Neurodiversity initiatives: Branded lip service or real progress?
At work, neurodivergent people face a bunch of different hurdles — stigma, burnout, firings, higher unemployment rates, and more.
In recent years, all kinds of businesses have begun various types of neurodiversity initiatives. On the surface, these initiatives are supposed to foster inclusion and make working better for everyone.
But host Rae Jacobson wondered: Do these initiatives actually do anything, or are they just good marketing?
She put the question to Rachel Lowenstein, a brand consultant and content creator whose job involves working with business leaders to make workplaces more inclusive.
Rachel explains how these efforts can create positive change and aren’t just neurowashing (think greenwashing, but for neurodiversity inclusion). And she also shares why these efforts are personal for her as a woman with autism.
We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at hyperfocus@understood.org.
Related resources
Timestamps
(4:11) How to make people relate to neurodiversity
(11:18) The curb-cut effect: What helps me can help everyone
(14:50) What does a neuroinclusive retail job look like?
(20:39) Why a larger community is a stronger one
Episode transcript
Rae: I'm a skeptic by nature, not the knee-jerk, well, actually kind, but I'm wary of taking things at face value, especially when the messenger has a financial stake in convincing me of something. So, when I began hearing about a growing wave of brands and companies touting their commitment to neurodiversity, my reaction wasn't like, hooray.
To be clear, I think this is necessary and long past due. But again, I'm skeptical because, and I doubt I'm alone in this, when companies or corporations start talking about their commitment to equity and inclusion, my reaction is: Prove it. Right now, the best estimate we have suggests that between 15 and 20% of people are neurodivergent. Being neurodivergent at its core simply means to have a brain that works differently.
People with autism, people with ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, mental health disorders, and other brain differences often use it to describe ourselves. It's a key code for a vibrant community, an umbrella we can gather under a place to belong. And let's be real, it's something that's become kind of a hot topic in the world of work.
More and more research has come out showing that neurodivergent employees are a huge boon for companies: creative thinking, new perspectives, efficiency, you name it. But it's not quite that simple. And when it comes to work, being neurodivergent can feel like a rallying cry because to identify as neurodivergent is to acknowledge that the world too often is not built for brains like ours. In the world of work, this can translate to serious challenges.
There's a ton of research showing that neurodivergent people face significant hurdles at work: stigma, burnout, firings, and unemployment, to name a few. So, yes, we desperately need employers to dig in and create workspaces where neurodivergent people can actually thrive. And when I started hearing about these neurodiversity initiatives, my first thought was, "Man, wouldn't it be great if that turns out to be real?"
Because we've seen things like this before. Green initiatives, which are really just like a picture of a tree on non-biodegradable packaging. DE&I initiatives that were little more than lip service to communities of color, low rent efforts to mask but not fix entrenched racism and sexism in the workplace. Corporate floats at pride parades from companies happy to wave a rainbow flag with one hand while giving campaign contributions to anti LGBTQIA politicians with the other.
Platitudes instead of progress. Empty initiatives instead of real change. It's pretty disheartening. And I want to be clear, this is not to say these movements are never effective or that companies who make efforts to create change are always doing so for cynical reasons. It's just that there's a reason to take it all with a grain of salt.
But as a skeptic, there's nothing I love more than when a very smart person steps in and says, "Hey, this is actually real. Here's why." So, I was very, very excited when Rachel Lowenstein agreed to talk to me. Rachel is a brand consultant, content creator, and has worked with an impressive roster of companies to improve efforts to actually make a difference in what it's like to be a neurodivergent person on the job.
She has a unique perspective on how workplaces are trying to evolve to be more neuroinclusive. And you know what? I'll just let her explain it.
Rachel: I couldn't just do one thing. I decided I needed to do all the things.
Rae: One of her businesses is a personal consultancy.
Rachel: Where I help brands make sense of the chaos of culture. So, it's a lot of cultural insights, cultural analysis through the lens of helping break down the complexities of culture to help brands with their business growth.
Rae: The other is called Divergent Convergent, which she co-founded with her friend and former colleague Kelly Garland, who has ADHD.
