timeSlow processing speed in high schoolStruggles to keep up with class lectures and write down notesDoesn’t join in class discussionsMisses nuances in conversations and can’t keep up when friends switch topicsStruggles in classes that require quick understanding of visuals, like geography and biologyTells stories very slowly, to the point of losing track of the story while telling itSeems to have poor time management skills and is often late on assignmentsStruggles with long-term assignments, often losing track of important detailsCan’t keep up with social media interactionsWhen kids move at a slower pace in these areas, it’s easy to think they’re lazy or unmotivated. But when it comes to slow processing speed, that’s not the case. Kids who process things slowly often want to move faster. And struggling to keep up can cause a lot of anxiety. Lots of kids who learn and think differently have challenges like these. And they can improve with support. Find out what to do if you think your child has slow processing speed. And hear from a mom on how she came to respect her child’s processing speed in a fast-paced world.
ADHD Aha!What ADHD feels like and sounds like (Yinan’s story)
Voice actor and theme park performer Yinan Shentu nails what ADHD sounds like. Hear how he re-read a sentence so many times that he knew he had ADHD. What does ADHD sound like? What does hyperactivity feel like? Yinan Shentu, a voice actor, theme park performer, and world-class collector of hobbies, hits the nail on the head with his impressions and descriptions. Yinan was diagnosed with ADHD last year after starting yet another new hobby: stock trading. When reading about trading, he realized he was re-reading the same sentence seven times and still couldn’t remember what it was about. One online ADHD test later, and he felt certain he had ADHD.A lot of his childhood made more sense after his diagnosis. He would act out all the time to keep from being bored — even a clown talked to him about his behavior! Now, Yinan’s ever-changing job performing as different characters fits right into his fast-paced brain.Join this conversation between host Laura Key and Yinan. They also talk about fidgeting, and how starting a task is the hardest part.Related resourcesImpulsivity in childrenThe 3 areas of executive functionADHD and creativityEpisode transcriptYinan: I remember reading this same sentence seven times in a row and still not understanding what the heck that I just read. Just one sentence. I don't even remember if it was a short sentence or long sentence. I remember reading it, getting to the end going, "Wait, what did I just read?" Reading it again. Nope. Didn't get that. And then finally thinking, "I don't think this was normal."Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I'm the editorial director here at Understood. And as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I'm here today with Yinan Shentu. Yinan is an actor and theme park performer who lives in the Orlando area. Welcome, Yinan.Yinan: Thank you for having me.Laura: OK. I want to get started with you explaining to our audience, our listeners, what it is that your job is, because it's just so interesting. I think you should describe it as opposed to me.Yinan: It's always funny trying to describe it, because part of it is we're kind of limited by what we do in the realm of talking about what exactly it is that we do. So I'll start by saying regularly I am a performer in the theme park world in central Florida. So I perform for the Walt Disney World Resort, and I perform for Universal Orlando Resort. And I've been a character performer, actor, since about 2013 or so. And I bring to life some of the magical Disney friends that you see in the park, as well as some at Universal as well. I do several actor roles at Universal and just many, many different things over the years.Been a stilt walker. I learned to still walk at Disney and then I was a stilt walker in their shows. I was a puppeteer then a puppeteer at Disney, and then was out in L.A. studying with some really, really cool people out there as well. So I've done some puppet stuff out in L.A., which is really, really cool. One of the most challenging things I've ever done, honestly. Let's see, what else? I mean....Laura: I mean, do we need more? I mean, that's amazing. Stilt walking, puppetry, theme parks. And I'm sure our listeners have already noticed how amazing your voice is. And I know that you can't give specifics about what voiceover work you may or may not have done, but....Yinan: Well, I — something that I just did recently came out. I was in an animated, my first ever animated debut, which is — I'm still processing it. Amazing to be able to say, "Oh yeah, I'm in an anime on a streaming service that's THE streaming service for anime." So that's pretty mind-blowing and I haven't exactly processed it yet, I don't think.Laura: Seems like a fun job. I'm sure that it's also very challenging in lots of ways. But I want to use this as an opportunity to say your "aha" moment that led to your diagnosis last year in 2021 was something job-like that you were doing on the side. It was really just something that was not your full-time job. Can you tell me about that?Yinan: I guess it was kind of a hobby. I was looking into the stock market and trading and investing — and more specifically, swing trading and day trading, because I was really interested in the statistical side of that. And also for me it was — this is the shortest path between executing a decision and making money, and I'm very practical in that sense. So it was like, OK, well this is definitely not the easiest, but the quickest way. That immediate reward payoff was really, really cool.So I delved into the subject. I was listening to podcasts, I was reading books, I was watching YouTube video, I was joining a Discord community, taking in everything I possibly could. And I remember reading a couple of e-books. I finished one or two, and then the next one that I was reading — there was a bit more dry material in there. I mean, imagine that: stock trading, dry material. But for me, this was something I was still very interested in. Except I was having these moments where — and you know, with the diagnosis later I realized that I was having these moments all throughout childhood — but I would be reading the same thing multiple times. Or I'd be reading a section of a book and realizing that I have no idea what I just read. So I'll go back and I'll read it again.Or what would happen more often in childhood was, "Oh, I'm such a fast reader!" But I'm really not. My brain is just skipping parts of the text that it doesn't find interesting almost automatically. And then picking up to the next paragraph or whatever that catches my attention. And then I'll reread the Harry Potter books back when I was a kid. I would reread them all the time because like, "I don't remember this part. Oh, I don't remember this part. I don't remember this part." And then, you know, several decades later, finally being like, "Oh, ADHD, that's why."Laura: We need to unpack that a little bit. That was — I mean, because stock trading. Not at all like your full-time job, first of all. Very different world. You got interested in it. There are so many ADHD-related threads there, right? So you got into stock trading — probably, like the intensity of it, the quick payoff of it.Yinan: Well, it was during quarantine, working in a theme park. They were very, very slow to reopen. So I love being creative, and I love putting creativity into things. But then having grown up in a very traditional Chinese upbringing, I'm also pretty good with numbers and analysis. One of my good friends once referred to me as "a computer with a sense of humor," and I thought that was so accurate that I put it up on my social media, like the little description section underneath your profile picture.Laura: I love it. It's your call sign: computer with a sense of humor.Yinan: It really is. It really is. I'll wear that, I'll wear that medal proudly.Laura: OK, so you latch on to this hobby, interest, etc., but it sounds like it was actually the reading about it that started to tip you off and leads you towards getting evaluated for ADHD — the reading, and the getting distracted while reading. Is that accurate?Yinan: Yes. And getting distracted while talking, apparently, because obviously I ramble.Laura: It's all part of the show, you know, it's all good.Yinan: I explicitly remember: I read the same sentence of this book seven times in a row. And every time I would get to the end, and I would go, "Nope, not a clue what I just read." Go back to the beginning. Read it again. Nope. Not a just clue — seven times I counted. And that's the point where I was kind of like, I never really thought that I had ADHD. Growing up in the '90s, being able to catch that sort of thing was not necessarily as advanced as it is now, so.... I didn't do that poorly — just don't ask my parents — in school.So there was no indication of, oh, this kid might have ADHD. Except for like some bad behavior problems which I never really understood, but now I totally do.Laura: What led from that reading the same thing over and over again to getting evaluated for ADHD?Yinan: So it was at that moment where — and my partner and I had always kind of talked, not seriously, about, you know, you might have ADHD, you might, you know, we're both a little neurodivergent. But ADHD was never one of those things that I really I even pictured. And so a couple of days later she said why don't you take this online ADHD test that was made by somebody that, you know, wasn't somebody trying to sell something. It was just a — like a medical-adjacent sort of website or whatever.And she's asking the questions. And I'm listening to her ask them like, "Yeah. Doesn't everybody do that? Yeah. Doesn't everybody do that? Yes." And it wasn't even like — I don't like to speak in absolutes. Sometimes when, you know, those like strongly agree, kind of agree. I never really like to hit strongly agree unless I'm like 110% believing in what that is. So I never like to go to extremes. But hearing those questions was like, yes, definitely, yes, definitely, strongly agree, strongly agree all the way down.And then it was like, "Huh. I've had ADHD." And the more I thought about it in the days, weeks, months, years to come, the more I was like, oh my God, this makes so much sense. This is why reading tends to get a little difficult for me, because if I have to — especially like academic reading? Having to force myself to slow down and read for understanding and mentally not being able to. That explained a lot about being in school, being — like for example, senior year of high school. I was in all AP classes except for English. I was in ones-level English. Not even honors. Ones-level English. And I was like, I don't understand. This is very funny. Because like on the SAT, critical reading was my worst subject. And yet I want to be an actor. I really, really wanted to be an actor.Laura: You know, you don't even know. I went to journalism school. I got my master's in literature, and yet I struggle with that exact same — I don't know why. I'm such a masochist. But I totally get it. It's like I'm re-reading, I'm re-reading, I'm re-reading. OK, so you go through this online questionnaire and then you you reach out to your doctor, you get diagnosed, etc.?Yinan: Right after that, I set up an appointment with a psychiatrist. He started me on some medications that were — one was, I think, going to last for like maybe three or four hours. It wasn't a stimulant. I don't remember what it was called at this point. But I did remember feeling it working, because the first night I took it and then I went to go read again, and then I went out to the living room and I told my girlfriend I was like, "I feel slower."And it was a good thing, you know, because it was like I had been running. And someone looked at me and went "Hey, you don't have to run. You can walk." And that's what my whole body and mind felt like. And it was so. It was so strange. I'd never felt that before. I always thought what I felt was normal. We always think that our normal is normal. And then it clicked in my head: I probably need to be on stimulant medication. So I took that and it was like television static that's constantly in your brain. It's like a TV that is constantly stuck on that channel playing — I don't know if television static still a thing nowadays, but....Laura: I'm sure you can find it on YouTube, Yinan.Yinan: Yeah, exactly. If you don't know what it is, YouTube it. It's like the volume just slowly gets turned down as medication is activated. And then it's like there's no sense of I am constantly bored. I constantly need stimulation. And it was like night and day. It was so different and it made it so that I could actually focus on things that I wanted to focus on. And I hadn't felt that way since ever, I guess.Laura: Overall, I mean, I think the most important thing is that you realized that you needed support, right? And for — in your case, medication being that support. And you, like many people, went through this kind of journey with different types of medication, and I've been there myself. Someone asked me recently, what does ADHD medication feel like? And I said, "It feels like nothing. I feel — I only feel it when I stop taking it."Yinan: Exactly. I don't feel stimulated. I feel like there is a burning hole in my brain that it's always like, stimulate me, stimulate me, stimulate me. And I'm just shutting it up.Laura: How else did getting diagnosed with ADHD help you, if at all?Yinan: I said to myself — a lot — "I'm lazy, I'll never do that." Which at the time I thought, this is me being realistic. I'm just fully submitting to the fact that I am a lazy person. That is part of who I am. And maybe one day that will change.But now I realize it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I have a combination of neurodivergent traits that make executive function very difficult to recover. I think I don't have any of this energy to go do — I mean, there have been times where I just didn't feel like getting out of bed all day. Even though it was as easy as — like I would get up and eat or whatever, and then it come back and just lay down because that gave me dopamine.Laura: That in and of itself is huge. You know, it doesn't mean you're going to automatically be able to do all the things that you want to do. But just, it's a little bit of self-kindness and a little bit of self-awareness. Yeah.Yinan: Yeah. And sometimes I still can't. But it's also the fact that I've — I know that I can because it's not doing the thing. It's starting the thing. Because — I would give this advice to my partner and she would be like, "I know that a shower makes me feel better, but sometimes I just can't get myself to do it." And I'm like, "OK, go stand underneath the water and just stand there. And if you feel like turning it on, turn on the water. And if you don't, then get out of the shower." And 99 times out of 100, even when you think about it, you're like, I will, I would probably turn on the water in that case.If the idea of doing a whole task — it doesn't even have to be a big task. It could be a task that takes five minutes. And you procrastinated for two months because you think it's going to be so much worse than it actually is, which it usually, always is.Laura: Oh, totally. My husband will be like, "Why are you so stressed out?" I'm like, "Because I have to do X." He's like "X take like 5 minutes." I'm like, "Yeah, but I have to actually start it."Yinan: Getting started is really the enemy of — I know, personally me with ADHD, and I know that if something that even I enjoy feels like it's going to be a chore, it feels like it's work. Because I've stopped a lot of projects before. I used to be a YouTuber. So there's another hobby, a YouTuber for about a year. And people really like my content, and then I got burnt out on it.Laura: What other kinds of hobbies did you get into, or have you like started and stopped quickly? So we've got this — we know the stock trading. And your job in and of itself kind of allows for a lot of hobbies, but they're not hobbies because you're getting paid for them and you do them consistently.Yinan: Professional hobbies.Laura: Professional hobbies. The best kind of hobbies, the ones you get paid for.Yinan: The job really does help, because I think that when I first started entertainment with Disney in 2013, I said, I'm just going to do this for a couple of years, you know, get it out of my system and then go and get a big boy job. And every year I just kept getting something different. And there's something new, and learning a new skill, and then being asked to use that skill in a show.And then I eventually ended up leaving Disney for the first time and then going Universal and learning different stuff there as well, and realizing how much of a world was outside and then discovering voice acting. Because when I was younger I wanted to be an actor. But because I am of Chinese heritage, when I was growing up, all the actors did not look like me unless it was a very specialized role. I'm getting off topic again.Laura: But wait, I have to ask you a question. There's a reason I was smiling. I heard a clicking. Were you fidgeting?Yinan: No.Laura: Were you playing with something?Yinan: Yes. Yes, I was.Laura: No, I love it. I get it.Yinan: I was, well, I ripped apart this paper clip and I was like, well, that's useless now.Laura: I'm going to give you a glimpse into my mind as the interviewer here. I was going to talk about your hobbies and the things that you've tried. And then I was going to slowly transitioning on into hyperactivity and fidgeting. And you did that for me, so I appreciate that.Yinan: Well, I want to answer your questions, because I feel like I haven't been doing very much of that.Laura: You're doing amazingly. You're doing great.Yinan: A lot of the things that I learned were performance based because not only were they interesting to me to do, but also to — it helped with my job. I mean, I can't count how many years I've just been speaking in random accent just because they're fun. And now I get paid to do a British accent now. So that's the wildest thing that's ever happened to me.Laura: Do it!Yinan: Oh, now I'm nervous. I can't do it now — click back and go, "Oh no."Laura: I'm sorry. I actually have another question where I'm going to ask you to do a voice not from a character, but in a different kind of way.Yinan: Sure, sure. I'm less sensitive about that. Oddly.Laura: If ADHD were a voice, what would it sound like?Yinan: Oh gosh.Laura: You can marinate on that.Yinan: That's a really good question. For me, it would just be — so if you picture the static. Everything. That's kind of how I describe ADHD is just television static, but it's just that and then a little voice in your head noticing every tiny little thing that happened around you. And there's a pencil over here and there's the paper clip over there. Oh, don't forget, you didn't do the dishes. And when you get back, you need to make sure that you, uh, you make sure you sweep the ground. And that one — remember that one little spot in the, uh, in the kitchen that, well, the kitchen. The guest room — the guest room also needs some cleaning up, too. And remember, you left that thing over there when you were eating. You should really stop eating in your recording session. You're not supposed do that. Not supposed to, you're not supposed to do a lot of things in your life like, oh, I don't know, be late for work, but you're always late for work. You get the point.Laura: Bravo. That was very, very good. And sounds like me this morning.Talk to me about hyperactivity. What does hyperactivity feel like in your body? Especially as an adult. I'm going to ask you about when you were a kid, if you can remember that. But first. Because hyperactivity kind of shows up differently in teens and adults than it does in kids.Yinan: Hyperactivity. Having it as a regular thing feels like when you — maybe you've had this experience or your viewers have had this experience. Feels like when you're out with friend or whomever. And one of them just all of a sudden reaches over and forcefully grabs your leg. To stop it shaking. And you didn't realize it was shaking in the first place. And you're like, "Oh, sorry." Because you're making just a little like noise every time or whatever. That's kind of the best way that I would describe that.Laura: I had never thought about it that way. That feels like someone stopping you because you can't stop yourself anyway.Yinan: You don't even realize that you're doing it.Laura: Or you don't even realize that you're doing it. Exactly.Yinan: Like it's like a comfort thing. Like a lot of times when I've been through some rehearsals recently and they've said, when you get out there, just park and bark. They call it a park and bark because I would get out there and I would start talking and I would stroll from one side of the stage to the other side of the stage and then back to the middle of the stage. And it's like, no, just stay still, because people are getting seasick looking at you.Laura: Do you remember, were you hyperactive as a kid?Yinan: I think so, yeah. I think all the bad behavior problems — because I wasn't trying to act out, and I never really understood what people meant. And I was relatively young. I don't remember exactly how young. I remember being told by multiple people that I had behavior issues. I was told by a clown at a birthday party. For some reason, I distinctly remember that. The clown going "We need to talk about your behavior today."Laura: I'm dying. Oh my God.Yinan: And I just remember thinking, "I don't know what that means, but OK."Laura: Did you — OK. Composing myself. Did you grow up in Orlando?Yinan: No, no, no, no, no. I grew up kind of all over. I was born in Beijing, and I went to the States when I was maybe 3 and change. So I spent most of — the large majority of my life in the United States. I've lived in Long Island. I've lived in, let's see, New York, Indiana, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania. And then now I live down in Florida because I did the Disney College program and never left.Laura: And how did your your parents perceive your, quote unquote, behavior issues?Yinan: That's a good question. I don't remember. I don't actually remember, because I don't remember if it was anything more than just a oh, you need to be better behaved. But what does that mean to a kid? You don't know. I'm guessing — I don't remember any specific instances of behaving badly, but I'm guessing it was because I was always bored. And so I needed to do something to entertain myself. And when you're a kid, the line between things you should do and things you shouldn't do are kind of not really there yet. So I did a lot of things. It was like, no, don't do that, stop it. You're annoying. Stop.Laura: Did you ever get in trouble at school? I know that you have a history of getting in trouble with clowns. But did you ever get in trouble at a school event or in class?Yinan: Probably. I remember one instance where we — I was in grade school at the time. And I remember just chucking — it was like the mulch chips. We were sitting outside and I threw some mulch chips at someone. I didn't pick up a fistful and like just, you know, pitch it in their face. It was like I tossed it over at them at their leg, and they didn't like that, rightfully so. And then they told on me and I got a talking-to and I just remember — I don't know why I did it.Laura: Yeah. You were impulsive.Yinan: Which was kind of the running theme with all of the bad behavior instances. And now, years and years and years later, I'm like, oh, OK.Laura: Did you ever feel like kids treated you differently?Yinan: So in high school, I had friends that I think were friends with me because yes, they did like me, but also I was part of a speech and debate team in high school, and the speech team hung out with each other a lot. I think I said and did things quite a lot that were very cringey, were very like, how do you not know that you shouldn't say this or do this or act like that? Not very socially aware of a lot of things. But I think part of that was growing up in the very traditional Chinese parenting environment, especially with my mother, maybe in combination with the ADHD, I don't know.But when I was around people, I really, really, really wanted to impress them and have them think that I was so cool and the best and all of this. And I tried way too hard and I wasn't really socialized very well. So the things that I would think to say, I would say them and they'd be like, that didn't come out the way that — that sounds really stupid now. And I think it drove people away from like necessarily wanting to be friends with me, rightfully so. Because it was like when you say weird thing consistently, not a lot of people necessarily want that in their life, you know, especially in high school.Laura: I wonder if some people liked hanging around you for that reason too, though. I mean, just sitting here talking to you, you're so funny. The things you say are unexpected, which I love.Yinan: Yeah, that's from years and years of socialization and years of improv classes and years of working on my self-esteem. So I always said that from high school to college, I changed almost overnight. Because I got to college for the first day of music camp, which is about a week or so before orientation started. So we were there before all the other kids were, and we got to do all, you know, musical theater stuff. And it was awesome. I had none of the issues that I was just speaking about — needing people to like me so desperately that I unconsciously try to be funny, try to be cool, try to be these things. And failed miserably. And I didn't have really any of that.Just right off the bat, I was friendly with people. I met new people. Having a blank slate also worked really well. I met so many new people and made friends with almost everybody to the point where when orientation started, I was — I felt like one of the cool kids. Like I already knew everybody and I didn't feel socially anxious at all. So it was probably the upbringing and being far away from a very traditional Chinese mother was an awakening. And also not having that sort of stress really, I don't know, allowed me to blossom, if you will.Laura: I don't really know how to end this interview. I just know that I've enjoyed this interview. It feels like a moment in ADHD time of bouncing from really interesting topic to really interesting topic and having a really good time. So I guess I just want to say thank you. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story with me.Yinan: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is, I mean, I agree. This was very, very fun, if not a little scatterbrained like everything else in my life.Laura: I mean, same here, Yinan.You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at Understood.org/mission."ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine.Jessamine: Hi, everyone.Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
The connection between slow processing speed and executive function
Processing speed isn’t an executive function. But when kids have slow processing speed, it affects how well they can use their executive skills.The reason is simple. When it takes longer to process information, it takes longer to solve problems, respond to situations, and perform tasks. Learn more about the link between processing speed and executive function.How processing speed and executive function work togetherWe rely on executive skills every day to solve problems and get things done. Each of these skills plays a different role. Flexible thinking lets us change direction when conditions change. Working memory lets us keep information in mind to use during a task. And self-control lets us slow down and make careful decisions. Kids may have strong executive skills. But if they process information slowly, they aren’t able to use those skills as quickly as they need to. And that can create problems.Here’s one example. Kids who take longer to process information often respond in ways that seem impulsive. It’s not a problem of impulsivity, though. They just don’t have enough time to get through all the needed steps of understanding the problem, thinking about it, and using their executive skills to choose a response. They end up responding in a way that’s not thought out.How slow processing overlaps with specific executive skillsSlow processing speed can impact all areas of executive function. Here are some examples: Using working memory. Picture a classroom of kids who are asked to read a short story and be prepared to answer questions about it. A child who has trouble with working memory might not be able to keep the information in mind and may not be able to answer the questions. Kids with slow processing speed (but no working memory problems) might also be unable to answer the questions. But it’s not a matter of forgetting the information. It’s because the information wasn’t processed fast enough to be remembered and used.Shifting from task to task. Imagine that a child is busy playing when it’s time to get ready for school. The child’s parent says it’s time to put the toys away and get dressed.A child who has trouble with flexible thinking might find it painful to switch from play mode to school mode and get very upset when asked to.A child with slow processing speed (but not flexible thinking challenges) might seem to dawdle when it’s time to stop and get ready. But it’s not a problem with being able to switch gears. It’s a problem with being able to do it quickly.Paying attention. The teacher is giving a lesson in fractions at the front of the room. A child who has trouble focusing might get distracted by something outside the window and miss what’s being taught.A child with slow processing speed might also stare out the window and miss what’s being taught. But it’s not a matter of focus. The child just can’t keep up with the teacher’s pace, and zones out because of it.Sometimes it’s hard to know what’s causing the challenges. Is it a matter of skill or speed or both? The only way to know for sure is through a full evaluation. Learn about classroom accommodations for slow processing speed and for executive function challenges.
In ItTo disclose…or not?
Who do you tell about your child’s learning and thinking differences? When? Does the explanation depend on the situation? And how are you preparing your child to own those ongoing disclosure decisions?Who do you tell about your child’s learning and thinking differences? When? Does the explanation depend on the situation? And how are you preparing your child to own those ongoing disclosure decisions?This episode, hosts Lexi Walters Wright and Amanda Morin tackle these questions. They talk with families whose experiences range from triumphant to cautionary — and in-between. You’ll hear from a mom whose daughter’s very public dyslexia disclosure turned her into an author. And from a parent whose son’s refusal to disclose cost him a scholarship.Advertising pro Wilson Standish shares why he’s still cautious about disclosing. And expert Manju Banerjee, PhD, gives tips to help parents with the sometimes-scary task of passing the torch to their young adult kids.Related resourcesTips for talking with family members about your child’s challengesPros and cons of disclosing learning and thinking differences at collegeEpisode transcriptAmanda Morin: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, writer with Understood.org and a parent to kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi Walters Wright: And I'm Lexi Walters Wright, community manager for Understood.org. And we are "In It." "In It" is a podcast from Understood for Parents. On our show we offer support and some practical advice for families whose kids are struggling with writing, social skills, motor issues and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: And today we're talking about disclosure: who we tell, when we tell, and how we tell when it comes to our kids' learning and thinking differences. Lexi: So Amanda, will you kick us off: What is disclosure? What do we mean when we say the word "disclosure"? Amanda: Disclosure is a really fancy way of saying "talking about it." So when we're talking about our kids having learning and thinking differences, it's who do you tell that to? Disclosure is deciding to tell family. It's deciding to tell teachers. It's deciding under what circumstances it's a parent's job to talk about it, under what circumstances you throw that to your child to make that decision. So disclosure is a really big idea, right? It's something we talk about a lot when it comes to having kids with learning and thinking differences, because there are some circumstances where parents don't necessarily want to talk about it. And then there are other circumstances where it's really important to talk about it. Lexi: And so when does disclosure come up? Can you give us some examples of when you need to make the decision as a parent as to when or not to disclose? Amanda: Often it comes up in school first, because when a child's having trouble in school or struggling or needs a little support, it's time to start talking about it with teachers so they can help you figure out what support your child needs. And sometimes it's about coaches in the community, it may come up as well. And then I think as our kids get older, they need to start thinking about if they're going to disclose or talk about this with their friends. For example, a kid who struggles with reading may want to say something before they go out to a restaurant, because reading that menu may be a little tough for them too, right? Lexi: Well, you know, we recently got a voice memo from a mom that I think so beautifully gets at how daunting this process of disclosing can be, especially when it's new. Emily: Hi. My name is Emily. I am very new to all of this. I got my son's testing back recently, and they give you this big stack of papers that's all his information. And I was absolutely paralyzed. I felt like I did not know what to do. I didn't know who to talk to, who to go to, what my next steps were. And the background on this is that I am also an educator, of almost 20 years. And I have taught kids with various learning and thinking differences and I always thought, "Well, if, you know, one of my kids ends up with an IEP or issues in the classroom, I'll be one of those great parents that, you know, takes a deep breath and knows exactly what to do. And the fact was that I didn't, because it was my child. And I was scared and nervous and alone. And I just completely shut down. And I had the reaction that I didn't want to have, which was, "This is nobody's business but ours. This is our family. This is my child. Nobody needs to know about this, and — not nobody, like teachers need to know about this, right?” But not, like, general people. And that really shocked me and surprised me that that's sort of how I felt. Amanda: So we asked all of you how disclosure has worked in your family. And one dad told us he falls solidly into the Don't Tell camp.Dad: There are times when I will tell people, obviously, like teachers or people who interact with him heavily. But it's not something that I will say to someone up front. A lot of it has to do with the social stigmas that reside around the various things like ADHD, autism and learning disabilities that people have and how they interact with the people who have them. So I want my child to be treated as any other child is. And as a result, I don't tell people up front about it. So that they don't attach those labels to him. They may choose to avoid or shun him because, you know, “I don't want to have to deal with a child that has that condition.”Lexi: So clearly, decisions around disclosure are deeply personal for both parents and for kids. Amanda: Right. And on one end of this, you've got parents like the one we just heard from. Lexi: And on the other end... Ayelet: OK, so my name's Ayelet. I have three kids. My middle one, Leia, is dyslexic. She's currently 13, and she's in eighth grade. She loves anything expressive — everything from art to dancing, speaking — anything that allows her to express herself somehow is what she enjoys. Amanda: When we spoke to Leia's mom, she was at home in Staten Island. And she and Leia were both just getting over the flu. Lexi: Leia's dyslexia wasn't diagnosed right away, though Ayelet and her husband knew something was up during the first few years of school. Ayelet: So she was able to tell me everything about school: "Oh, in science we did this, then in this class we did that and this was so cool." And she would very happily discuss whatever she was learning. So we knew she was learning, but she was failing everything. So it never occurred to me that she couldn't read. But it dawned on me one day when I came home and I saw she was attempting to do homework. I guess she was kind of -- my husband was home, and he was trying to help her with it. But what I had walked into was like a screaming match: "I just can't do it. I don't know what to do." And she's hysterical and he's, like, not yelling at her but, like, you know, that frustrated parent, like, "Just copy what I wrote down." And I'm standing there and it was like, like, a moment where all time stood still. You know, I felt like I stood there for 20 minutes and it was literally three seconds. And I said, "Oh my God, my kid can't read." Lexi: And in that moment what, like, what did that mean to you? Ayelet: I think I had a lot of thoughts at the same time. I distinctly remember saying, "How could she make it to fourth grade and nobody picked it up?" And I'm a teacher. It just, I felt so upset, angry, you know, how could I not know? Things like that. Lexi: Ayelet and her husband took Leia to get an evaluation. Ayelet: And every item that identifies dyslexia, she hit it. She hit every single one. Amanda: But this isn't a story about dyslexia. Lexi: Right. That was last episode. Amanda: This one's about how kids and their families figure out when it makes sense to share a diagnosis and when to keep it private — whether it's dyslexia or a different diagnosis. For Leia and her parents, the process of figuring that out started pretty much the minute they walked out of the doctor's office after getting the diagnosis. Ayelet: We live on Staten Island and we had taken her to Manhattan for the evaluation, for the neuropsych. Just where it was, we ended up taking an express bus. It was just easier than driving and finding parking. So we had like an hour bus ride home. So we were on the bus, and she was like, oh, you know, "I get it, but I'm really embarrassed." She's like, "Do I have to tell people?" So I told her it was up to her. I said, you know, "There's positives to being open about it, and then there's maybe negatives, too. But you have to do what feels right for you, and you may want to keep it quiet for now and then later tell people." So she got very, very quiet and didn't say anything for a few minutes. She was just kind of looking out the window. And she said, "OK, I need to think about it." And I said, "OK." Lexi: Fast-forward a few weeks. Leia hadn't said much more about the diagnosis. She was just kind of doing her own thing. Ayelet: So she had been journaling for a while I guess. She had asked me for a folder. I got her folder. She filled it with paper and she would walk around the house, like, hugging it. And she would keep it in her room, and I just didn't question it. Because, you know, kids: stickers, papers, folders, you know. But after maybe three weeks, two weeks? I don't even remember. She's like, "Guess what?" I said, "What?" She goes, "I wrote a book." I said, "You did not." She goes, "No, I wrote a book. I really did." And I said, "OK, can I see?" She's like, "No. But can you type it for me if I read it to you." And I said, "Sure." So we sat at the computer. I typed, she read. And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, "OK, wow."Amanda: In those pages Leia and her mom typed up, she had written about her experience with dyslexia, and how what she understood and how she performed in school never seemed to match up for her. Leia also wrote about what she was learning about dyslexia. And she wrote about how she could stick up for herself when her teachers didn't seem to get it. Lexi: So Ayelet printed out the pages, and then Leia pasted them into a blank notebook and added illustrations. Amanda: And those illustrations are so cool. They're cartoons about her thought process. They're cartoons about what it was like to be in school — really neat. Leia thought other kids, kids like her, might like to read the book, and she asked her parents if they could publish it. Ayelet: So we decided to just go ahead and do it and see what happens. Amanda: And that's how Dyslexic Renegade was born. Leia: I'm Leia, 9 and in the fourth grade. I wrote this book when I found out I was dyslexic, because I thought there was something wrong with me — and there isn't. I don't want other kids to think like I did. "Dys" means "difficulty" in Greek, and "lexis" means "words" in Greek. So all it really means is that one person has a hard time with anything that has to do with words. But it doesn't mean we aren't smart. Lexi: Leia's self-published book has had hundreds of downloads. She now hosts a Facebook page for kids with dyslexia that has over 10,000 followers. Ayelet: People started like emailing, messaging, calling, like on Facebook. People everywhere were like, "Oh my God, this is amazing, like, this is just like my kid!" And, you know, and we were like, "Oh wow. All right." Lexi: Hey, it's Lexi, and from time to time we're going to try something new on "In It." Starting now. The response to our show so far has been amazing. We're so grateful to you, our listeners, for the reviews you've left and the friends and the teachers you've told about our show. We love hearing that "In It" feels to so many of you like you're hearing your own family's experience described. So we want to share some of the incredible messages you've recently left us about our first episode: "Why We Cry in IEP Meetings." Caller 1: I get very emotional easily — very easily. And I can feel it coming on, and I'm always thinking, "No, don't do it, don't do it." I just can't help myself. I think a lot of the crying comes from a place of — see, I'm going to get emotional just talking about it. But anyway, I think I just get to thinking about my son and all the kind of "what ifs" and "what could have been." So sometimes that does make me a little sad. Caller 2: So at the beginning, I didn't cry at IEP meetings. But now at the end, I've been through so many that sometimes I can't help myself. Caller 3: Being an educator, I know, I know what to ask. I know what to look for. Even still, you know, I think about all the families who just go along with whatever is said in those meetings and don't ever feel like they need to question or really advocate for their kids because they really don't understand, you know, all of the lingo and all of the language and, you know, it can be intimidating even for me being an educator for, you know, over 15 years. So anyhow, it gets emotional. It sucks to feel that your kid's not being fully supported. Lexi: And one more thing: Since this episode aired, we've created a new Understood video with Dena Blizzard, the mom in Episode 1 of "In It." Dena talks more about her daughter's learning differences and the path to understanding that anxiety was at the center of many of her struggles. Check out that video at U.org/dena. That's the letter U, dot o-r-g, slash d-e-n-a. And now back to the show. Lexi: So as we've seen in Leia's case, learning how to share this thing about herself with other people happened really quickly. But Amanda, I guess I'm curious: Is that typical? Amanda: I don't know that it is typical. It's really amazing to me that Leia not only wanted to talk publicly, but she wanted to talk very publicly about it all of a sudden. Sarah: Hello. This is Sarah from Omaha. One time where we did not disclose information about my child's disability was with my middle son who was going off to college. We chose not to disclose his diagnosis as twice exceptional with ADHD and slow processing. He was able to get by in high school because of how smart he was. But once he got to college he really struggled. After failing English 101 twice, his self-esteem plummeted and we finally got him on medication and started with the disability services at his college. However, his last term as his freshman year came around, and he had an instructor who wouldn't work with his disability services that were put in place, and he ended up losing his scholarship. Had we disclosed his disability to begin with, I think that his freshman year of college would have been a completely different experience for him. Lexi: Wait. So Amanda, you send your kid off, maybe to college or to live independently or whatever, and you're still not out of the woods with disclosure stuff? Amanda: Nope. That's especially because that's the point when you're really passing the torch, if you haven't already. Because out in the world when your child's an adult, legally an adult, it's going to be up to them to figure out how and when to talk about these issues. And the question is, how do you do that? Manju Banerjee: Prepared scripts don't work very well. Lexi: Manju Banerjee is the vice president of educational research and innovation at Landmark College, a school specifically for students who learn differently. And she says going out into the world on your own brings a whole host of new challenges around disclosure. Manju: You are trying to present your best persona, if you will, to be attractive to others. And you're starting to think about life mate. You know, it's the adult stage of one's life. So at that stage, do I have to disclose? "Well, you know, I have learning differences," or "I process information slowly," or "I can take you to a date but I need more time to calculate the tip." It can be really embarrassing. Amanda: In some cases, Manju says, our kids may decide not to disclose. And we have to let them make that choice. Manju: I think one of the things we need to do and get talking about disclosure, we, as adults and educators, really need to put ourselves in the shoes of the young adult or the child and understand where that reluctance is coming from. And you can't force self-advocacy. You really need to create a safe environment where self-advocacy can be practiced organically and have successful moments. Amanda: So let me ask you a question as a parent. I can create the safe environment in my home, right? And I can create it around them. What do I do to make sure that they are ready to be in a world that may not feel as safe to them? Manju: I think as parents the hardest thing for us is to let go — is to let go that end of the rope, because we've created that safe environment at home. We know when to jump in and help out. But I think it's important for us to have that confidence, that I've built a solid foundation. And there will be occasions where my son or daughter will do things that are absolutely illogical, that make no sense, and that's doomed for failure, and just have to stand back and let that process happen, because that's how we learn. Wilson Standish: Let me just ping the group and see if I can push it back a little bit. So hold on, give me one second. Lexi: Wilson Standish has very much launched into his adulthood. He works in the advertising arm of Gimlet Media and if like me you're a podcast junkie, Gimlet probably is familiar. He spoke to us from his office between meetings. Amanda: Wilson has dyslexia, but it's not something he shares with people right off the bat, especially at work. First, he says, he needs to build a relationship. Wilson: Definitely. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't want my first impression to be "dyslexic" for some reason.Lexi: Right. So it's not like you put it at the top of your resume as “special skills.”Wilson: No, no, not at all. Lexi: That said, once he's had a chance to build up some trust, he's OK if his dyslexia comes up organically. Wilson: It usually comes before I have to do a brainstorm with a group and write on a white board. And that's when I say it, and it's only after I feel like I've earned the trust of people, so they're like, "Oh it doesn't matter, we can trust him. He's smart, he does great work." And those are the moments where I feel comfortable doing it. Lexi: And what do you say? Wilson: You know, I kind of just say, like, "Hey, I'm really dyslexic," and I just move on. And I don't really, like, dive into it, because my hope is at that point that the work that I've done and I've produced — it doesn't even matter to them, the fact that I'm dyslexic. And it only comes up at times when I'm writing emails, and I'll totally miss something that, you know, can sound really bad. Like one time, I was writing, we, you know, I used to run the Innovation Group and I was writing about a hackathon that we're trying to have with the company. So I wrote this email to like 30 people and the subject said "Hackathong." And everybody, you know, had a lot of fun with that. And it's those moments where, you know, it's embarrassing, but you — just by getting ahead of it and owning it, I've found, you know, that it's OK. And then knowing that I have to just work a little harder to make sure that I outshine those moments. Lexi: Oh Amanda, hackathong! Amanda: I know. We all make those mistakes, right? Autocorrect is our enemy at that, and we laugh. But if like Wilson you're someone with a learning difference, those moments can feel so much bigger. Lexi: Do you feel like you've been more forthcoming in your professional experiences than your personal life? Wilson: Yeah, I think so, just because, you know, in my personal life I don't really have to write in front of people or read aloud. And those are the moments that are kind of the most intimidating. It only really comes up now when I'm, you know, driving or giving directions and I mix up my left and my right. Amanda: I do that too. Wilson: Yeah. No, I don't really, you know, I don't really think about it as much. And I just, I guess, like, well I know it's present and I know I have to work through it continuously. It's something that hasn't necessarily, like, been a defining thing that I think about all the time. Lexi: Ayelet, can you tell us, what advice do you have for parents and for kids who are just starting to find their way when it comes to sharing their learning and thinking differences? Ayelet: Huh. I don't know. I think it's so different for everybody. For us it works to talk about it a lot, and often, and just put it out there because it is what it is. You know, when you talk about it, you are also teaching other people who may not be aware and people may show you their ignorant side. You have to not take it to heart. Amanda: Ayelet's right. Choosing when and who you disclose to is different for everyone. Lexi: Which reminds me: Remember Emily, that great mom who we heard from at the beginning of this episode? She was the one who was drowning under the pile of papers from her son's diagnosis. She was not sure if she wanted to tell anyone about it. So, she actually had more to say on this. Emily: So I've been taking baby steps, and I've had some really great friends help me, let me practice with them and saying, “Oh this is really helpful for him when he gets anxious, or this is a little thing that we do to help him in certain moments.” And it's felt empowering and made me feel less alone, and has helped him feel like he knows himself better. Because at the end of the day, this is really about him gaining the skills and confidence to move through the world, and I need to be there for him. Thank you so much. That’s it. Bye.Amanda: You know, as another mom who's done that, that's a big deal. Like she's not 100 percent comfortable she's ready to talk about it yet, but she's doing it for him. That's a big step. Lexi: So Amanda, I just love that Emily mentions practicing with a friend, which just seems like such a solid way of making this more comfortable for families. But I imagine that there are so many instances in which families have to make the call on the fly. And in some of those cases, do you maybe not disclose, period? Amanda: Yeah. I mean there are times — we heard from the dad in the beginning of the show who says he doesn't talk about this, and that's totally fine. There are all of these variations, right Lexi? I mean, Emily practices with a friend, but we don't know who else she's told beyond that yet. And that's totally fine. Lexi: And are there circumstances in which you still will keep this information private for your family? Amanda: I'm not telling you that. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood for Parents. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi: We would love to hear how your family has tackled the disclosure minefield. Go to you U.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find free resources. That's the letter U as in Understood, dot o-r-g slash podcast. Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. It's a way to start talking about disclosure. Share it with a friend or just a parent at your bus stop. You can also go to Apple podcasts and rate us, which is a great way to let other people know about "In It."Lexi: You can subscribe to "In It" on Apple podcasts, follow us on Spotify, or keep up with us however you listen to podcasts. Between episodes you can find Understood on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and YouTube, or visit our website: U, that's a letter U, dot org.Amanda: And come back next episode where we'll be talking about why math struggles can be so much more than anxiety about messing up your times tables.Lexi: "In It" is a production of Understood for Parents. Our show is produced by Blake Eskin of Noun and Verb Rodeo, Julie Subrin, and Julia Botero. Mike Errico wrote our theme music, and Laura Kusnyer is our director of editorial content.Amanda: Thanks for listing, everyone. And thanks to those of you who sent in voicemails and voice memos. And thanks to all of you for being in it with us.
