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Dyscalculia tutoring: What families need to know
Kids with dyscalculia may get supports and services in school to help them with math challenges. But they may also benefit from tutoring outside of school. Here’s what you need to know about tutoring for kids with dyscalculia.What to look for in a dyscalculia tutor Tutors who help kids with dyslexia are often trained in specific reading programs. They can also get certification in those programs. The same doesn’t exist for tutors who help kids with dyscalculia. There are few evidence-based programs designed specifically to help students with dyscalculia. But that doesn’t mean you can’t find a good tutor for your child. Or that there aren’t teaching methods that benefit kids who struggle with math. Research on dyscalculia suggests that using a multisensory structured approach can help kids who struggle with number sense and operations. Several math programs are designed around a multisensory approach, like Stern Structural Arithmetic and TouchMath. You can try to find a tutor who has experience with one of these programs. But what’s most important is that the tutor uses elements of those math programs. What a tutor might doMost one-on-one tutoring programs recommend 60-minute sessions, two or three times per week. (For small group instruction, they recommend 45 minutes per day. That includes what kids are getting in school.)Intensive instruction is the best way for kids to learn basic math concepts. The tutor’s approach should be:Structured. The tutor should break math down into smaller skills and build on them over time.Multisensory. The tutor should use sight, hearing, touch, and movement to help kids understand math and math concepts. For example, the tutor may have your child count out fuzzy cotton balls. Focused on verbal reasoning. The tutor should have students “talk through” math problems and concepts. Using written and spoken words can help kids understand the basic logic behind math.An online tutor should use the same approaches. For example, the tutor can use virtual manipulatives. These can be used to explain concepts and to talk through how to solve a problem.The tutor should give you regular progress updates. You can share them with the school. Learn how to help your child’s tutor and teachers communicate.Who can provide tutoringNot many people call themselves a “dyscalculia tutor.” So what type of professional can help your child with dyscalculia? The best options include:Special education teachers This might be a teacher looking for extra income. It could be a retired teacher. You might even consider a graduate student working toward an advanced degree in special education. Educational therapistsThese instructors work with kids who have learning and thinking differences. But they may not have a specialty in working with kids who have dyscalculia, or much experience with it at all. There are also no regulations about who gets to use this title. So be careful not to rely on titles alone when choosing a tutor. Reading specialists and dyslexia tutorsSome reading specialists or tutors who teach students with dyslexia may also help kids with dyscalculia. This is because many use a multisensory structured approach that can be applied to math. A tutor who uses the Orton–Gillingham approach, or a reading program based on it, might be a possible candidate.PsychologistsSome psychologists who evaluate kids for learning and thinking differences may be trained to teach math concepts with a multisensory structured approach.A regular math tutorSomeone who has experience working with kids who have dyscalculia might be a great candidate.Where to find a tutorYour child’s school is the best place to start. The special education teacher, math teacher, or caseworker may have a list of qualified tutors. Getting referrals from other parents who have kids with dyscalculia is another good option.Two groups keep lists of certified educational therapists. They are the Association of Educational Therapists and the National Institute for Learning Development.Most commercial tutoring centers won’t have the specialized instruction your child needs. One exception is the Lindamood–Bell Program. It’s best known for its reading program. But it also offers math tutoring that may be helpful for kids with dyscalculia. Lindamood–Bell has many centers throughout the United States.No matter where you find the tutor, it’s important to know the tutor who will work directly with your child. Be sure to ask about the tutor’s qualifications.How much tutoring costsParents usually have to pay out of pocket for private tutoring. Rates can range from $40 to $125 an hour. It can be much higher in large cities.In some cases, a school district might pay for a tutor to provide compensatory instruction to a child as part of their IEP. Private tutoring can require a major commitment of time and money. But tutoring can help your child develop a better understanding of math and math concepts. Learn about places that offer free or low-cost tutoring.