Rachel: And Divergent Convergent is a professional platform and advocacy group that is very much being built right now. But the whole vision of it is to help neurodivergent people empower their creativity while also breaking down professional barriers that prohibit neurodivergent people from thriving.
Rae: Talking with someone like Rachel made me feel a bit more optimistic, and hopefully, after listening to this, you will too. I'm Rae Jacobson and this is "Hyperfocus." Here's my conversation with Rachel Loewenstein.
(4:11) How to make people relate to neurodiversity
So, you're an autistic person and you are on the ground in this very new feeling, but also very emergent zone of bringing neurodivergent insight to corporations, to brands, to people who work or I should say people who get to create the environments in which we work.
But I find when I hear people talking about neurodivergence and the workplace, some parts of me feel like, oh sure, like, show me, you know, like, prove it. What do you what do you really mean? Or is it just like, neurowashing, I think is the term that we had talked about before.
Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I think the skepticism behind any work related to inclusion as it relates to HR practices is very reasonable, right? We've seen a lot of organizations since their pledges in 2020 around racial injustices backtracking on those commitments. We've seen most recently a lot of big organizations saying that they are no longer doing D&I programs.
I think a lot of those conversations have been almost overblown in an irresponsible way or by the media where a lot of the organizations who have made pledges are sticking with them. I don't know the exact stats, but there is something like the majority of organizations are still committing to the pledges that they've made.
So, going back specifically to neurowashing and being skeptical of what organizations are doing, I think it's really valid. And I think that skepticism is good in this area because it holds leaders accountable. But what I see from business leaders, as somebody who consults with Fortune 500 CEOs, Executive CMOs and other leaders, is and I'm not sure that this is perhaps like the perception which is which is fair, but I actually find that the majority of people actually really care about this issue.
And the reason why I think that is, and perhaps sometimes it's misguided, but I think the intentions are really good is when I tell somebody I'm autistic, nine times out of ten, the response is "I know somebody else who is autistic" or has ADHD or anything else. And I used to actually get very frustrated by that because I thought, you know, most of the time the way that they're relating to me is usually through a child.
Rae: And my cousin's son has…
Rachel: Right. And I'm like, "Awesome," you know, great. That doesn't really have a lot to do with me. I'm a 34-year-old woman. However, in my professional world, I've started to actually see that as an opportunity, because what I find is that in areas around culture, social movements, DE&I, the way that you make change is by making people relate to the issue and by understanding the issue through the lens of empathy.
And what used to be a frustration for me, I actually now see as a huge opportunity because most people are touched by neurodivergent and or disabled experiences. And if you can lean into that individual experience, whether you know, it's like relating to you to a child which can feel infantilizing or maybe somebody else is like, "Wow, I really related to what you said about struggling to speak in meetings or feeling burnt out when you're jumping in and out of tasks."
Every time I talk about my experiences as an autistic person, I find non-autistic people usually relate to something that I'm saying, and obviously, like the intensity and the frequency that I experience is that is probably different than theirs. But that empathy and that understanding is a point of connection and you can use that point of connection to build better outcomes for people in the workplace.
So, with that in mind, I try not to let perfection get in the way of progress and the work that I do around neuroinclusion because yes, there is a lot of neurowashing going on. Yes, there is a lot of progress to be made. But what I found and the work that I've done with brands and businesses and leaders, they don't know what they don't know. And once they're aware of the challenges that the neurospicy people are facing in workplaces, whether you're dyslexic or have Tourettes or autism or ADHD or anything else, I think that their eyes are opened.
Just as one specific example, I got used to get very frustrated and got very loud very quickly about the lack of agendas in agency world. People would just send invites with no contacts and for years it drove me to be very frustrated before I got my autism diagnosis. And afterwards I realized, "I need contacts before I go into a conversation because I'm processing a lot of things very quickly and I can't orient what my thoughts are going to look like."
Once I talk to my leaders and my teams and my colleagues about why I need an agenda, their answer was, "I never even thought about that." And suddenly every meeting that I was in had an agenda, and if it didn't, I would just do decline it. And obviously, that came through a lens of privilege and being able to do that because I had seniority and had a position of influence in the organization.