Classroom accommodations for slow processing speed
Students with slow processing speed can struggle in class in lots of ways. That might be trouble keeping up in class, participating in discussions, or staying focused. Processing speed on its own may not be enough to qualify students for an IEP. But that doesn’t mean they can’t use classroom accommodations anyway. Here are some strategies teachers can use to help kids with slow processing speed.Giving instructions and assignmentsCheck in from time to time to make sure the student understands the lesson.Give the student extra time to respond to questions in class.Give simple written directions, and speak slowly when giving oral directions.Use graphs and other visual aids and explain out loud what they mean.Provide a checklist or rubric at the beginning of the assignment with details about how the project will be graded.Find ways to engage the student’s interest in lengthy assignments. (This can help motivate the student to finish the assignment.)Shorten repetitive assignments. Example: Let the student do only the even-number problems.Reduce the need for handwriting. Examples: Use fill-in-the-blank questions or allow work to be done on a computer.Limit the amount of time spent on daily homework assignments and have parents or caregivers sign off on any unfinished portions.Grade the student work based on mastery of information rather than on work completed.Introducing new concepts/lessonsGive an outline of the lesson or notes for students who don’t write fast enough or who have trouble multitasking.Use text-to-speech software and books with audio to help the student to see and hear the words at the same time.Use multiple means of presentation to reinforce new concepts.Addressing trouble with focusUse nonverbal signals to engage a student who seems to be losing focus.Encourage the student to email questions or concerns later if it’s hard to come up with them during class.Provide a quiet space for tests so the student can talk through the questions without disrupting others.Give extended time for tests.Offer a chance to improve grades by letting the student correct test answers and explain the process used to correct them.Reduce distractions by using blank pieces of paper to cover all but one of the questions on a worksheet.Encourage active reading by letting the student use a highlighter or sticky notes.Building organization and time management habitsCreate daily class routines and stick to them.Break down big assignments into smaller pieces with more deadlines.Show what a completed project looks like before the student begins.Establish clear starting points for tasks rather than just giving a due date.Give the student an extra set of textbooks to keep at home in case they’re often forgotten at home.Keep in mind that having slow processing speed has nothing to do with how smart students are. It’s just that the pace at which they can take in, respond to, and use information may be a little bit slower. Accommodations give them the support they need to show what they know.What’s next?Do you have a student who you think has difficulty with processing speed? Explore a one-page fact sheet to get basic information on slow processing speed.Are you wondering why your child doesn’t always struggle with processing speed? Find out how processing speed can vary from task to task.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!ADHD hyperfocusing on a career in visual effects
Jo Shaffer, who has ADHD, learned a technical skill through hyperfocus and obsession. Listen to Jo’s career advice and unique claim to fame.Sometimes, people with ADHD can thrive in jobs that require hyperfocus. That’s true of Jo Shaffer, a self-taught visual effects artist who says working on motion graphics is a perfect fit for how their mind works. Learn how Jo gets paid to come up with fun, computer-generated graphics for companies and advertisers.Jo also shares their thoughts on the connection between having ADHD and being nonbinary. The answer might surprise you.Listen in. Then:Watch a video of one of Jo’s computer-generated effects. Check out ADHD memes created by Jo.Episode transcript Eleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou, and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.Our next guest creates the motion graphics you may see in videos, visual ads, and GIFs. Jo Shaffer is a visual effects artist from Madison, Wisconsin. Jo: Yes.Eleni: Jo identifies as nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns. Jo also has ADHD. Welcome to the show, Jo. Jo: Thanks for having me. Eleni: I don't know why I struggled saying Wisconsin.Jo: Yeah. People are mystified in New York. People think that it's like, I don't know. It's some truly, some faraway planet. People have laughed at it before. So I've got a thick skin about it. Eleni: Is that the best way to describe your job?Jo: Yeah. I work as a visual effects artist, and mostly I have been working on commercials. So that would be anything from, if there's a logo on a billboard that someone isn't cleared to show in their commercial, I will take that out. Or if they just want, like, to add a whole billboard in, or if they want an explosion, blood, smoke, rain, all the stuff that you can't do in real life essentially, or didn't have the money to do.Eleni: So would I have seen any of your stuff anywhere out in the world?Jo: Yeah. So I would say my current claim to fame is that Tina Fey show "Girls5Eva." I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, but I, uh, did some object removal on the opening credits. So it's not like I even added something you'd recognize, but I cut everybody out of the background so that stuff could go in behind them.Eleni: Nice. Well, I love Tina Fey's and that is a great claim to fame. Jo: Yes. Yeah, it was very exciting. And I was shocked that they hired me. Like, why me, isn't there somebody else for this?Eleni: When I heard "motion graphics" or like "visual effects," I really associate that with drawing. Is that a fair assumption? Like what is it really about? How would you describe it? Jo: Yeah, it's interesting because I actually got into visual effects or just — I would say maybe "computer-generated imagery" is maybe the best umbrella term — but I got into it because I wanted to be able to paint hyper realistically or draw hyper realistically, but I just felt like I couldn't do it. I felt like I was not able to, I guess, put the time in and the idea of getting to automate visuals without getting into all the weeds of the technical stuff, being able to have a means of computing lighting scientifically rather than approximating it, was really interesting to me. And I still think drawing has been extremely valuable and I definitely use it and just enjoy it. But I view it almost as an alternative to sort of classic visual arts.Eleni: So when you said you really wanted to be able to do hyper real things, but you felt like you couldn't really do it, do you mean through like more manual drawing?Jo: Yeah. Yeah, totally, like the classic stuff that you need to do, like rendering the human form, really understanding value. And obviously all those things still come into play. But with drawing or painting, it's all kind of channeled through your hand, which I found that difficult at the time. This was also before I started taking meds for ADHD. So I think since then I have kind of come back around and come to appreciate the discipline of that a little bit more. But it just took so much repetition, which is silly because I have now spent years and countless hours practicing this other thing.Eleni: What is it about visual effects or computer-generated graphics that you think is less repetitive or more appealing than drawing?Jo: Being able to just press a button and get a result felt like alchemy, honestly. Like you would mess with all these settings, get all these ratios, right? And then press a button and something would come out and you could be surprised by it. And I like that it incorporated some randomness and some chance, and I like that it felt more interactive and frankly more like a video game. Eleni: It's interesting. Yeah. Cause I never really thought of it like that. It gives you more of like that instant satisfaction. Or even just like more of an instant feedback. It's like you do a thing and then you see the output more quickly.Jo: And it's more surprising too, I think, which I appreciate.Eleni: Yeah. So it sounded like you had an interest in like creating those types of effects. But how or when did you decide to pursue it as a career? Jo: Yeah, it was a very slow process because I didn't think that I could actually do it or get paid for it, but I really just couldn't stop doing it. I guess, hyper fixation. I just would spend like every night, till 4 a.m., just messing around with it. And that honestly took like two or three years until I was finally like, oh my God, I think I could maybe get paid for this. And I'm still, frankly — I mean, it's the type of thing where once you are in, you can really make a good living. And there's a lot of work because it's a pretty specialized field, yada yada, but in my experience, It took a long time to really like, get to the point where I could be paid for it. Eleni: Yeah. So you said you were just messing around in your own time. So would you say that you were self-taught?Jo: Yeah. I took one class in this program called Maya, then everything from there is self-taught. I really wish I had watched more tutorials at the beginning. Cause I think I could have cut about a year down from how long it took me to learn everything. Again, chalk that up to ADD. But I have a very specific self-directed learning process that is not always the most efficient, but it's the way I live my life, I guess.Eleni: How did you go about learning?Jo: Very haphazardly, I would say. I mean, I think the way people traditionally recommend it is to just really focus on function, which is to say, you know, pick something that you need to do and then learn how to do everything specific to that. Part of what took me a long time to learn about these programs is that they are so open-ended that even the people making them don't really have a great idea of like everything you could do in it.So I was looking, I think, a lot of the time for just like a really ironclad way to do something. And I found it really liberating when I heard somebody compare these effects more to recipes. Like, you know, you have all these techniques and ingredients that will probably ultimately create this kind of a fact.And so I think that's something that suits me, is just the fact that no task is ever quite identical. It's always informed by just what's in the image. Eleni: Yeah. That's pretty cool. So there's an element of experimentation. And as you said earlier, like surprises and you know, the ability to be creative with it and kind of figure it out each time on your own. That's really cool. Now, I believe you went to film school before deciding to focus more on visual effects. Tell me about that.Jo: I went to film school and I thought I would be an editor just because it was the trade, I guess, that I thought I could do, what I had been doing. Film was always kind of my main thing that I really wanted to do. The first, like real visual effects I did was I wrote and directed a feature film, which is sort of making the rounds through festivals and stuff now, and we just couldn't afford visual effects. So the first shot I ever started working on was a gigantic storm cloud. And I was surprised, I think, by how much it still kind of plays by the rules of traditional filmmaking stuff. It's just applied through a very specific kind of process. And I think this is part of what I enjoy about visual effects, is it doesn't really matter how you did it, if it looks right. It's all about perception, I guess, and about understanding how much people perceive and what they're more likely to miss, or what their eye's going to gravitate towards and knowing how to lead an eye or disguise something from someone's eye, which is all stuff that a filmmaker's doing.Eleni: Yeah. So you talked a little bit about hyper fixation. Do you want to talk about any other ways ADHD shows up in your work? And also perhaps like how it makes you good at what you do?Jo: I mean, I think it's a tricky combination because on one hand, I think it makes it very easy for me to jump into something and to feel comfortable with a little bit of chaos — just because there's so much technical stuff, but it's never quite gonna work right. So I don't know if this is true for all people with ADHD, but for me, definitely, having a little bit of chaos going on, I've found that it's like ADHD, it makes it helpful for me to just really like be able to switch between things quickly and keep adjusting my plan. Because in visual effects, like the person you're working for almost never knows how visual effects work. So like there's always going to be so much miscommunication and it's so much on you to be able to adapt because they don't know what they want, but they know what they don't want. And they'll fire you if they get what they don't want. So, yeah, I think that flexibility is really useful. I think obviously time management is maybe the negative end of that or the thing that I've really had to be militant about, because if you hyper fixate too much, you can literally spend infinity on this stuff. And there's just a point of diminishing returns, I suppose, which you have to know when that point comes.Eleni: Those are both themes that we've heard a lot from people. So this idea of being comfortable with chaos has come up quite a bit, actually. And this idea of being comfortable with a lot of like change and ambiguity and having a flexible plan, you know, all of those things come up a lot. And maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to me. Like that's what I love about this podcast, that everyone can really share their unique experience and how it applies to them. Because of course not everything applies to everyone. But it's also really fun when we hear these commonalities too.So what about when you were growing up? Like how did some of the challenges with ADHD come up for you?Jo: I think the biggest thing with regard to that, that I find myself just like ruminating on the most maybe, is what I thought math was like as a kid. The way that I think — at least I was taught math and I would venture to guess most people — it almost reminds me of learning Latin from like a strict German school in the late 1800 or something. Like it's just purely about memory.And I don't know, I had such a narrow idea of what math was. And my dad sent me a picture of like a math notebook I had the other day and it had all these spirals in it. Which at the time was doodling, but I just found it funny because now I view something like a repeating spiral pattern as math. Procedural geometry is a huge part of what I do.Eleni: So interesting.Jo: Yeah. Like manipulating patterns and understanding how layers of shapes can create different things and sort of what mathematical formulas, you know, are good for different things. Like noise functions, for example, which I don't even fully understand, but it's basically just a way of creating, like static would be one example of noise. But there are all these different types of noise functions, which are used to create smoke and atmospheric effects and stuff. And I just didn't know that math is just life and that it works so well with art. I thought it was like calculators. Eleni: I love that because I think so many people have that assumption that math has like no real-world application. Even though you didn't like it at school, you found a real-world application for it that you actually really enjoy.Jo: Yeah, and I wish I'd paid more attention. Like trig, for example. If I had paid more attention to trig, I could do all this crazy stuff. I mean, I'm in the process of relearning it now, but that would be so helpful in like creating a mountainside and figuring out where to place the rocks, because I could tell where to place the rock based on the angle of, you know, stuff like that.Eleni: Yeah. I feel like you blew my mind a little bit there and I hope other people have been able to make that connection, too, because I love thinking about how math and science and art can actually be really intertwined a lot of the time. Jo: Yeah, totally. Eleni: I know that you said you spent a lot of your time, like really hyper focused and sometimes that means that you can kind of spend infinity time on things. Are there other ways that you also express yourself?Jo: Yeah, my partner makes fun of me because I mostly only do this stuff, but I'm trying to think of what I do outside. Part of what I like about this job is I can listen to audiobooks during it. I have trouble reading, but for whatever reason, my brain absorbs audiobooks really well. I'm very interested in Cold War history. And state crimes, I guess like crimes against humanity committed by the United States government and the NATO bloc of countries. So it sounds like I'm joking, but I swear to God, this is a huge part of my life. Most of my life is spent listening to audiobooks about state crimes and state terror perpetrated by the United States — while doing visual effects.Eleni: Oh my God. I love hearing about people's obscure interests. But also like you kind of just breezed over that, but how cool that you can listen to audiobooks and be doing something while working, like simultaneously.Jo: Yeah, it's like the best part of my job, you know.Eleni: It's so cool, you know. Jo: It's so good.Eleni: I love that. Well, in terms of other interests, I know you're also in a band. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Jo: Yeah. I play bass in a band called the Ophelias. We just put a record out called "Crocus." I just really enjoy it being the thing that is just pure instinct in my life. There's not a lot of thought involved and like on tour, I mean, I'm in the process of trying to figure out a good way to be able to be on tour and do visual effects stuff, which is kind of tricky because you need so much processing power.But for the most part, I would say it's a really nice counterbalance, just because you really can't think too hard about it all the time. I mean, some people would probably disagree, but for me, I really love that it just comes and you don't have to be analytical.Eleni: Interesting. Yeah. It sounds like you can be really in the moment with it.Jo: Yeah. Definitely. Visual effects is so laborious. Everything has 10 steps associated with it. So it's nice to just be able to pluck a string and a note comes out.Eleni: So at the start of the interview, I introduced you as nonbinary in terms of gender. Do you think there's any connection between your gender identity and your ADHD?Jo: I don't know if there's a direct connection I could draw. I mean, I think it all comes together to feed into like a world view. I'd say, mostly it just makes me angry more than anything. Just rage. Honestly. I wish I had a better, happier answer, but yeah, I just mostly feel angry about it, just at the world.Eleni: Do you want to say a little bit more about where the anger is directed or what you're angry about? Jo: Yeah. No, it's a good question. It's hard to unpack and I mean, clearly I'm still figuring it out. I keep forgetting how old I am. I'm 25. I mean, I think it's so easy if with ADD stuff you're just very often put in a position where people think that you're less competent than you are. I mean, that's part of why I like visual effects is because I know I'm competent. And I know that I even know what I'm doing. So it feels like a place where I feel in control. I mean, I think people get upset when they feel like they don't have control, right? And with gender stuff, it's more just like fear of getting killed on the street. And that just transmuting itself back into rage. I don't think that's going to happen to me. I think that's probably a little out there, but it could. If I'm wearing feminine clothing, I definitely am bracing to get hit over the head. So yeah, it's hard to know where to put that stuff.Eleni: And it's definitely not an unfounded fear. We know gender violence is rampant in this country.Jo: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's funny. I thought that would be more of a big deal traveling around on tour. But I found that people who work at gas stations are generally very friendly and understanding, or that's probably the person you see most on tour. They've always been very nice to me. The only time it was weird was somebody told us not to stop at a town in Utah because they said we wouldn't be safe. But other than that, it's been good. Eleni: Well, in that instance, that might've been a helpful advice. Jo: Yeah, no, I'm glad. I would definitely rather hear that than not hear that.Eleni: Well, thank you for sharing all of that. And the reason that I asked too is, you know, we talk a lot about layered identities and they often do connect in some way if people feel like othered or different.Jo: Yeah, totally. Everybody has like a mound of stuff they have to figure out about themselves to feel like they can live in the world without exploding. And it's like one more thing to figure out. Eleni: I think I just have one more question. And given we had that whole conversation about being self-taught, do you have any advice for people that may be not interested in pursuing like a more traditional or structured education and have like some sort of interest that they would like to build on or pursue?Jo: Definitely. There is obviously like a class element to this stuff, because you need time. And time it takes money. So I feel maybe a little bit sheepish offering blanket advice, because I know that different people have different amounts of time. I would say specific to visual effects: Don't pay for anything unless you're positive you have to. You can do it for free, at least for starters. It truly is essential because you cannot do this without the software, and the software is way too expensive. So you got to figure out how to scam it a little bit, a few free trials in a row or whatever. If you were pursuing the self-taught route, you're probably an obsessive type and that's good. It's good to be obsessive about the right things, but definitely just have a little part of your brain that's like, what's the broad plan here? What am I trying to learn this month? What would be good to learn next month? If you even just pay a little bit of attention to the structure of how you're learning stuff, then you just let your obsession fuel the day-to-day stuff, you will be surprised how fast you learn in my experience.Eleni: Thank you so much for joining me today, Jo. Jo: Yeah. Thank you for having me.Eleni: This has been "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about it. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/thatjob to share your thoughts and to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash that job.Do you have a learning difference and a job you're passionate about? Email us at thatjob@understood.org. If you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job, we'd love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Thanks again for listening.
The emotional toll of slow processing speed on my daughter
My daughter had a “fake” evaluation in the eighth grade. One of my friends was taking a graduate course on evaluating for learning differences and used my daughter as a practice subject. But while the evaluation wasn’t real, the test results were.My daughter’s language scores were off the charts. That didn’t surprise me. She had always gotten great grades in English and social studies.What did surprise me was her exceptionally low score on processing speed.I’d never even heard of the term slow processing speed, let alone that my child struggled with it. I’d also never heard of kids who were twice exceptional. But that term applied too. Once I knew, though, a lot of things about my daughter started making sense.Even though she’s a great reader, it took my daughter forever to get through a book. She spent hours doing homework, even in grade school. And she hated playing timed board games. If it involved an hourglass or a timer, she just wouldn’t play. Now I understood.But I didn’t yet understand something much more important: the emotional impact this was having on my daughter.A “real” private evaluation turned up the same results as the “fake” one. But despite her low processing scores, we couldn’t get our daughter extended time on tests at school. She wasn’t eligible for special education, and the school wouldn’t give her a 504 plan because her grades were good.We were disappointed and frustrated, of course. How bad did her grades need to be in order to get support? Without the extra time, she had to work extra hard to keep up. But she was driven to do well at all costs, and she mostly managed to do that.By high school, however, it became harder for her to compensate for her processing issues. She couldn’t finish her classwork or exams on time, and her grades slipped. Every time she had a low test score, I told her it was OK, and that it didn’t mean she wasn’t smart or capable. Her response was to work even harder the next time.I took that as a sign of resilience. It wasn’t.In her junior year we took a holiday trip with our large extended family. My daughter had to bring her books with her. She worked during the vacation and on the plane ride home. After we landed, the whole family stood together in the baggage claim area, laughing and talking about how much fun the trip had been. But when I looked over at my daughter, I saw she was crying.She hadn’t gotten through her work and would have to stay up all night to finish it.I felt terrible and worried. I also felt guilty. I had seen the toll her processing issues had taken on her grades, but not on her. I knew she was anxious about school, but I didn’t think it was serious. I had confidence in her. And I assumed that she did, too, despite her struggles.At the end of that week, my daughter started seeing a therapist. She learned relaxation techniques for when she became stressed or overwhelmed. And she began to understand that her processing issues had nothing to do with her intelligence or her ability. She learned to let go and not worry as much about grades and scores.In the end, her slow processing speed didn’t get in her way. She did well in college, working at her own pace. It may have taken her longer to get through assignments, but she took periodic setbacks in stride.After graduation, when she was (anxiously) job hunting, my daughter said something to me out of the blue that I’ll never forget. “You know,” she said, “I’ve finally realized that nobody cares if I’m not perfect.”She’s right. Even if it sometimes takes her longer to get things done, she’s smart and resourceful and does great work. And yes, she’s resilient. Most of all, my daughter understands that she’s measured by more important things than how fast or slow she is.Read about the connection between slow processing speed and anxiety. And hear from a mom who learned to respect her son’s slow processing speed in a fast-paced world.Any opinions, views, information, and other content contained in blogs on Understood.org are the sole responsibility of the writer of the blog, and do not necessarily reflect the views, values, opinions, or beliefs of, and are not endorsed by, Understood.
In ItDyslexia: More than mixing up letters
When kids have trouble learning to read, families may wonder about dyslexia. But what exactly is dyslexia? And what are the signs to look out for? When kids have trouble learning to read, families may wonder about dyslexia. But what exactly is dyslexia? And what are the signs to look out for? In this episode, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek talk about dyslexia with Dr. Gabrielle Rappolt-Schlichtmann. Gabbie is an education scientist who works to make education more inclusive to kids and adults who learn and think differently. She’s also dyslexic, and the parent of a third grader with dyslexia. Tune in to learn some of the early signs of dyslexia, and why it’s never too late to get a diagnosis. Find out how to work with your child’s school to get support, and what reading strategies work best. Plus, hear why Gabbie would never want to be “cured” of dyslexia, even if she could be. Related resources What is dyslexia?7 common myths about dyslexia How to teach kids with dyslexia to read The legit fear behind “Please don’t call on me to read”Episode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs…Rachel: …the ups and downs…Gretchen: …of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor raising two kids with ADHD. Today, we're taking a deep dive into dyslexia, what it is, what it isn't, and how to support kids who have it.Gretchen: And we have the perfect guest here to help us with that. Dr. Gabrielle Rappolt-Schlichtmann is an education scientist and the executive director and chief scientist at EdTogether, an organization that works to make education more inclusive to students who learn and think differently.Rachel: Gabbie is also someone who herself has dyslexia, and she's a mom to a kid with dyslexia. She talks about all that with so much insight and clarity, we're so happy she joined us for this conversation. So, Gabbie, welcome to "In It."Gabbie: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk with you both today.Rachel: Well, to start off, I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and in particular your work as it relates to kids who learn and think differently.Gabbie: Sure. So, I'm an applied developmental psychologist, and I've been working with schools and teachers, education professionals, museums — basically, wherever learning happens — to help them to be inclusive to kids who, and adults, who learn and think differently in designing learning environments.And I want to start off by saying, even though I work with and think about and design environments for all kids who learn and think differently, dyslexia has a very close place in my heart because I'm dyslexic and I am also the parent of a third grader who is dyslexic and has ADHD. And so, I do think about that. I think a lot more in my personal life and my personal experience in addition to working with schools and in educational environments.Gretchen: So, as you know, we invited you here today to talk about dyslexia. So, let's start with the basics. Gabbie. I think probably the most common myth we hear when it comes to dyslexia is that it's about reading and writing letters backwards. Is that what dyslexia is?Gabbie: No, definitely not. So, when we think about dyslexia, it really doesn't have anything to do with flipping letters around or anything like that. It's a brain-based learning difference that affects reading, writing, and spelling. So, people who have dyslexia have difficulty basically working with language is how you can think about it. So, they may have difficulty isolating the sounds within words or matching letters to the sounds. Like, for example, you might have difficulty mapping the sound "to" to the letter T or the sound "tho" to the letter Th. And when you have difficulty with that, it can really affect your ability to deconstruct words as you're trying to read. And that affects reading, and it also affects your ability to spell and produce language as you're trying to write.It tends to run in families, like in my family. So, my son's dyslexic, I'm also dyslexic, and my father as well. And it really has nothing to do with intelligence. It's really important to understand that. It's just really about how your brain handles language as it relates to text, but it doesn't have any meaning to how intelligent you are.Rachel: So, were you kind of on the lookout for it, knowing that it runs in families and knowing that you yourself have it, you know, so with your kids, was that something that you kind of had an eye out for?Gabbie: Definitely. And my son is actually my second child, but we were on the lookout for it, and they popped up for us when he was in preschool. It felt like he was randomly — when we would talk about the alphabet or letters, or I would read to him — it almost felt like he was sort of guessing or randomly saying what letter went with a sound. So, I kind of had a clue that he was going to have some difficulty. And then, in fact, by the time he got to kindergarten, he was really struggling to get anything out of the reading instruction that was happening in his classroom.Rachel: You know, one common belief is the idea that you can't diagnose a child with dyslexia until they're in elementary school. Is that true?Gabbie: No, absolutely not. In fact, oftentimes we refer to that as the sort of waiting to fail approach. So, absolutely, by the time kids get into elementary school, when they're in the thick of reading instruction, you're going to see difficulty if a child is dyslexic. But way before that, when they have first exposures to anything about mapping the symbols of language, to the sounds of language, you know, doing things in a sequence, really that idea of thinking about working with language, if they're having difficulty with that, it's a clue that they might have difficulty. In fact, you can screen kids as early as preschool for difficulty with that.And with my son, because he was having difficulty, I can remember — he's in third grade now — but we went in to see his teachers for a conference and, you know, they were like "Kids develop at different rates and let's just give him time." And I thought, you know, there's no harm in having direct, explicit reading instruction, right? So, let's just do it. Why wait for him to fail, you know? And I did actually have to I don't know if this is the right word, but escalate it to the head of the preschool, because I was getting a lot of pushback from the teachers. And when I talked to her, I just said, "You know, I'm dyslexic, my dad's dyslexic. He's not responding to reading instruction. I don't think any kid gets sad or upset from getting competence with a skill. So, let's get him some, you know, instruction." And they did. They were very responsive up to that.Gretchen: I like that idea. I like to say, "You know what? No matter what, this is confidence-building, right? To get these extra skills in place." So, you know, you mentioned a few of the things that families or teachers could be looking for when kids are really young, you know, thinking about a parent at home, what would be a very like easy sign to maybe bring to the teachers and say, hey, could there be something here?Gabbie: Sure. So, I think a lot of times as parents, we do nursery rhymes with kids or maybe singing songs with kids where there's rhyming. And if you're noticing that your child's having a lot of difficulty with rhyming or sort of not picking that up or seems like they're guessing you might probe like in a fun game, you know "What rhymes with cat? I'm thinking sad," you know, sort of going back and forth. And, you know, a lot of kids have difficulty with these things. But if it's popping up along with when you're sort of introducing a letter to a child or something like that, and maybe they have difficulty following directions in a sequence or something like that, that would be a sort of constellation of things to raise to a teacher.Rachel: So, is there an optimal age for a child to be evaluated for dyslexia or, you know, I mean, we talked a little bit about it can be as young as preschool, but is there kind of like an ideal age or is it really about when you see the signs?Gabbie: Yeah, I think the answer to that is it's never too late. Absolutely not. And I'm a good example of that. I didn't have a diagnosis until I was in ninth grade.Rachel: Oh, wow.Gabbie: And I'm a very good example of, you know, a girl who's not identified because I was doing well enough. So, the teachers were sort of saying, "Well, it's fine. This is just who Gabby is. And then I had an English teacher actually in the ninth grade, who was like, "Wow, I would really.." based on our classroom discussions and, you know, how smart this teacher thought that I was, he expected more from my writing, And so, he asked to see a rough draft in my handwriting, and the spelling was so bad, he was like, "I can't read this. Let's figure out what's going on."And then I was finally evaluated and I got my diagnosis. And it made a huge difference to me in terms of the direct instruction — really remedial instruction that I had around reading specifically — but also the accommodations that I received in school, which allowed me really to excel in areas of interest like science and math. And in fact, I went on to college and majored in neuroscience and my job now it's like 80% reading and writing.Rachel: Right.Gretchen: So, then your ninth-grade teacher noticed these things. It took up until them. I'm wondering if you had a sign, if the teachers didn't have one, did you have one inside and wonder what was up?Gabbie: Oh, yeah. And my mom is actually a special education teacher.Rachel: Got it.Gabbie: And she knew, she knew what was going on and she was teaching me at home, basically. So she was, you know, reading with me. I can remember spelling tests in elementary and early middle school where we would start on Mondays and just drill through them. And I would still barely pass after hours and hours. I can remember having homework where I, you know, had to fill out a workbook, and I can remember becoming so frustrated I actually threw the book across the room in a sort of fit of anger. And I was very calm, self-regulated child. So, I think for me I just thought, "This is what learning is" until I had that teacher.And it was like this real relief for me being evaluated and having the label, because I think sometimes people worry that the label is bad or can affect you in a negative way. But for me, it was a complete relief because it was like, "Well, you know, you just learn and think differently and your teachers aren't teaching the way that you need to learn. And there are some things that we can do now that we know to make this a way easier lift." And it was absolutely true.Rachel: Wow. That is really amazing that, you know, you were able to get to that point without anybody really seeing it. But once you got there, what supports did you get, you know, and how did they help?Gabbie: Yeah, I want to say first to that, as a professional in the field, you know, when I work with middle school teachers and high school teachers and sort of helping them think about kids with dyslexia, kids with other learning and thinking differences, I'm often incredibly surprised at how little they know about their kids reading levels and that they tend to make assumptions about everybody being able to read when they're sitting in like, say, a history classroom or a math classroom, and making assignments without looking into that, especially if a child doesn't have an IEP yet.So, I think it is important to know that by the time you get past fourth grade, most teachers aren't thinking about teaching reading, they're thinking about their content area instruction. And so, they may not be aware of where your child's specific reading skills are or writing skills. So, in terms of accommodations, I would say for me it was mostly about being able to listen to my texts across the curriculum.So back then, this is a long time ago now, I used to have books on tapes, so my textbooks on tape, but now, of course, we have digital support, so you can get basically any text, any reading that you need to, including things that are on paper like worksheets. You can use accessibility, accommodations, and features even on your phone just to have things read aloud to you. And so, that's a pretty basic accommodation that was really important to me. In fact, now I still often because I'm so much more efficient at listening comprehension in my professional life, I listen to the texts that I read. Not always, but most of the time.Another accommodation that I've used through college was doing speech to text technology, so where you can speak what you want to say in text and then editing through typing. I also had a lot of executive functioning support. So, you can think about executive functioning as being that sort of control center of your brain, that sort of set of skills that helps you to self-regulate and organize and figure out how much time it will take you to do something and be able to plan to get your work done. That was a huge thing for me. So, I had really explicit instruction and supports around, you know, having a daily planner and really learning how to chart and better guesstimate how long things would take me.Rachel: Right. You know, reading instruction is such a hot topic. It was then, it is now. So, families might be hearing things like structured literacy, balance literacy or phonics versus whole language. When it comes to kids with dyslexia and really all kids who are learning to read. What does science tell us about how kids learn to read best?Gabbie: Yeah. So, they really need explicit instruction about the code of reading. English is very, actually exists across languages, but let's just talk about English here. English is a very complicated language. It involves you learning one sound and then under a different set of rules. It makes a different set of sounds, you know. So, for kids who are dyslexic and many other kids as well, really explicitly teaching that sort of phonics-based, separating out, intentionally teaching systematically, the code of language is really important. And for kids with dyslexia, really doing it in a multisensory way so that you're taking different ways to get the information into your mind.One approach that a lot of people talk about, that's evidence-based in terms of supporting kids with dyslexia to learn to read is kids actually trace letters with their finger in sand as they're doing the sound-related work and it's just a way to work on getting that idea into the brain through different channels. And then repeated practice. You know, kids with dyslexia are going to need repeated practice with a skill over and over and over again in many different ways, more times than you would ever expect that you would need that repeated practice.Rachel: That brings me to my next question, because teachers always tell us from preschool all the way up. I mean, I've had sixth, seventh, eighth grade teachers even say it, that the best thing we can do for our kids is read out loud to them. So, does a diagnosis of dyslexia reflect some sort of failure on that front?Gabbie: Definitely not.Rachel: Good.Gabbie: And it really goes back to that brain-based difference thing. You know, our brains are built for language, not for reading. And so, some kids, when they come to reading, have a brain that picks it up more easily. And other kids, you know, kids with dyslexia being one example, really need that explicit instruction to get their brain around what's happening on the reading side. So, it's nothing that you did. It's just the way I am. Exposure to text is always good because it's good for your relationship with your child. It's good for them to understand the utility of books and to be transported by stories or to understand like how they can get information from books. But whether you did that or not won't affect their ability to pick up reading, when you start getting into decoding and understanding the really, you know, the relationship between symbols and sounds.Rachel: So, as you shared, you know, there's a genetic component to dyslexia. And so, if there's a parent or caregiver out there who is dyslexic and maybe they didn't get the supports to feel confident in their reading now, or they still find reading really frustrating, how can they read to or read with their child?Gabbie: OK. So, this is a wonderful question, and you can absolutely get as much out of listening to books as you can from reading books to your child to listening to books together and then talking about the story when you're in bed together. I remember when my daughter, she was, I think, in fifth or sixth grade, I think fifth grade, and she really wanted me to read "Little Women" to her and I can read it, but oh my goodness, is my fluency slow with that. You know, the sort of older English and it was very tough. And I remember sitting in bed with her and she was like, "I can read it, Mom," you know? And I'm probably going to cry right now while I'm talking about it. It's a hard moment, you know, like, because she was, you know, beyond me in that skill. Now, I can read a very complicated neuroscience text about dyslexia published in "Science" magazine. But I read it by listening, and reading a text like that is always going to be really hard for me. So, having her do that, I was like at the same time really proud and then also a little bit ashamed. But she just made it so wonderful for me in terms of being like, you know, "I want to read it" and us doing that together. So, that's also a good opportunity, I think reading together doesn't necessarily mean you reading to your child.Rachel: And I love that you're sharing that, you know, audiobooks, listening to books. It's I feel like there's that myth out there that that's a cheat. And it's totally not.Gabbie: Definitely not. And I think one big piece of advice I could give parents, you know, when they're sitting in IEP meetings and or thinking about their kids talking to their teachers in parent-child conferences, you know, by the time kids get to fourth grade, which is really that transition from learning to read to reading to learn, now your child might still be learning to read, and that's fine, but by the time you get to fourth grade, you really don't want all of their access to the content in the subject areas to be through reading in a traditional sense if they're reading below grade level.So, it's like separating "I'm still learning how to decode the text at a certain level, and I'm learning to comprehend texts at maybe a much higher level. And so, I can do that through listening comprehension." So, that's one of the best things that can happen when you get into middle school and high school. If you have a child who's reading below grade levels and working is on that is to say, "Let's make sure that reading comprehension in subject areas is that they have access to listening to text."Rachel: So, I've seen a statistic that one in five students has a language-based disability. But you certainly don't get the sense that we have that many students getting extra reading and writing support in the classroom. So, why is that? And what are the barriers to getting a diagnosis, if that's related to the reason why there's this kind of disparity?Gabbie: I think there are lots of reasons why kids aren't identified. So, you know, resources is one thing in the schools. So, there's a kind of threshold to be screened and there are limits, a limited set of resources, amount of time in terms of the number of special educators that they have in the school. So, that sometimes plays out, you know, in terms of who gets identified, how many kids are captured in that net. You know, I think it's knowledge on the teacher's part.General education teachers, so the ones who teach the main classroom, they might not know anything about dyslexia at all, might not have had any experience in their training, might have only had one class where they learned about all disabilities from teaching kids who are deaf to teaching kids or has autistic to teaching kids who are dyslexic. And that often sets up a kind of us and them in schools where it's like kids who have difficulty reading, that's the responsibility of the special education teachers and then everybody else's I'm responsible for, just because they don't know. They just don't know. There's a knowledge gap there.And I think also sometimes parents don't necessarily know that they can have their kids evaluated or can advocate to have their kids evaluated in the school. And that testing can be free, is free in the school. You can always have a private evaluation which can be expensive and you have to wait a long time for. But you can ask to have your child evaluated and you are protected. Your child is protected under IDEA to be evaluated and to have services when they're warranted. So, there are lots of issues as to why those kids don't get services.Rachel: And so, then if, let's say a kid gets missed and then they don't get a diagnosis and they don't get the support they need, how does this impact a person's future life? How does it impact, you know, upper grades of school to beyond if they don't get these supports?Gabbie: Yeah. So, I mean, it can be really devastating. And I don't want to put it on the child because I really believe, you know, in my work we make choices, how we create schools, and the ways that we teach.Rachel: Yep.Gabbie: And there's absolutely no reason why all kids couldn't be getting direct, explicit, systematic multisensory reading instruction, because then we would capture all the kids in the general classroom. But unfortunately, that's not the way most schools are set up. And so, what ends up happening is kids fail and then they get separate, explicit reading instruction as an add-on. So, I think when you don't have that and you're not reading on grade level, it really affects your ability to participate in any aspect of the curriculum. So, being able to learn about history, learn about science, and about math, even if you might be gifted in those areas because so much of the way that we construct school is through reading. Yeah, like if you think about math, you get a math textbook, right?Rachel: Yep. You read a word problem.Gabbie: You get a word problem, you're doing a proof. You have to write the proof, right in geometry. So, we really use reading and writing as a medium for instruction and for learning. It doesn't have to be that way, but that is how we do it. So, it can be really devastating for kids. And on an emotional level, I'm doing a bunch of work around stigmatization and how it affects kids with learning differences. Their perception of themselves and literacy is so important to our culture that when a person presents as not literate, they feel almost as if they're less than human, right? Because it's like this skill that we all assume that everyone has within our culture. And it's like, "Well, why can't you do that?" You know?And so, it's like this experience of dehumanization that happens if you can't read. And so, yeah, if you feel like it's being missed, if you have a concern about your child, if you suspect, you know, get in there and ask questions and you might get pushback. But I think, you know, no child was ever harmed by having an evaluation and getting extra support, really.Rachel: To be super clear about this, can a child or anyone who's been diagnosed be cured of dyslexia?Gabbie: No.Rachel: I'm using the word cured or doing air quotes, but also, you know, can we make it go away?Gabbie: Yeah, you cannot make it go away. It is literally a brain-based difference in how your brain processes and works with language. There's some evidence that as you get intervention, your brain does change. You know, the brain is classic. It does change in response to intervention. But when we look at that, it's mostly about when dyslexic people learn to read marshaling other areas of the brain to help them to do that. So, you can change in response to intervention. But no, it's not going to be cured.And OK, I might I'm going to say something a little controversial now as an adult with dyslexia, I'm not saying that it was easy. It was really tough to be in school and to go through schools that weren't really like fit for me as a person and that I had to figure out how to navigate, you know, with support. It was really hard. And I have a lot of privilege as a white person and a person who is resourced in terms of my parents being able to get me extra support. So, I don't want to like reduce that.But I do want to say, looking at my life now and who I am, I wouldn't want to be cured of dyslexia because it makes me the person that I am. And what's interesting is if you look at the research literature, even the brain science literature around dyslexia, that there are actually lots of other differences in the brain. Everyone's focused on reading because that's the biggest challenge, because the schools aren't set up to support kids who are dyslexic. But there's actually this other really interesting research literature that's just getting going, that's looking at, "Well, do kids with dyslexia have advantages in visuospatial processing?" So, for example, people who are dyslexic when they get through school are actually overrepresented among astrophysicists.Rachel: Wow.Gabbie: And you may be like, why is that the case? Well, it turns out that people who are dyslexic tend to be better at picking up patterns from a visual field. So, like pattern recognition, like being able to look at a star chart and recognize a black hole and things like that.Rachel: Something I could never do.Gabbie: Yeah. So, I think there's lots of things about being dyslexic that are advantages that maybe make up the kind of person that you are. That also comes with negatives, you know, in terms of the reading in the way school set up. But doesn't everybody have a mix of those things?Rachel: Totally.Gabbie: So, even if it could be cured, I wouldn't want it to be because it makes me who I am.Rachel: And that's such a great thing to be able to communicate to kids who maybe find out like, "Oh, you know, I have this diagnosis now. Now what?" You know, for parents and teachers to know that, you know, these are some things that they can maybe share with those kids. You know, as a super positive.Gabbie: Absolutely.Rachel: Gabbie, thank you so much for sharing everything you know and your personal stories. It's been just such a pleasure.Rachel: I have learned so much today. And also, I really appreciate you busting these myths because some of them I really didn't understand were myths.Gabbie: Thank you both so much. It was really fun to talk with you today.Rachel: Before we go, we have a favor to ask. On this show, we talk a lot about finding joy and celebrating successes when it comes to raising kids who learn and think differently. But what about the fails.Rachel: Oh the fails!Rachel: Yes, the fails. Let's be real! We all make mistakes. So, let's bond over those kinds of moments, too.Rachel: I have no idea what you're talking about, but. OK, I do. So, I think we're talking about those days when we are so exhausted, so fed up, we find ourselves saying or doing the total opposite of what we think a good parent or caregiver would actually say or do.Rachel: Totally. Like, maybe you just lose it after your kid spills juice everywhere again.Rachel: Or maybe you set a limit, even though you know there is no way you're going to stick to it. I mean, not that I've ever done that, but it's probably something to watch out for.Rachel: Yes, you are not alone. So, let's laugh and maybe cry about these all too human fails together. If you have a story to share, send us a voice memo at InIt@understood.org. Tell us how it started, what you were thinking and feeling, and how it ended. If you'd rather send an e-mail, that's fine too. You can also send that to InIt@understood.org.Rachel: You can be anonymous or use your first name. Just know that submissions may be played or read on the podcast and thanks. We can't wait to hear from you, and we can't do this part without you.Rachel: You've been listening to" In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Rachel: This show is for you. So, we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at InIt@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Rachel: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Rachel: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin, and Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music.Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.Rachel: And thanks for always being in it with us.
I think my child has slow processing speed. Now what?
It can be hard to recognize slow processing speed. That’s because the signs aren’t always obvious. Kids might not follow directions or answer the teacher’s question when they’re called on. They might take forever to finish homework or make up their mind about something.Those things can happen for all sorts of reasons. And if your child does one or two of them once in a while you might not think anything of it. But if you’re seeing this type of behavior a lot, you may wonder if slow processing speed is the cause.So, where do you go from here? Here are steps to take if you think your child has slow processing speed.1. Learn about processing speed.Processing speed is complicated. The more you know, the more you can help your child. Get the facts about slow processing speed. Know the signs at different ages. And see what it’s like for kids to have slow processing speed.2. Look for patterns.The most valuable information you can share with others is what you’re seeing at home. Learn how to look for patterns in your child’s behavior. The signs of slow processing speed can vary from task to task. Being slow to process information can be stressful for kids, so you might also see signs of anxiety.3. Find out what’s happening at school.Teachers can be great sources of information and insight. Set up a time to talk with your child’s teacher. Find out what the teacher is seeing in class and share what you’ve seen at home. Together, you can talk about what might help.4. Connect with others.By talking about what’s happening with people you trust, you might find out they’ve experienced something similar. 5. Let your child know it’ll be OK.Being slow to process things can make kids feel frustrated and bad about themselves. Tell your child that the challenges are real and have nothing to do with being smart or not working hard enough. Get tips for responding when your child says, “I can’t do it.” And learn more about talking to kids about slow processing speed.6. Know where to go for answers.The only way to know for sure if your child has slow processing speed is through an evaluation. Schools do evaluations for free. The results will show where your child is struggling, along with strengths. And they can lead to supports at school.7. Find ways to help at home.Try these tips from a teacher. Learn how to give praise that builds self-esteem. And hear from a mom who learned to respect her son’s processing speed and savor a slower pace at home.
In ItThe real-world benefits of gaming for kids
Many kids and teens love to play video games. Are there benefits or risks to playing video games for kids who learn differently?Many kids and teens love to play videos games. But families often worry about the effects of gaming. How long should kids play for? Which games should they play? And are there benefits or risks to playing video games for kids who learn differently? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra get answers from digital play expert and child psychologist Dr. Randy Kulman. Listen in to hear Randy’s tips on how families can help kids maximize learning from popular video games — and transfer that learning to the real world. Plus, hear Randy’s thoughts on EndeavorRX, a prescription video game for kids with ADHD. Related resources6 surprising benefits of video games for kids How to choose video games and apps for your childLearning Works for Kids And check out Randy’s book: The Gaming Overload Workbook: A Teen's Guide to Balancing Screen Time, Video Games, and Real LifeEpisode transcript Amanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org. And I'm also a parent of kids who learn differently. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. And this is "In It."Amanda: "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On the show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We offer perspective, stories, and advice for, from, and by people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences. Gretchen: Today we're talking about gaming — as in video gaming — and whether or not it can help our kids with some of those learning differences Amanda just mentioned.Amanda: And we're going to get into some exciting developments in the world of digital games that are specifically designed to help with ADHD.Gretchen: Joining us to talk about this is Dr. Randy Kulman. Randy is a child psychologist who's worked with children, teens, and families for over 30 years and is an expert on the use of digital technologies for improving thinking skills in kids.Amanda: Randy is also a writer. He's a speaker, and he's the founder and president of LearningWorks for Kids, which offers training, video game reviews, and learning resources to make digital games good for kids. Gretchen: He's based in Rhode Island — yay, my home state! And we're delighted to have him on the podcast today. Randy, welcome to "In It."Randy: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about being here. Gretchen: So before we get into the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to gaming, I wonder if you could tell us a bit about your work. Who comes to see you in your practice and how does that tie into your work on digital tech and video games?Randy: So if I can, let me even give you a bit of history from before I started working with kids directly. I was an undergraduate at the University of Rochester.Amanda: My alma mater.Randy: Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I also had a chance to spend time with Dr. David Elkind, who is one of the leading developmental psychologists in the world. He was an incredible mentor. And his expertise is in children's play. And I've always been super interested in children's play. And back in the 1990s when I started my clinical practice, kids would come into my office, all these kids with ADHD and learning disabilities and to some degree spectrum disorders, but particularly the first two. And the parents would be talking about all the troubles that the kids have, all the difficulties they would have.And then, I started to notice, and then — back in the '90s is when some of the original console games were out. The Nintendo, the Atari was around, and the kids loved those games and technology. And I began hearing, even at that point: "My kid couldn't have ADHD. You should see how much they play with a video game. They can focus and concentrate on that fpr hours. In fact, I can't get them off of it." It really got me thinking about how can we use that — gaming — because one of the things I learned from Dr. Elkind was "Play is learning." This is how kids learn. How could we use that to help these kids? Fast-forwarding, I worked in my clinical practice. We started doing some stuff in the practice. We began using a game called RollerCoaster Tycoon in the early 2000s as a game to teach kids problem-solving. Basically we're doing group therapy, playing RollerCoaster Tycoon. I'm not sure how successful we were. I do remember one thing, that l=kids love to build roller coasters that would end in the middle of the year and people would die falling from the roller coaster. And they were good at it.And by the way, that uses a lot of planning. You have to use some planning skills. You have to be a little bit flexible in terms of how you design it. You have to do a bunch of things. So they were using the skills. And that's sort of where we got going. At some point, shortly thereafter, we developed our LearningWorksforKids.com website that was designed to essentially help parents understand how gaming might help their kids — to find games that practice some of these executive functioning skills and what they could do about it. Gretchen: I'm wondering, before we move on from your history, Randy, do you play games?Randy: So, whenever I'm giving talks, one of the first things I say is: Here's my disclaimer. I am not a gamer. I'm really interested in children's play. And that's really kind of my focus is. And what I'm really interested in is how do we make children's play into real learning? Because if you think about this, many of these kids that we see with learning disabilities and ADHD who play a lot of video games — and perhaps they're almost drawn to those games because it's something that they're good at. It's something that makes them feel good when they're paying attention. It feels good to pay attention, to be really focused, to be in the flow. But if gaming was so good for those kids, why are they coming to my office? Why aren't they learning all these skills? Why is that not happening from playing those games? And I think that that's kind of an important question to take a look at and to determine: can we leverage or use those games to help these kids.Amanda: There's been sort of a lot of buzz in the, well, in the circles that we inhabit, right? About this game called EndeavorRX. And it's that FDA-approved treatment for ADHD. Can you tell us about EndeavorRX, what you know about it, and who's supposed to use it, who can prescribe it and how it works?Randy: So, Endeavor is really designed to improve focusing skills and control of focus. And it's essentially a game that uses sensory and motor feedback to help the kids improve their attention — that challenges them to use those skills. I would say that we're still in the infancy with Endeavor. Another game that I think is really good is called Mightier. Now, if I could say one thing that I think is super important about this stuff, is Endeavor and Mightier, and there are other ones out there as well, but those two games in particular start off from the premise of "Let's make this fun." Because if you don't make it fun, the kids aren't going to do what they need to do. I mean, you learn because you pay attention and you focus. If you don't pay attention, you can't learn. You can't remember. And both of these companies started off with game developers and they said, how do we make fun, engaging games? Because that's what they're competing against to keep kids' attention. You got to make this fun because otherwise it's not gonna matter.Gretchen: Right. Kids will feel like it's meant to teach something rather than "I'm going to play" — and learn at the same time — if it's not fun. Randy: Yeah. Well, I think that's part of it. Although maybe I have a little bit more faith in kids in the sense of, we can say to them, this is fun and you're going to learn, OK? What we're trying to do at LearningWorks for Kids is we try to make games digitally nutritious. You can make healthy things into something good. And I think you can tell kids that. In fact, I actually believe that that's probably one of the things that we don't do well enough is that part of helping kids to improve these skills — is to work on the metacognitive component. To think about what they're doing in a game, then think about how that might help them in the real world, too. That's kind of the premise of what I do with all of our LearningWorks materials. We basically use one simple ditty. We say you need to be able to detect, reflect, connect. So you have to identify a skill, think about that skill, and then connect it to the real world. And so I think we can tell kids, when it comes to, for example, Mightier or Endeavor, the kids know, you know, Endeavor is being prescribed. "My pediatrician or a psychiatrist is prescribing it for me," but this is good medicine. This is the kind of medicine you want to take, if you will.Amanda: I'm wondering a little bit about non-prescription video games. So like, thinking about popular ones like Minecraft and Fortnite and Roblox, and that's about where I can land, because I don't know any of the names of the other ones. Are there any that stand out to you as being really good for that metacognitive, that thinking about thinking for kids who learn differently?Randy: Absolutely. It's funny that you mentioned that. So Minecraft, Roblox, another one that's pretty popular now is called Animal Crossing. Those are three of the main games where we kind of use that to teach kids these skills while we're playing the games. One of the concerns that I have about video gaming and kids is that the kids don't play the game and immediately generalize what they've learned in the game to the real world. And that's the key for learning any place. I mean, if you go to a classroom and the teacher teaches you some math facts, but you can't go and measure something when you leave the classroom or you can't apply it in some ways, it's not that helpful.It's it's, this is really all about generalization. It's, you know, how do you learn something in one setting and apply it to another setting? It's really the key to it. And the way that oftentimes happens is that people work to teach kids. What goes on when it comes to video games — and Amanda, I'm going to pick on you for a minute, OK?Amanda: Absolutely. Randy: You sure? I don't know if you'll talk to me after this, OK? How old are your kids? Can I ask that on a podcast? Amanda: Oh yeah — 25, 19, and 11.Randy: OK. So first of all, you're too young for a 25-year-old. OK. Amanda: I'm going to talk to you again for sure.Randy: So let's put that out on the table, OK? But the 11-year-old, OK? I would say to you that it's important for you to play some of those games with your 11-year-old or sit with — is it a boy or a girl?Amanda: He's a boy. He has ADHD. I do sit with him and he tells me all about what he's doing.Randy: Excellent. Then I'm wrong, because by getting him to tell you what he's doing is really also an opportunity for you to help with that metacognitive process — to kind of think about that stuff.And I think that what's happened with video games in particular, is that, you know, a certain generation of parents, maybe the next generation that's coming out will do this, but an older generation didn't play the games cause they didn't know the games. The kids were the experts in the games. They kind of stayed away from that.I mean, when my kids were growing up, I coached him in baseball. I talked to them about baseball. We would do that kind of stuff. If you played board games, you would do that kind of stuff. That's traditional parenting is sort of teaching kids. If they get frustrated after losing a game, you talk to them about that.But I think when it comes to video games that parents have been far less involved. Now some of that is because of the nature of video games and sitting, staring at a screen. But I think that that's become one of the reasons that kids don't learn so much though, because we don't have parents engaged and involved.Amanda: Well, I will say though, that it took me a while to realize that what he wanted me to do was to listen to him, talk it through, right? And I know a lot of parents will say to me, like, I don't understand why they're telling me everything that's going on in the game as they're doing it. It took me a while to read, realize he wants feedback. He's looking to figure out, like, what do I think of this? What, you know, what — he's into, like a lot of the LEGO city games where he builds the things and then he, you know, navigates them and he'll say, you know, do you think this will work? Or do you think this won't work? And, you know, I realized he wasn't just saying it to talk out loud. But I think that's such an important thing is to realize that you don't have to play it to be engaged with them. Gretchen: Yeah. Randy, you know, since Understood supports people who learn and think differently, we want to ask some questions about specific learning challenges and how games might help — or might make them worse. So I think Amanda is cuing up the first question.Amanda: You know, I think I may have already asked, but I'm going to ask it a different way. Those games like Minecraft and Roblox and Animal Crossing, do they have a way of supporting visual-spatial planning, that ability to look at things, understand where they fit in space, and that kind of thing? Cause I know that that's something that parents worry about when they talk to us. Is this helping or not helping?Randy: I'm not a hundred percent convinced that there's any great research out there to say that. However, I also have no doubt whatsoever that that's what's going on. Because I mean, you know, some people have referred to Minecraft as LEGOs on steroids, if you will.And I can tell you from thousands of interviews, when I see kids who have visual-spatial strengths at least, if I say to the parents, you know, after I'm going over a testing evaluation kind of information with them, and I say, oh, your child's got really strong visual-spatial skills. I'll say, does he or she like playing with LEGOs?And the answer is yes, yes, yes, almost always. And the kids who struggle with that don't do as well, OK? Now what happens is, again, like anything else, you avoid things that you're not as good at, but I think that because some of these things are a little bit more engaging, it does offer that opportunity for kids to practice some of those skills that they might struggle with otherwise.And certainly Minecraft is designed like that and there's lots and lots of other building games. One of the games that a lot of the kids that we see and we've actually done some classes on it, was called Terraria. They like that game as well. So there's a lot of those games where they're, they're building work things in the world and developing that and they have to think it out.Gretchen: So what about kids who get stuck or perseverate? Are there games that can be either helpful or harmful for that?Randy: Both. So, I mean, the most common thing that I hear from parents when they're complaining about their kids' video games is that they get stuck and they won't get off the game. Now it's interesting. Some of the research on kids with ADHD going back into the mid 2000, 2005, 2010, those years, suggested that kids who don't have attention problems are far more likely to give up playing and get done when their parents tell them to, whereas compared to about 90% of kids with ADHD struggle with that. So they are far more likely to get stuck in terms of the transitions. However, it's an incredible opportunity to teach flexibility, because almost by nature, any of the good video games require that you sort of die or you lose a life, or you kind of have to go back to the beginning and you have to then use a different strategy to be successful.That's how the games teach you — the good games teach you how to play the game not by giving you a set of instructions. Like you can't go get a set of instructions and say, OK, how do you play this video game? You just play it. And you say, oh, that didn't work. I got to do something differently. Now do the kids take that and do they internalize that? Some do. Many don't. Could we help some of those who aren't doing it to internalize that? That's our belief at LearningWorks. You know, we really think that that's one of the things that parents should be doing is they should be saying, well, what'd you do then? I know you got frustrated last week with something. Did you get past that? Yeah. Well, what did you do? And it's really an opportunity to teach kids. And then by the way, then the real thing we have to do is say, "And how can you do that in the real world? See if you can kind of connect that to something in the real world." So, I don't know if I answered your question.Gretchen: You did. And the fact that you're saying perhaps these games can help with things like confidence and perseverance, but you have to be talking about it and think of a way to pull it out of the game, right? Amanda: Well, and the sentence starters matter too, right? Like what you're giving us, Randy, as some of those questions that parents can ask that they may not think about asking. And I think that makes a big difference too. One of the things that I know a lot of teenagers — my older son, who is a teenager, he's very much into these MMOGs, right? The massively multiplayer online games. I worry that it makes him more socially isolated, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong and it's actually supporting his social skills.Randy: Oh man. I'm so glad you asked because I know all the answers — not. So here's my take on that, is that it's an opportunity to socialize in a different way. And keep in mind, look how we're socializing right now in some ways, OK? And in the future, that's going to be part of socialization. I love to encourage kids who are doing that kind of stuff to do it with kids that are local — to be playing those games with kids who are in their high schools, kids who they're going to see in some other setting, even if it's just a couple of them.I think that that makes a world of difference because now they have someone they could sit with at lunch and they can talk about the same thing they were talking about when they were online. So to the degree that you can make that happen. There are also a lot of skills that kids learn in terms of leadership skills. Harvard Business Review did an incredible study on people who were World of Warcraft players and found that the people who were Guild leaders there were actually better trained to become business leaders than people who went and got their MBAs. So I do think that's the case, but it also never then helps the kids sort of overcome that face-to-face sort of anxiety issues and things like that. And I would say to you that probably when it comes to gaming in general, the most important part of thinking about this stuff is to think about it from the perspective of balance. The thing that I am proudest of in terms of all the stuff I've written about and developed is this concept of what I call a play diet. What's a healthy play diet in today's world, OK? And a healthy play diet in today's world includes certainly a lot of physical play, being outside, exercising, social play, doing stuff with other people, opportunities for unstructured or creative play.But also, you need to have digital play in there. If you don't, it's actually problematic. There's been a series of studies by a guy by the name of Andrew Przybylski and a few other people that basically says playing an hour of video games a day is probably pretty healthy for you. Playing three hours or more is probably pretty unhealthy for you. But maybe even more fascinating is not playing at all is pretty unhealthy for you as well, because it's how kids connect. So, if that's all your child does, that's probably not healthy because it's just not balanced. Gretchen: So, during the pandemic, I know a lot of kids turned to video games. And my 11-year-old daughter did, and it was a way for her to socialize because she'd be chatting with her friends, sometimes separately on like a hangout thread while they're playing or sometimes in the game.But she was anxious about the world, right? Lots of kids were at that time. And the game started making her more anxious because she couldn't stop thinking about, well, are my friends on, am I missing it? Oh, are they earning more points? Oh, how can I get this token? Oh, wait Mom, I need money. I want to buy this thing. So, what do you say about kids with anxiety and games? How do those two go together?Randy: Yeah, the fear of missing out is huge. And actually I would connect that less to gaming and more to the social media component of it as well. That, that social part, where that's really a remarkable area if you think about it. I see more 8-, 9-, 10-year-old girls who are in the kinds of things that we used to see with teenagers in terms of their peers and the social kinds of stresses and the clicks and feeling removed from that. So, yeah. And you're absolutely right too. When you look at the data on anxiety, in terms of what we've seen during COVID compared to pre-COVID, it's crazy. I think I saw something recently, the data was something like 41% of teens reported some signs of anxiety during COVID compared to typically about 11%. And I think part of that is also how do we help kids with anxiety in general? And part of that is, again, I'll go back to the healthy play diet. Kids with anxiety need to be exercising. They need to be doing other things. Cause I just think sometimes, think about treating anxiety solely as putting somebody in therapy and maybe give them medication. That's not the long view approach to that. Yeah.Gretchen: Maybe games that make you get up and move.Amanda: Dance Dance Revolution.Randy: Well, yeah, there aren't as many of those as they used to be, but there are those, and I think we're going to see more and more of that with virtual reality. Cause that's kind of the next phase of what's going to go on with gaming. And with virtual reality, I mean, you could really be boxing and you can do all kinds of movement. I'm waiting for a really good tennis game so I can start playing. Cause then I'll be a gamer. I keep looking all the time for a new game that is realistic tennis so I can go in my basement — instead of getting on my exercise bike and just peddling, I'm actually kind of moving and doing things.Amanda: Randy, I'm going to ask you another question — knowing this is a question I'm sure you get a lot and that the answer is nuanced. Are there games out there that you think we should really limit kids' exposure to?Randy: Well, I do not like violent video games and that's part of me personally, but I also think that if we can assume that you can learn something from playing video games that's positive, might we assume that she could learn some negative things. Now the data does not say that you play violent video games and you'll become violent. But I do think it can desensitize kids. And I do think that that can have a negative impact upon relationships. Maybe some of why some of the meanness that's in society nowadays could be related to it. I don't know. That's a stretch. So, I don't know if I want to be quoted on that one. But the bigger piece to that, though, is a lot of younger kids. I can't tell you how many 5- and 6-year-olds I have who are playing Fortnite. And normally I don't tell parents what to do, OK? I try very hard to kind of work with them. But I very clearly will say to them, "I really don't think that your 6-year-olds should be playing Fortnite. It's a very violent game." And probably this is my being a non-gamer is there are probably games that if I really knew about in more detail, I would kind of like really be saying to you, no, no, no to these. But, but I'm guessing that those games are fitting into violence or racism, sexism, those kinds of things.I'm not as familiar with those kinds of games. I know they're out there. So like the Call of Duty games, for example. They're really exciting for the kids. They love playing them. And I think if a teenager wants to play them with their friend after school, that's probably fine. They're old enough also to know the difference between fantasy and reality. And the kids who don't, they're going to have problems wherever they're at.Gretchen: So let's look ahead a little. Let's look into your crystal ball, Randy. You know, what do you see in the future in terms of how we're going to think about the role of digital games in our kids' development and how we design them? Randy: Well, let me veer off for a second, OK, if I can. I think that in many ways, a smartphone could be a person with ADHD's best friend. If it's used properly. One of the things that I'm very, very interested in is kids who struggle with writing. I am such a big believer that we are doing a horrible job of teaching kids how to use dictation skills. They're talking all the time, whether they're online talking to their friends or whether they're talking to Siri, everything's going to be like that. They need to learn how to use dictation for example. So part of the future, I think, is going to be that we start to accept this as just kind of what it is. We do a lot of stuff at LearningWorks about finding apps that support weak executive functioning skills. And I think that all these technologies can do that and in a much easier fashion than some of the video games. Cause I think the video game piece is a little bit more indirect. I look at it like, well, you can walk to school and it's three miles away. It takes you an hour. You can ride your bike to school and it's three miles away and it takes you 15 minutes. Why do we not use technologies to help these kids? Especially — I have another particular interest with kids with slow processing speed. I'm actually working on a book on that because there's a lot of video games out there that actually can help a little bit with that. But there's a lot of technologies that can help a lot with that. So those are some of the things I think we're going to be moving towards in the future.Amanda: Well, I mean, this has just been such a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Randy. I really appreciate it. Gretchen: Really interesting. I've learned a lot, you know, just for my own knowledge at home, but also for the world and for our kids. So thank you so much.Randy: Well, you're quite welcome. This is really fun for me. This is kind of what I really enjoy doing.Gretchen: Dr. Randy Coleman is the author of a bunch of books, including most recently "The Gaming Overload Workbook: A Teen's Guide to Balancing Screen Time, Video Games, and Real Life." To find out more about Randy's work on maximizing children's learning from popular video games and interactive digital media go to LearningWorksforKids.com.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Gretchen: Share it with the parents you knowAmanda: Share with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher.Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need.Gretchen: Go to u.org/init to find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash in it. And please share your thoughts. Email us at init@understood.org. We'd love to hear from you.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
In ItThis is how we make it through
In an article for the New York Times, Andrew Solomon wrote, “The fact that you wouldn’t have chosen something doesn’t mean you can’t find joyful meaning in it.” In an article for the New York Times, Andrew Solomon wrote, “The fact that you wouldn’t have chosen something doesn't mean you can't find joyful meaning in it.”In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Bob Cunningham hear from families about the (sometimes unexpected) ways joy creeps into everyday life — even on the most challenging days.From learning to ride a bike (as an adult!) to making fart noises at the dinner table, this is how families with kids who learn and think differently make it through.Listen in. Then subscribe to In It on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.Episode transcriptAmanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, a writer and in-house expert for Understood.org and a parent to kids who learn differently. Bob: And I'm Bob Cunningham. I'm a career educator and a parent. And I'm the executive director for learning development at Understood. Amanda: And we are "In It." Bob: This is a podcast from Understood. On this show, we hear from parents and caregivers and sometimes kids. And we'll offer support and advice for families whose kids are struggling with reading, math, focus, and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: Today, we're talking about finding joy and beauty in everyday life — while also managing the challenges that come with raising kids who learn differently. The idea for this episode started with an article I read in the New York Times, by Andrew Solomon. His name may be familiar. He writes a lot about families that are different in some way. This article was about the work we as a society need to do to overcome these sort of pervasive negative and kind of uninformed views of disability. Amanda: And there was one line in it that I especially love as a parent of kids with autism and ADHD. Solomon wrote, "The fact that you wouldn't have chosen something doesn't mean you can't find joyful meaning in it." And boy, did that resonate with me.Amanda: It's nice to start talking about the great things about having kids, regardless of whether they learn anything differently. Because a lot of the time we're talking about what we find difficult, and to be able to talk about what's really just joyous in having kids, I think, is something every parent probably should be looking at, at some point or another. But first, Bob, tell me what "joy" means to you. Bob: So for me, "joy" is that little bit of overwhelming feeling you get, right? So it goes beyond just being happy or being excited. It's that kind of sense of being overwhelmed by what is happening that makes you feel so happy. Amanda: I, you know, I think your definition of "joy" is very similar to mine. I don't think of it as sort of that everyday contentment that, you know, things are going well. It's that moment that makes you like laugh out loud. So once we started talking about this, I was reminded of a family my kids and I got to hang out with over the summer, Lindsay and Kevin. And we're just going to use their first names today. They're raising two kids who learn and think differently. And when I found they and their family were going to be passing through my town in Maine, I suggested we meet up. And we all went out to lunch, and our time together was — it just made a really powerful impression on me. First of all, our two boys are very close in age, never had met, and they were just joyous together. And then there was this one moment after lunch when Kevin and his son Sam just started skipping down the street like they didn't have a care in the world. Kevin, do you remember skipping down the street like that? Kevin: I do. Yeah. And we'd just had a good lunch and we were — he was feeling silly. And I think what's important to say about that is that he used to not be able to skip. You know, he wears braces on his feet. And that was a challenge for him to get to the point where even could skip. So when he wants to skip now, I'm there. I want to skip with him. I know how hard he worked to get there and how much fun it is for him. So I take those chances whenever I get them. Amanda: Sam is 8 years old. His sister Maggie is 12. When asked to describe Maggie, Lindsay says right off that she is ferociously brave. Lindsay: She is the person who will do parasailing 400 feet in the air with my mom.Amanda: Maggie loves art, theater, soccer, and science. Lindsay says she has what's called a language-based learning disability. Lindsay: So for her, her working memory and her short-term memory are smaller than other kids. And so for her what that means is it's sometimes hard for her to comprehend or to take multi-step directions. And sometimes it's really hard for her to express herself. Amanda: Maggie's brother Sam has a different personality. Lindsay says he's super silly, very emotionally expressive, and all heart. Lindsay: People at school call him the mayor, because he goes around and says hi to everybody. Amanda: Sam has some difficulty with reading like his sister. But most of his challenges are physical. He struggles more with motor skills. Kevin and Lindsay talk about their kids with so much warmth and humor and pride, but they say it took them some work to get there. Both Kevin and Lindsay loved school when they were little. And success came easily to them, so they figured their kids would be the same. When Maggie's kindergarten teacher first told them she thought there was some sort of problem, they were floored. Kevin: We were blindsided with that news in kindergarten and it really — really took us back. You know, there'd never been any signs in preschool. The teachers always said, "Oh, she's such a delight. She's got a great attitude. She's doing just great." They didn't catch any of this stuff because she put on such a brave face. And so it really — it surprised us. And also, we didn't know how to deal with it, because it was not something that we ourselves had been through, right?Amanda: What was it to you when it looked like school wasn't going to be as easy for her as it had been for you? Kevin: It was definitely disappointing. I mean, I mean, because, you know, we had a certain — you know when you have kids, you have a certain vision of how things are going to go. And it's always rosy and optimistic, right? But parenthood is a series of steps where you realize that your kids are like everyone else. So they're not perfect. And we had steps like this before. Both Maggie and Sam have vision problems. So they had to get glasses when they were really young. And that was our first moment of, oh, wait, our kids aren't perfect, you know? And it seems like such a stupid thing now. But at the time, just Maggie getting glasses was heartbreaking for us. Now it's a tiny thing. We don't even think about it, you know. The news in kindergarten was an even bigger blow to that idea that this wasn't the path that we'd imagined for our kids. First Maggie, then — and then Sam later on. And yet, you know, that's the path they're on. And you can get upset that it's not the perfect way it's gonna be. Or you can realize this is who your kid is and you've got to meet them where they are. Amanda: It sounds like they've redefined your expectations of what parenting would be. Does that sound accurate? Lindsay: A hundred percent, I think in two ways. I was thinking about this idea of joy. And I think, you know, we live in a university town that sends tons of kids to Ivy League colleges. And, you know, the conversations at the school board meeting and around town are just about how stressed our kids are. And there's this great author that calls it the checklisted childhood. Like we're doing everything we can to sort of build our kids' resumes so they get into the perfect college and get the perfect job. So I would say one of the most beautiful ways, and one of the most freeing things that having the kids we have did was — it kind of threw all of that out the window. Like I feel very free that our kids do not have to compete with other kids. And that is not saying we're lowering our expectations at all for our kids. It's saying, what we're gonna do is really figure out the kids we have and what's going to make them thrive. And so it doesn't matter if so-and-so is going to college and so-and-so is going on to do this. In some way, that was like so relieving to not even have to be a part of that conversation or to feel influenced by it. Because I think we learn early on like we have to know the kids we have, and the way that they're going to be the most successful is really figuring out what's right for them. Amanda: But parenting their kids hasn't just been a matter of adjusting expectations. It's also allowed for some incredible growth. Like when Lindsay saw Maggie struggling to learn how to ride a bike.Lindsay: I never learned how to ride a bike. Lindsay: And the reason I never learned how to ride a bike was not for lack of trying. Or my parents trying. So we did the traditional thing where my father held on to the back seat of my bike. And, you know, what's supposed to happen is you're supposed to be riding and all of a sudden your dad lets go in you're supposed to have this great moment where you realize you're doing it. And what actually happened was I just kept falling and falling and falling. And I did not like to fail as a kid. So I decided I was not going to ride a bike because my father was clearly sabotaging me, which doesn't make sense now. But anyway, fast-forward to Maggie learning how to ride a bike. I'm 38 years old. She's trying so hard. And, you know, I feel like such a hypocrite because I'm telling — and this is so true of so many things in her life where I'm pushing her to be brave and bold and do all these things when I'm not really doing them myself. So she and I basically made a deal that if she learned how to ride a bike without me holding on to it, that I would go out, I would buy a bike, and I would learn to ride. Lindsay: And so that's exactly what we did. It was not pretty. Her elementary school had a big hill that goes down sort of, a street that goes down a big hill to her school. And so I used to make her — she really wanted to ride bikes to school — so I would make her go to school a half an hour early because I didn't want any of the adults to see me flying down the hill on a bike, screaming and terrified and potentially falling. So we would go early until I built up the confidence to just be able to ride normally. And now we now we ride all the time.Lindsay: And so I'm really grateful for her that, you know, I can't tell her to be brave and tell her to keep trying when it's hard if I don't do it myself. Bob: We heard from some of you about how you found joy raising kids with differences. Here's Beth.Beth: Patrick was born with Down syndrome, but he was also born with a heart defect and he had to be — have open heart surgery at 9 weeks old. And I had two other older children, Jack and Mary Kate. But I wasn't sure if Patrick was my last child or not. And so every part of his babyhood felt so special. And I savored it. And I felt gifted with that slow unfolding. It felt like those slow-motion videos that you see of a flower unfolding. Beth: In fact, I remember so clearly one time watching him spend an entire day figuring out how to open a kitchen cupboard. And as he was doing that, I thought, you know, Jack and Mary Kate just figured this out so quickly. I never even noticed when they figured it out. They — I mean, it was like I opened my eyes and now they know how to open the cupboard. Here, I'm watching you figure it out all day long. And by the end of the day, he figured it out. And it was such a special moment to get to see him really figuring these things out. Beth: I wasn't upset with him that it took him longer. I just thought it was cool that I could notice it. Bob: So I can remember a mom talking to me at length about her son. And her son had a lot of difficulty with a lot of things, especially around school, and that transferred into a lot of difficulty with a lot of things at home. Bob: And so one of the things that he started to do when he was kind of a young teenager is he really jumped into cooking. Fortunately for him, his mom and dad realized like, oh, this is really turning him on. He's really excited about this, right? So they encouraged it. They started to take him places to learn more about cooking. And the mom was, you know, talking to me about this over a period of months and then over a period of a year and stuff. And I can vividly remember kind of the last conversation I had with her about it. And it had entirely shifted from how into cooking her son became, to how into cooking she became. And this was somebody who never really liked to cook and was a very busy executive. And I remember her saying in the end, if it hadn't been for how excited he got, I never would have figured out that I actually love cooking. Amanda: Oh, that's so cool. So like she found joy through him finding his passion.Bob: Yeah. Amanda: And you know, and I think that's so important because we need to find those moments of joy, like whether it's from our kids, whether it's in our kids, or those kinds of things. And we definitely heard that from Lindsay and Kevin. But I don't want to give the impression that Lindsay and Kevin are superhuman and always patient and loving and understanding parents, because that's setting the bar pretty high. And they are the first to tell you that it's not moments of beauty and grace all day, every day. Kevin: I remember, we had a — we were having dinner one time, and it was one of those nights where both kids were acting up for whatever reason. And I'm not even sure it had anything to do with their differences. But it's just, you know, it's like a stressful night. We'd all had kind of a crappy day and we were all in a snippy mood. It was a very serious, tense moment. And Lindsay just stopped. She was about to lose it. And she put her mouth to her upper forearm and made a fart noise. And it was hysterical. It just cut through the tension of the table. And we all just started howling. It was just stupid and silly. And it just brought us all back to: What are we upset about? What are we doing here? They're kids! Have fun with them. Amanda: Such good advice, right? They're kids. Bob: Very good advice. And you know, we heard from another parent, Michelle, whose 17-year-old son Avi has autism. Michelle tells us she's gotten a lot of joy out of raising Avi, and she actually credits him with making his three siblings kinder people and with bringing lots of music and dancing into the house. But that doesn't mean she never struggles.Michelle: You know, it's an interesting balancing act, because I want to allow myself the permission to be human and to say sometimes this is really hard because sometimes it is really hard. And I feel like not allowing myself to understand that — and experiencing that — is not fair to myself, you know? And I don't want it to get pent up and turn into resentment. So usually, like in those moments when I feel that way, my husband or I — we're very good at bouncing off of each other. So neither one of us are allowed to be in one of those slumps at the same time. Michelle: If I'm in a slump first, he's not allowed to be and vice versa. That's number one. Number two is that we'll often remind ourselves of something that Avi has said or done that will just turn us into laughing within minutes. So somehow we try to bring in some of what who Avi is and remembering that great sense of humor and remembering that great, fun-loving, musical, happy kid. And that kind of helps bring us up. And I always try to remind myself that I think Avi's biggest problem with autism is us — meaning we are working on trying to fit him into a world that he doesn't naturally fit into. Michelle: But if he's not being pushed to fit into that world that he doesn't actually fit into and he is being allowed to play, dance, and sing and do what he wants, and it doesn't matter if he does that in a grocery store, because we're not worried about appropriateness, he's fine and happy. Michelle: You know, sometimes trying to remind myself about that happy kid, and that focus and whatever that issue is that's bothering me at the moment, can often usually just pull me out. Bob: She's so right about the grocery store. And, you know, when you have kids with stuff going on, other people think that's difficult for you or you need pity. Kevin, he really bristles at that notion. Kevin: When Maggie gets down about herself and the challenges she faces, we've actually pulled over the car one time and be like, look, all your friends have something to deal with, too. That one is emotionally fragile and cries on the soccer field anytime the ball gets taken from her. That one, you know, can't focus on this and that. Every kid is imperfect, right? And we just happen to know the way in which ours are imperfect. That doesn't mean they're broken or bad or wrong. Kevin: It's just that they're different, right? Every kid is different. And so there are these parents who I think, look at you like, oh, well, you must be dealing with it. But you're dealing with something else. I know that your kids have some issues, too. And if you don't know it yet, it's coming at some point, right?Amanda: Right. Kevin: Don't look at me. Look at your kids. Bob: So that's Kevin's message to folks who aren't raising kids who learn and think differently. Amanda: And here's Lindsay's message for those who are: That joy you're cultivating isn't just important for you. Lindsay: I think if we send them the message that there isn't room for joy or that this is so hard or such a life sentence, like whether we realize it or not, our kids are picking up on that. And, you know, I think they're working harder than most adults we know, because they're grappling with so much. And so, you know, I think it's key to their survival — having that belief and being able to create those moments. You know, I think one of the ways that I've tried to keep my perspective on this is like dealing with my own stuff, getting help. Talking to other parents, finding a community of parents and kids who learn and think differently so that I'm not processing that stuff with them. That's not fair to them. I think, you know, our job — I think my parents were the ones who sort of said your job from now on is to be a detective and to watch them and to figure out what they're good at and figure out what brings them alive and to lean in to that. Lindsay: And so I guess my only closing thought is just how important our job is as parents to make those moments of joy and to make things right and to sort of be detectives and figure out what gives them joy and to do more of that. Amanda: Lindsay makes such a good point about the need to deal with your own stuff, right?Bob: For sure. And it's not only our own stuff. It's also kind of just the way we expect things to go, right? And we expect things to go a certain way because that's how it went for us, right? That's how it went for us when we were kids. That's how it went for our other child. That's how it went for the kids we watched our friends raise — that sort of stuff. So you get your ideas about the way it should go. It's not going to go the way you expected it to go, necessarily. I think we have as parents a lot of influence on it. But if you go into it thinking you're gonna control it, you're way off the mark. Amanda: And I think we have less influence than we actually think we do sometimes. I find myself having those moments where I'm like, wait a minute, why did I say no? Why am I not letting you do this thing that it doesn't matter if you do or not? It's these things as parents, we have sort of let go off and then just like finding the humor in it. Bob: The other thing is, look, you know, I have to remember, my wife has to remember, all of our listeners have to remember: Parenting is a long game, right? It's what happens over time. And each moment is far less important than you think it might be. So if something doesn't go well or you don't react the way you think you should or you have, you know, spent the last couple years really focusing on what's wrong and what's a problem and how can we help and what can we do better, it's never too late to sort of say, hey, let's start. You know, every week we're going to talk about one thing that was an experience of joy for all of us. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids who learn and think differently. Bob: We also really want to hear what you think of our show. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find resources. That's the letter "U" as in Understood, dot O R G slash podcast. Amanda: You can also rate and review us on Apple Podcast, iTunes, Spotify — wherever you download your podcasts from. It's a great way to let other people know about "In It." And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Send it to somebody who needs to find a little joy in raising their child. Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Bob: You can also subscribe to "In It" on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify or keep up with us however you take your podcasts. Between episodes, you can find Understood on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, or YouTube. And you can visit our website, U — that's the letter "U" — dot o r g.Bob: Our show is produced by Julie Subrin and Sara Ivry. Mike Errico wrote our theme music, and Laura Kusnyer is our executive director of editorial content. Amanda: Thanks for being in it with us. Bob: "In It" is a production of Understood.