But I think when you approach it through, "Here's what I'm experiencing and here's how I do my best work," right? Like that's the key is you have to lean in and then show people this is what you're going to get from the best outcomes from your team members. People are very understanding. So, that's how I approach this work. And I think in general, it's good to be skeptical because we should hold leaders accountable to it. But I also don't think we should let perfection get in the way of progress.
However, if an organization is going to lean in and use neuroinclusion as a marketing talking point or a PR talking point, that's where we have an issue, right?
If they're just beginning their journey, but they're using it as a selling point to attract employees as a selling point for customers, but they're not really doing the work yet, or they're just starting their journey or they've been on this journey and they're actually not living their values, that's where I think it's completely valid and fair to hold leaders to trial and say, "Well, what are you doing? How, what are the outcomes? Do you have more retention with employees? Do you have better satisfaction, less burnout, etc.?"
Which is why I actually tell most businesses, "Unless you are in a very rare scenario, this should not be something that you're talking about in marketing." And I'm saying that as somebody who is a marketer by trade.
Rae: But it's interesting that you mention that, they're sort of like put your money where your mouth is aspect.
Rachel: Yeah.
Rae: But that most people are at least trying to do that in some meaningful way. And I also feel like the thing that gives me a lot of hope, like obviously I lead with skepticism, that's just kind of my way. But I do have a lot of hope in that I feel like the principles of universal design, which is basically like a rising tide lifts all boats.
Like what's good for people who are neurodivergent is eventually going to be good for everyone. Everyone benefits from agendas and meetings. Everyone benefits from knowing what to expect during their day. Everyone benefits when offices are not at an unmanageable loud level. You know, these kind of things that are good for us are good for everyone.
(11:18) The curb-cut effect: What helps me can help everyone
Rachel: Yeah, there's a term for that in disability activists spaces called the curb-cut effect. So, if you don't know what the curb-cut effect is, the curb-cut effect is a term that uses what was happening in the United States in the 1960s, where disability activists we're talking, or advocating rather, for curb cuts on sidewalks, right? Lik those cut outs that make it easier to get up and down on sidewalks before they were just all kind of flat and raised.
And when they were advocating for them, of course, they were asking for them because people with mobility issues or mobility-related disabilities were confined just to their neighborhoods, right? They could not be mobile around their cities or their urban environments or their neighborhoods because of the the barriers to their ability to move.
When the city planners finally implemented curb cuts onto sidewalks, what happened was people with wheelchairs or other assistive devices were able to benefit from that. They were able to be mobile, and explore other cities, and be more connected with their community. But who else benefited? It was pregnant women, women who have strollers, people who might have temporary disabilities, whether it's a cast or something else. Commuters who might have suitcases with them, suddenly they can just roll along sidewalks, right?
And what you're talking about with universal design is that when you design for the most marginalized person or the person who has the most barriers to accessing the world, whether it's through the lens of disability, gender or race and ethnicity, age, etc., everyone's going to benefit from it. So, to your point, when I'm talking about agendas with meetings, what I hear from people when I say that is, "Yeah, that's just good business."
And of course, it's definitely just good business. But what I find is that most business leaders don't do it because they don't need it, right? They can do their jobs without it. I can't do my job effectively without it. And once I realized that's what I need to do my best work, I became a lot more thoughtful about it for myself, and...
Rae: Yeah.
Rachel: To your point, everyone's going to benefit from it. My first five years of working from college to two years out of college was working in retail. And I look back and I just want to give myself a hug and tell myself like, "I'm so sorry, and you've got this, girl" because if, you've worked in retail too?
Rae: Oh yeah, and I have dyscalculia as well as ADHD, and I got to tell you, the cash register and talking to people all day, not, not great. You know, it's hard.
Rachel: I mean, like, listen, I think as somebody who was undiagnosed autistic working in retail for as long as I did, it built a lot of resiliency and built a lot of discipline and it taught me a lot of skills that in hindsight, I don't regret any of it. And I'm grateful for the challenges. But I also think there is such a massive unemployment issue, especially for autistic folks — I think it's somewhere upwards of 75 to 80%.