Teacher tip: 5 ways to use slow processing speed accommodations at home
Not all kids work at the same pace. As an educator, I’ve seen many kids with slow processing speed who are smart, but who struggle to keep up with the pace in the classroom. When these kids are at school, they are (or should be) given accommodations like extra time or premade notes to help them navigate their school day successfully.With all the pressures of parenting, however, it’s a different story at home. Parents often want kids to hurry up and finish their homework or chores so they can move on to the next activity on the to-do list. That’s a recipe for frustration for kids who work slowly.My suggestion is to bring the spirit of your child’s school accommodations home. Here are a few ways to do that:1. Don’t use a timer for tasks at home.Setting a timer helps some kids keep focused. For many kids with slow processing speed, though, it often makes them anxious. Instead, to make sure tasks like chores and homework get done, I suggest creating predictable routines.2. Stick to homework routines.It’s important to do homework in the same place and at the same time every night. Try to have your child complete subjects in the same order, too. Kids can waste a lot of mental energy deciding if they should do math or spelling homework first. A routine helps kids spend their energy on what’s important — actually doing the work.3. Stick to chore routines, too.Keep chores as routine as possible. It will help save time and energy if kids do the same chore every night for a week, rather than being assigned a new chore at the last minute. When you do assign a new chore, make sure to teach your child ahead of time what’s expected and how to do it.4. Push back on homework that goes over the allotted time.Keep a close eye on how much homework is assigned. If your child’s homework takes too long, reach out to the teacher. You might even need to ask for the school’s homework policy. In this case it may help for you to use a timer to see how long homework takes. But as I said above, don’t set up a race between your child and the clock.5. Keep instructions simple and direct.When life is crazy, it’s easy to blurt out: “Get your backpack, hang up your jacket, begin your homework, and hurry up! We have to leave in 20 minutes.” For kids with slow processing speed, a string of commands like that can be overwhelming. At home, like at school, give directions that are short and simple. It may help to give instructions just one or two steps at a time.These are just a few ideas of how to bring school accommodations home. There are many more. Ask your child’s teacher for tips. Look at your child’s IEP or 504 plan for tools you can use. By applying school accommodations at home, you can make home life and homework a much happier, more productive time for your child.—Maureen Paschal is a teacher and librarian. She blogs at “Raising the Capable Student” and has a young adult son with ADHD.Read about whether processing speed can improve. Get tips on how to help kids who work slowly take better notes. And learn how the right environment can help a child with slow processing speed to thrive.
Understood Explains Season 2Who can diagnose ADHD in adults?
Find out which types of health care providers can diagnose ADHD in adults — if it’s worth the wait to see a certain kind of specialist. What type of doctor should you see for ADHD diagnosis — primary care provider? Psychologist? Psychiatrist? Is it worth waiting longer to see a specialist? How much does it cost? Get answers to common questions from Understood Explains host Dr. Roberto Olivardia: Can my primary care doctor diagnose ADHD? [00:50]Do I need a psychiatrist or psychologist to diagnose my ADHD? [03:19]What other kinds of specialists can diagnose ADHD? [05:13]How much does it cost to get an ADHD diagnosis? [07:01]Is it worth waiting longer for a specialist? [08:15]Key takeaway, next episode, and credits [09:05]Related resourcesHow ADHD is diagnosed in adults Can psychologists prescribe medication?Neuropsychological testing in ADHD: A special reportAbout psychiatric mental health nursingEpisode transcriptWho can diagnose ADHD in adults?You’re listening to Season 2 of Understood Explains: ADHD Diagnosis in Adults.Today’s episode answers the question “Who can diagnose ADHD in adults?” My name is Dr. Roberto Olivardia, and I’m a clinical psychologist with more than 20 years of experience evaluating people for things like ADHD. I’m also one of the millions of people who have been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. I’ll be your host.My goal here is to answer the most common questions about ADHD diagnosis. Along the way, you’ll learn a lot about ADHD in general. We’re going to do this quickly — in the next 10 or so minutes. So, let’s get to it.Can my primary care doctor diagnose ADHD? [00:50]The short answer is yes. General practitioners or primary care providers can diagnose ADHD. But they may recommend you go to a specialist instead. Let’s go over some pros and cons for getting diagnosed by your primary doctor…First, on the positive side:You already know your doctor. You don’t have to hunt around to find one.You can probably get an appointment pretty easily. And your doctor can help identify or rule out medical conditions that can have ADHD-like symptoms.So those are all good things. But there are some potential downsides in getting diagnosed by a general practitioner.First, primary care doctors may not have a lot of training in diagnosing ADHD in adults.It’s hard to believe something that is so common isn’t fully understood even by many doctors, including mental health providers. Without the right training, ADHD can be misdiagnosed. More often, however, studies have found that ADHD is vastly underdiagnosed. This is often because people with ADHD can also have issues with anxiety, sleep, and depression. And all symptoms can get swept into those categories, and the ADHD gets overlooked. Which may be why some of you listening today have made your way to this podcast. Also, the other point I want to make is that general practitioners may not have much training in how to treat ADHD.Diagnosis is only the first step. And all of your next steps will be to learn about ADHD and how to manage it. For example, if someone decides to take medication, it can take some time to find the right medication, the right dose, and manage any side effects. Sometimes it can take trying several different medications or doses before finding what works the best for you.It’s not as simple as “here is a prescription” and you’re on your way. Also, although medication can be very helpful as a part of the treatment regimen, it’s not enough. Remember: Pills don’t teach skills. Therapy or counseling can be really important ways to help you understand how ADHD affects you and develop strategies to change those behaviors. And you’ll likely need to get that kind of advice from someone other than a general practitioner.Bottom line: Find out how much training and experience your primary care doctor has in diagnosing ADHD. Ask them if they feel confident they can tease apart what’s causing your symptoms so they can correctly diagnose and treat your ADHD.If they say, “Yes, I’m confident I can do this,” great! If they say no, then they can always refer you to a specialist. Do I need a psychiatrist or psychologist to diagnose my ADHD? [03:19]In short, both are qualified to diagnose ADHD. But not all psychologists and psychiatrists have training and experience working with ADHD patients. So it’s important to ask first. So I’m a psychologist and I do a lot of diagnostic work. I also have many patients who were diagnosed by a psychiatrist and come to me for ADHD treatment. So without knowing more about you, I can’t tell you which is a better fit for you. But I can tell you how psychologists and psychiatrists are similar and how they’re different. Psychologists and psychiatrists who have ADHD expertise are similar in that they know how to suss out whether you might be experiencing another mental health issue that can look like ADHD or that might be happening in addition to ADHD. The big difference between these two kinds of specialists is what happens after they make a diagnosis. With psychiatrists, the big upside is they are medical doctors who can prescribe medication. On the downside, psychiatrists may not have the time or training to help patients work on daily life skills that can be so helpful for people with ADHD.Psychologists are often the reverse of this. Most psychologists can’t prescribe medication, unless they live in a handful of states that require extensive training and make exceptions due to severe shortages of medical providers. Meanwhile, many psychologists do have a lot of training in cognitive behavioral therapy. This type of therapy is useful in helping people with ADHD identify problematic patterns in their daily lives and find ways to replace those behaviors.It’s common for people with ADHD to get counseling from a psychologist and medication from a psychiatrist.But if you’re trying to decide which one of these specialists to go to for diagnosis, it may come down to cost and availability. How soon can you get an appointment with one or the other?What other kinds of specialists can diagnose ADHD? [05:13] There are three other specialists I want to discuss in this episode: neurologists, neuropsychologists, and nurse practitioners. First, neurologists… and I’m only mentioning them here because a lot of people ask about them. Neurologists typically aren’t the kind of specialist you’d start out with to get an ADHD diagnosis. But they might diagnose you with ADHD if you go see them to rule out something else, like a seizure disorder or some other medical condition. Next, neuropsychologists. They’re really good at figuring out if you have, say, a learning difference like dyslexia. For example, they can tell if you’re a slow reader because you’re having trouble processing the words or because you’re having trouble paying attention or some other reasonNeuropsychologists can also diagnose ADHD. But because they can test a wide variety of skills including intelligence, memory, and other specialized skills, it can often take longer to get an appointment with them. And they might not include as much information about different aspects of your life, like trouble at work or managing your relationships. There’s also some research that suggests neuropsych testing might not pick up on ADHD in some people, because the tests are often done in distraction-free environments that aren’t anything like normal, day-to-day settings.And last but not least, nurse practitioners. If you’re going to see a nurse practitioner for help with ADHD, look for one with advanced training in psychiatry. They’re often called psychiatric mental health nurse practitioners or PMHNP for short — whew, that’s a mouthful! They’re also called advanced psychiatric nurse practitioners. And they can diagnose ADHD, prescribe medication, and provide counseling. This can be a great choice if this kind of nurse practitioner lives in your area.How much does it cost to get an ADHD diagnosis? [07:01]The answer depends a lot on where you live, who you’re going to see, and how long you can wait. If you have insurance, then your only cost may be the co-pay to see a doctor who’s “in network.”Some specialists may be “out of network” or might not take insurance, so you may have to shoulder a hefty out-of-pocket cost that can be hundreds of dollars. Or in the case of a full range of neuropsychological testing, it may even cost thousands of dollars. One possible way to lower the cost of ADHD testing is to call up a college or university near you. It’s very common for schools that have graduate programs in clinical psychology to also have free or low-cost clinics where students do their training. You’d be evaluated by a grad student, but that person would be closely supervised by an expert. And in many cases, your evaluation will be reviewed by more than one highly trained professional.The same is true for medical universities that are training future psychiatrists and other kinds of specialists. Hospital clinics are likely to accept a large number of insurance plans. Some hospital-based clinics also offer free evaluations or use a sliding scale that charges lower fees to people with lower income levels.Is it worth waiting longer for a specialist? [08:15] There are a lot more primary care doctors than there are specialists, so the wait times are going to be longer. Is it worth the wait? This is a really tough question, and the answer depends on several important factors: First, how are you doing? Are you in crisis? Is there a medical problem or addictive behavior you’re struggling with? If so, the sooner you get an appointment with a provider the better. Also, think about how quickly you may need a diagnosis so you can start getting formal accommodations at work or school, or if there’s something urgent going on at home and you need to start taking steps to help heal your relationships. One option is to start working with your primary doctor now and get on a list to be evaluated and treated by a specialist in a few months.Key takeaway, next episode, and credits [09:05]OK, that’s it for Episode 2. The key takeaway I’m hoping sticks with you is the importance of getting a diagnosis from a professional who has training and expertise in ADHD.Remember that not all medical doctors or psychologists have this kind of experience. It may take some work to figure out who you can see and balance that with your finances. Even with long wait times, don’t let that discourage you from getting a diagnosis that could set you on a path to a better life. Thanks for listening to this episode of Understood Explains. And I hope you’ll join me for Episode 3, where we’re going to cover in-depth what kinds of questions to expect in an ADHD evaluation.You've been listening to Season 2 of Understood Explains from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources, as well as links to anything we've mentioned in the episode. One important note: I don’t prescribe ADHD medication and I don’t have any affiliation with pharmaceutical companies — and neither does Understood. This podcast is intended solely for informational purposes and is not a substitute for a professional diagnosis or for medical advice or treatment. Talk with your health care provider before making any medical decisions.Understood Explains is produced by Julie Rawe and Cody Nelson, who also edited the show. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show.For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.
7 ways to help kids with slow processing speed take notes in class
Taking notes on what the teacher is saying is a challenge for lots of kids. But students with slow processing speed may have an especially hard time keeping up. Here are strategies that could help your child with note-taking.1. Ask for supplementary notes.Many teachers will email or post slideshows, PowerPoint outlines, and Smart Board notes from lessons. Some may even prepare guided notes, which gives kids a structure to fill in. Kids who have a 504 plan or an IEP might be able to get pre-printed notes. These can be copies from classmates or from the teacher. Keep in mind that kids who get pre-printed notes should still take their own notes in class. It can help them stay engaged, and research shows that writing down new information helps students remember it.2. Consider a keyboard.For some kids with slow processing speed, using a computer to take class notes is faster and easier than handwriting. For others, the extra equipment can be distracting or unwieldy. Or they may end up typing word for word what the teacher says, rather than taking down information in a way that helps them understand it. So talk with your child and the school about giving it a trial run. If keyboarding does help, it could possibly be added to a 504 plan or an IEP.3. Have your child practice handwriting — a lot.The more your kids write by hand, the faster and clearer their actual note-taking will be. So try to encourage your child early (during grade school if you can) and often. Even though cursive isn’t emphasized in many schools now, it’s the fastest way to write. If your child gets special education services, you can ask the team about supplemental cursive instruction. Older kids may benefit from using abbreviations, like w/ for with. Ways of taking notes that don’t rely as much on writing, like a mapping method, may help, too.4. Encourage your child to be prepared for class.If your child’s teacher assigns reading before a class, work with your child to make it a priority. Being familiar with what they’re hearing in a lesson can help keep kids from falling behind when trying to process new words and concepts. You can also encourage your child to keep notebooks organized, pencils sharpened, and other materials close at hand.5. Remind your child to review class notes every night.A nightly review is a much better option than trying to make sense of incomplete notes a few weeks later, when it’s time (or past time) to study for a test. Even a quick glance will help your child pick out spots where information is missing or notes are unclear. It’ll be easier to fill in the missing information the same day. Or your child can ask the teacher in class the next day. 6. Suggest sitting at the front of the class.Kids who are just a few feet from teacher are more likely to pay attention and participate fully in the class. And more active listening allows students to process information more quickly. Sitting up front also means your child will be less distracted by other kids in class. Being able to stay focused can help improve processing speed, too.7. Try a smartpen.Kids who have a 504 plan or an IEP may be allowed to record lectures. But many students don’t have the patience to review hours of talk when they get home. Smartpens, such as Livescribe or Equil, may help. They can capture everything kids hear and write down in class. If any notes they took are unclear, they can touch them with the smartpen and replay what was said at that exact point in the lecture. Some schools may even cover the cost of a smartpen if it’s part of a 504 plan or an IEP.
In ItADHD in girls: Overlooked?
ADHD is just as common in girls as it is in boys. So why are girls diagnosed less often? And why do signs of ADHD in girls tend to get overlooked? ADHD is just as common in girls as it is in boys. So why are girls diagnosed less often? And why do signs of ADHD in girls tend to get overlooked? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Bob Cunningham hear from parents who initially missed signs of ADHD in their daughters. They also hear from a fellow Understood team member about being diagnosed with ADHD at 30 and how it changed her perception of herself.Listen in. Then:Learn more about ADHD in girls.Get a personal take from a young woman about ADHD and anxiety, and the signs she overlooked.Subscribe to In It on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.Episode transcriptAmanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin. I'm a writer with Understood.org, a parent to kids who learn differently, and a former teacher.Bob: And I'm Bob Cunningham. I'm a career educator and parent, as well as executive director for learning development at Understood.Amanda: And we are "In It."Bob: This is a podcast from Understood. On this show, we hear from parents, caregivers, and sometimes kids, and we'll offer support and advice for families whose kids are struggling with reading, math, focus, and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: Today, we're talking about ADHD in girls and why it can so easily get overlooked and underdiagnosed. Amanda: Bob, if you were to ask, say, a random person what they picture when they think of a kid with ADHD, what do you think they'd say? Bob: I think they'd tell you a hyperactive boy, can't sit still, disruptive, those kinds of things. Amanda: Yeah, that's definitely the perception of ADHD that most people have. But there's a few things wrong with that picture. First of all, girls have ADHD too. It's more commonly diagnosed in boys, but girls also have it. Bob: And second, while some girls do have that hyperactive kind of ADHD, most of the time it presents differently. Here's how one mom describes it. Christine: So she can be in class and be totally out to lunch. You know, her mind can be elsewhere and she can look like she's completely obedient and sitting there and polite and all that stuff, but her mind can just wander. Amanda: That's Christine talking about her daughter Siobhan, who is 11. For a long time, Christine thought Siobhan was just, you know, a daydreamer and maybe a bit defiant, since trying to get her to do something so often went like this. Christine: Siobhan, can you please set the table? I've just asked you 10 times to stop doing what you're doing and you're sitting there staring into a book on your bed. Homework, same thing. You know, redirect, redirect, redirect, redirect. Amanda: It took some time before Christine considered that maybe this wasn't a matter of Siobhan being stubborn or of bad behavior. Maybe it was something else. Bob: She wishes it hadn't taken her so long to get there. And she hopes other parents can learn from her experience. Amanda: Can you tell us a little bit about Siobhan and what she's like? Christine: Sure. So she is 11 years old. She's in sixth grade. She's very social. She's into art and drawing and stuff like that. She has always been a bookworm. She'll reread the same book a million times. Harry Potter, the whole series has been read probably, like I have lost track. And she likes to make up stories, too. You know, she can sometimes write some down, but writing is not a strength and so she'll tell them to me. And when we go for a walk or something in the park, she can start talking. And it almost sounds like she's reading the pages of a book because the story is just spinning in her head. Amanda: What about that said to you, "Oh, ADHD." Or did it? Christine: It really comes from the daydreamy aspect of her. That can really be a problem in a school setting, in a trying to get homework done setting, and a trying to keep the household running setting. You know, she said to me once after her math teacher, I think in fourth or fifth grade was complaining that, you know, she's always zoning out, this teacher said, I'm a seasoned professional. I've been doing this for decades. And I've tried all my tricks on her and nothing's working to get her to pay attention. And so I asked Siobhan, you know, what's going on? And she's like, well, whenever I'm bored or whatever, I can just, like, watch a movie in my head. And so it's not like what I thought of as typical ADHD, which is one reason I think that went undiagnosed for longer than it should have. Amanda: Before the math teacher said that to you, was ADHD even like on your radar? Christine: No. I knew that something was up because her grades were very uneven despite that she's a bright kid. And I think the previous conference to that one, I had asked her teachers, do you think she needs a tutor? And they said to me, no, she gets this material. She doesn't need extra help. It's not that it's conceptually challenging for her. She's just not focusing. It was almost like a personality flaw. You know, she's lazy. She's not applying herself. And so there was a lot of, in retrospect, wasted time. And no, ADHD was not on my radar. And now I have so much regret about that because I just was not informed. Bob: We asked other parents who have girls with ADHD if it took them a long time to arrive at the diagnosis. Here's what Margie told us. Margie: Yes. The thing is, when she was 10, we took her to an educational psychologist because we knew she was having learning issues. We knew something was wrong. She was coming home in tears and insistent that she was trying as hard as she could and actually vocalized that she felt that some of the other children had some kind of magic that she didn't have, that the teacher would say what to do, explain a project, explain the next steps. And they all seem to get on with it. And she didn't know where to start. The teacher said she was daydreaming, spacey, you know, et cetera. I told the ed psych, after doing research of my own, I thought she had auditory processing issues and that she had ADD inactive, which was what they called ADHD without the H six years ago before they started looking at it as presenting differently than the typical hyperactive boy diagnosis. And the ed psych came out and said, no, it wasn't ADHD. Everybody kept saying she's just not trying hard enough. She was trying so hard and she would force herself to try and focus. And because she was bright, because she was trying so hard, she was succeeding just enough for them to say, no, she didn't have it. Bob: So you said that you noticed things about Siobhan, and the way she was participating in school and what she was doing at home, that kind of made you think I wonder what's going on here. How about for Siobhan? Did she seem to recognize anything? Did she know that things weren't going for her the way they might? Christine: Yes. I think for a while she has not had a great sense of self-esteem around schoolwork, around homework. And I think for a long time, she also was confused about exactly what was going on and probably frustrated by all the negative feedback coming her way, both from her teachers and from us at home, honestly. Because I, too, thought it had a lot to do with her not working hard enough, not applying herself. Amanda: We often think of ADHD as sort of a boy thing. Did that have anything to do with ADHD not necessarily being on your radar? Christine: I think so. I think that's what's in the public perception, right? That it's a boy who's kind of bouncing off the walls. Bob: When it is a girl, it usually stands out a lot when they have that hyperactivity or the impulsivity, that sort of stuff, because it's so counter to sort of what we stereotypically expect from girls. But what you describe is so much more frequently what girls experience in school when they have ADHD. Amanda: I want to pause here for a second just to note that even when a girl does have what people think of a more typically boy kind of ADHD, she may not get the support she needs. This is something we heard about from Rob. His daughter, who's college-age now, had a lot of difficulties in school that only later were attributed to ADHD. Rob: You know, particularly when she went to Catholic school, the first- and second-grade teachers that we had seemed to have this expectation that little girls are all like A, B, and C, and my daughter was doing D, E, and F. And like the second-grade teacher told me flat out, in my 25 years of teaching, I've never encountered a little girl like that. And I was like, well, gee, that's really sad. You know, that your experience has been so limited. Bob: Have you had teachers talk to you about ADHD in girls and kind of how they look at it? Christine: No, not at all. I don't feel like any of her teachers really have expertise in this area. It's more me and my husband. Christine: Telling them what we have figured out along the way.Amanda: Christine told us that figuring this all out has been a slow and sometimes frustrating process. Partly that's just the reality of being a working parent raising young kids. Siobhan has two younger siblings. Christine: One time, I was very proud of myself because I had carved out this time to spend with her on homework. It's very hard at home because we have so much going on. So I had kind of left work early or something. The babysitter was going to be with our other kids and we were gonna sit down in a coffee shop so I could focus on homework with her and there weren't gonna be all these million interruptions. And she couldn't focus. And I was so frustrated that even despite having, you know, done all these things to set the stage, her mind kept wandering. And I was later telling the learning specialist at her school about that. And the learning specialist said to me, well, you may not realize it, but in a coffee shop setting, there's all kinds of other stimulus coming at her — people talking, you know, cappuccino machine, all these other things going on. And they're taking her attention away. And that was kind of an aha moment for me. Oh, right. Even those little things. Bob: An even bigger aha moment came when Christine took Siobhan to be evaluated by a neurologist. First, he went over the school's reports and assessments on her.Christine: And then he did one of those computerized tests where she sits in front of a computer and it's an attention test. And she had to press the spacebar when one of two stars came up. And that was the only thing that was happening on the screen: two stars. And I was sitting behind her and she totally bombed it, you know. That was another really telling moment for me where it was like, wow, there's no effort that goes into this beyond attention. There's nothing to figure out. There's, you know, nothing challenging to me about this. And yet she really could not sustain her attention. Bob: So from that evaluation, Siobhan got an ADHD diagnosis and now she gets some extra support at school. Amanda: But having a name and a language for what makes some things hard for her hasn't meant that Siobhan's insecurities just went away. Christine: Yes. And now that she's a couple years older, when I was talking about before, where she doesn't have a great sense of self-esteem around schoolwork, I think that's only gotten more pronounced. And now she can articulate things a little bit better and so she'll actually say to me, well, there's not really anything about school that I'm really good at. You know, and then she'll list the things that she's not good at. And she'll describe to me instances where she's experiencing symptoms. Like she was in band the other day, and the other clarinet players were nudging her because she had spaced out when it was her turn to come in, or she took a test and she realized that she couldn't concentrate because other students were whispering and she was sitting near the door to the hallway, which was open, and there was noise going back and forth. Amanda: Bob, while we were working on this episode, we talked a lot with our colleague Laura about what it's like to be a girl with ADHD. Bob: That's right. Laura didn't figure out that she had ADHD until she was 30. And that delay in the diagnosis led to a lot of pain and anxiety that perhaps could have been avoided. Laura: Growing up, I didn't know that I had ADHD. It was something that I had heard of. But it wasn't something that we talked about a lot, especially not in the Midwest. I don't know. The attitude was just, you know, work harder. Play sports. Study more, that kind of thing. And I definitely latched on to that. Growing up, I really busted my butt to get perfect grades and to be a student athlete and a leader at school. But all the while, I was really suffering because it was just so hard to focus. Laura: And it's funny, I look back now at my journals from when I was in middle school and high school, and I would see that I would scribble the word "focus" all over them. And yet it still didn't really click for me that something like that was going on. And I just developed these really perfectionistic ways of doing things. You know, I would like give myself fake deadlines so that I would work extra hard and give myself extra time to do things to the best of my ability. And it worked like on paper. I was very successful, if you like, looked at my grades, if you looked at how it did in sports and how it was with friends. But deep down, I was really sad and stressed out and anxious all the time. Laura: And it wasn't until I got diagnosed when I was 30 that I finally realized what was happening and it really clicked for me. I was like, wow, this is what was happening the entire time. Bob: What do you want teachers to know about your daughter? Or what do you want them to do for your daughter in their classes? Christine: So my daughter has a tutor who comes from a company that focuses on executive functioning. And I wish that those skills were taught in school. Amanda: Tell us what those skills are that she's working on with that tutor.Christine: Focus, organization, being able to sustain a task, being able to switch from one task to another, being able to organize materials like a backpack, things like that.Amanda: We are keeping you as the person who now describes executive functioning skills. That's perfect.Bob: Exactly. Amanda: Like that was spot on. How has knowing that Siobhan has ADHD affected how you interact with her and parent her? Christine: I do try to dig extra deep to find that patience. I definitely do not always find it, but I try. It affects how I analyze the situation afterwards and see the different factors that were at play. Amanda: Do you ever talk to her about those different factors, or I guess what I'm asking is do you ever go back and have those conversations after you have been impatient.Christine: Yes, absolutely. Amanda: What do they sound like in your house? Christine: Look, I'm really sorry that I was so angry with you for X, Y, and Z. You shouldn't have done X, Y, and Z, but I shouldn't have reacted in that way. I say that a lot.Amanda: I say that a lot, too. Yeah. Christine: Feel like it's the next best thing if you can't muster the 100 percent patience that you want to in this situation, then five minutes later, when you've cooled off a little bit, you can. Amanda: That's a great advice. That's really good advice. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood. If you want to learn more about ADHD, go back and listen to some of our other episodes, like the one that answers the question "Is ADHD real?" Or our interview with Tumaini Coker, a researcher who looks into ADHD in communities of color. Bob: We'd like to hear what you think of our show. "In It" is for you. And we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find resources. That's the letter "U," as in Understood, dot O R G slash podcast.Amanda: You can subscribe to "In It" on Apple Podcast. Follow us on Spotify. Or keep up with us however you listen to podcasts. And while you're there, please take a moment to rate and review us. Amanda: It's a great way to let other people know about "In It." And if you like what you heard today, please also tell somebody about it. Anyone you think should hear it. Maybe even your kids. Bob: Between episodes, you can find understood on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, and YouTube. Or visit our website. U, that's the letter "U," dot O R G. Our show is produced by Julie Subrin and Sara Ivry. Mike Errico wrote our theme music and Laura Kusyner is our executive director of editorial content. Amanda: Thanks for listening everyone, and a big thank you to everyone who called in and shared your story. Bob: "In It" is a production of Understood.
I just found out my child has slow processing speed. Now what?
Having slow processing speed has nothing to do with how smart kids are — just how quickly they can take in and use information. If you’ve just learned your child has slow processing speed, these steps can help you understand what that means and how you can help.Learn all you can about processing speed.Processing speed is the pace at which your child takes in information, makes sense of it, and begins to respond. This information can be visual, such as letters and numbers. It can also be auditory, such as spoken language.Find answers to your questions about slow processing speed and learn how brain structure and chemistry can affect processing speed. Investigate potential treatments and therapies for slow processing speed.Read an expert’s explanation on how processing speed can improve. Talk to your child’s doctor, school, and specialists about ways to help your child improve processing speed, such as working on organization, time management, and planning skills. An organizational coach may also be able to help with these skills.Discuss supports and services with the school.Schedule a meeting with the school to talk about whether your child is eligible for special education services. Bring any reports you may have from doctors or specialists. These could help with the IEP or 504 plan process, which would allow your child to get accommodations for slow processing speed. The school may have done its own evaluation, too. (If not, find out how to request a free educational evaluation.)Keep in mind that slow processing speed on its own typically doesn’t make a child eligible for an IEP or a 504 plan. But slow processing speed can go hand in hand with other learning and thinking differences that do qualify. Find out what to do if you’re concerned your child may have a learning or thinking difference.If your child doesn’t qualify for supports at school, you may have to demonstrate to your child’s teachers how much your child’s processing speed is affecting their school performance. Together you can discuss informal supports that can help in the classroom. (Read one mom’s story of how informal supports helped her daughter go from F’s to A’s.)Teach your child to self-advocate.It’s key for your child to develop the ability to speak up for what they need, both in and out of school. Help your child recognize their strengths and challenges. Then talk about what self-advocacy can look like in grade school, middle school, and high school. Helping your child come up with a self-advocacy script can be a good way to start.Understand the possible emotional impact.It’s not uncommon for kids with slow processing speed to experience anxiety. Read about the connection between slow processing speed and anxiety, and how to help. Learn about the signs of anxiety and depression at different ages. Don’t wait to contact your child’s doctor if you have concerns.Find ways to help with slow processing speed at home.It may take kids who struggle with processing speed a lot longer than other kids to perform tasks in daily life. Hear from one parent who learned to respect her son’s processing speed and change the pace of life at home. And explore a collection of tips to help kids work through everyday challenges, including organization, managing time, and daily routines.Stay in touch with the school.This can help you keep an eye on whether supports and services are working. Keep in mind that you may have to remind teachers that processing speed can vary from task to task. So while your child may be fast with one task, they may work more slowly on another. For instance, they may need help keeping up with note-taking. If so, you could share these note-taking strategies for kids with slow processing speed.Find support.Visit your local Parent Training and Information Center (PTI) to learn about other potential services near you.
In ItParenting the kids you have: One mom’s story
A child’s learning or thinking difference can take any parent by surprise. One mom shares how her daughter’s diagnosis changed her parenting. Most parents start their parenting journey with ideas of what it will be like, and what their kids will be like. But what happens when your expectations don’t match reality? How do things change when you find out your child has a learning or thinking difference? In this episode, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek welcome Suzie Glassman, a writer and mom of two kids. Suzie shares how her parenting changed after her daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia. Find out how she parents to meet the needs of the kids she has, rather than the kids she thought she’d have. Learn how she celebrates her kids for who they are, and how she’s letting go of parenting shame.Related resources Parenting guilt: Tips to get past itDyslexia: Ways to help your child at homeMore stories from Suzie: Parenting the neurodivergent kids I have, not the kids I thought I’d haveMy daughter’s dyslexia showed me I was doing parent-teacher conferences all wrongEpisode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs... Rachel: ...the ups and downs,Gretchen: ...of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor with a family that's definitely in it. Today, we're talking about learning to parent the kids you have... Gretchen: ...as opposed to the kids you maybe thought you'd have, before your actual kids came along. Rachel: Our guest today is Suzie Glassman, a journalist who wrote a beautiful story for Understood on this topic. Gretchen: Suzie has a son she says can be somewhat impulsive, and a daughter — two years younger — who has a diagnosis of dyslexia and ADHD. Rachel: We're so grateful she joined us on the podcast for this very honest conversation about learning to be the parent your kids need. Gretchen: Suzie, welcome to "In It." Suzie: Thank you! Gretchen: We're so excited to talk with you today. And so we're going to take things back all the way to the beginning. Suzie: OK! Gretchen: So, when you began your journey as a mom — first with your son and then with a second child, your daughter — tell us how you pictured them, what you imagined they would be like, what you imagined parenting would be like? Suzie: I mean, it's a good question because especially with their first child, I didn't really have a huge picture of what motherhood was going to be like. I just thought that I would have sort of normal kids with normal behavior and everybody thinks that they're going to be the shining example of, you know, you see what everybody else does and "Oh, I'll never do that kind of thing."Gretchen: Right! Suzie: But I certainly didn't expect some of the challenges. Rachel: So, when did you start to notice that things weren't going exactly as you had imagined they would go or that you had kind of planned even if you didn't even realize you were planning? Do any particularly frustrating moments stand out? Suzie: I mean, the things that stand out to me, it was when I had them both, right? They're 23 months apart. So, when they got to be around two and four, at playdates or playgroups. I had one who would cling to me, right? And another, you know, he would be rambunctious or, the other kids would sort of follow along and do the craft and my kid's off running circles around the room. And it's kind of like, "Ugh, everyone's staring at me." And, you know, in a restaurant, like my kid's the one who's like, throwing everything on the floor and we're lucky if we get 20 minutes before we're, like, panicking and where's the bill? And we have to leave. And then I would just sort of pay attention to these other kids who would just sit quietly and color. And mine wouldn't do that. Yeah, I mean that's kind of when I first started to notice and then there became a lot of "What am I doing wrong?" Right. It became a lot more... not so much "What's different about them?" as "What are these parents doing that I'm not?" Gretchen: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Looking at other parents and wondering, right? I know a lot of us do that as parents. So when you're going to these places and you notice like, you know, you said your son's like running around while everyone else is doing the craft, like, did you try to make them fit the mold of all these other kids? Suzie: Yeah, I think I did for a long time. So, I would get frustrated or upset or like, bribe. Like "OK, if you just sit down and do this, when we leave we'll get ice cream," right? You know, all of those sorts of things, giving them, you know, an iPad or a tablet at a restaurant just to get them to sit in a seat long enough for my husband and I to have a conversation and enjoy a meal. So, there was a lot of what I would say, I guess, you know, the word is bribing them to behave in the way that I wanted them to. Or like "Well, wait till we get home" and "If you can't behave then you're not going to get your favorite treat" or "You're not going to get to watch Sesame Street" or whatever it was, right? So, it was either bribing them with rewards or threatening them with punishment. And none of it works, by the way. None of it works. Gretchen: Yeah, it never does. Suzie: It never does, it never does. Gretchen I know, it really doesn't. Rachel: So, what happened then that led you to change your approach? Did you have like an "aha" moment that sometimes come to us when we least expect it, where you were just kind of like, "Oh OK, like maybe this is what it is, this is what I have to look at" versus just like "I'm doing it wrong." Suzie: Right, I want to say the "aha" moment came much later. I wish it had come sooner, but it was really when my daughter got diagnosed. So, they had started school. My son is pretty neurotypical, especially when it comes to school, so learning was pretty easy for him. He learned to read very easily. He's an advanced reader and he's two years ahead of her. So, when she started school and things were not easy for her, in my head, I thought, "Well, maybe she's normal and he's advanced and this is just how it's supposed to be." And then like many people, when the pandemic hit and they were home for school, I could see like, "Oh, this is not normal." She's not keeping up with her class. These struggles that she's having with reading, they go well past where she should be by this point, and she was in third grade. And so that's when we had her tested. And that — when I learned that she has dyslexia and then later we went into the ADHD diagnosis — that was the light bulb moment that became, "OK, she's not just misbehaved or can't pay attention, I think this is the way her brain works."And so that's what really led me to start thinking that all of these expectations and sort of dreams that I had for them are going to have to change. Rachel: So, did your son get a diagnosis as well? Suzie: Sort of. I mean, I would say he could potentially have ADHD. He's never been through the formal evaluation process. She was nine, he was 11. Some of it was like, well, is he just, you know, a boy and these are normal boy behaviors? I do think that he might have some mild — more with impulsivity and things like that — issues. But certainly not in the way that she does. Rachel: Got it. So when you got this dyslexia diagnosis, how did you feel? Suzie: You know, on the one hand, it felt somewhat devastating and on the other hand, it felt like a huge relief. And I will say that the relief came in the fact that, from, since kindergarten, I had these gut instincts that said "Something's not right here." But for years, her teachers were like, "She's fine, she's fine. She'll catch up, like, she's normal," you know? And then to have that validated, all the feelings that I'd had about her is like a flood of just like, tears wash over me in the sense that, like, I'm not crazy, right? And then, you know, the devastation part was an interesting feeling that I had to examine in myself. And that's when I started really thinking, I'm like, I remember saying to my sister in law like "She's just not going to be a straight-A student." And that's because I was, and learning for me was easy, a bit effortless. I think I was a little bit heartbroken that school was going to be hard for her in a way that now — since I know so much more about dyslexia and somewhat of the advantages it gives her — I don't feel that same heartbreak that I did. But I mean, to be honest, when I first learned it was a bit of panic and fear. You know, I remember someone telling me "This is not a diagnosis that means like, that she's not capable of anything." But I think there's just when you know very little about it, it can definitely be scary. Rachel: Yeah. And I think that fear is such a big part of, like, the hurdle, right? Like to even get to like, "So now what?" Like, that's a lot to process. Suzie: Yeah, it is a lot to process. It's gotten easier, for sure, like that was about three years ago. And I would say even then it wasn't maybe until about a year ago when I heard this concept of "parenting the child that you have," right? and not not the child that you want. So even though I knew how they were, and I say they because when they're together they feed off each other. So I love telling the story of when we were in one of those like big department stores shopping for winter coats. And my kids are just running all over the store and hiding in the clothing racks and giggling and just one of those classic, embarrassing parent moments that's like, "Oh my gosh, why can't my kids just sit down, right?" And so, any little bit of hyperactivity he has when they're together, it's just like explosive. And I remember hearing that comment like "Parent the child you have," made me really want to understand more about how they tick, who they are, and what they need, versus what I think they should be. Rachel: So, once you kind of had that in your mind, how did that or did it change your approach to parenting? Like, what did that mindset do for you? Suzie: I would say it changed things quite significantly because I stopped yelling at this behavior that they can't necessarily control. You know, we try to watch a movie or spend some time together, and the fact that my daughter needs to get up and she loves to flip around on the couch and she's just always doing cartwheels and just getting that same energy out, the classic, you know, she's driven by a motor sort of thing. And that thing used to really irritate me. And now it's like, "That is who she is," right? You know, we're watching a movie, she's paying attention and like, she's not being disruptive. She's just behind the couch doing cartwheels, right? And so I'm not fighting that so much anymore. I have been lucky enough or are maybe smart enough to surround her with other teachers and instructors who get that, and so who are also accepting of sort of the energy breaks that she needs, or understanding that she may not be looking directly at you, but she is paying attention. And then with my son, you know, same sort of thing, but really trying to understand the things that he enjoys, the things that motivate him. And I will say, one of the biggest things that that happened is I gave up on grades being this sign of success and achievement and more focusing more on effort than grades. I understand that, for my daughter who can put in 3 to 4 times the effort and not get the grade, that my son who can just study for ten minutes and pull out and A. So I don't reward the grades. I really look to reward effort more so than anything else. Yeah. Rachel: Just one thing you said kind of caught my ear about, you know, like the constant movement when you're watching TV or just kind of like not having those experiences in the kind of conventional way or the way you may have pictured it. And you mentioned something in one of your articles that's on Understood where you said like "People aren't going to remember her because she ran up and down the aisles during the movie" right? Like, that's not the thing. And so, it's kind of like choosing your battles and it's like, that's an OK thing to just kind of let go. Suzie: Yeah, absolutely. It's like learning to let go of those things that you think are sort of conventional norms. Like, you're in this environment and this is how you're supposed to behave, and if you don't, then there should be punishment or consequence. And now it's like, "OK, well, if you're not hurting anything." I like to think about in doctor's offices, I used to just be mortified because they love to sit on the doctor's chair that, like, spins around, you know? And I'd be like, "No, you have to sit on the table!" And I'm like, "Fine, spin around in the chair."It's just kind of letting go of some of those things. And I think it's enhanced our relationship because they have more trust in me to understand them and not to just yell at these behaviors that sometimes they just can't control. Rachel: I want to talk about parent-teacher conferences for a minute, because you wrote a piece for us about realizing that you had to change your approach to those meetings. That maybe what you were looking for and expecting was getting in the way of some of those harder conversations you needed to have. Can you talk to us about those conferences with your daughter's teachers? Suzie: Of course. So one of the things that I believe — and you guys probably know this more than I do, with girls and ADHD — is that a lot of times they go under the radar because they can be very well-behaved in class. Rachel: Yup.Suzie: Because, you know, she's obviously a little bit, have that inattentive, but also her processing speed is also very slow. So she doesn't interrupt, right? She doesn't — these classical sort of boy behaviors that get them in trouble and obviously girls do them, too but, you know — act out, interrupt, talk in class a lot. Like, she doesn't talk very much, she's very well-behaved because she's actually afraid to speak up, right? She's afraid to blurt out an answer because she doesn't think that she knows it. So parent-teacher conferences, especially in the beginning for her, because my son had always had that "He talks too much," right. So for her, it was like "We just love your daughter," you know, "She's so great, she's so sweet," which is all those things that you want to hear, as a parent. So you realize after you left, like wait, we didn't even talk about her academics or how she's doing. And I don't know, I read somewhere that, you know, teachers don't get a lot of training in how to deliver kind of what might be considered bad news or concerns or things like that. So when they're looking at a child like my daughter — who's just very much kind of in line with how they're supposed to be — and then maybe she's not reading aloud in class or maybe she is, you know, not she's a little bit behind the others, but not a lot. She's not very vocal, so I don't think she just called any attention to herself. So those parent-teacher conferences, initially were like "Oh, great!" right? And then we had one in second grade, I remember, and it was in the spring. It was right before everything shut down for Covid. And her school, they don't get grades in elementary school. It's like "Meets expectations," "Doesn't meet or like, exceed expectations," right? And everything was like "Approaching expectations."And I asked the teachers like, "Well, what does it mean, like 'approaching expectations?'" Because I said, "Well, what if she finishes second grade and she's 'approaching expectations?' does that mean she's not, she didn't learn what she was supposed to learn?" Like, I didn't understand. Rachel: Right. Suzie: Is the first I ever thought to like, question this, and...Rachel: Yeah, is a good question. Suzie: Right! And her teacher was, again, I got the like "Well she doesn't score well on the test, but from what I see in the classroom, she's fine." So it became maybe like, well, maybe she's just an anxious test-taker. And when we left, I still felt really uneasy and we scheduled a meeting with the principal to talk to him because I was like, "I don't, I'm not getting clear answers." Like, don't know what "approaching expectations" means. I don't know, you know, talking about things we're seeing at home, like she reads really slowly, she's exhausted, you know, after reading four lines of text, right? all of these things. And he said, you know, the last words were like, "Well, we'll look into it," right? And then Covid happened. Yeah. And then she was home, which, you know, which then led me to get her evaluated. But that was kind of our parent-teacher conference leading up to that. And I notice even now — you know, now that she has the diagnosis — there's still a bit of a fear I notice on teachers. I try to make them more comfortable because they don't want to say like, "OK, well, she tested in that, I think she was like 13th percentile for oral reading fluency." And I'm like, "No, that's OK!" I feel like I'm reassuring them in a way. Like, I understand that's where we're at, let's deal with that in a way. So parent-teacher conferences are still interesting, and I think there's a lot that could be done. I don't blame the teachers at all. I just think that there's not a lot of training in how do we talk to parents about these issues? Rachel: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned earlier, you referred to your daughter's dyslexia as having plus sides or kind of like some benefits. And so, I wondered, what have you discovered about both of your kids in terms of like their strengths or their, you know, we say sometimes superpowers that you didn't see before when you were maybe more focused on like what was going wrong, that now you see as like a plus. Suzie: The thing about my daughter that, now that I know her brain works differently, I think I almost seek it out in a way. Like she and I will have these conversations where I'm like, "Wow, that's, you know, that's really interesting thought, like, tell me more." Whereas at first I might be like "Well, that's not accurate" you know, or like, you know, she would say something about the moon and I would be like "No, the moon is this." And then now it's like, oh, let's see, trying to see things more through her lens and the way she sees the world. And it's really interesting, she talks about like, she'll see a car and be like, "I wonder how they came up with the design for that car," right? Or so be like, "I wonder who invented that." She's talking about stuff like that all the time. Whereas I might be in the past like, "Well, just Google it," right? and now it's like, "Well, who do you think?" Now it's like, "What do you think they were thinking? Right? And I, like I'm just so into and she's like, "Mom, why are you asking me questions?" I'm like, just "Your brain, like, it's so fascinating to me I just want to understand," right? Oh, and the other thing I would say about my daughter that I think is really cool is she's very intuitive in a way about how other people are feeling. And so she has this really cool way of saying, and she's in middle school now, and she'll talk about some of the drama or something. And I'll say, "Well, are you OK? Did that affect you?" And she's like, "Mom, she's 12, she's just going through something," right? And it's like... right? she's just very like sympathetic... Rachel: Wise beyond her years, right? Suzie: Yeah, exactly. Like very forgiving of people. Very, like, understanding of when somebody is in a place. And for my son, I think one of the differences I look at is what is it about the things that he gravitates to just on his own without any prompting? He loves facts, figures. He has good like, memorization skills, those sorts of things. And I think some of his strengths are also like he's very much a leader. He's always had kids that just kind of gravitate to him. He loves being around kids, you know, those things that before I would have maybe not thought so much as a strength, but now I see that as things like in the future, like "Hey, you could really work with kids." And he loves like broadcasting or things like that, because he can remember facts really well. So, those are things to me that I play up more than just, you know, getting a good grade in science. It's like, OK, what you know, what are the skills that you have that are really going to serve you well in life? And then how can we develop those in ways that will make you even stronger? Rachel: That's great. I mean, I love that, you know, you have this you know, this angle now of parenting the kids you have and really focusing on their strengths. We talk a lot about that at Understood. But we all don't do that right from the start. You know, as parents, we might have faltered and I know you've written a little bit about some of the shame you might have felt of feeling like you were trying to fit your kids into what you saw as the norm. So, what advice do you have about parents who might regret something that they had done in the past or like, you know, or feeling shameful about how they might have parented their kids before they knew about their diagnosis? Suzie: Yeah, I will echo that, that is a very valid way to feel. It's honest and it's upsetting sometimes to think like, oh I remember back to just these battles, these homework battles we would have, right? And "You're just not paying attention" and "You're not trying hard enough" and "You're just being lazy and you're so smart, why don't you get this?" Right? And I did feel a lot of guilt and regret over that because none of that was her fault. She was actually probably trying harder than any kid, right? Because no child doesn't want to please their parent, right? Like she was trying really hard. But the way I handled that, I remember maybe six months or so later, I just apologized to her, right? And she was nine and I don't know how much she understood, but, you know, I just said "Hey, like I realized that I was treating you this way and I want you to know that I see how hard you are trying and I see the effort you put in. And I know that you were doing your best and I'm sorry I didn't recognize that and I didn't treat you that way. And, you know, just like I'm really going to try to understand you and understand what you're going through. And also I'm going to try to get you all of the help that you need to be successful and to understand, you know, that you're not dumb or any of these things that you might have thought, you know?" And I remember her response was like, "OK!", you know, that I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure somewhere along the line, like it really sunk in. Rachel: No, they get it. Suzie: Yeah, yeah. She did get it. And then it's just kind of forgiving myself. And then, I will say, because I know Understood has the "Wunder Community," I think finding other parents — or as myself, a mom, other moms — has been one of the biggest things that I could have done for myself to understand, like, "OK, I'm not on an island here." When I started talking about her diagnosis, I found maybe five people in my neighborhood whose children were also either dyslexic or ADHD. One had an auditory processing disorder. And so all of a sudden, I had a network I didn't know was out there and I will say that has been one of the saving graces of all of this. It's you know, I can put out there "Guys I'm looking for, I need a tutor, you know, who knows Orton-Gillingham" or, you know, some of these instructional methods that are great for kids with dyslexia. And then, you know, says, "Oh, try this person" or, you know, and sometimes it's just finding like "I'm looking for... she, you know, she needs to get tested for this, like, where can I go?"Or saying like, "Hey, you know, my child's doing this. Is it normal?" Right? And then just having people come back and say, "Yeah, I'm going through that, too." I know you guys were talking a lot about the holidays coming up and how to deal with sensory processing challenges and, you know, some of these things that like make us feel very ashamed as a parent. Like, especially when you're with family and family can be sometimes the most judgmental of all. But then just kind of being able to call a friend and laugh about it, right? Like my mother-in-law, she's like insisting we do this, right? And then you just kind of laugh and it just eases the tension a bit. So, yeah, I would definitely say there's nothing to be embarrassed about. There's so many kids. And I think the more that we recognize that and the more community we build, the better off we all are. Rachel: Yeah. Suzie: Yeah. Gretchen: And I just love your advice and story about the apology. You know, I just, I feel like no one ever apologized to me when I was a kid, you know, like, I don't think that was something people did. Suzie: No! Gretchen: But like we do it now and I think it's good like to just acknowledge like we all make mistakes and we're all still learning. Suzie: Yeah. Well, you know what's cool is that when you apologize to them, I think they learn to apologize to you, right? In a way, like last night, you know, she's in dance and after dance, she was kind of rude to me, right? And she's also 12. But, I mean, maybe 10-15 minutes after she calmed down, she came back and said, "Mom, I'm really sorry." Right? And I think that she learned that from like, sort of me and her dad modeling that behavior to her, so.Gretchen: Yeah. That's awesome. You got an apology for tween-teen behavior. Suzie: Right, right. Yeah. Rachel: Well, thank you so much for talking about all this, Suzie. Gretchen: Yes, Thank you so much. Suzie: Yeah, well, thank you guys for having me. I could talk all day, all day about this, so I appreciate it. Rachel: If you want to read Suzie's articles about parenting the kids you have and about changing your own approach to parent-teacher conferences, we've got links to those and other related articles in our show notes. Gretchen: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network. Rachel: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you. Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out our show notes. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently, discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission. Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Ilana Millner is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Ericco wrote our theme music. Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.
Can my child get an IEP for slow processing speed?
Slow processing speed can be very hard on kids. It doesn’t automatically qualify them for an IEP, however. Processing speed issues must impact their ability to learn and perform at school in order for them to get an IEP based on slow processing speed alone.An IEP is part of special education. To get one, your child must be evaluated and found to have one of the 13 conditions that qualify as disabilities.Slow processing speed isn’t one of those conditions. But if it’s having a big impact on your child’s ability to learn, it might fall under something called “other health impairment.” On occasion, a child’s challenges might fall under specific learning disability if they’re impacting other areas like math or reading.Kids with slow processing speed often also have learning disabilities and ADHD. Either one of those conditions can lead to an IEP.Even if your child’s school used an intervention system like MTSS (multi-tier system of supports) or RTI (response to intervention), if they’re still struggling, it’s a good idea to have your child evaluated. You can do that at school for free or pay for a private evaluation.The school needs information from you, too. The more they know about how your child’s issues are affecting their progress at school, the better able they’ll be to provide support. Here are some things to think about and relay to the team:Is your child spending hours completing homework every night when other kids can do it much more quickly?Is processing speed an issue all the time or only during school?Have teachers repeatedly reported that your child doesn’t finish classwork?Is your child beginning to misbehave at school to avoid assignments or to avoid embarrassment because they can’t keep up?If the school team decides your child does not qualify for an IEP, your child may qualify for accommodations with a 504 plan. Accommodations like extra time, shorter assignments, and not having to copy from one paper to another can make a big difference.Many kids with slow processing speed start to feel bad about themselves and dislike school because of the pressure to work within a certain period of time. It’s important to help kids understand that slow processing speed doesn’t mean they aren’t smart. You can also tell your child that it can improve with the right support.Find out what to do if your child doesn’t qualify for an IEP. You can also learn more about 504 plans and see examples of accommodations for slow processing speed.
In ItSurviving the holidays with sensory processing challenges
The sights, sounds, and smells of the holiday season can be a lot for some kids. Get expert tips for making the holidays more manageable.While the holiday season can be exciting, it can also stimulate the senses in a way that makes it less fun for some kids. For kids with sensory processing challenges, the holidays can be overwhelming.In this episode, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek welcome returning guest Keri Wilmot. Keri, a pediatric occupational therapist, shares some of the ways the holidays can bring on sensory overload. From costumes to new foods and more, Keri has strategies to help you and your child enjoy the holidays.Related resources How to make a sensory travel kit for your childPicky eating: Why it happens and how to helpSensory processing challenges fact sheetEpisode transcript Gretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs... Rachel: the ups and downs... Gretchen: of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor with a family that's definitely in it. Today, we're talking about how the holidays can rattle the senses. Gretchen: Whether it's a beloved but scratchy Halloween costume, Rachel: or the loud and crowded gatherings that come at the end of the year, Gretchen: holidays can be a real challenge for kids who have sensory sensitivities. Rachel: So, what can we do to make this sensory overwhelm a little easier? For some excellent tips, we've invited Keri Wilmot to join us. Gretchen: Keri is a pediatric occupational therapist based in Texas, who we had on the podcast once before to talk about quote-unquote picky eaters. Rachel: Yeah, you know, that episode was before I was part of the show, but I listened to it and it was super helpful. So, Keri also leads a group over on Wunder, Understood's free community app for parents of kids with learning and thinking differences. And we're so glad she's here with us today. Gretchen: Keri, welcome back to the podcast! Keri: Thanks, Gretchen. Gretchen: So, today, as you know, we're talking about some of the challenges that can come up for kids who have sensory challenges. For some context, though, I was wondering if you could tell us if this is something that comes up for you in your practice as a pediatric occupational therapist. Do you see a lot of anxiety around things like Halloween, Thanksgiving, and all the holidays that come up at the end of the year? Keri: I do. I think as the holidays come closer, you know, especially now that everybody's getting back together in person and we have lots of events. You know, there's trick or treats, family dinners, school orchestras, you know, holiday parties. There's work parties. You know, so I find that there's generally a lot of stress around events. And so, yeah, definitely it is something that I think parents are stressed about. Rachel: So, Keri, we thought it might be useful to break this conversation down by looking at one sense at a time. So, that would mean vision, hearing, touch, smell and taste. So, let's start with one that I don't think people automatically consider first, which would be the sense of smell. What with pumpkin spice everything, scented candles, lots of cooking going on, it seems like there might be some extra triggers during the holidays. What's your experience with that kind of thing? Keri: Yeah, there's lots of different smells, like I think that's kind of the hard part for a lot of kids. They're used to like, maybe one or two smells at a regular family dinner, right? And then you walk into an event, or you're at a family party and there's a whole buffet out there of just so many different things. And so, for kids that I know that have struggled with this, it almost hits them like a brick wall. Rachel: Yeah. Keri: It really shocks them to their core and they're not quiet about it. Even my son will do that. He'll be like, "This smells terrible," you know? Rachel: Right. Keri: And that's like maybe even a nice way to put it, because they're usually like, "Ugh, phew!" So, that is the hard part with smell. Like, is it just, you don't know it's coming, you know? But one of the recommendations that you can usually try to do, and I think a lot of what I'll kind of recommend today is more about that preparation ahead of time. You know, there's always going to be these things with sensory kids that come out of nowhere that you couldn't really predict. But if you think about the whole experience in general, there are some activities and things that you can practice through and problem solve through so that you at least maybe have a strategy in place to try when you get there. So, you know, for smell, a lot of times that might be at home just talking about smell, and going around the house and finding things to smell: different candles, different foods, different shampoos, different lotions, you know, and really just getting a sense of the kinds of smells that your child likes and dislikes. But what's really neat now is they make a lot of scented slimes and pencils. Somebody told me the other day, which I think is a terrible idea, they have scented scissors, you know? Rachel: Oh, no! Why?Keri: I have no idea. That just sounds awful. You know, but for kids, I think it's important to kind of bring something like that. If there's a way to do that in a certain situation, like if it's a family party, find a scent they like in a form that they enjoy, like, you know, scented slime is perfect because it offers that tactile sensory component that helps kids calm down and they can have that scent that maybe replaces the scent that they don't like. Gretchen: I've done that. I've put lavender on my wrists to smell when there's a scent that I don't like. I'm very scent-sensitive, so I get it.Rachel: What about vision? This is another one that I think we don't think about a whole lot. Keri: Yeah, for sure. Again, back to those events. I think when there's a lot of people in the room that are moving about, that is a lot of visual information to process. Same kind of thing like, you know, if you're having a party in the house and there's just decorations all over the place, right? All over the walls, all over the tables, you know, Halloween, you've got these bright orange tablecloths. There's just a lot of different things to look at. And that in itself can be enough for them to just get a little bit overstimulated, not knowing where to look, not knowing where to go, where do I find things? Lots of competing backgrounds. So, just like we might do the same thing in a classroom, I would, you know, say to a teacher, "Hey, we should be mindful of all the information that's going on in here." It would be the same thing at a party. I'm not saying don't have decorations, you know, but just be mindful of kind of where they're placed. Maybe have a space that isn't decorated as much for kids to gravitate towards where they can have a place to calm down and chill out. And then there's the food, right? Like, why does holiday food look so different? It does! I mean, there's kids that, like, you could make chicken the same way, but it's a holiday meal and you're going to add parsley as a garnish, and all of a sudden it's like a game changer. Like, "What is that green speck?" And so... Rachel: Right. Gretchen: Or marshmallows on top of things. Keri: Yeah, exactly. We have these garnishes and these seasonings and, you know, and kids are just really that one little piece they hone in on to, it looks different and they're like, "No way." And I think in the food realm, a lot of people think it automatically is like a tactile taste thing. Like, you know, they don't want to eat it. And it's really sometimes that they just take one look at it and they can't even get beyond the visual piece, never mind get to the actual touching or eating part. They're so turned off by that. And so, I encourage a lot of parents to like when you present kids with food, like really look or an experience, right? Maybe it's those ooey gooey eyeball pasta things that you do at Halloween, you know, like when you present something to them, watch. What's their body language telling you? And so that's something to kind of keep in mind if that visual sense just gets really overwhelmed. So, one way around that is to kind of, again, like practice. You know, for foods, I'll often tell parents "Practice letting them tolerate something sit on their plate." There is no expectation to eat it. There is no expectation to touch it. You can just keep it, even if it has to be on a separate plate next to your plate. Keep it in a place where you can get comfortable looking at it and then when you're done, throw it away. Sometimes it's really just, that's the first step. Gretchen: I really like your tip about when it comes to sights of maybe having a decoration-free room. I feel like it would be good for anybody. It's like a deprivation chamber. Keri: Yeah. Gretchen: You get to go in the room without all the little tchotchkes around and everything and just be like, "Ahhh." Keri: Yeah, I think that should just be a party thing in general, right? Because a lot of the strategies that I have, kids that have sensory issues, they're seeking control, but then they get overwhelmed, you know? And no matter where they go, having a safe space anywhere is really key so that you can redirect them to that room or that space or that place or that, you know, just outside the auditorium or a quiet area where they can have a few minutes. Ideally, if it can be near where the major part of the party is, great! If it has to be in the room a little further away, no problem. You know, you want to prevent that feeling that you have to get in the car and go, right? Like, that you can't go at all. Rachel: Yeah. Keri: That's the struggle for a lot of families that they tell me is "It's a lot of work to get there, and then I'm going to get there, and then I'm going to have to leave in like 5 minutes. And so, we'll just not go." Gretchen: Right. Keri: But it's so important, I think, for kids to have those experiences. But again, it's the preparation and the planning ahead of like, "How can we make this as successful as possible? Knowing yeah, maybe the end result is we're going to have to leave, but maybe we only have to leave in 30 minutes instead of like right away. Gretchen: I want to talk a little bit about our sense of touch. And you kind of brought this up with the gooey stuff that goes on at Halloween sometimes. And for me personally, I love Halloween, and I love all things like that, like fun little haunted house stuff and, you know, touch this random thing, and... But I imagine that there's so many triggers for kids at Halloween, and touch is probably one of them. But then there's other things as well. So, can you talk a little bit about how we might help kids prepare or get through Halloween? Keri: So, in terms of dealing with those tactile issues, I have some really good strategies, right? These are those times where you're making something that has like ingredients. You have to mix with your hands and get all kind of messy. It could be those really fun Halloween ooey, gooey experiments, and that would be like gloves, like just find some like household cleaner gloves or just regular disposable ones. And I think it's OK for kids to know like, you know, "Hey, we can wear gloves and we can still have this experience." Gretchen: That's great. Carving a pumpkin I, ugh, I can't get in there with my hands. Rachel: Pumpkin guts are not your thing? Gretchen: No! So, I use a spoon, big spoon, and now I think I'm going to get a pair of gloves. Keri: Lots of kids like to have a little bit of distance between what they're touching and how they're participating in the activities. So, you know, maybe they don't want to get their hands in like the spaghetti for Halloween, but they might want to poke around in there with like a fork. You know, there's other ways for kids to explore it in utensils. Check out the utensil drawer. There's got to be something in there that you can use.Gretchen: That's great. Keri: For costumes, one of the situations that comes up a lot, it's like they want to be this, you know, important figure in their life that they watch on television, right? And then all of a sudden, you go to the store to find that particular costume that goes along with their hero, you know, And then it's like "There's beads!" You know, a lot of kids, I find, like they don't like things that make noise. They really don't like the T-shirts that have like the plasticky, like apliqués on the front. Gretchen: Like a Superman plastic thing on it. Keri: Yeah, like, depending on how it's made, right? Like, if it's like a not a really super soft T-shirt, and this really like, crunchy stiff apliqué. Rachel: Scratchy. My kids call it scratchy. Keri: They don't like those, you know. And so, whoever like made the ability to have like, die-cut stickers is like a hero at Halloween, right? 20 years ago, we didn't have that option to just get a really super soft T-shirt and print "This is my Halloween costume" and stick it on there, you know? Gretchen: Right. Keri: You know, so I think like now people are so creative with what a costume can be and it can be a T-shirt that they're comfortable wearing with just a saying on it. Rachel: So, while we're on the costume topic, I saw a question come up in the group that you ran on our Wunder app related to this, and here's what it said "What should I do if my child feels different than his friends because they're all wearing a mask trick or treating and he doesn't want to. Should I encourage him to try wearing a mask or figure out another way to handle it?" What's your advice for for someone in this situation? Because I think it happens to a lot of parents. Keri: I think it's a conversation you need to have with your child when they're in a calm place, when they're not stressed out. These are the kinds of conversations, you know, you really want to have. You know, gee, all your friends are going to be wearing this particular mask. Do you want to wear a mask? If they say no, then, you know, I think it's important to kind of respect their wishes not to, you know, and certainly that's a good time to kind of ask why like, well, what is it about the mask that you don't like? Do you think it's scary? You know, but I think it's also important to ask questions that don't necessarily, like put ideas into their head either, right? Like, "Oh, you don't like it because it's scratchy," you know? "Oh, you don't like it because it looks scary." It's hard because, especially as parents, like you kind of have this connection to your child to read their mind, like you can anticipate whatever it is that is probably really the issue. But I think it's important for them as they get older to really, truly understand on their own like what does that feel for me? Because I think the more kids become verbal and the more they get in touch with their feelings and emotions and understand these concepts, you're going to be shocked and surprised at what they can tell you about that experience. Gretchen: Let's get to another area, which is taste. And I know we had you on the show before where we talked about so-called picky eating. But I imagine that if you have an eater in your house who is sensitive, it can be especially challenging around the holidays because there's so many meals that you don't have control over and there's so many opinions by relatives and friends and family about what people should eat at these events, like, you know, the turkey at Thanksgiving or Latkas at Hanukkah, fruitcake at Christmas. So, let's get into that a little bit. How can we help kids prepare for these eating experiences in the holidays? Keri: Yeah, again, preparation. You know, if you can call ahead and find out sort of what's this, you know, menu going to be at the party, then that's a great first step. You know, kind of poke around and try to find out, is there something that your child likes or doesn't like and then fill in the gap, right? What can you bring that sort of meets the requirement of, you know, bringing something to the party that also, you know, is something that you kind of know your child will eat, even if it's just a couple bites of it? Aside from that kind of knowing the menu ahead of time, then you can prepare it at home, right? You can you can make that thing at home. You can try to make other foods at home that you might expect to be there, although they're never truly always the same, right? Like, how can mashed potatoes like, taste so different? Gretchen: Needs salt. Keri: I know, right? It tastes better when somebody else makes them. But, you know, I think it's really important again, to just try those experiences and kind of like jumping back to where we were talking about that visual aspect before, you know, I feel like people are always kind of looking like, what, is their plate full? Like, did they eat enough? You know? And so, like, that's a conversation you can have with your child too, like, "Look, I don't care if you eat it or you don't eat it, but hey, can you just put it on your plate? Because I bet, like, if it fills up some space, like people are just going to think you're eating and it's OK, you know? And then when nobody's looking, just go throw it away, you know?" And so, like, it's when the plate's empty and somebody looks over and they're like, "Why are you not eating?" You know? And so, some of it, I think, could kind of just be like trickery, trickery to the people at the party. Because going to a party is not where you should say, like, "We're going to have 20 bites of this thing that you've never had before." Just set the expectations up amongst yourselves and make sure that it's reasonable and not something that's going to, you know, send kids into like a tizzy because there's an expectation that they're not used to in a place that they're totally unfamiliar with that's going to trigger them to just get overwhelmed. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. You just dug up a memory for me that I didn't even know was in there, and I don't think my mom is listening. But like, there was probably at least five years where I did not eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I just didn't want it. I didn't really like it. And there were years where I did exactly what you just said. I just, like, faked it. I just like, would have it on the plate, perhaps even chewed it, and then kind of like threw it in the napkin. I mean, complete trickery for years. And I'm totally outing that right now. But it was that, it was like I was just like, "Ugh, I don't really want this, but it's going to be a thing if I don't eat it." Keri: Yeah, and it's important too, like it really, again, goes back to conversation, Is there like a little secret look or like, "Hey, if I blow you a kiss, Mom, like that means get me out of here," you know? Rachel: That's great. Keri: You know, how can you work together to sort of overcome this problem? And from the parent perspective, here's the hard part, right? Because everybody wants to judge everybody else, you know, like, "Why do you let them get away with not eating? And how come, you know, this is such a problem, they should just eat," you know? And so, I think as a parent, if you expect it coming, then expect to have an answer, right? Like, what kind of comeback can you put in the queue and practice over and over again? So, if you suspect it's coming, it probably will. You know, how can you divert that to a place that says like, "Yeah, this is just how we do it in our family. We're OK, you know," and change the subject. Or whatever your comeback is. You know, it doesn't have to necessarily be a huge long conversation about, you know, your child's sensory issues, and this is something called tactile defensiveness, and there's a reason why, and we have therapy 5,000 times a month. And, you know, it doesn't have to be your whole life story. But I think a lot of times if you have something witty that you're confident and selling, then it's going to divert that pretty quick. Rachel: I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Comebacks are really helpful to have. OK, So, last but not least, we're going to talk about hearing and sounds and we've got plenty of jokes out there about the oppressiveness of hearing holiday songs on repeat in every store you walk into during the holidays or like starting in October. So, for kids who have noise or sound sensitivity, are there other ways that the holidays can be hard?Keri: Oh, absolutely. Again, you know, there's only a few times a year where my KitchenAid mixer makes it to the counter. So, you know, appliances like blenders, you know, like mixers, those especially blenders, you know — that kind of falls in line with the hair dryer and the vacuum cleaner category — but the types of sounds that really trigger kids are those really loud, unexpected, either high frequency or low-frequency sounds. Like high frequency would be like a siren, like an alarm or low frequency is like your blender that, you know, like real loud, deep one. The other part about those sounds that sets kids off is like, generally, sensory kids don't have great body and space awareness. So, when those sounds come on and come out of nowhere, it's like they're being attacked, you know, like they can't locate where that sound is coming from right away. And so, a lot of times it sets off that like panic fight flight fright response, where they are just terrified. And so, the important piece for that is, again, control, you know, like, "OK, hey, I'm going to turn this blender on. It's going to be on for 2 minutes. So, do you want to go upstairs, like in the furthest point of the house, and hang out there while I do this? Do you want to just watch from over there so you can see what's going on? Do you want to push the button? Like, do you want to turn this on? You can turn it off in 5 seconds and then go back upstairs." And a lot of times kids are, they feel so much better about it when they can control it. Rachel: Yeah. Gretchen: Yep. Turn it on, then run away. Keri: Just make sure the top's on. Yeah. Yeah. So, for sounds, it's again, it's control. And noise-canceling headphones are super cool now. You know, like 20 years ago nobody wore over-the-ear headphones and so, I think it's a little bit more socially acceptable you know for kids to wear those. And so, if they have to wear those, they have like, you know, a phone that's hooked up to those headphones where they can listen to, again, music that they like that drowns out the sounds of music that they don't like. It's really about finding those coping mechanisms that help make you feel good. I mean, that's what we would do, right? You know, And so I think it's important to just give kids those strategies and let them know, like, hey, it's OK to be different. We all have likes and differences, but let's just try to come up with a way to respond where we're not, you know, stressing people out because you're screaming and yelling when the blender is going on in the kitchen. Rachel: Totally. Wow. Keri, you're giving us so much great stuff to take away with us.Gretchen: I think I'm going to take away the not having decorations in one corner area and also thinking next time as you're sprinkling the parsley on top, does that really need to be there? Maybe there could be a side bowl with a parsley and a spoon and folks can put it on themselves. Rachel: Yes, I do that a lot with like side things where it's like kind of this add-on that you wouldn't have at a regular dinner, but in my recipe at Christmas time, there's extra garnish or whatever. I'll do like half of them with. Gretchen: That sounds great. Well, Keri, thank you so much for being with us today and talking about this important topic as the holidays come. Rachel: Thank you so much. Keri: Oh, thanks for inviting me to be here. Rachel: If you found this conversation helpful, you might also get a lot out of the group Keri leads on our Wunder app. It's called "Ask an Expert: Movement and Sensory Challenges," and you can find it by downloading the Wunder app. That's W-U-N-D-E-R.Gretchen: You can also find some great free resources about sensory processing challenges on our website Understood.org. One of my favorites is a sensory travel kit, and we've got a download and a video on how to make one for your child. Rachel: Love it. We will share a link to that and lots more in our show notes. Gretchen: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network. Rachel: This show is for you. So, we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you. Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out our show notes. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission.Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Ilana Millner is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Ericco wrote our theme music. Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.