For those jobs that have, you know, lower barriers to entry, you know, no four-year degree, etc., like retail, those can be viable employment options for a lot of folks, but they are very, very challenging. If you are not extroverted, love socializing with people...
Rae: Multitasking.
Rachel: And easily socialize with people, all the things. And you know, my worst points in my life was when I was working in retail because I was so overstimulated and I didn't know, I just thought I had, according to a psychiatrist, severe depression and anxiety.
(14:50) What does a neuroinclusive retail job look like?
Rae: What do you think would have made that better? Like, what does a neuroinclusive retail job look like?
Rachel: Yeah, very good question. And honestly, not something that I've given a lot of thought to because it's just a time of my life that was hard. And so, I'm going to say stuff and maybe it's not perfect, but it's just maybe something like for fodder and I would love to hear your thoughts too.
Rae: For sure.
Rache: I think for me, the biggest challenge working in retail is the social aspect of it. So, being able, especially the type of retail that I was working on, which was, you know, more contemporary if not luxury retail, where building relationships with people is really important and having relationships with their clients is really important, which is still really important to the work that I do today with businesses. As an autistic person, even though in a sustained way it was not healthy, I was actually really good at building relationships with people every time they walked into the store, which suited me very well now, in the work that I do with executives.
Where when you're autistic, a lot of us are very good at pattern recognition. We can immediately identify maybe behaviors that motivate you, behaviors that might kind of put you off. With me, it's one of my strengths is I'm really good at immediately identifying patterns with people or situations.
So, I could pretty quickly identify maybe their vibe, for lack of a better word. And I think what would have maybe helped me and making that more accessible to me in a more enduring way is maybe environments that encourage that type of relationship building and a more one-on-one setting rather than just a volume of customers.
Now, organizations today are very focused on a level of growth and profit that in some cases is not going to be sustainable for their businesses long term. And it's purely about breadth and not the quality of experience with customers. So, I think one aspect could be encouraging that type of relationship-building rather than just throwing everybody on the sales floor and hoping for a catch.
And maybe a good business leader would see "Hey, there's — insert Samantha — Samantha is really good at engaging with people regardless of who walks in that door. She's an extrovert. She loves people. She's not neurodivergent Let's make her the person that brings people into the shopping experience. And then someone like Rae or Rachel is really good at building relationships with people over time. They can be the people who we leverage to develop those relationships."
Does that make sense? I kind of just made that up. I think is a really great business model for retailers.
Rae: It's a great business model. I would shop there.
Rachel: I would shop there too.
Rae: No, I think that's like, that kind of thing though, where you're like "So, how could this be better? How could we make this like suit us? And then you just think about it and it's like, "Oh I kind of did that for myself." Like you said, you self-accommodated. And I think just the experience of you who is clearly somebody who has a very good head for this and also the lived experience to say, "Actually, this could make it better for me and for your customers."
Rachel: Exactly.
Rae: That seems like a really clear path.
Rachel: It's a very clear path. And it's regardless of you're neurodivergent, if you're listening to this, or you're just a business leader who wants to know more about it, always thinking about how can I make these business outcomes better by thinking about the lived experience of people, right?
If for all of the quote anti-woke rhetoric going on about why we should divest from DE&I, I actually just think it's a really stupid business decision to divest from any type of DE&I work because who makes up your company? It's people from different backgrounds who makes up your customer base. It's people from different backgrounds.
Nobody is going to experience the world the same, neurodivergent people maybe doubly so because of just the the factors of our disability. And by thinking about, as we've been talking about universal design or the curb-cut effect, what people need to do their best work, you're also going to make your business better. I personally don't think that you need a reason to do accessibility beyond just it's what's best for a person.
But convincing CEOs who are on the hook for their shareholders, their bottom line, etc., that's always how I frame it. If you want better business outcomes, you need better people outcomes and better people outcomes are going to be underpinned by understanding that nobody does their best work the same way.
Rae: I completely agree with that. And I wonder, I mean, when you imagine like this ideal world, what does that look like?