How to talk to your child about slow processing speed
Many parents worry that talking to their child about their learning and thinking differences, or “labeling” them, will make them feel worse. But kids tend to take comfort in knowing there’s a reason — and a name — for their struggles. That’s especially true for kids with slow processing speed.It can be hard for kids to understand why it takes them so long to finish a test or answer a question. Even the term “slow processing speed” can be tricky to explain. Anything that implies someone is “slower than” seems negative. But you can help your child see their challenges in a different light and understand their strengths as well.Before you talk to your child, however, it’s important to know exactly where and how slow processing is impacting them. Slow processing speed can affect kids in different areas. These include verbal, visual, academic, and motor skills.Here are a few things to keep in mind when you talk to your child.Explain what processing speed is — and isn’t.Processing speed is how long it takes to get things done. All people do things at a different pace. Some talk fast and some talk slower, for instance. But these differences can make things difficult in school where doing things quickly is often important.Tell your child that processing speed isn’t the same as intelligence. We often equate intelligence with doing things quickly. This isn’t true. Intelligence is how we solve problems, and how we talk about and understand the world around us. Many smart people have slower processing speed. In fact, there are lots of tasks and jobs that require a slower, more thoughtful approach.It’s important to let your child know that having processing speed differences does not mean their brain or mind doesn’t work well. Be sure they know they’re just as smart as their classmates (maybe smarter!) and they may just have difficulty in this area.Tell your child that processing speed isn’t “laziness,” either. Kids who have difficulty with processing speed are often told they need to “speed it up.” It’s not uncommon to hear adults tell them they are being “lazy” or “not trying hard enough.”If your child could do things faster, they would. Their inability to do so is likely as frustrating to them as it is to others around them. Make sure your child knows you understand that theyÆre trying as hard as they can, and in fact is often trying harder than lots of other kids.Talk about how slow processing speed impacts them.It will likely be a great relief to your child to discuss their differences. It’s good to know how they impact them in school, at home, and in social settings.While this might be a tough conversation, your child needs to understand that their processing differences might mean it takes them longer to do certain tasks. Talking about this can be empowering. It’s also the first step to figuring out solutions.For example, maybe slow processing speed makes it hard for your child to take notes in class. Knowing that can help you work together to come up with note-taking solutions.Don’t forget about the rest of the family.Processing speed differences tend to run in families. If this is the case in your family, consider telling your child. It can be comforting for a child to know they’re “just like Dad.” But for children who aren’t like anyone else in the family, it can be especially frustrating. In fact, they may act out. Siblings might tease them, too. You can combat this by explaining to the other kids that everyone learns differently and moves at a different pace.Get tips on how to answer your other kids’ questions. And find out what you can say when your child with slow processing speed gets frustrated.Give them time and space to process this information.Kids with processing speed differences often need extra time to take in the information. Don’t overwhelm your child, and give them time to ask questions. Make space for listening to your child’s feelings about what you’ve told them and what they feel can be helpful.Talk about other learning and thinking differences they might have, too.Slow processing speed can co-occur with other learning and thinking differences, like ADHD or dyslexia. Kids with slow processing speed are also at risk for anxiety. If your child struggles in other areas, you can explain the differences between their challenges. But it’s also important to let them know there are strategies to help them with any challenges they have.In this clip from a live expert chat, watch the author talk about why explaining slow processing speed to your child can be trickier than explaining challenges like dyslexia.Help your child see themself in a positive light.Your child’s struggles may have an impact on their self-esteem. But having slow processing speed is only a part of who they are. You can explain that their strengths are equally important. For example, your child may be highly creative or empathetic. Or they may excel in certain subjects. Point out all of your child’s talents and interests to assure them that there are many things they can do well. Read about how to give praise that builds self-esteem. And learn about classroom accommodations that might help.Because slow processing speed can often occur with other learning and thinking differences, it’s important for your child to have a full evaluation. If they haven’t yet had a full evaluation, they can be tested either at school or privately. Find out how to request a school evaluation or a private evaluation. You can use the results to help your child understand exactly why and where they struggle.Read a personal story from the author about how she’s come to respect her child’s slow processing speed.
ADHD Aha!ADHD and the “model minority” mask (Emily’s story)
Emily would hide the ADHD symptoms that made them feel like a failure to their traditional Asian family. Getting an ADHD diagnosis changed that.Emily Unity’s challenges with executive function and sensory processing seemed very similar to those of their mental health clients with ADHD. Emily does peer support work for young people in Australia. Ultimately, it was their interactions with other youth with ADHD that led to their own ADHD diagnosis. Emily talks about masking their ADHD symptoms and feeling like a failure to their traditional Asian family. They also discuss how stereotypes of Asian people as a model minority made them feel shame and guilt. And they share how they finally felt seen and “broke the mask” when they were diagnosed with ADHD. Related resourcesEmily’s article: How culture shaped my ADHD diagnosisThe difference between ADHD and sensory processing challenges What is executive function?Episode transcriptEmily: I was very honored to work with a lot of really diverse young people, particularly a lot of young people that have been diagnosed with ADHD. When they shared their stories with me, that was the first time that I really, really felt understood. And I was really able to relate to what they were saying.And I was like, "Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. Like, I really relate to that. Here's an example of how I also had that experience," and they were like, "OK, you should probably check that out because you potentially have ADHD." And it was maybe, like, the 20th person I've worked with that had said that, that I was like, "OK, I should probably get this checked out."Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "ADHD Aha," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I'm the editorial director here at Understood. And as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host.I'm here today with Emily Unity. Emily is a young person who lives in Australia, and she refers to herself as a miscellaneous blob. I'll let her tell you why that is.Emily: Hi! Thanks so much for having me. My name is Emily. My pronouns are she/they. I definitely feel like I am a miscellaneous blob because there's just so much about me that doesn't necessarily discretely fit into certain categories. I've just found myself to be really interested in the world in general and really attracted to very weird, niche things that don't really have anything in common. So I'm culturally diverse, and sexual and gender diverse, and also neurodiverse. But also, like, even career-wise, I've been an artist and an engineer, and now I'm a mental health advocate. And this is just me, just now, and so if you talk to me in a week, maybe everything will be different. But I just love being a weird blob and existing in spaces that are new. And it's just, yeah, not, not really able to describe myself in a very succinct way.Laura: I love that. So why don't you tell our listeners what it is that you do?Emily: So about 50 percent of my work is, like, policy advocacy, but I'd say the other 50 percent is peer work. So I've always been really passionate about mental health, and I've been volunteering since a young age. And when I went and did my studies in, like, postgrad psych, I found that it was a little bit too rigid for me or didn't quite sit with me too well, so I went in and found other alternative things of therapy.And one of the pathways that I went down was peer work. And peer work essentially is when you have a lived experience of a mental illness and you work alongside someone else that has that lived experience as well. And it's much more mutual than a psychologist and patient relationship, like, you're working with each other, you're walking alongside each other, and your journey, like, neither of you, uh, recovered in a binary sense. You're consistently working through things, and it's very reciprocal and lovely.I found that, like, in my journey, it was definitely such a big catalyst for me to find other people that really understood what I was feeling because they had lived it and were still living it. And that was such a game changer for me. Instead of talking to someone who felt like they were trying to fix me or felt like they didn't quite get it, it's been absolutely game changing for me and apparently game changing for a lot of the young people that I work in.Laura: And through that work, you actually started to hear a lot from clients with ADHD, is that right?Emily: Yeah, definitely. So I didn't think that I was necessarily neurotypical before peer work, but I was really labeled with, like, certain labels, like depression and anxiety. But through doing peer work, I worked with a number of young people that had diagnoses of ADHD and were in, like, quite formal treatment settings. And it was then that they were sharing a lot of experiences with me, and what they were saying were a little bit too relatable. So they highly encouraged me to go seek out that pathway for myself.Laura: So tell me about the too-relatable things. What were you hearing from your clients about ADHD that perked your ears up, so to speak, and made you think, "Is this related to anything that's going on with me?"Emily: There were, like, these small anecdotal things that they would tell me, particularly with, like, sensory stuff. It was, like, overstimulation of like, "I'm sorry, I can't hear what you're saying over the sound of my shirt tag being itchy and, like, the one strand of hair touching my face." Like, I was like, "Oh yeah, I totally get that." And they're like, that's not tied specifically to my depression or my anxieties; I should probably explore that more. Or, like, understimulation, with trying to go to sleep and then the latent noise in your brain being too loud so you need to put on something else to sort of drown that out. And then lots of, like, executive dysfunction, like, "Let's clean the table, but before that, I should clean the sink, but oh, I need to take the trash out. Oh, I should get changed." And there's just all this, like, stuff going on and then feeling like you can't do any of it because there's too much and not enough happening. And like, I tend to info dump a lot, which I'm currently doing, which is like —Laura: At my request, thank you.Emily: Putting a lot of information there, going down these tangents because I'm just so passionate and focused on it. It's just all those small cognitive and sensory things that — it just happened over and over again and hearing my young people's stories and just being able to relate to them way too much. But also being able to see the immense amount of, like, pleasure and understanding that they had within themselves once they got help.Laura: Tell me a little bit more about the sensory stuff that you're referencing. I think it sounds like sensory overload, right? Like, a lot of information coming in and also, like, seeking out sensory stimulation, which can be pretty common with ADHD. Because, you know, we can look at, like, trouble with self-regulation or trouble switching gears as leading to sensory overload. Tell me a little bit more about your experience with that.Emily: From a very, very young age, I used to go on ski trips overseas, and my mom would get me to wear gloves because it was freezing. And I just, I really hated wearing gloves because I felt like the world was completely on mute. Like, I just felt like I was experiencing the world through this really thick shield. And that's because I realized later that, like, my touch sensors were dulled, and that was such a big thing for me. And, like, nowadays to manage even my anxiety and, like, lots of my ADHD, I do a lot of stimming, which is, like, self-stimulatory behavior of trying to regulate my sensory input. So if there's not enough, like, I'll tap my hand a little bit or I'll play with a fidget toy. Or if there's too much, then I'll try to, like, redirect that somewhere else. Sometimes I'll eat some food that's just so good. Like, sometimes I really love peanut butter on toast, but I will not be able to concentrate on what the other person's saying, because I just really love the peanut butter. So yeah, just be aware of that, I think, to be able to communicate with the other person in that environment and be like, I'm really sorry. I do want to listen to what you're saying. Can I please just finish, like, what's happening in my mouth? For me, there's so many small things. Like, I need to take out the trash. I need to take out the trash, I need to take out the trash, but there's a plane flying overhead and I can hear the sound of the plane, but I need to take out the trash. Because of that, I can't listen to the plane or take out the trash. It's very silly. I feel like that sort of executive dysfunction is something that was really lovely to understand about myself. Because normally I would just beat myself up about it and be like, "You're useless. Like, why can't you do anything? That makes no sense that you can't take out the trash because there's a plane."But I think it's about being, like, a lot more kind with myself and having that language to really communicate what's going on with me. Because I think for a lot of people around me, they just see me, like, frozen, like, "Ah, I can't do anything," and they can't help and they can't understand.Laura: You're talking about executive functioning difficulties, which, I have to be honest, Emily, it kind of surprises me. In my interactions with you, I've found you to be one of the most organized people I've ever interacted with.Emily: Thank you. I highly appreciate that. People tend to say that quite a bit about me. And I think, honestly, it comes from a place of sort of being forced into that. So I was only diagnosed with ADHD quite recently, like in the past couple of years. And I think because I was sort of punished for a lot of the symptoms that I exhibited from ADHD, I hid a lot of it, or I, like, built up different structures in my life to just cope with it. When I hear any sort of constructive criticism, I take it on quite personally. I'm working on that, obviously, but I definitely used to carry a lot of criticism with me all the time.I was just, like, compulsively trying to organize myself because I felt really awful anytime that I let anyone down with my dysfunction of not being able to remember things, you know. So now I have, like, spreadsheets upon spreadsheets and lists upon lists, just trying to get to that point where I can be accountable for my own actions and people don't have to be, like, let down by me all the time, which I definitely felt a lot when I was younger.Laura: You felt like you let people down.Emily: Yeah, intensely. Laura: Can you say more about that? Emily: So I grew up sort of surrounded by a lot of expectations. I come from a first-generation immigrant background — like, my mom is a refugee and my dad's a migrant. And I think a lot of people from those types of backgrounds, they come to a new country and they want to just flip that narrative around as quickly as possible. And so, they want the best for their children, they build up this, like, really amazing life. And I grew up so privileged. But in doing so, I had so many expectations on me: to be smart, to be good at everything, to get a good husband and that sort of stuff, to find, like, a privileged, pristine, and prestigious career path and be this perfect human. But I'm so imperfect as a person and now I've come to love that. But at the time, I definitely felt like it was a bad thing. And I just really tried my best to shape myself into something that I wasn't. And I think that's why my ADHD went undiagnosed for so long is because I was really good at that at the time within, like, school settings, and I really benefited from a lot of the routine and structure that was imposed on me. But when that was taken away after school, everything fell apart. Laura: How did it fall apart?Emily: Not having, like, class in the morning consistently and not going into all these specific things. I would just not be able to function. It was sort of the first time in my life. Like, I definitely had that ADHD symptom of, if something is not interesting, it is almost physically painful to do. But I had people around me at the time that the expectation and, like, the fear of letting them down was so much louder. And like, I would just be able to push through it, push through the pain, because, like, that pain of letting them down was so much more important to me.But when I finished school, I was just, like, completely moved away from, like, most things that I knew. And I think because of that, I also moved away from a lot of the active, like, expectations and, like, the criticism. Which is partially a good thing, but also the, like, physical pain that I felt not being able to do something that I wasn't interested in, that was everything. So I fell into, like, a lot of, you know, following the, like, I call it, like, the ADHD demon. And I mean, it in, like, a really wholesome way. I love my ADHD demon, but they would lead me down these, like, really, like, interesting and beautiful pathways, but they were completely nonproductive and definitely derailed the life that other people had sort of set up for me in terms of going and getting, like, this set degree or in doing this job.I just started pursuing a lot of miscellaneous things, which now I'm entirely grateful for. But at the time it just felt like I wasn't in control. But I was still having, like, the best time.Laura: Is that related to, um, this idea of masking that you talked about in the article? For our listeners, Emily wrote a beautiful article called "How Culture Affected My ADHD Diagnosis." And in it, she talks about the "model minority mask." There's a quote from your article — you say there was this model minority myth that claimed all Asians are obedient and academically gifted. And you go on to talk about how model minorities are supposed to be quiet and well behaved, and they're meant to be high achievers.Emily: Yeah. I studied so hard in school. I, like, I really tried. And I think because of that, I ended up being quote-unquote high achieving. But I think at the time, I didn't afford myself that sort of "Hey, you did it" feeling. Because I assumed that if I was good at something, particularly in school, it was just a product of my genetics because I'm Asian. Like, I genuinely just thought that because I'm Asian, I have to be good at this. And anything less than 100 is, like, a complete failure. And I'm not just letting myself down. I'm not just letting my family down. I'm letting down, like, the entire collective that is Asian people, which is a ridiculous sentiment. But I definitely felt that at the time; that sort of model minority mask of me pushing myself and being this, like, high-achieving, quiet human. It just goes against every, like, stereotypical idea of what ADHD is. When someone thinks about ADHD, I think, particularly when I was younger, I thought it was, you know, a young boy that's, like, restless in class, like, the class clown. But for me, I was, like, just, I felt all this weight of expectations. I felt like if I acted out, if like, if I was fidgeting with anything, it was a bad thing and I would be punished for it. And so I just really contained myself, even though it was, like, sometimes physically painful to sit still. And I just did everything that was expected of me because I, I just felt like there would be severe consequences to not just myself but, like, the people that I love if I didn't.And I think later on it took me so long to take off that mask. It was, like, permanently on my face. But that sort of high-functioning, quote-unquote, which I think is a really humble term, like, high-functioning aspect, I was demonstrating was used to deny me support. There was like, "You're too smart to have ADHD. You're too intelligent to, like, need support. Like, why aren't you working up to your full potential?" And that was just so distressing. And I just always felt like I was too Asian to have ADHD. Like, Asians can't have ADHD, you know — you're meant to be good at math. And, like, you're meant to be organized and quiet. And I just felt this huge imposter syndrome of "I don't deserve help," which is something that I felt when I was a lot younger, but it just translated so easily into the ADHD context as well.Laura: That sounds really exhausting, Emily.Emily: Yeah. It really was, like, just this internal battle in my head.Laura: Did you burn out at any point?Emily: Yeah, I think there are a couple of points where, like, ADHD definitely feeds into a lot of my other diagnoses, I suppose. Once one thing sort of starts falling down, everything else falls down, as well, like a house of cards. And I think it's just, it's incredibly difficult for me, at the time, to understand what was going on. I think particularly with ADHD, because I didn't have the understanding or the label or the medication, I just felt like I knew who I was and I was just an obedient, high-achieving human. And then suddenly, without all that structure, I couldn't be that person. And I just had this huge identity crisis that was also a part of exploring my own identity and nothing really made sense.So I did have a lot of breakdown points that were not just burning out from work or study. There were also, like, burning out from just, life, from having to, like, discover who I am by, like, trial of fire. I just want softness and understanding. And I just, I couldn't find that.Laura: I wrote down something from one of your emails. I'm writing down a lot of things that you say, by the way, Emily, you're a very great communicator. But you said diagnoses are ways to communicate myself. I thought that was really lovely that you said that, and I'm hoping that you can share a little bit more what you mean by that.Emily: This is, like, a fairly controversial opinion, but it's something that's widely shared, I think, within particularly complex mental health. I think that diagnoses are sort of ways that we try to categorize people to help them on a certain path. And I think clinical psychology is really good in that sense that, like, you can investigate certain experiences and then have treatment pathways that are, like, evidence-based.But I think that they can be really, really harmful — diagnoses. I think that they can be a label that, like, becomes, like, who you are, and people tend to just minimize the complexity of your experience down to just a certain label. But I found that diagnoes for me, the benefit of it is being able to communicate who I am and find my shared people. Like, I wouldn't have been able to find you if I didn't identify by the label of ADHD. And I think that, like, that label for me is something that is very positive, but I think for a lot of other people, it's very negative. It's a way of just saying like, "Hey, like, this is something that I have been labeled with, necessarily, and you can go and look it up for yourself." And I think that was just excellent for me, like, growing up. You know, when I was diagnosed with depression or anxiety, or, like, certain other things, people that I loved that weren't really able to understand me could go and look that up on their own time. And particularly because I didn't have the language to explain to them, "This is how I'm feeling." Then it would be a lot easier for us to come to that sort of shared ground.And I think ADHD for me has just been — it's not that I should have a favorite diagnosis or anything like that, but it's been such a wholesome experience coming and finding more people that really identify positively with that label. And now it's like, this is my kin, this is how we are. And it's lovely to have that shared experience, whether it be good or bad, it's just nice to be a part of that team.Laura: Yeah. Your ADHD demons can hang out and have fun together, right? Emily: Exactly! Yeah, yeah.Laura: I appreciate that you laid out what can be the downside of diagnoses and labels, but also talking about what the positives can be. The downside, I think, if I got this right, that you mentioned is that they can be an excuse to minimize certain things. Is that something that happened with you growing up? Because you had other diagnoses, did your ADHD, quote-unquote, stuff kind of get pushed to the side?Emily: Absolutely. I think that when you get labeled with certain things, particularly within, like, very formal clinical settings, whatever experience that you have later, this is not generalizing all mental health professionals, but, like, the ones that I engage with tended to tie different symptoms down to what was already on my record. And so because of that, I was misdiagnosed with a number of things. Like certain eating disorders were actually, like, diagnosed by itself instead of attributed to, like, different sort of body dysmorphia things that I was experiencing, or, like, identity crises. I had a lot of my experience that was tied down with ADHD to just, "Oh, you're, you're just really depressed or, like, you're really traumatized from this thing." Like, PTSD and depression and anxiety all have overlapping symptoms with ADHD, but there's a lot that I was experiencing that was just ADHD. Like, it wasn't explained by all the other labels that I had. But I think those things were just sort of glossed over. It'd be like, "Oh, OK, you already have this label. So we'll just try to funnel it into that." It was such a struggle to get a diagnosis because I think a lot of the psychiatrists that I engage with either had this stigma of ADHD, particularly women with ADHD, and then particularly nonwhite people with ADHD. Because there's a lot of cultural nuance that came into my presentation. And I think it took a really long time to find a psychologist or a psychiatrist that really understood that. I genuinely cried when I found the psychiatrist who was able to validate my experience. And I remember reading the notes, that they were, like, explicitly, "Emily was able to hide her symptoms within the structure of her family and within the culture that she was raised in. But away from that structure, everything became a lot more apparent." And so that was what brought, like, all the things to the surface and, like, broke the mask, so to speak. I never felt so seen in my life.Laura: Thank you so much for being here with me today, Emily. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you.Emily: No, really. It's such a pleasure to talk with you as well. I really love these conversations, and it's really nice to find people with that shared lived experience. If any of the things that I've shared today, like, really resonate with you, I just want to let you know that, like, your experience is really valid with just the way that it is, and that you really don't need a shape yourself into someone else's idea of who you are, whether that be, like, you don't necessarily identify with ADHD or you don't identify with any sort of label; you're valid in just who you are and how you're experiencing the world is completely important without needing to translate that to someone else's idea of mental health.Laura: You've been listening to "ADHD Aha," from the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "ADHD Aha" on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about the show. We rely on listeners like you to reach and support more people. And if you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDAha@understood.org, or leave us a voicemail at 646-616-1213, extension 702. I'd love to hear from you. You can go to u.org/ADHDAha to find details on each episode and related resources. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash ADHD Aha.Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine. Jessamine: Hi, everyone. Laura: Justin D. Wright created our music. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. And I'm your host, Laura Key, editorial director at Understood. Thanks so much for listening.
What’s the difference between sluggish cognitive tempo and slow processing speed?
There is a lot of overlap between the terms “sluggish cognitive tempo” and slow processing speed. Processing speed refers to how long it takes someone to do a mental task. Sluggish cognitive tempo (SCT) is a broader term that involves daydreaming and lack of energy. SCT is also not as well defined and is more controversial.Processing speed can be measured using standardized tests. When neuropsychologists talk about “slow processing speed,” they’re usually referring to slow performance on the Processing Speed Index subtests that are part of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC). These subtests involve tasks like searching a row of shapes to see if any of them are squares.More broadly, though, processing speed is the pace at which a person takes in and reacts to information either through sight, sound, or movement. It’s rare for someone to have difficulties in only one of these areas. Slow processing speed usually involves at least two areas.SCT is similar to slow processing speed, but it has a much broader effect on how kids interact with their environment. They may seem sleepy or tired and tend to daydream and to move slowly. Many but not all of these kids show signs of slow processing speed on the WISC.SCT is a relatively new concept. More studies are needed to clear up the difference between SCT and slow processing speed.Some researchers think that SCT should be thought of as a new disorder. Other researchers think SCT is no different from the type of ADHD that does not involve hyperactivity. (This type of ADHD is sometimes called ADD. But the official name is ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive Presentation.)But on a practical level, here are some things you can do to help if your child has SCT, slow processing speed, or both:Create a homework station that’s free of visual clutter. Keep distracting sounds to a minimum. The goal is to make your child’s learning environment as efficient as possible so there is less information to process.Brainstorm with your child’s teacher to find ways to increase your child’s alertness and speed. See if your child qualifies for classroom accommodations that can help with processing speed.Make sure your child eats healthy food and gets enough sleep. Hunger and fatigue can affect your child’s attention and speed.Play to your child’s strengths and interests. This could help kids with slow processing speed or SCT move more quickly on assignments. For example, if your child loves baseball, writing about Babe Ruth might take your child less time than writing about a topic that is less interesting to them.Ask for more time on tests. A private space can also help because many kids with these issues like to talk aloud as they’re working through test questions.Change the way you give directions. For example, it may help to give directions one step at a time. Giving directions in more than one way can help too, such as writing them down and saying them out loud.Consult with your pediatrician if your child continues to struggle. You may also want to look into whether medication used for ADHD might be helpful.Practice new skills until they become automatic. The more familiar your child becomes with a task, the greater the chance of improving processing speed. But the trick is helping your child find a balance between overlearning and feeling overwhelmed.Aim to give your child enough time to practice and fully learn a new skill without bogging them down by overdoing it. Taking breaks during homework time can also help reduce frustration. Encourage your child to stretch their legs!
In ItBringing sensory differences into kids’ books with Lindsey Rowe Parker
The hosts interview kids’ book author Lindsey Rowe Parker. She talks about her new picture book about sensory differences in kids.From the colors of the classroom to the noises of the playground, school can be overwhelming for kids with sensory processing challenges. One author has turned these experiences into a new picture book. The book aims to help kids who have trouble processing sensory information. In this episode of In It, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek talk with Lindsey Rowe Parker, author of Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes: Calming My Jitters at School. It’s the second in a series of picture books about sensory differences for kids.Lindsey was a child with sensory differences. And now she’s a parent to a daughter with autism and a son who is neurodivergent. Lindsey begins by reading a section of the book. Then she talks about the importance of representation in children’s books. She also shares some of the sensory challenges she faced as a kid, and other real-life stories she included in the book. Related resourcesWiggles, Stomps and Squeezes: Calming My Jitters at SchoolSensory processing challenges fact sheet Surviving the holidays with sensory processing challengesSummer survival guide: Hacks to help your family thrive Episode TranscriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs... Rachel: ...the ups and downs...Gretchen: ...of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor with a family that's definitely in it. Today, we're calming the jitters with children's book author Lindsey Rowe Parker.Gretchen: Lindsey has a new book coming out, all about a girl with sensory differences. It's called "Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes: Calming My jitters at School." And it's the second in a series. Rachel: Lindsey herself was a child with sensory differences and is now a mom to a daughter with autism and a son who's neurodivergent. Gretchen: We wanted to talk to her about the importance of representation in children's books for kids like she was, and for her own kids. So, welcome to the podcast, Lindsey. Lindsey: Thank you for having me. Gretchen: We're so excited to talk to you. And we wanted to start by congratulating you on your new book. So exciting. We really, really love it. And so, we were wondering if you could actually read us, maybe the first few pages from it so we can give our listeners a sense of it? Lindsey: Absolutely. "I need to wiggle. I need to spin. I can't explain why. 'Today is a school day, school day!' Mom sings. She takes my hand and we spin, spin, spin around. She makes me giggle with her goofy songs. 'What would you like to wear today?' She asks. I want my favorite shirt. The one with the dinosaur. I point to it. It's in the stinky pile. 'Hmhm. Can we try another shirt with the planets today? \That one is clean and we'll get the dino shirt washed for tomorrow.' I feel my jitters start to bubble inside. Little bubbles. Like the kind in orange soda. She shows me the shirt with the planets. They have sparkles and they match my shoes. I nod. I do like planets, especially Jupiter. That's my favorite. She takes my hand and we spin, spin, spin around. And that's what calms my jitters down." Rachel: Thank you so much for that. And since the listeners can't see the illustrations, I just want to say that the illustrations by Rebecca Burgess really give the reader a feeling of the narrator's sensory experience. Like the spinning and the sounds of the bus, and like, the loudness of the letters on the page that are coming off, you know, from the teacher. I just, I really loved that part of it as well. Lindsey: Thank you. Well, and when I was looking for an illustrator — because we started this process back in, oh goodness, 2019 maybe — and I knew I wanted an illustrator that had the lived experience of sensory experiences. Because it's kind of a, if you don't know what you're looking for, not quite sure how to share that information. So, I reached out to Rebecca on Twitter and I was like, "Hey, I have a crazy idea. Would you read this manuscript? And I would be so honored if you would consider doing a project with me." And they jumped at the opportunity. They themselves are an autistic creator. And since our original partnership, they've gone on to illustrate a bunch of other books. And I'm so excited for that journey for them. I'm so, so lucky to have them on this project with me. Gretchen: That's awesome. So, I'd like to know what inspired you to write a book about a girl with sensory differences. Lindsey: So, I actually didn't start out to write a book about sensory differences. I was just writing little snippets, from, you know, my day with my children. I do have a little girl and a little boy. Both are neurodivergent. One is autistic, and the other, has not been diagnosed yet, but very, very clearly it runs in our family. So, I kind of just was writing these little vignettes or these little snippets of the day. And after going through a lot of occupational therapy with my daughter, I kind of started to see the differences in sensory experiences, and I was able to identify a lot more of the things that I grew up not knowing were sensory differences, I just thought I was weird. And so, kind of through that process, this evolved from just a little snippets of our day to identifying like, "Oh, what I'm actually writing is about sensory challenges." And I like "Oh!" and light bulb went on and I was like, "OK, this makes so much more sense." And we also didn't start out to do this as a series. It was just going to be one book. You know, I'm an unknown author, and it was my first book. And, you know, I thought that was going to be a one and done. And, because of the response from the first book and the need in that space in children's literature for — not only books about sensory differences, but books that celebrate neurodivergence in general — you know, we decided to keep going with it because the response was wonderful. And so, that just kind of I was like, "OK, we're going to keep going, because it's needed." Gretchen: You said when you were working with your own children that — occupational therapy for example — you looked back at your own childhood and sensed, "Huh, maybe some of this was me, too." Would you mind sharing some of the things you realized, maybe you thought you would label as just like, "Quirky," but actually were sensory differences? Lindsey: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I had so much internal narrative of myself that I've collected over my 40-plus years of — you know, I have ADHD and sensory differences — I was labeled a dreamer. I was labeled as not applying myself. Spacey, obnoxious, like all those things. And it just kind of becomes your internal dialogue after years and years. And going through that process of learning about sensory differences, specifically during my daughter's, you know, therapies, I was like, "Oh, wait a minute." So, I also then got, unfortunately got into a car accident and had to go do some neuropsychological testing. And that's when I actually got diagnosed, was after that. So, while that was a, you know, a hard time of my life, something really beautiful came out of that, which was a diagnosis that I didn't even know that I needed. And it just made so many things make sense. And then I was able to kind of retrain myself in my own narrative and be like, "No, you're not lazy. You're not spacey. You're not, you know — well, maybe I am obnoxious. I'm not sure — and all these things that I thought that I was. I'm like "No, that is not what it is." I think I have ADHD and I have sensory differences and these things I can manage, I can find supports, and I can give myself a little bit of grace, too. And I'm so grateful for that to have happened, even though I'm an adult, it has taught me so much of how I can try and help my kids not create those internal narratives for themselves. Gretchen: Are any of the sensory experiences in the book, ones that either you've experienced in your childhood or that your own children experience now?Lindsey: Oh, absolutely. The food ones, the clothing. I mean, one of the ones that was actually me, in this new book, is when the child is putting their face on the table and the table is really cool. And they're feeling the scratches or the divots in the table. And like, that exactly happened to me as a kid. I would just sit there when I was overwhelmed with whatever was happening in the classroom. I would then just, you know, feel senses around me. So, I put my warm face on a cool table. And it looks like, who knows what it looks like to the teacher that you're doing, or to the other kids. But what you're doing is you're just trying to regulate yourself. And it varies so much from person to person, as far as like, what things are difficult for them. Gretchen: That example you just gave of the head on the cool table and like feeling the little cracks on the desk like, yeah, you're right. To someone from the outside — like, I'm a former classroom teacher — I don't know, I might have looked at the kid and wondered what they were doing. So it's really informative, this book, to teach people that, actually this might be a way that they're calming themselves down amidst all of the commotion that's going around them. Lindsey: Yeah. I mean, it's fun and almost kind of, healing to like, kind of put it on the page and have the outcome be something that maybe didn't actually happen the way that I would have liked it to happen. Some of these responses that we show in the book are not necessarily how those moments actually played out. This is more of how I wish they could have played out. Rachel: Yeah. And I also really liked how understanding, like you said, that the outcome wasn't always how it really went for you or for either of your kids. Because there were moments while I was reading where I'm like, "Oh no, how is this going to go?" And it went OK. So, thanks for that. And so, another thing that struck me in the book is the repeated phrase, "I can't explain why." Like, when the narrator is saying, like, "I need to wiggle, I need to spin. I can't explain why." And it seems like there's something really important that you wanted to get across there. Can you talk a little bit about why you left it there, that you didn't add an explanation or anything specific about a labeling or a diagnosis? Lindsey: That's a great question. I think while I was crafting this, I had a lot of different authors — I was in a group, a critique group — we would get together and read each other's manuscripts. And part of that was saying, like, "How are you going to wrap this up? Like, how is this going to go down?" And, you know, I was like, "I don't know if we need to explain why. I don't know if a child explains themselves like, you just feel it. It is just your reality." And one of my critique partners, he was just like, "That's it. That is your repetition. That is your 'I can't explain why.'" And I was like, "Huh!" And he was so right. And you don't necessarily need to explain why all the time. You just need to be accepted, and supported. And so, even if the child or the adults or whomever it is can't tell you why they're doing the things that they're doing or why they're feeling the things that they're feeling, it doesn't matter. We still need to support and, you know, accept people and meet them where they're at. Gretchen: Lindsey, we mentioned this earlier that, we just appreciate how the story doesn't have, you know, a teacher coming in and saying, "What are you doing? Why are you doing that?" That the teacher is really supportive. And I feel like other authors might have gone the other way, because they might have thought it was more interesting, right? To have like, it's sort of like a children's movie. Some of those movies have these, like really harsh points because they think that that's what kids need. So, why did you choose to not add that? Why did you choose to have such a supportive teacher, supportive friends, etc? Lindsey: This was a definite choice. It took me actually a while to get this book published because, as I was shopping it around to different editors and you know, publishing houses, they were like, "Oh, we like it, but it's too quiet. Your story's too quiet." You know, "There's not enough drama in it. If you could make it a little more..." And I was like, it didn't sit right. And I understand that, you know, their job is to sell things. I get it. But for this specific, you know, I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to make it more than it needed to be. The arc in both of these stories is dramatic enough for the person experiencing it. More things don't need to be added to make that experience valid when other people see it. And so, that's partly why there is no like, huge explosion outside of just internally in that person's experience. And then having these supportive adult figures was so important to me and my illustrator for this particular series, because we want to model the way that it should go for kids. We want kids to see the way it should go for them. And, I was in another interview once with the first book and they said, "So, is this how you respond? And I was like, "Well, sometimes I can, sometimes I mess it up." You know? So, this is not like me doing all the things perfectly in this book. This is me showing what I would love to have happened. And I don't always get it right either. But modeling that type of support from adult figures in a kid's book, I thought was very important, and I was not willing to change that just to get it solved. Gretchen: Yeah, I agree. I mean, when my kids were little and we would watch, you know, the typical kids' movies that had those dramatic moments in them, they hated it because they felt unsafe. They felt like, "Well, what's going to happen? I'm scared." And so, I feel like this book is so great for kids, because they're reading it and they don't have to feel worried for the main character for the most part. And it does feel safe and warm, right? So, I like that about the book a lot. Rachel:Yeah I think it's nice to have a quiet story that is relatable for, especially for kids who maybe don't have a lot of quiet, because they're always getting the like, "What are you doing? Why are you doing that?" And now they're like, "Oh, it's OK here." So, yeah. I love that. So, Lindsey, you haven't just written these two books for your series — and I shouldn't say just two — but you've also recruited other children's book authors and creators to put out stories about sensory needs and challenges. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came about and what's come out of that campaign? Lindsey: Sure. So, I started seeing — as I got deeper down into the children's literature, like industry or environment or community, I guess you could say — I started seeing that there were actually a lot of books coming out specifically for, you know, neurodivergence, sensory differences by autistic authors and illustrators and creators. And I did not necessarily encourage them to write these books. They were already doing it. What I encouraged them to do was come together and not see each other as competition. And more see each other as like collaborators or community. And so, there's probably about 20 or so of us now that are either creators, illustrators, authors and even just advocates and other organizations. And then, during Sensory Differences Month in October, you know, I just really promote all of the different stories that are available and out there that have this, that's not the same story, but it is a similar feeling in the fact that, like, "You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you, but this is an actual thing that people experience, and sometimes it's hard." And here are a lot of different resources for you to understand yourself, to know that you're not alone. And just to, to kind of like make a community of people who have the same goal. Gretchen: I'm wondering if you've heard from kids or parents and caregivers about your books, like, have you gotten any memorable feedback that's really stayed with you from those families? Lindsey: Yes. I have so many beautiful reviews that it just like each time I read one I tear up a little bit. But I think the one that got me the most, it was in person and I was at a children's hospital reading to the kids. And there were some parents there, and one of them came up to me after, and she was crying. She's like, "Thank you for seeing my child. No one sees my child." She's like, "You see them in this book and they can see themselves." And I was like, "Oooh." And I've heard that, you know, I don't wanna say many different times, but really is a very common thing for them to say. But having a mom in front of my face tell me, with tears in her eyes, that just got me pretty good in the heartstrings.Rachel:Yeah. So, looking ahead, do you have ideas for a next book in your "Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes" series? Lindsey: Yes I do. Absolutely. So, we have the two — this next one I should actually be getting just like in three days. I can't wait to unbox it — I also have an activity book that goes along with it. But then, aside from those three pieces, I'm hoping to do, I mean, the dentist right now is a big one in our home. So, that's a rough one. So, I'm thinking that might be one of the next ones. Holidays are usually like, sensory nightmares. They can also be really exciting for sensory, because I mean, I'm a seeker for the most part, a sensory seeker. And I love lights and loud noises and all this kind of stuff. But at some point it gets overwhelming. So, I might explore that a little bit. And then travel, you know, going on airplanes or going to new places with your family. That one can also be really fun and exciting, but hard. So, those are kind of the three that I'm toying with manuscripts right now. Gretchen: Those are all so good. I must say, I could really benefit from the dentist. Rachel: Yes, and we did episodes about the overload of the holidays and of traveling. Gretchen: We have, yes. So, we'll have those in the show notes. Rachel: Yeah. But like, yeah, those are big ones. Gretchen: Those are big ones. Lindsey: Yeah. And I try and pull from things that we experience personally, because I feel like most of the time it's so much more authentic to write from something that you understand and know. So, I'm sure there's a million other scenarios that I could write about, but because those are right now pretty, pretty intense for our family, I think that's why I'm gravitating towards those. Gretchen: Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to share before we wrap up? Lindsey: I just... I want kids to know that they are not weird or broken, ever. They're not. And it's — whether that's through books like mine or through other, you know, ways to find that out — I think it seems like there's a shift in the way that we talk about disability. And it seems like it's getting better and more inclusive and more accepting. And I'm very happy to be part of that. And I want to keep pushing that message like, "Hey, you're not broken." Rachel: We wholeheartedly agree. Thank you so much. This was really a great conversation. It was so nice to get to know you. Gretchen: Yes. Thank you for talking with us. Lindsey: Thank you for having me! I was so excited. I love Understood, I think it's such a great organization.Rachel: Lindsey Rowe Parker's new book is called "Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes: Calming My Jitters at School." Gretchen: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Rachel: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we've covered today, check out our show notes. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission. Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Ilana Millner is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Ericco wrote our theme music. Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.
A day in the life of a child with slow processing speed
Meet Kevin, a third grader with slow processing speed. This doesn't mean he isn’t smart. It just means his brain needs more time to take in and use information. For example, he often knows the right answer to a question, but he needs more time to answer it.Slow processing speed affects nearly every aspect of his day. To understand some of the ways processing speed impacts kids, take a look at a typical day in Kevin’s life.7 a.m.“Kevin, what do you want for breakfast?” Kevin is looking at Mom but doesn’t answer. “Kevin, cereal or yogurt? Which one?” Feeling pressured, Kevin finally blurts out an answer: “Cereal.” But it gets soggy before he realizes that he really wanted the yogurt. Now Mom is annoyed that Kevin might miss the bus.Challenges related to processing speed: Making decisions8:45 a.m.Kevin is excited about his class job today: taking the attendance list to the office. But along the way, he forgets what he’s doing or why. Unlike some kids with slow processing speed, Kevin doesn’t have ADHD. But his brain processes information slowly, so there’s less time for his working memory to grab on to new information and use it before it gets lost.Challenges related to processing speed: Remembering new information10 a.m.Ugh, math sprints. The absolute worst. Kevin knows his multiplication facts, but he “freezes up” and needs more time to think of the answers. He feels crummy when the teacher reminds the class that kids who finish early can read a book. Kevin probably won’t even get through one column before time runs out. Challenges related to processing speed: Anxiety, self-esteemNoonRecess is only 20 minutes, and it takes Kevin a while to decide what he wants to do. He joins the kids trading Pokémon cards, which aren't allowed at school. Kevin is slow to notice that the other kids are scrambling to hide their cards from the recess monitor. She sees Kevin with his cards, and he’s the only one who gets in trouble.Challenges related to processing speed: Making decisions, picking up on social cues2:45 p.m.The end of the school day is so stressful. Kevin is always the last kid in class to finish writing down the homework assignment that’s on the board. No one can leave until Kevin finishes. Writing is always hard for him, but it’s even harder when his classmates keep saying “Hurry up!”Challenges related to processing speed: Taking notes, coping with anxiety4:15 p.m.Kevin loves shooting hoops. He’s really good at three-pointers. But the coach is a fast talker, and Kevin can’t process what she’s saying fast enough. His teammates are annoyed that he keeps forgetting the drills. And his long pauses make them feel awkward when they try to have a conversation with him.Challenges related to processing speed: Following directions, having conversations8:30 p.m.Kevin’s homework is supposed to take half an hour. But he’s been working on it for almost two hours and it still isn’t done. To get a good night’s sleep, Kevin really needs to start his bedtime routine now. But Mom isn’t sure what to do. Should I help my child finish his homework or make sure he gets enough sleep?Challenges related to processing speed: Finishing homework, following routines10 p.m.Brushing teeth. Putting on pajamas. Packing his backpack. Every step takes a long time. Bedtime is often an emotional time, too. Kevin tells Mom he isn’t sure why he got in trouble at recess when the other kids didn’t. As he’s making connections and figuring out what happened, snuggling with Mom helps him feel a little better.Challenges related to processing speed: Making connections, self-esteemAbout slow processing speedHaving slow processing speed has nothing to do with how smart kids are. It’s caused by brain differences that make them take longer to do things than other kids. This includes doing homework, having a conversation, and making decisions like what to eat for breakfast.Slow processing speed can happen on its own. But it often co-occurs with ADHD, dyslexia, and anxiety. Telling people with slow processing speed to “hurry up” can add to their anxiety and make them take longer to complete a task.Get tips on how to talk to kids about slow processing speed. And explore ways to help in the classroom.
- In It
Dyscalculia, more than “bad at math”
When it’s time to split a bill or calculate a tip, lots of people confess to “not being a math person.” But when does struggling with math mean something more?When it’s time to split a bill or calculate a tip, lots of people confess to “not being a math person.” But when does struggling with math mean something more?On this week’s show, hosts Lexi Walters Wright and Amanda Morin discuss dyscalculia, a specific learning disability in math. Expert Daniel Ansari, PhD, explains why kids with dyscalculia have trouble understanding number-related concepts, like time and directions.We also spend time with Lily, a teen with dyscalculia. We hear how math challenges pop up at expected times — like when she makes grilled cheese sandwiches for her family.And of course we hear from callers about their experiences with dyscalculia and why being “bad at math” often gets overlooked.Related resourcesUnderstanding dyscalculia10 surprising ways dyscalculia impacts kidsMath anxiety vs. dyscalculia: Comparing the signsVideo: Why is dyslexia diagnosed more often than dyscalculia?What “I’m not a math person” means to meEpisode transcriptAmanda Morin: Hey, "In It" listeners. Before we get started today, we have a small but important ask: Please take our quick survey about who you are, what you like about our show so far, and what you want to hear more of. Head to U.org/podcast. Take a three-minute survey — really just three minutes. That's U dot org slash podcast. And thanks. Your input means so much. Amanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, a writer for Understood.org and parent of kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi Walters Wright: And I'm Lexi Walters Wright, community manager for Understood.org. And we are "In It." "In It" is a podcast from Understood for Parents. On our show, we offer support and practical advice for families whose kids are struggling with speech and language, executive functioning, and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: Today, we're talking about helping our kids who struggle with math — like really struggle with math. Lily: So sometimes when I'm doing a certain problem, my brain — it just kind of gets stuck. Amanda: This is Lily. She's 13, and she's had a hard time with math for as long as she can remember. Lexi: Amanda, lots of people have a hard time with math. I definitely did as a kid, and I still clam up the moment I need to calculate a tip. I know some adults who feel allergic to Excel documents. Amanda: So you've met me and my Excel document allergy. And lots of us have those moments. That's called "math anxiety." But what Lily's dealing with is different. It's a learning disability often called dyscalculia, which you'll hear pronounced in a number of different ways. No matter which way you hear pronounced, you can sort of still hear the word "calculate" in there. And dyscalculia, at its most basic, is about difficulty with number sense — adding, multiplication — and sometimes visual-spatial skills things, like where you don't know left from right very easily. Lexi: The thing is, compared to something like dyslexia, dyscalculia is not widely known. So it can leave kids like Lily, who have it, feeling dumb. Lily: Yeah. I just kind of thought that I was bad at math, until I was 12. Amanda: We're going to hear more from Lily in a bit, and from her mom, Tracie. Lexi: But first, we asked you what dyscalculia looks like in your family. And here's what you had to say. Caller 1: For my daughter, when she was in elementary school, she really struggled with reading the clock, being on time for her classroom. Adding and subtracting is super difficult. And then math homework took hours and hours and caused a lot of anxiety. Caller 2: Long division — that was literally a nightmare. She just could not handle keeping track of every step and where to put each and every one of the numbers. Caller 3: A bigger trigger for us in noticing something was wrong, though, was his inability to connect with the idea of time and the passage of time. For him, everything was now. The idea of tomorrow or yesterday really didn't register for him at all. And when you started talking about longer spans of time, like weeks or months, he was just completely bewildered by that. Once he started kindergarten, he also really struggled with the idea of money. And while other kids were picking up the idea of penny, dime, quarter, or nickel, he couldn't associate the different values with those coins in any way. Amanda: So as we're hearing, Lexi, dyscalculia can play out in many ways. Lexi: Yeah, this sounds like a very complicated topic. Amanda: It really is, and it's not exactly my specialty. So we're turning to someone else to help us really get a grasp of what it's all about. Lexi: First I have to ask your professional opinion: Is it dis-CAL-coo-li-a? Dis-cal-CYOO-li-a? What do you say? Daniel Ansari: I say developmental dis-cal-CYOO-li-a. But you know, people vary in the way they pronounce it. Yeah. Amanda: Daniel Ansari is a professor of psychology and education at the University of Western Ontario in Canada. He studies how children develop numerical and mathematical skills — and why for some children it can be such a struggle. Lexi: Daniel says there are other names for dyscalculia, like math learning disability or mathematics disorder. Daniel: I think they can be used pretty much interchangeably, because they point to the same thing. I find dyscalculia useful because we hear so much about dyslexia. The contrast to dyslexia helps, I think, some people to better understand what it is. Lexi: And how would you explain dyscalculia to someone who's never heard of it before? Daniel: I would say dyscalculia is a severe difficulty in acquiring basic numerical and mathematical skills. Being able to judge which of two numbers is numerically larger. They will also have great difficulties in learning their math facts. Lexi: Daniel says that long after their peers have figured out which two numbers add up to 10 and they can do simple calculations in their head, kids with dyscalculia may still be counting on their fingers. And sure, that makes math class tricky. But dyscalculia doesn't just shut off when kids walk in the door from school. Lily: I guess I'll just make my grilled cheese. Lexi: That's 13-year-old Lily again. She lives in Kansas City, Missouri. She has an older sister, a younger brother, and a pet guinea pig, Fezzy, who is named after Fezzik from "The Princess Bride." Amanda: Lily and her mom said it was OK to come to her house to see what dyscalculia looks like for her. Lexi: It comes up when she's doing her math homework, but also when she's trying to make lunch for the family. Lily: I have to put the butter in here and melt it in the microwave so it doesn't take forever. Amanda: When you're making a grilled cheese sandwich, you're probably not thinking about all the steps it requires. But for people with dyscalculia, going through a long sequence of steps in a row can be a real challenge. Lily: First you have to do this, then you have to do this, and it just kind of makes my brain tired. Lexi: Lily was diagnosed with dyscalculia two years ago. Before that, she just knew that math was really hard for her — which was confusing, because reading and writing have always come easily to her. Lily: I can read like a 300-page book in less than a day. Lexi: But Lily's math troubles go back as far as first grade. Lily: So a really long time ago, when I was having trouble with even addition, it just took so long — just takes longer for my brain to calculate things. Amanda: She understands that about herself now. But when she was younger, those math struggles made her really upset. Lily: I would usually cry about it, because that's what I do. Yeah, and I'd yell, because I was just so mad that I couldn't get it right. And then I'd kind of start thinking about like, "Oh, other people can do this, so why can't I?" Tracie (Lily's mom): She would say things to me those times when she was upset. Amanda: That's Tracie, Lily's mom. Tracie: And I won't repeat them because they're not true. But just really down on herself, and that no mom wants to hear her daughter, who is, you know, at that point 10, 11, to have that view of herself, you know, it's starting to go into all areas. And I didn't want her to think that just because there is a struggle in one area that means that she's an awful person. Lexi: All this was hard on Tracie, too. Tracie: I can remember one instance where she brought home a math paper and it was, you know, she had gotten like half of them wrong. I just felt so deflated because 45 minutes a night we were spending on math. And I just thought "Oh my gosh," you know. And then getting the next chapter's homework and I'm like, "Wait a minute, we're not getting it." And I kind of thought, "What is this going to look like in two or three years?" Lexi: Tracie had studied to become an elementary school teacher. And while it was never her plan to homeschool Lily, she and her husband decided that might be best. Amanda: So now Tracie was the one trying to teach Lily math. But no matter how hard they worked on it, it didn't seem to be getting any easier. Tracie: I just kept telling myself "I haven't found the right curriculum yet." So we would start with something that was new, and I would get really, really excited, like "We are going to get through this hurdle. The answer is going to be in the curriculum." And then after a couple months, we're still stuck in the same — in the same place. And I think both of us were kind of feeling — we would get very emotional, not just with each other but... I know I would cry and worry about, you know, are we ever... what's this going to be like for her, you know, as she's an adult. Because that's what moms do — we always go to that place. So, you know, it just felt like, you know, August rolls around every year and I'd have hope, and then by October that feeling in my gut would sink. You know, I would just think, "Oh gosh here we go again." Lexi: Even though she's an educator, Tracie had never heard of dyscalculia. She says she came across it while reading up on dyslexia online. Tracie: And then I went down the rabbit hole. So it was all new to me. Amanda: For Lily, discovering there was such a thing as a math disorder was a big deal. Lily: It was a relief knowing that there was really nothing wrong, and that I just need to learn differently. Like I had always worried that once I got to adulthood, I wouldn't be able to do things because I was so bad at math. Amanda: Lily started working with an educational therapist — a specialist who's trained in working with kids with learning and thinking differences. Together they figured out techniques to make math easier and more accessible for her. Lily: Once I started going to Mrs. McCormick's and I started figuring things out, I realized that with more work I could go into a store and be like, "Hey, 20 percent off — this means I can get this for so much," and not have to think about it so much. Amanda: Daniel, can you talk a little bit about some of those methods that can help children learn math? Daniel: Yeah. I mean, there's no proven method for, you know, for helping somebody with developmental dyscalculia. But I think it's good educational principles that run across different educational subjects, such as giving students who struggle more time, repeating things more often, providing them with opportunities to strengthen their basic understanding of numbers. Making sure that they understand that, for example, the Arabic numeral 5 represents all possible sets of five objects. That's quite an abstract thing to understand, and it may take children with math difficulties more time to learn. Amanda: So like five means five cookies and five blocks and five more minutes and... so five means five, right? Daniel: Exactly. Lexi: Tracie tells us they've found some really effective ways to work with Lily on math. Tracie: So one of the things that we found was when she was first tackling things like multiplication, that what worked best for her was to have some manipulatives, so that she could touch it, move it around. Lexi: Wait. Amanda, what are manipulatives? Amanda: So manipulatives are when you use objects that you can move around in order to connect those abstract ideas of groups, sets, or patterns to visuals, so you can actually see and, well, manipulate the numbers. Lexi: Got it. Tracie: And a dry erase board worked wonders for calculations. And we still use that because erasing is really fast and it's not so labor intensive when you make a mistake. And that's kind of what — it's OK to make a mistake, it's OK to struggle — so we just wipe it away and start fresh. Lexi: So here's one game Lily learned to work on visual-spatial skills. On a chalkboard, Tracie draws a figure 8. Tracie: It's not too wonky, is it? Lily: No, it looks fine. Amanda: Then Lily starts tracing over it. Tracie: Left, right, ready, begin. Amanda: As she traces left, she has to say left. As she traces right, she says right. Lexi: And then her mom starts firing off questions. Math questions or something else related to numbers. Tracie: When's your birthday? Lily: Right. March 21st. Left. Tracie: When is my birthday? Lily: Right. I think it's May 9th. Left. Tracie: Oh no! Lily: Sorry! Is it May 7th? Tracie: Yes. Lily: OK. Sorry. Amanda: It's that combination of keeping multiple things in our working memory that she's developing there. Some of that's a muscle memory thing, where Lily is learning to recognize the feeling of going left with where left is, and the feeling of going right with where right is. But some of it's about being able to access that information quickly while there are other things going on in the background. So for example, if she were going to start driving, she'd need to be able to listen to the GPS and know right and left automatically. That's the kind of thing this is starting to work on for her. Lexi: Another thing they do to help Lily is to put lots of number-related information around the house. Tracie: See that up there? It's on our chalkboard. We have all of the squared numbers — one times one equals on, two times two equals four — to give her an anchor. So if she's got six times eight and she's stuck and she can't remember, she has six times six to go off of. And then she can do the math from there. She has a multiplication chart, too. It's the multiplication table, one through 12. And I give that to her any time that she needs it. Just the more she can see them visually, the better it's going to stick in her head. Lexi: Lily has made incredible progress in the last two years. But some things are still hard for her, like going to the store. Lily: So I'm kind of trying to work on that, and sometimes I think it's more of a — I don't know — fear of social issue. But paying is a little hard for me. Yeah. So the store is kind of one of the main places. Tracie: One of the things that I notice is when there's a lot of people and she's in line, that's kind of off-putting for her. You know the stress of "Oh my gosh, I have to do this and I have to do it fast." She doesn't want them to get mad at her. So I've noticed that. Caller 1: Now that my daughter is a teenager, dyscalculia looks a lot different. The things we struggle with are helping her manage her money, so her wallet is a complete disaster. There's bunches of dollars rolled up in it. There's too much change in there, because she struggles with continuing to add and subtract money, as well as to identify what the money denominations really are. Caller 4: The driving — a lot of times he would get lost, and that is a huge anxiety issue, because he would not know where he was, because he would try to follow somebody's directions of turning right or left. So I would teach him to look for landmarks, so that when he would call us and he was upset and didn't know where was and was mislocated, so we could determine his location. The GPS "find me" apps that we can put on a smartphone for tracking are really useful for that too. That's it. Thank you. Andrea Tudhope: Is there any advice that you would give to parents who are just learning that their child has dyscalculia or are going through some of what you guys have gone through? Lexi: That's Andrea, the reporter we sent to spend some time with Tracie and Lily. Tracie: I would just say to not worry so much about if your child is working at whatever grade level they're supposed to be in. Really, it's just important to have the master number sense and those things that are their struggle. And I know it's really hard to do that, because that's just not how — that's not how we operate with school. But it's just so important to meet them where they're at and to work on the things that they're struggling with, so that they can overcome those — so that they're not always a struggle. And just to be patient and trust the process. Amanda: Why isn't it more well-known? Why aren't math issues sort of more widely discussed the way dyslexia is? Daniel: I think, at least in the West, we have a tolerance for being bad at math. It's not something that people feel shy about admitting. I often — when I meet new people and they ask me what I do, and I tell them, you know, "I do research into math learning difficulties," it's like, "Oh my God, I wish I'd met you when I was young." Amanda: I think we have this conception that math doesn't — sometimes doesn't matter. You always use our smartphone or a calculator. But how do we use it in everyday life? Daniel: We use numbers all the time without actually thinking about the fact that we're using numerical information. Just think about waking up in the morning, and let's say you open your computer or you look at your smartphone, and you look at your favorite news site. You're immediately processing numerical information. You go to your office, you look at your bank statement, you're trying to understand the transactions, you're trying to understand how it is that you've got this balance, and you're trying to add up the different expenditures and things that came into your account. Again you need numerical information. Lexi: So Amanda, imagine — say 10 or 15 years from now — that dyscalculia is as well-known and as readily diagnosed as dyslexia is. That could really bring about a profound shift in how parents and educators respond to students with math disorders. Amanda: Totally. And you know we're still getting there with dyslexia and ADHD. If we get there with dyscalculia, it would probably also bring about a profound shift in how those students think about themselves. According to Tracie, that seems to be the case with Lily. Tracie: I know her therapist and I always say, "You can't say you're bad at math anymore — you can say it's a challenge and that you work harder at it than some people." We try to say that repeatedly to her, so that that internal dialogue changes. And so when she does come against the struggle again with math, to not have that initial reaction of, "Oh I'm really bad at this." To just stop and say, "This is hard. I need to fall back on, you know, the strategies that I use in order to figure this out." Lexi: As her sense of her abilities has shifted, Lily's gotten more confident in other areas too — like cooking. In fact, she has become something of a grilled cheese expert. Lily: It usually takes less time to cook on the other side than it does the first side, because the pan's already hot and all that. So yeah, it should probably only be about three more minutes. Amanda: And she offers these words of wisdom, which I fully support. Lily: If you use a lot of butter, it's better. Like that's the secret to a good grilled cheese: butter. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood for Parents. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi: We also want to hear what you think of our show. "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find resources. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot o r g slash podcast.Amanda: We heard from several of you after "Episode 2: How to Deal With 'Is ADHD Real?'" And we wanted to play some of your awesome voice memos to let you know we are listening. Caller 5: I'm calling about the question of "Is ADHD real?" It's hard for me to sometimes respond to that question because I feel I don't have the emotional energy or the courage to do that. And then I realize that if I don't, I'm putting it on my first-grade son to be the one to have to respond to that as he gets older, and that's not fair to him. But I also feel like it shouldn't be just on the parents of children with ADHD to answer that question, and that schools and pediatricians and all the people that are important part of children's lives need to do a better job of communicating what is ADHD and what are other forms of learning differences and attention issues and disabilities. So it's not just on the individual to negotiate that, to be the ones to explain themselves. Amanda: Please keep your voice memos coming. This is, after all, a show for and about families like yours — and mine. If you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Maybe share it with your child's math teacher even. You can also go to Apple podcasts and rate us, which is a great way to let other people know about "In It." Lexi: You can subscribe to "In It" on Apple podcasts, follow us on Spotify, or keep up with us however you listen to podcasts. Between episodes, you can find Understood on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and YouTube. Or visit our website: U — that's the letter U — dot o r g. Amanda: Come back next episode when we'll be talking about the unique challenges of raising kids who are gifted and who have learning and thinking differences. Penny Williams: I mean, he was really severely affected by the fact that he couldn't meet expectations and that people didn't understand him. Lexi: If you have stories about raising twice-exceptional kids, you can call and leave a voice message that we just might use on the next episode of "In It." You'll find that number at U.org/podcast. Amanda: "In It" is a production of Understood for Parents. Our show is produced by Blake Eskin of Noun and Verb Rodeo, Julie Subrin, and Julia Botero. Mike Errico wrote our theme music, and Laura Kusnyer is our director of editorial content. Thanks also this week to reporter Andrea Tudhope. Lexi: And thanks to all of you for listening and for being in it with us.
What careers are a good fit for kids with slow processing speed?
Q. My 15-year-old daughter has slow processing speed. We’re starting to talk about potential careers. I’m not sure what direction to steer her in. Are there any careers that are better or worse for kids like her? A. This is a great question, but one that I can’t answer directly. There are a few reasons for this. First, no two kids with slow processing speed are exactly alike. Some might be fast on the hockey ice but have trouble quickly coming up with verbal responses, while others have slower motor speed but are good writers. That makes generalizing about particular careers difficult.Second, I find that giving parents and kids a list of possible careers can be limiting. Kids with slow processing speed can be successful in almost any career. It’s the pace of the work environment that’s important, not the specific career. Can they be medical doctors? Sure, but they might make better radiologists than emergency room physicians.Third, the careers of today are not necessarily the careers of tomorrow. I often find that it’s the kids with the unique learning and processing profiles who are well-suited to these new fields. But it’s hard to predict what opportunities will exist that may or may not be a good fit.That being said, your daughter will have to choose something in the next few years, and I do have some suggestions.Forget about “perfect.” Sometimes we forget that choosing a career isn’t about heading down some perfect path. It’s about finding something that interests you and that you enjoy doing. That’s especially true for kids who have challenges to work around. Keep in mind that many kids will change their career choice many times — and that’s OK.Talk about challenges. You’ve both seen how her processing challenges impact her at school. It’s important for her to think about how they might play out in a future job. If she’s interested in a law career, talk about different ways to be a lawyer. She doesn’t have to work in a fast-paced courtroom to practice law.Focus on strengths and interests. Is your daughter a deep thinker who values thoroughness? That’s a common type of strength for kids with slow processing speed. But all kids have unique gifts, too. Come up with a list of your daughter’s best qualities, skills, talents and interests. Then research careers that value those things.Don’t rush decisions. Kids with slow processing speed often take longer to make choices. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. People usually make better decisions when they take time to process the information. Give your daughter time to mull over these ideas. She still has plenty of time to think about who she is, and where she sees herself as being happy and successful.Internships and summer jobs can be good ways to explore different fields. Talking to people who work in those fields can also be helpful. You can help create opportunities for your child to have those conversations.Picking the right career is daunting for kids. And it can be an anxiety-producing process to watch if you’re the parent of a child with learning differences. But most kids with learning and thinking differences thrive in the right environment. You can help your daughter think about environments where she can use her strengths and work around her weaknesses.
The Opportunity GapUnderstanding the IEP process
Learn about the steps to getting an IEP and starting your child’s special education program. Get tips from an expert. It’s common for parents to wonder how the IEP process works and how to best advocate for their child’s needs. The truth is, the more parents know about IEPs and how they’re put into place, the more active a role they can take in the process.In this episode, Julian speaks with IEP expert Jamilah F. Bashir, MEd. Listen as Jamilah explains: What the IEP process looks like Common challenges families of color often experience when advocating for their child And ways schools and families can build positive relationshipsRelated resourcesWhat is an IEP?Jamilah F. Bashir, MEd, The IEP Coach LLCMaster the IEP Course by Jamilah F. Bashir, MEdHow to get an IEPEpisode transcriptJulian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. And there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host. Welcome to Season 3.On today's show, we're talking about navigating the IEP process. And what a process it is. To help us understand and learn more about it, I'm really excited to welcome Jamilah Bashir to the show. Jamilah Bashir is an education consultant and IEP coach. She helps parents navigate the often complex IEP process with more peace and ease. She has over 20 years of experience working with charter, public, and private schools. She's the author of several specialty books and courses in the IEP space. Welcome to the show. Jamilah: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Julian: Of course. So, I want to just get right into it, because you have so much knowledge that I think our listeners are really going to benefit from. Can you share a little bit more about some of the impactful work you do as an education consultant and an IEP coach? Jamilah: Sure. Prior to me being a consultant and an IEP coach, I was a special education teacher, and then I was a special education supervisor. So I basically took all those skills and I was just like, let me focus on the parts that I truly, truly love. I truly love supporting teachers, doing PD and coaching, so that way we can excel and thrive in our roles because it was something that I did not receive a lot of when I was a teacher. And then also the parents. My passion for special education is rooted in my younger sister who has an intellectual disability. So, having that personal connection, my sister, supporting my mother. So like, you know, I'm in college, I'm passing information on to my mom. And then as my sister got older, my mother is learning about different resources in the community. So, we kind of was a great support. And that's where my passion for advocating came from, being able to support parents — from supporting my mother — and then also the number of parents when I was doing IEP meetings, who would just thank me for taking the time to explain the process to them or taking the time to just answer their questions. That's where that advocacy piece came in at. So, I've been working in SPED for almost 20 years and then once I got into consulting, I was like, "I want to make a course teaching people how to read an IEP." Because of my experience, I have so many parents, "What's this?" And no one explains it. I'm like, "Let me make a course. And then it was like, "Oh, let's make a coaching program. It’s basically the coaching that I never received as a SPED teacher." And those are just things that are near and dear to my heart, because I know firsthand what it was like not to get the support, not to get to coaching. And I know what it's like for parents — I want to say struggling — trying to learn about the IEP. So, I was just like, "Why not provide that? Let's provide that." And that's basically where the passion for special education and advocacy has come from. Julian: I love that, you know, you kind of grounded it in your life experience at home. I was wondering, you know, at "The Opportunity Gap," the whole point of this podcast is really talking about the intersection of race and special education, right? Because there's a clear intersection between the two. If you don't mind, could you share with the listeners how you identify and what is your identity and how that might impact some of the work that you've done, too? Jamilah: Absolutely. So, I am an African American Muslim woman. So, before you even see anything, as you will see my hijab. And then also growing up, being born and raised in Philly and then working with students that look like me, it definitely makes me go hard, especially for the students of color, because I've seen firsthand how sometimes teachers can be biased. How sometimes the evaluation process for evaluating these students for special education services is biased. And the, I want to say, the disproportionate level of services that are available. I had worked in Philly for about ten years before I switched school districts and went in the suburbs and I was working in Royersford. It was literally a completely different world when it came to services. Like, I really wish I could have taken the resources and services from that district and dropped them and you know. I probably would not have been on the internet every single week getting lessons together for our social skills group, you know what I mean? It was just things like that, you know, the disproportionate availability of funds depending on the district, depending on where you live. And then also there is a disproportionate population of boys of color that are identified, you know, in special education. And then also our children when they're getting evaluated, autism is not on the table. Even though some of them, you know, they meet the criteria. But that's not on the table for our kids. You know, they will get identified as having an emotional disability, a specific learning disability, or intellectual disability. Those are always top. And then they also tend to get placed in a more restrictive environment. Julian: Right. And again, a lot to unpack with what you said. You know, I think the intersection and how race plays such a role in your zip code, right? Like, we know research tells us your ZIP code is one of the largest determinants of what your future outcomes will be. And how race plays a giant role in what that zip code is. You touched upon school funding and how school funding is a giant issue as well. But that the lack of knowledge and the lack of resources plays a pretty big role in what happens with our students. And so, I love the fact that your specific identity, it's not common with the person of your experience in your role. Right? So, just breaking down some of those barriers when you walk into the room, just that in and of itself changes the entire game, right? Because now you're coming in and there's a relationship that's already built, there's already some relevance. There's already somebody that a lot of our students, especially in Philadelphia, you know, they see themselves in you. And so I just applaud the fact that you chose this work because it's so needed. And I can speak just from my seat as an administrator in Philadelphia, it is incredibly important to have somebody like yourself doing this work. Now that I'm off my soapbox for a minute, let's get into the info. So, I really want to focus on the IEP process, right? The IEP process is incredibly complex. And I think for our listeners a high-level overview is going to be really helpful. And I say high-level because one of my really good friends — former Teacher of the Year, right? Like, Teacher of the Year for the entire nation — Juliana. She's going to be talking about IEPs in an upcoming season of "Understood Explains." So, one of our sister podcasts, they're going to have an entire series on how IEPs and the process of IEPs, everything you need to know with Juliana. So, make sure that you check that out. But for right now, Jamilah, can you talk us through what an IEP process looks like? Jamilah: So, for anyone who is like, "Well, what the heck is an IEP?" IEP stands for Individualized Education Plan. Some states say "program." So that's where IEP comes from. Now, students qualify for an IEP if they meet one of the 13 categories of classification. We have to meet the criteria for one of those disabilities. But before you even get to that part, when a parent or anyone makes a request for their child to be evaluated, once you put that request in writing, the school has to respond to you within ten days. Within that ten days, you will get a "Permission to Evaluate" form and it'll list what your child will be evaluated on. If it's for scale, if speech needs to be evaluated as well, all of that is going to be listed on there. From there, you're also going to fill out information about your child. They're going to ask you —and you may feel like these questions are a little personal — because they're going to ask you about your pregnancy. They're going to ask you about everything about your child. The environment that you live in, family background, community, all that stuff. OK. Now, after that, do you have 60 days to get the evaluation completed. Because I don't want parents, some parents think it's a quick process. It is not quick at all. The school has ten days to get back to you after you put your request in for an IEP to get an evaluation, then the psychologist has 60 days to complete that evaluation report. Julian: One clarification — I know a lot of families ask us this — Is that 60 school days or is that 60 calendar days? Jamilah: To my understanding, it was 60 school days. Within the 60 days, they do the evaluation report, the student is getting pulled from their class to get the evaluation done, doing testing. They also will send the parent forms. They'll even send the teacher forms because they want to get information on how they are doing in their classes, how are they functioning at home? And you'll fill those out, send them into the school, or now you can submit it electronically. Then, once that report is done. Normally, I know from my experience, is the psychologist has sent it to the parent. And then even till the parent, you know, call me or we can do a Zoom so I can go over the evaluation report with the parent. Then, that evaluation report then goes to the special education teacher, because a special education teacher is going to be the one who's going to draft their IEP based off the findings in that evaluation report. And then the special education teacher has 30 days to draft that IEP. So, within the 30 days they're going to look at the evaluation report and see, "OK, what goals do I need to create for this kid? Any related services needed for this particular child? Also, what type of specially design instruction, what type of modifications? They may even call you, the parent, to get information, any additional information. But majority of time we're going to take — especially for an initial — we're going to take everything from that evaluation report. And I also want to stress to parents that what the psychologist puts in the recommendation section, those are recommendations. You don't have to accept them. Those are recommendations. Because sometimes some parents will look at that like, "Well, the psychologist said." I'm like, "Well, no. That's what they recommended. You can take it or you don't have to." And also with an initial IEP, nothing will get started until the parent signs the notice of recommended education placement. Nothing will get started until the parents signs that. Sometimes parents think when they sign that attendance form that they're signed. I'm like, "No, that's just attendance. That is not you signing off for this IEP." So, within that 30 days, the IEP will get drafted. Then the special education teacher will create a permission, not permission, an invitation for the IEP meeting will get drafted. They'll contact the parent. Like, "When is the best time?" That's what I would do. I always contact the parent because sometimes some parents like, "No one, called me to see when I was available," you know. So, I always would call the parents to see when they were available or when they were off, because back then, you know, you were still coming into the school. But now I know they're doing IEP meetings virtual. So then you have the meeting and then, when it's an initial IEP meeting, the psychologist is there as well to, again, explain the results and explain the testing results of that evaluation, what the recommendations are, and what the classification is. And then, the special education teacher will then go over that entire IEP. Now for the initial one, they should go through every single section. I can't make promises that that will happen. Julian: But that is something that you, as a family member or granting adult should be asking for. Like, you want to make sure that as much detail is there as possible. Because this is a legal document, when it's all said and done. This is a legally recognized document, and it's really important that you look at all the details. Jamilah: And yes, as parents, you have the right to request the draft of the IEP, before you even go to the meeting. There was a section you weren't sure about, highlight it and mark it up. So that way when you come to the meeting, you're not trying to look through it at that moment and figure out like, "OK, well what are my questions? What do I need further clarification about?" I want to say that really helps. Because only if that's your first IEP meeting, you're seeing this thick document. It's like, "Oh my God, I got to read through all this right now? I got to make a decision right now?" And you don't have to make a decision right at that moment because, like, just think about it. You just got all this information presented to you. Is different if you're like, you understood everything and you're like, "OK, I got it. Yep. That's exactly what I agree with." But for the first time, you may be like, "I don't even know what I'm looking at. And then you want me to make a decision right here in this moment." Like, that can be very overwhelming. And that is very overwhelming for, I want to say, a lot of parents, and that's where some of them will just sign it just to sign it. OK. I'm like, "OK, I'm just going to sign it," because it's just so overwhelming for them.Julian: So again, it's a really complex process. Right. Like just think about all the different details, the time frame that you explain. And so families again, I remind you that you have a ton of resources at your disposal. "Understood Explains" our new podcast, Season 3 of "Understood Explains" is going to really explain step-by-step exactly what Jamilah was able to share with you. But one of the challenges that I think you brought up is one, just the lack of knowledge of what the process should entail. Are there any other challenges you can think of when families are navigating this initial process of dealing with an IEP? Jamilah: So, some parents are like, "Well, I didn't want an IEP. Why is my child getting an IEP?" I've seen in some cases where a parent signed off on something they didn't know what they signed off on, and their child got evaluated. And I want to say that should never be the case. You know, how it was presented to you. You're thinking, "Oh, maybe this is just extra help for my child." And then how it's being presented sometimes, "Oh, this will help. This is, you know, your child need it, they'll get extra help." So, when parents hear "extra help", it's like, "Oh, great! I want my child to get extra help." But parent may be thinking of, "Oh, tutoring." The parent may be thinking of, "Oh, additional small groups." And that's not it. No, they're pushing your child to get evaluated. So that is a challenge right there. And then, parents not knowing what the process is like, not understanding the lingo, not understanding all those acronyms. So that becomes an overwhelming thing for them. And then when they get into the meeting they don't ask no questions. It's like, and sometimes they don't know what they don't know. "I don't even know what to ask at this meeting." And then, you know, did they even do this? Did they even go as thorough as they should in his IEP? Present Level section should be so thorough. Like, when I read that I get a whole picture of the kid. I know everything about your kid. When I read that section, I should know what their present programming is. I should know what the parent's concerns are. I should see anything regarding their related services. Everything is going to be in that section. And sometimes they're so thin and I'm like, "Who put this IEP together?" That is the most thorough section. The most, I'll say, heaviest section because this is where you're putting everything. All the present levels, everything. How are they're functioning currently. Julian: So, families that are listening I hope everybody heard that. That's a little tidbit to really highlight. When you're doing this initial section, looking at that present levels, really understanding all of the aspects of current programming. All of your input as a family because you know your child better than anybody. And so, it's really important that you have an opportunity to share your concerns or share your celebrations. What are the strengths? What are the areas of growth, so that the entire picture of the child or as best as possible is there. That's a really important thing. So, let me ask then, so say, I am a family member of a child. And I'm initially going through this process, I find that I'm sitting at this meeting, I have no idea what's going on, or I'm just kind of struggling because there's so much information being thrown at me. What do you tell your families when you're working with them, when they find themselves in these situations or these challenges? What do you recommend that they do? Jamilah: When I have clients who have been in these situations, I always tell clients, "You know, you can reschedule. You don't have to continue with the meeting at that particular day." You can tell that person, "I need you to explain this. I need you to slow down," like you can make them slow down the meeting. Because sometimes, you know, the teacher may just be trying to get through, because they got another meeting to do. But I tell parents all the time, "You can stop them the moment you don't understand something or if they're going too fast, stop them. Make them slow down. Make them explain every single section that you don't understand." When you go to the meeting, make sure they have a draft for you. If they didn't already give you a draft, make sure there's a draft for you to look at. So, it's not just the teacher looking at the draft and then telling it, telling it to you. And then it's like, you can't even, make sure what he or she is saying is even in that document, you know, have the document in front of you so you can follow along, you know, throughout the IEP meeting. So that way you might even see an error in the IEP. You can point those things out because at the IEP meeting they can correct, make those corrections. Even after you may have signed the IEP you see an error or you may feel like, "Oh like, can we change this accommodation or can we change this modification?" They can do an amendment to the IEP to make a change. I had a parent — when I was still teaching — I had a parent contact me and say, "Miss Bashir, my daughter gets this particular service outside of school. I don't want her to also have it in school because I feel like that's just too much for her. Can we remove that service in school?" That was not a problem. And it didn't change her special education time. So I could easily do the amendment, document who gave me permission, meaning that I had a conversation with the parent. I'm documenting the date. I'm documenting the section that I changed, and I had the conversation with her counselor at the school. So, the counselor at the school also knew. And then also, that information got added to Section 2, and I put the date that it occurred. So that way, the next person, the next case manager she has, they can look at the IEP and say, "Oh, OK, an amendment was done on this date and this is what was changed." Julian: Right. And I think you're speaking to the idea of collaboration. Like, the whole idea of this entire process. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. The goal is for the child to feel success. And so, the child, the family, the school advocates, all of these people come together to collaborate, to build a program or, programmatic decision to really help the student excel. And, you know, for me, as a school administrator, you know, I always talk about how positive relationships are the baseline for everything else. Like, we have to have a positive relationship between the school and the family, because that makes all the difference. If we don't have that baseline, then what are we doing? And that's something that to me, it's the baseline of everything else we do. I'm wondering, what do you recommend for families where that relationship between the school and the family is not strong, where it's becoming more of a challenge, where it hasn't been positive. What can families do to rectify that situation? Jamilah: Something that I always recommend to parents and families — I always recommend that they do this at the beginning of the year — schedule a meeting with all of your child's teachers. And just so that when you can put faces with names, they know that you are a parent. They know that you are involved. Whoever is involved with your child, like invite them too. So that way they know like, "This is a team we need to work as a team." And then also, so that way you can share your input about your child. Like, "Listen, I know my child has an IEP, but listen, my child thrives on this. My child thrives when they have structure. My child thrives when they have a caring teacher." You know what I mean? Like just knowing those particular things and also what motivates your child, that can help teachers too. Because sometimes, you know, you and I both know you. You're in a classroom and then it's like, it's just one of those days. You're like, "Oh my God, you're just not getting through to this kid. Nothing is working." But then when you talk to the parent, they say, "Oh, well, he really likes this, this, this." And you're like, "Oh thank you. I'm going to use this." Julian: Right. A lot of times, you know, our families are busy and life is busy and there's just so many things going on. But our role is to really do what we can to keep that line of communication open. You know, going back to the question around the challenging relationship, if I'm a parent or a parenting and tell and I'm listening right now, and I find that I'm just struggling immensely with making a positive relationship with the school, where would an advocate come into play? Or talk us through what that is specifically with your role? Like, you are an advocate, what do we do to go about getting that support? Jamilah: First, of course you can follow me at TheIEPCoachLLC.com. Of course, you can contact me there. But like, also I want to say reach out to like, your guidance counselors at your school because they know of so many resources in the community or advocacy support in the community that can help you. So, if you're ever having a problem where it's like, OK, I'm not getting that type of, I want to say, communication that I need from the school or from the teachers. Before even getting an advocate, after you've already tried scheduling a meeting, I will contact the administration of that school to say, "Listen, I'm the parent of so-and-so. I'm just trying to have some type of connection with the teachers. I'm not getting anything back from them." Now after that, and you still don't get any help or support? Then yes, absolutely. You know, reach out. I want to say there's so many — everyone's on social media — there's so many advocacy groups on Facebook. You can find so many on there and even get information about things. I'm actually in a few advocacy groups. Julian: Is there a cost associated with an advocate? Jamilah: Really depends on the, I want to say, if you go to our agency, if you go through a company, that probably is a cost. Whereas if you go through maybe a community organization or something, it may not be. Guidance counselors, I want to say, tend to have more information on the resources available in the community. So, you do have some advocates that are free, and some you do have to pay for their services. Julian: Phew! You have dropped a lot of information. I just want to say thank you so much for joining us Jamilah. Before we sign off, I do want to share some resources from both Jamilah and Understood. First, be sure to check out Jamilah on social media @theeipcoachllc. Then, check out her website, TheIEPCoachLLC.com. That is TheIEPCoachLLC.com. There's a fantastic video on there titled "5 Tips to Prepare for an IEP meeting." Also, check out Understood's article "What is an IEP?" And of course, check out the course that Jamilah has called "Master the IEP'' course. You can find that at www.MasterTheIEP.com. Jamilah: And I have a coupon for you guys, too. Julian: Listeners, once again, we will link everything in the show notes. Everything will be in the show notes. So, if you didn't hear me, you can check it out in the show notes. We appreciate you so much for coming on. Just the knowledge that you brought to us. Jamilah: Thank you so much for having me. Julian: Thank you so much. Julian: "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Ilana Millner is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Processing Speed: Questions From Families Answered
Does your child have slow processing speed? Get your questions about processing speed answered. Here, experts respond to common concerns and questions families have about processing speed.