Rachel: I think it's really simple. What sits behind it is a lot more complex. But the way that I think about what needs to come next is that businesses and leaders trust their employees to do their best work in a way that works best for them. And today, that's largely not happening.
What needs to happen next is that there needs to be a systemic change where we trust that everyone knows how to do their best work. I mean, I could bang my head against the wall when I hear leaders say, "Well, this is how we do it. This is the best way that we've gotten outcomes for." And I just think "If you want to be an innovative organization, there is not one way to do things," right?
Rae: Yeah. Neurodivergence is a word that started in the autism community, and now it's sort of like this very large tent. And I think that's beautiful. But I also, I'd be interested as someone who is from the autistic community, what does that feel like having it sort of encompass so many things now?
(20:39) Why a larger community is a stronger one
Rachel: You know, I had a conversation with a friend about this recently and something that they said, we were talking about this of like the breadth of the neurodiversity community, and they said "If somebody sees themself and a community, and maybe it's a new identity to that community or a community that currently isn't under that umbrella, but they see themselves and a community, neurodiversity or any other community, who does it harm by having them included?". Nobody, I think.
I think the nuances of understanding that higher support needs folks, nonverbal folks, folks who cannot work, folks who intersect with other identities that will just by the nature of the biases and discrimination in our world will face more marginalization that I do as a as a cys white woman. All of that needs to be in the hands of the community of understanding that those voices need to be elevated the most.
Rae: I agree with that.
Rachel: And today, that's unfortunately not happening. And it needs to be centered more. But I also like to think that it will not harm anybody to have more identities or just people who feel seen in our community and heard and valued and finding some semblance of support by belonging here.
Rae: I have to say, as a woman with ADHD, I've been sort of grateful to be, to find other people who feel like, you know, we may not have the same diagnosis, but our experiences really overlap, like yours and mine working in retail. We have two different types of brains, but, you know, this is a very confirming type of conversation to me where it's like, "Yeah, I know what that feels like."
Rachel: Yeah.
Rae: You know, we talk about the rising tide and I think when I say that phrase, it's something I say with a lot of hope because I hope that this rising tide does lift all boats, that this community is the community that says "Nobody gets left out." Like it's just a kind of thing, where I don't know about you, but like, for a long time, this was a lonely experience in a lot of ways to be somebody who thought differently, who learned differently, who had the experiences that I've had that I think you've had very similar, you know, from a different perspective, but similar experiences.
And when I look around and I see how it's growing, I get like excited. I feel good for the first time, I think, when I really look at this, I feel good and I feel hopeful and I feel like good things are coming.
Rachel: That's exactly right. I mean, I couldn't agree more that I think a lot of neurodivergent women will resonate with us or just neurodivergent people in general that growing up neurodivergent is lonely. If I could summarize a lot of my adolescent experience, it was feeling lonely and isolated and I never felt more connected and with community and hopeful than I do today. It's made me understand myself better, obviously.
But knowing I'm autistic has also brought me a lot closer to a lot of people in my life. My husband got an ADHD diagnosis a little over a year ago, and we realized that a lot of our issues as a couple — and we've been together for almost 17 years; we're high school sweethearts — we realized that, so it's always like the kind of like my fun factor of people, we realize that most of the things we fight about are usually just our conflicting access needs, right?
As like him as an ADHDer, or me as someone who's autistic, he is like fly by the seat of his pants, doesn't really like to commit to anything. I need rigidity and routine and we fought about that for years. I have friends who, many friends actually; I could maybe like list a dozen people in my life or very close friends, who've received autism or ADHD diagnoses because of my experiences and talking about it. And in doing so, they know themselves better. I know them better, and we are able to build a much more meaningful relationship with each other.
Rae: Thanks for listening to this episode of "Hyperfocus." If you have any questions or ideas for future topics, write me an email or send a voice memo to hyperfocus@understood.org.
"Hyperfocus" is made by me, Rae Jacobson, and Cody Nelson. Our video producer is Calvin Knie. Our music comes from Blue Dot Sessions and Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Ash Beecher is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director and Neil Drumming is our editorial director.
This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott, Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, you can donate at understood.org/give.