ADHD Aha!“Why don’t you listen?” Paying attention vs. hearing (Peter’s story)
Peter Jones used to feel better saying he had a hearing problem rather than considering ADHD. Now, he knows he has ADHD and isn't afraid to say it. Peter Jones used to feel better about saying he had a hearing problem rather than considering ADHD. When he was a child in the 90s, adults thought his “listening problem” was because he couldn’t hear. Turns out, Peter does have some trouble hearing lower frequencies, but that didn’t explain his other symptoms.Now, Peter knows he has ADHD and is not afraid to say it. On this episode, Host Laura Key and Peter discuss what it means when a child is “listening,” and how auditory processing comes into play.Related resourcesThe difference between auditory processing disorder and ADHD What’s the difference between inattention and distractibility?Why some kids don’t listenEpisode transcriptPeter: I think it was maybe a combination of things that I might have attributed to hearing loss putting more and more pressure on daily life. But like over the course of a few months, I think I started being receptive to the idea that something else could be going on. Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I'm the editorial director here at Understood, and as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I'm here today with Peter Jones. Peter is a UX designer and software architect in New Hampshire. Peter is also a listener who wrote in. Peter, welcome. Thank you for being here and you wrote us the most beautiful email sharing your story. Thank you for that. How are you? Peter: Oh, well thank you. Yeah, I'm doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to help where others have helped me. Laura: Have you ever shared your story publicly before, or was sending that email kind of a first and reaching out to speak to someone other than, say, a friend or a loved one about it? Peter: Yeah, I mean, in that context, absolutely. I don't I haven't shared it very broadly and tend to keep it private until I reach a certain threshold with different relationships. So absolutely, this is very public. Laura: Well, I'm honored to be here with you today and to get to learn more about your story. So, how about we start back in high school? So, I think the word you used last we chatted was that you were loosely diagnosed with ADHD in high school. Is that right? Peter: Yeah. Loosely diagnosed. I was having some trouble in school. I was getting good grades all the way up through junior high. And then high school stuff started to dip. And I think between myself and my parents, we are trying to figure out what was going on. And yeah, that's when trouble started to brew in this area in hindsight.Laura: What was everyone noticing? Teachers? Your parents? What was that trouble? Peter: It was, at the time, hard to pin. It was focused mostly on hearing and my ability to hear. It's almost funny in hindsight because it had nothing to do with hearing it was me just being in my own head. But at the time, I'd be sitting a foot away from a friend or in the front row of a classroom, and I'd lose interest or get more interested in something I was thinking about, and then pop back into reality and have someone ask if I heard what they said. I would say "No," because I didn't. So, that's really, I think, where we started to talk to doctors and hearing tests. We saw a couple of different specialists and there was some related hearing loss. I'll say that. There's like low frequencies I do have a tough time with. But you know, the level — to me at least in hindsight — was trying to grasp at straws. Not like, "Oh, there it is." Absolutely. It was really us more looking for a different solution to what really was happening. Laura: It's so interesting. One thing I hear often — either in feedback or just even in looking at how people look up terms on Google, look up questions about what I think they're asking about is ADHD, but they may not know it yet — parents, for instance, will often search something like "My child doesn't listen," right? Which you can easily make the leap to hearing problems, right there. "Paying attention." "Not following directions." "Not listening." I think that's really interesting and you're the first guest that I've ever had on who had that experience, where it went so far as "Let's get your hearing tested" and let's see what that's about. Peter: Hopefully I can help some other parents or folks who feel like that is what they're experiencing. Just think about it maybe a little bit differently. I certainly see it with my son, who's getting a little bit older. The tendency to want to label it as not hearing or not listening or not paying attention or not focusing on all these sort of baggage statements that I heard growing up. So, I'm hyperconscious of risks in assuming something that actually is not necessarily within my son's control or my control. Laura: So, it was discovered that you do have some degree of hearing problems. Peter: Yeah. I mean, I haven't had a hearing test since. How much of that is contributing or how much of it is maybe different than what most might experience? The hearing test was interesting. We did it in a closed room. There was almost like a recording studio, I had headphones on. And so it was a very focused experience getting the hearing test, which you can guess I ended up hearing much better than I would have even thought, because that's what I was focused on. There were literally no other distractions. And so I walked out being like, "Oh my gosh, they're going to think I'm crazy for saying I have hearing problems because I heard everything perfectly fine." And again, the low frequency came back that I had a little bit of trouble with. And I think, myself and my parents and the doctors all went like "Yep, there it is, low frequencies. So, when you're in the lunchroom, that's low frequency. So, you must be losing people's voice in the din of the lunchroom or classroom." During some of those doctor visits — I don't remember the sequence — the physician I was seeing did suggest that I have ADHD, and we considered it. This was in the 90s, and so I think it was maybe the first spike of diagnoses in ADHD. And I think both me and my parents were reluctant to almost adopt that as an identity and just latched on to that. Laura: That's what I was going to ask you. It sounds like you knew, even in high school, that while you were having these low-frequency difficulties — so maybe it was affecting some of your listening skills, your hearing skills — but you knew that wasn't the root of the issue for you. Number one is what it sounds like. And, let me just confirm that before I move on. Peter: Well, I don't know if I knew, to be honest. Because of the stigma attached in the 90s, from my perspective at least, I was very nervous about being put into this very stereotypical bucket. So, I don't know that I admitted to myself even. I think I also latched on to this. "Yeah, I must be hearing. I have a hearing problem." That was my refrain all through college. "I'm sorry I have a hearing problem, so sometimes I can't hear you even if you're talking straight to me." Laura: Did it feel safer to say "I have a hearing problem" than to consider that "I have ADHD?" Peter: Yeah, absolutely. I think I was much more willing to latch on. I mean, I was like a freshman, sophomore in high school. I think you're trying to figure out what your identity is. And I think especially when you're that age, you think that, or I thought in retrospect, I thought identity was one dimension. And so, if I'm ADHD, then it means all of these things as well. It means that — I wouldn't say that I thought this specifically at the time, but I think this was my fear — that if I have ADHD, then there's only so much that I can do, or there's only so much success I can have in school and beyond. And I'm going to struggle if I have this. And so, I think I was probably desperate to hold on to something else that felt more mechanical, maybe? That felt more like, "Oh yeah, this just gets in my way sometimes," in very simple black and white. Laura: Yeah, I hear you. And this is not to say that people in the deaf community, that people who are hard of hearing don't face enormous amounts of stigma and discrimination. It's just an interesting juxtaposition. It reminds me a little bit, Peter, of kind of rather than get evaluated for dyslexia or look into that. Maybe it's because of lack of awareness or because of stigma. Folks may say, "My child just needs glasses." Peter: Yeah, we talked about a hearing aid. That's where it landed. In your comment on the deaf community and the trials that community go through as well. It was more that I was able to have something to prescribe for myself, like, "OK, this is the trouble that I have. And so, now I can tackle the trouble." Since being diagnosed with ADHD and accepting it, I think I had that same, "All right, let's tackle this mentality that I did with. Oh OK, I have a hearing problem, let's tackle that." It was just a lot of energy spent in the wrong direction. Meaning that there's a very important clarity and reframing that comes with putting a label on what you're struggling with, whether that's hearing loss or lack thereof of hearing or ADHD in this case. Laura: Out of curiosity, Peter did terms like auditory processing disorder or receptive language disorder come up in these evaluations? Peter: Yeah, auditory processing disorder. Either that or auditory discrimination was, I believe, the term that was given. Laura: Yeah I'm certainly not an expert in that. I believe that auditory discrimination can be a piece of auditory processing disorder. In fact, I can, you know, look it up right now on our site. Yeah, "Auditory discrimination noticing, comparing, and distinguishing between separate sounds." It sounds like that is related to your evaluation and what the doctor had said. Peter: Yeah. And it's really hard honestly to, for me, now to say what is what. Because "Inattentive," my particular flavor of ADHD, absolutely can cause — and I understand why in me it causes — an extreme difficulty in very stimulating situations to zero in on a voice and focus on that voice for an extended period of time. And so, it's very likely that I do still have a version of auditory discrimination, but that it's so wrapped up in inattentive ADHD that it's hard to say where one begins and one ends.Laura: Right, it can be hard to untangle and it's absolutely possible to struggle with both auditory processing — which for those listening who haven't heard that term before, refers to problems and how the brain understands speech — and auditory discrimination is a skill that people with auditory processing issues may struggle with. Laura: In your 30s, you did revisit this idea of an ADHD evaluation. So, should we jump to there? Peter: So, fast forward from high school into my 30s. Married, have kids. I think this has been on the show common occurrence where, you know, more and more responsibility is being given to you either through work or family. And it's for me, I think, some of the symptoms that can get in the way in your daily life. It was easy maybe through my 20s to just have that be a personal lifestyle, almost, where I forget my wallet. And so, I have to drive all the way back home and get my wallet. It's not a big deal to me, but if I have a family in the car with me and that happens, it's a bigger thing. Laura: Is it fair to say that as you got older, you started to notice more potential ADHD symptoms that were not completely unrelated to, but maybe adjacent to things like "trouble following directions" or "listening?" And I'm putting that in quotes. Peter: Yes, I think it was maybe a combination of things that I might have attributed to hearing loss, but I think I had more of the other symptoms related to inattentive ADHD putting more and more pressure on daily life. But like over the course of a few months, I think I started being receptive to the idea that something else could be going on. It was honestly by a good friend of mine. He and I made a video game together and I happened to be checking his blog. He just happened to have a blog post about his diagnosis of inattentive ADHD, and I never heard inattentive added to ADHD. And so, he and I, I think, share many similarities. He's a designer also. He's still in the games industry, very artistic, very creative. And so, reading through his journey to discovering that he had ADHD and what he did about it. His choice to try medication and its positive effect for him, that was very pivotal, honestly, for me. And if he's listening, I thank him. It was just a huge moment for me, so I appreciate it, Kyle. Laura: Shout out Kyle! And that's what we're doing right now Peter, honestly. I mean, I was going to ask — and this would be helpful to listeners who maybe are like, "What's going on with me?" — What were some of these inattentive behaviors specifically? Peter: The true "aha" was the clarification that at least he made, and that I then followed up and read through, was inattentive being more hyperactivity in your mind and in your imagination. This was like the door that let me in and I was like, "Oh my gosh, yes. All these things, yes." Laura: Yeah, I can imagine that would be really powerful. I also notice, Peter, that — and I love this about you — that you're very kind of deliberate, thoughtful speaker. Sometimes, and I say this with love as a person with ADHD, sometimes it's just like, kind of nonstop. There are no breaks. All the information is coming out at once. With you, I wonder if it's the “rrrrrrrrr,” is that in your head right now? And it's coming out very deliberately and in an easy-to-understand way. Peter: To be fair, I literally have a note behind this window that says "Stay concise." That's my first thing to remember. And so, I appreciate that, because I don't always feel like it.Laura: I get it. Yeah, it's surprising to hear how other people perceive us. Right? Peter: Yes. Part of maybe the skill set that I've worked on — let's say, since graduating college, really. But then, especially since getting that formal and accepted diagnosis of inattentive ADHD — I think it is again, been very helpful to label it and understand that how I act and am isn't something I need to change or get rid of. But that it's just who I am and how I am prone to behaving, and that there are plenty of things that help me and what I do professionally and help me as a husband and father. And then there are going to be some things that make it challenging. And the switch that flipped, it almost made it this very separate part of me that I could then start to understand and observe more, rather than feel like it's something that's part of the whole that I need to chip off. Like it's not going anywhere. So let's observe it, and let me try and understand it. Laura: It sounds like clarity is what it sounds like to me. And I say that keeping in mind what you went through as a teenager, right? In that it sounds like, if I have this right, that there's still not really a lot of clarity around whether it's hearing loss or a difficulty with auditory processing, which I want to be really clear, are not the same thing. I'm not an expert on that, but I have learned that from our experts. So, it sounds like there was a lot jumbled up in there, a lot of terms, a lot of alphabet soup maybe coming at you without the clarity. And it's obviously, of course, possible that there is something going on there. But the ADHD thing is clarity for you. I want to read something that you had in your email that I thought was really beautifully stated.Peter: I don't remember. Laura: OK, but what if I just made it up? "In 1936, I joined the circus..." No I'm just going to make this up. No, I promise, this is from your email. You said, "My initial reluctance to accept the ADHD diagnosis stemmed from a subconscious fear about its professional implications." Number one, can you confirm that that was you who wrote that for our audience? Thank you. Peter: Yeah. This is what I will be unpacking, probably for another five years, is why I think that to begin with. But because of my ambition and because of the things that I felt I wanted to do and achieve, I erroneously — to be clear — very incorrectly thought it put a cap on what I could or could not do. In my experience, that is a perception that I think others in a professional sense have as well. And so, I am still cautious. Especially earlier, between the point of realizing that I do indeed have inattentive ADHD and then let's say today, it's been about five years or so. I do still have a caution in telling anyone, especially superiors, especially disciplines outside of what I do. I think there is still a stigma attached to ADHD and what that person is or is not capable of that is absolutely incorrect. And it's part of why I feel — when the timing is right, when I have earned that respect from a person that might have those preconceived ideas — that is when I am very open and honest about having it. Because I've done the things to show what I'm capable of. Laura: And as a designer, you're interested in ADHD-friendly design, is that right? Peter: Yeah, I probably inadvertently. I think early in my career I was creating video games and then I transitioned to really at-face-value, boring software like financial, technology and PDF technology and E-signing. Just stuff that sounds very corporate and dry at face value. Laura: Just a quick note, I don't find that corporate and dry at all. In fact, it's a very passionate topic around Understood.org. Design how we develop PDFs that are accessible. There's a lot to unpack there. We won't go into it right now. Peter: No. Laura: Just wanted to assure you that I don't find that boring at all. Peter: Well, that's good. Certainly from a design community perspective, especially early in my career, let's say I wouldn't have thought that I'd be jumping at these kinds of technologies, as opposed to wanting to work at a Google or Facebook — not that there's anything wrong with working at those — but things that are to the public, more exciting, let's say. But I've always really liked bringing in what I've learned from video games, which is really just a product whose success is fun, instead of sign-ups. So, taking those principles and then applying them to these very dry topics to see what we can do to actually make them fun and engaging and getting folks into flow within these professional tools and technologies. Laura: Well, thank you for reaching out. It was wonderful to hear from you and then to get to actually speak with you now. So, just thank you. You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDAha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently, discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine! Jessamine: Hi everyone. Laura: Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
Does processing speed vary from task to task?
Q. If a person has slow processing speed, is it possible to be slow with some tasks but not with others?A. Not only is it possible, it’s actually quite typical. Processing speed isn’t a “one size fits all” concept. It’s not just how fast we write, or how rapidly we can come up with an answer to a question. It’s not just how quickly we’re able to get dressed for work or school.Processing speed is really a mix of factors. One of them is the ability to process verbal information. Another is the ability to process visual information. A third factor is the ability to respond with quick motor speed.Slow processing speed isn’t a learning and thinking difference on its own. But weakness in one or more of the areas can create problems with learning, working, and with everyday activities. It can also impact the learning and thinking differences that someone does have.It’s rare for people with slow processing speed to be slow in all areas of processing, however. Typically, they have areas where they’re slow, and ones where they’re not. They may even be faster than other people in some of their processing abilities.For example, a student might not be able to answer the teacher’s questions as quickly as the other kids, despite understanding the concepts. But that child may have fast visual motor skills and be a star basketball player. An adult may take a long time getting thoughts down on paper, but be very quick in understanding and responding to spoken language.People with slow processing speed can be inconsistent in other ways, too. They might be fast at one task and slow at another — even though the tasks may appear to be similar. One reason might be that the information is being conveyed in different ways.It’s important to understand these inconsistencies. Knowing where processing speed issues lie can help you anticipate problems. It can also help you find strategies and supports that might help.The only way to know the full picture is through an evaluation. For kids, that can happen either at school or privately. Adults can also be privately evaluated.Want to dive deeper? Learn about slow processing speed and the brain.Parents: Get tips from a teacher on how to support kids with slow processing speed at home.
In ItPicky eating: Why it happens and how to help
If your kid is a picky eater, you’re not alone. What’s behind picky eating? And should we even be calling it that? If your kid is a picky eater, you’re not alone. What’s behind picky eating? And should we even be calling it that? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra dig into picky eating with Keri Wilmot, a pediatric occupational therapist. Keri shares constructive ways to talk about picky eating — and how to find out what’s behind it. Listen in to get tips for introducing new foods to kids, including a trick for encouraging more bites. Find out how to rein in expectations about what kids will eat. And learn what Keri uses as a surprising “gateway” vegetable. Related resourcesUnderstanding sensory processing challenges 7 ways to help kids who are sensitive to taste and smellHow to cope with sensitivity to touch and texturesAnd check out Keri’s book, Wired Differently: A Teacher’s Guide to Understanding Sensory Processing ChallengesEpisode transcriptAmanda: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It." On this podcast, we offer perspective, stories, and advice for and from people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences. We talk to parents, caregivers, experts, teachers, and sometimes even kids. I'm Amanda Morin.Gretchen: And I'm Gretchen Vierstra.Amanda: Today we're talking about picky eaters, which is a label, Gretchen, I really, really hate, especially because people apply it to me, too.Gretchen: Yes, me too. What does your picky eating look like, Amanda?Amanda: Well, it's not really picky eating. It's — I have a sensitive palate, right? Like, I don't like certain textures. I don't like certain smells. I don't like certain things mixed together. So people think it's picky, but it's really a sensory thing for me. What about you, Gretchen? Tell me about your relationship to picky eating.Gretchen: Well, I also was called a picky eater, and to this day, some people still do. Mine is all about texture as well. And I was born basically a vegetarian, I think, because I don't like the texture of meat. I don't like the texture of anything spongy, like mushrooms and eggplant. And I, to this day, still will not eat those things.Amanda: Yeah. So today's episode, we're going to dig into what might be behind your child's so-called picky eating — and also figure out more constructive ways to talk about it and deal with it.Gretchen: To do that, we're joined today by Keri Wilmot. Keri is a pediatric occupational therapist based in Texas. We're so glad to have her with us. Keri, welcome to "In It."Keri: Thanks, everybody.Amanda: Keri, I know that as an occupational therapist, you sometimes work with kids who won't eat certain foods. And I'm guessing you don't call those kids picky eaters.Keri: Yeah. Instead of saying kids are picky eaters, we might say that they have oral hypersensitivity. Or maybe there's different kinds of tactile aversions or smell hypersensitivity. So, you know, picky eating to an occupational therapist who works with kids that have sensory processing disorder means that maybe one of those sensory systems just isn't working correctly. And so it's not just about not eating food and being picky. It's more about what is it about that eating experience that makes it a challenge for kids? Maybe it's the way something smells. Maybe it's the way something looks. Maybe it is the way something tastes. But there's a whole sensory experience that goes on before anybody picks up a food and actually even puts it in their mouth.Gretchen: So if we can generalize and just say for now that, you know, we're talking about kids who may be sensitive eaters, can you give us a few examples of what might be very specific issues or challenges kids have with food and where where might those come from? And just some examples to ground us in the conversation would be great.Keri: Yeah, lots of kids have aversions to the smell of food or different kinds of smells of food at once. So sort of like when you're going into a restaurant and there's all sorts of different smells coming from the kitchen. So they might have trouble eating just because they can't stop paying attention to the smells that are in the room.Amanda: It's like walking into one of those KFC Taco Bell combos and you're just like, oh, it's all the smells together.Gretchen: Do you want to give us one more example?Keri: I think a lot of times we assume that kids are aversive to different textures, but there's also kids who are really super visual and they just don't like the way food looks, right? And the way they see it, it might jiggle, it might be a different color. There's just something about how they observe it on their plate that it stops them immediately from actually even trying it.Gretchen: That brings me to a question. If you have a child who's refusing to eat lots of types of foods, what would be your first move as a parent to figure out what's going on?Keri: I think as a parent, you need to sort of get a big picture. You know, a lot of times parents will come to me and they'll say, well, they only eat five foods, right? And so I'm like, OK, great. Well, let's make a list. And then when you actually make the list, you realize, well, maybe there's more than five, there's 10. But maybe five of them are kind of inconsistent. And so once we get kind of a clear picture of what they do eat, then I like to look at that and say, OK, well, are there any similarities within that list that might help decide where to go next? Right?Most kids who are sensitive around their food choices don't like to eat vegetables. That usually tends to be a common one. They prefer not to eat really challenging meats like steak. And so once we kind of get an idea of where they're at, then we try to figure out what are the priorities of the family. And it's funny, because then you start to ask the family "Well, what is your menu like at home?" Right? And they're like, well, I want them to eat properly. And I'm like, "OK, well, how many times a week do you eat broccoli?" "Well, we don't eat broccoli."Speaker 4 You know, so a lot of times we have this idealistic view of what we want it to look like, but it's just not part of that family culture to eat that food. So — and then, you know, I think, well, OK, so we're asking the child to kind of go out on a limb here and eat something that none of the rest of you actually enjoy eating in the first place. So how will we come up with some ideas of like as a family, what are your priorities for the kinds of foods that you would like your child to eat?I think most parents realize that they're lacking some type of a protein source and usually a vegetable. And so it's kind of like, all right, well, what's the gateway vegetable we can sort of get into to at least make sure that we've got, like one vegetable that's in their repertoire. Protein is another one that I find a lot of kids really lack. A lot of kids really, really choose those salty foods. You hear a lot of chicken nuggets, a lot of macaroni and cheese, a lot of pizza, goldfish crackers.Gretchen: Oh, yeah, all of that is my daughter's diet.Keri: And that's another question that we'll often ask. Like, OK, where are they on the height and weight growth chart? You know, are they growing? Are they gaining weight? I think a lot of people realize now that you need to have some really good solid protein sources, because that we can attribute to having enough fuel in your body to be able to sustain things like going to school and learning and focusing, you know, throughout the rest of the day.Amanda: Yeah, that's super helpful. I'm also going to say I love the term "gateway vegetable."Gretchen: And I was going to ask, what's a good gateway vegetable?Keri: OK. You ready for this one? A good gateway vegetable might actually be a veggie stick cracker.Amanda: Oh, brilliant. Oh, that's brilliant. Because it tastes like a chip and it crunches like a pretzel.Keri: Yes.Gretchen: Does it actually have veggies in it?Keri: Well, they say they do, but I don't know. But they're different colors, right? So, I mean, if you look at some of the ones that are green and you kind of make a focus to sort of expand on bridging that gap to getting into something like a vegetable. And then we think, OK, well, we know that child likes salt, we know they like crunchy things. You know, we want to get them into it like some kind of a vegetable. What if we then transition to something like a kale chip, you know? Like you're trying to match their tastes and then use those preferences in your preparation of what that vegetable might be, so that it then becomes similar.What we're not talking about is like, OK, one day you're going to eat a carrot and the next day you're going to have broccoli. Two very different things, two very different colors, very different shapes, very different sizes, very different textures.And the other part that we'll often ask parents to do when they're kind of thinking about what that food is — again, in the preparation of it, it's not just about like seasonings, you know, salt is a good one. You can try like Mrs. Dash or something if you're worried about too much salt intake. But it's more about like, OK, well, if they didn't like it this way, how can we prepare it another way? And maybe they'll accept it that way?So you can change the taste, you can change the temperature, you can change the shape, you can change the size. And that's why even like looking at something like a pretzel, right? If you have a child that only eats pretzel sticks, my first recommendation sometimes is, well, let's try a pretzel rod. Right? Let's try a round pretzel. Let's try something of the same brand that probably tastes similar but just looks a little bit different. And guess what? We can count that as maybe the number six food that they eat, you know? So it's kind of a different way, I think, of like looking at how kids experience food, knowing this stuff takes a long time.Amanda: Then there's also that we want other people to think we're doing OK with our kids. right? Because I know I have experienced judgment when one of my children has tried something and done the, like, Tom Hanks in the movie where he goes "bleah" and it just comes like right out of his mouth, right?Keri: Or the gagging. The gagging really, really, really worries people, right? Because a lot of parents contribute that to like choking. And then kids sort of learn like, oh, I gagged. That was kind of a cool reaction they had. And guess what? I didn't have to eat it, you know. So it then becomes sometimes this behavioral component.Amanda: So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the behavior versus sensitive eating, because I think that is such a huge thing. And I think, you know, like a general parenting book that you pick up is going to be like "It's a power struggle. You have to make sure that you win that power struggle as a parent and make them try every food on their plate." And then it gets out of hand because you have a child who's really struggling here. So how do you know if it's "behavior"? And I'm using quotation marks around "behavior" — or a food sensitivity?Keri: I think it's hard to actually like watch one time and kind of figure that out. As a general rule, sometimes for me in kind of the sensory world, I often like to think that that behavior didn't come out of nowhere, right? That there most likely was probably some kind of a sensory component that has led to a reaction. And that reaction has now become a behavior. And that behavior, we have to sort of figure out, OK, well, how can we eliminate that behavior, or reduce that behavior, or just have a better positive experience in general? So to me, rather than continually re-exposing kids to the things that we know are going to immediately cause them that kind of anxiety, let's just make it a non-issue.Maybe we need to pick our battles in terms of the kinds of foods that we're requiring, or change the idea around what the accepted response is to make it positive and successful. So it's not like you hand them a new food and you're like, "OK, chew it up and swallow it." You know, that's going to be success. It might just be having a plate off to the side while you're eating with whatever accepted foods or preferred foods you have on the plate in front of you. And you might just have that thing you don't like on a plate next to the one you do have. And we might call that a win. And we might do that for a little bit.And then maybe we're going to move that piece of food to the plate that's in front of you. And we're just going to leave that there. And at the end of the meal, it's not about picking it up and chewing it and swallowing it. It's about picking it up and throwing it in the trash. Because even that is a way to experience and explore that new item without actually having to eat it.And so then there becomes this whole continuum of activities that you can do around food. So you're looking at it, you're touching it, maybe you just smell it, you might bring it to your lips to just to tap it on there. You might lick it a little bit. Then you might take a little piece off. You might chew that, you might spit that piece out into the trash. You know, there's a whole way that we can kind of help kids move through that progression, and calling those little moments where they're doing even just something a little more than nothing — and calling that a win.Gretchen: I love those suggestions. I especially love the plate of things that aren't your favorites, and we actually do that at my house and I'm like, "Oh, go me. I have something that works." But I bet I also have a lot of things that don't work. And so I want to know from you, what are some of the most unhelpful things we parents and families may be doing to try to get our child to eat different foods?Keri: I think sometimes parents are cooking multiple options for the family because everybody has a different thing they don't like to eat or something that they do like.Gretchen: So is that unhelpful? The short order chef, as I call it?Keri: I think it's kind of unhelpful because then that child is eating that same meal. And as a parent, you're having to make like three different meals. So a lot of times what you can do is sort of, if they've only got five foods and one of them is macaroni and cheese, well, guess what? We're going to probably have macaroni and cheese every single night for the family. So if you think about your main dish and a couple of sides, it's not about making multiple different meals. It's about maybe how do you take everybody's preferences in the family to create your family meal that has something that sort of appeases everybody to an extent without it being too many different meals to have to cook.Amanda: We at one point figured out that if we're going to do something like casserole, like right, which is kind of a nightmare when you have all of these different textures and things, if you have trouble with textures and smells and those kind of things. I'll give the example: Shepherd's pie is a favorite of one of my children. And then the other one was just like, Oh no.Keri Oh, I could never eat that.Amanda: Kari does not like shepherd's pie either. I'm watching her face.Keri: No, there's corn. Corn does not belong in mashed potatoes.Gretchen: I agree. I agree.Amanda: Well, I think that's a whole other conversation about mashed potatoes. You know, I learned to, like, cook them separately and then put together a shepherd's pie for the kid who liked shepherd's pie. And then everybody else could either have a spoonful of ground meat and put cheese on it, or some corn on the side or something like that. And I wasn't cooking a whole different meal.Gretchen: Totally.Keri: I think the other thing that I often hear a lot of, too, is like unrealistic expectations about how many bites. You know, it's like we need to have five bites of those peas before you can get up from the table. But they're not even going to eat one. And so now there's five, you know. So I think a lot of times it's about changing the expectation of, OK, well, does it even need to be a bite like we talked about before? Can it just be throwing five peas in the trash, you know. Or can it be licking one pea and throwing it in the trash?I think the hard part is that the stress and anxiety comes when kids know that those expectations are also coming. And so they anticipate it. And then it becomes this thing that's hard for them to overcome. Whereas if you can as calmly as possible, sort of be like, all right, well, just take one bite and then you'll be done. But the second half and this is the important part, right, because it will happen that they're going to eat the food you never thought they were going to eat. And then you're going to be like, oh, they ate it. Have another bite.No, you don't want to encourage them to take more bites. You want to encourage them to just be in a good place about what they did and you want to high five them for doing a great job of trying something new — and let's be done. It's just like any other kind of behavioral expectation. If you've set a limit, just stick to it. Because it's now sometimes where, OK, well, I've said five. Well, we're going, now we're going to negotiate. Well, three. Well, no, I said five. No, one. No, none. You know.Amanda: Keri's been at my dinner table.Gretchen: This sounds so wrong now that someone plays it all back.Keri: But I'll tell you a little trick, OK? This is like my secret trick, OK? When it comes to bites, I sometimes will take little pieces of paper, and I'll write down numbers on the paper. And it might just be all ones and like, one, two, right? And you might have five of these little pieces of paper and you fold them up and you put them in a little baggie, and you pull one out and guess how many bites you're going to take?Amanda: Got it.Keri: One. I mean, there are some people who probably would be like, well, that's a game and this is a mealtime. And like, we need to have this mealtime. But the only way sometimes you're going to be able to overpower that will to want to negotiate, and the stress that they have, is by making it something that seems way more fun than what it actually is.Amanda: Well, you take the pressure out of it, you take that power struggle out of it.Gretchen: Is the bag, not me.Keri: Yeah, well, that's right. That's exactly it, right?Gretchen: Over time. I'm wondering, does a kid's ability to tolerate certain textures or certain smells, does that change over time? Like does he ever grow out of the stage or no?Keri: Well, I do think there is — like it is pretty developmentally appropriate at certain ages to have some of these picky expectations, you know. So it does, oftentimes, I feel like it gets a little bit better, but sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. I do find that sometimes as kids get into school and they're eating with other kids who have different things that are next to them, or a lot of times they get to like middle school age and it becomes a little bit more social and fun for some kids to be able to go get pizza on a half day after school somewhere. Then sometimes those things get a little bit better because there is a desire to experience that social opportunity with other people — or having dinner at somebody else's house. You know, I was notorious for not wanting to eat some of the things that my parents cooked. But man, my best friend, her mom was the best cook ever. I tried all sorts of things at her house.Amanda: Well, I'll give you my magic trick. One year for a holiday, we gave one of my sons a Star Wars cookbook, and it was all of the recipes from the various like cantinas and things like that. And told him pick one of those recipes to make yourself. And he tried it. Like it was foods that he had never tried before because he made it himself. He picked the meal, he made it himself. So that was one thing that once my kids started cooking a little bit, they would eat it because they made it even — if they didn't like it. And they'd be like, ooh, I'm not sure I really like this, but I made it, so I'm going to try it. So that was an interesting, magical moment for me where I was like, oh, I can have you cook and you'll try new foods.What I find most challenging is hearing from like the sidelines. Whether it's relatives who are saying, well, why are you not eating this at this holiday at dinner? Or whether it's friends who are just telling me about how their kid always eats everything and anything, and that they would never let their kid say no to anything. How does everybody in the world handle that? How do you know what to do when you have that coming at you? Do you have suggestions?Amanda: I think the hard part is you do have to advocate, help advocate for your kids, right? You know, and I think letting people know. Usually it's — like great aunt so-and-so's special something at some holiday meal that everybody has been the family holiday tradition favorite for decades. You know, and I think it's OK to say they don't like it, but we're working on trying new foods. And so, hey, maybe when I see you again, maybe we can revisit it then. It's hard, because then it becomes a power struggle sometimes too, of people who believe that they know better and that they're going to jump right in and be like, no, no, no, I'm going to get them to eat it. Just you watch, you know. That doesn't happen.Amanda: The answer to that is no, you — just you watch and see what happens.Gretchen: Exactly.Keri: You know, and I think, you know, just try to downplay it. And if you have to before you go to some of these events, like you give your kid the meal that they like to eat. And so when they get there, you can say like, oh, we already ate, but thank you, you know, we're full. We're not, you know, that's good, thanks. You know, and just kind of make it a non-issue. Because it's not something that you have to do. Or, you know, if you know, sometimes the good news, bad news is we're eating at 4. Great! I'll see you for dessert at 6:30, you know?Amanda: Oh, that's smart.Keri: You know, you have the control to be able to decide whether you want to be there for that or not. And I think you have to do you, and you have to do what's right for your family. And if that means that being there is going to cause a lot of additional pain and anxiety and drama, I think it's OK to choose modifying the schedule, changing the environment, doing something that allows you to still have a successful visit without it having to revolve around whatever that food scenario is.Gretchen: And how do you talk to your kids about not feeling bad or embarrassed about the fact that they have these food sensitivities? Because I remember as a kid, whatever was said to me made me feel awful about it. That I was like, you know, not a good eater. And I just felt — I didn't feel good about it.Keri: I think you could even just kind of liken it to it being a skill, right? You know, right now you eat five foods. That's great. Our goal is maybe we're going to add one more and that's OK. We're just working on the skills of eating and, you know, we'll take it one day at a time. I think it's just being honest and validating what their feelings are. "I know this is hard for you. I understand that you don't like the smell." You know, you're just using those same rules of empathy and talking to kids and re-iterating to them that you hear what they're saying. And sometimes they just want to feel like they're heard.Gretchen: That's good advice.Amanda: And for me, as a sensitive eating adult, what do I say? So when I go out to eat, people don't think I'm the most high-maintenance person in the world to eat with at a restaurant.Keri: I don't know that you have to really say anything other than just just do it. I think at the end of the day, more people need to be OK with people doing what they need to do for themselves for whatever reason that is. You know, I mean, you go to Starbucks and order your coffee 1,700 different ways.Gretchen: That is so true. And why is that OK?Keri: It's OK. Totally OK.Amanda: This is a place I want to end an interview because it's perfect for me.Gretchen: Yes. Yes.Amanda: Keri, thank you so much for joining us.Keri: You're welcome.Gretchen: Thank you so much.Keri: It was great to be here.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Amanda: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Gretchen: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin, and Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer.Gretchen: Thanks for listening and for always being in it with us.
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