In It
Dyscalculia, more than “bad at math”
When it’s time to split a bill or calculate a tip, lots of people confess to “not being a math person.” But when does struggling with math mean something more?When it’s time to split a bill or calculate a tip, lots of people confess to “not being a math person.” But when does struggling with math mean something more?On this week’s show, hosts Lexi Walters Wright and Amanda Morin discuss dyscalculia, a specific learning disability in math. Expert Daniel Ansari, PhD, explains why kids with dyscalculia have trouble understanding number-related concepts, like time and directions.We also spend time with Lily, a teen with dyscalculia. We hear how math challenges pop up at expected times — like when she makes grilled cheese sandwiches for her family.And of course we hear from callers about their experiences with dyscalculia and why being “bad at math” often gets overlooked.Related resourcesUnderstanding dyscalculia10 surprising ways dyscalculia impacts kidsMath anxiety vs. dyscalculia: Comparing the signsVideo: Why is dyslexia diagnosed more often than dyscalculia?What “I’m not a math person” means to meEpisode transcriptAmanda Morin: Hey, "In It" listeners. Before we get started today, we have a small but important ask: Please take our quick survey about who you are, what you like about our show so far, and what you want to hear more of. Head to U.org/podcast. Take a three-minute survey — really just three minutes. That's U dot org slash podcast. And thanks. Your input means so much. Amanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, a writer for Understood.org and parent of kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi Walters Wright: And I'm Lexi Walters Wright, community manager for Understood.org. And we are "In It." "In It" is a podcast from Understood for Parents. On our show, we offer support and practical advice for families whose kids are struggling with speech and language, executive functioning, and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: Today, we're talking about helping our kids who struggle with math — like really struggle with math. Lily: So sometimes when I'm doing a certain problem, my brain — it just kind of gets stuck. Amanda: This is Lily. She's 13, and she's had a hard time with math for as long as she can remember. Lexi: Amanda, lots of people have a hard time with math. I definitely did as a kid, and I still clam up the moment I need to calculate a tip. I know some adults who feel allergic to Excel documents. Amanda: So you've met me and my Excel document allergy. And lots of us have those moments. That's called "math anxiety." But what Lily's dealing with is different. It's a learning disability often called dyscalculia, which you'll hear pronounced in a number of different ways. No matter which way you hear pronounced, you can sort of still hear the word "calculate" in there. And dyscalculia, at its most basic, is about difficulty with number sense — adding, multiplication — and sometimes visual-spatial skills things, like where you don't know left from right very easily. Lexi: The thing is, compared to something like dyslexia, dyscalculia is not widely known. So it can leave kids like Lily, who have it, feeling dumb. Lily: Yeah. I just kind of thought that I was bad at math, until I was 12. Amanda: We're going to hear more from Lily in a bit, and from her mom, Tracie. Lexi: But first, we asked you what dyscalculia looks like in your family. And here's what you had to say. Caller 1: For my daughter, when she was in elementary school, she really struggled with reading the clock, being on time for her classroom. Adding and subtracting is super difficult. And then math homework took hours and hours and caused a lot of anxiety. Caller 2: Long division — that was literally a nightmare. She just could not handle keeping track of every step and where to put each and every one of the numbers. Caller 3: A bigger trigger for us in noticing something was wrong, though, was his inability to connect with the idea of time and the passage of time. For him, everything was now. The idea of tomorrow or yesterday really didn't register for him at all. And when you started talking about longer spans of time, like weeks or months, he was just completely bewildered by that. Once he started kindergarten, he also really struggled with the idea of money. And while other kids were picking up the idea of penny, dime, quarter, or nickel, he couldn't associate the different values with those coins in any way. Amanda: So as we're hearing, Lexi, dyscalculia can play out in many ways. Lexi: Yeah, this sounds like a very complicated topic. Amanda: It really is, and it's not exactly my specialty. So we're turning to someone else to help us really get a grasp of what it's all about. Lexi: First I have to ask your professional opinion: Is it dis-CAL-coo-li-a? Dis-cal-CYOO-li-a? What do you say? Daniel Ansari: I say developmental dis-cal-CYOO-li-a. But you know, people vary in the way they pronounce it. Yeah. Amanda: Daniel Ansari is a professor of psychology and education at the University of Western Ontario in Canada. He studies how children develop numerical and mathematical skills — and why for some children it can be such a struggle. Lexi: Daniel says there are other names for dyscalculia, like math learning disability or mathematics disorder. Daniel: I think they can be used pretty much interchangeably, because they point to the same thing. I find dyscalculia useful because we hear so much about dyslexia. The contrast to dyslexia helps, I think, some people to better understand what it is. Lexi: And how would you explain dyscalculia to someone who's never heard of it before? Daniel: I would say dyscalculia is a severe difficulty in acquiring basic numerical and mathematical skills. Being able to judge which of two numbers is numerically larger. They will also have great difficulties in learning their math facts. Lexi: Daniel says that long after their peers have figured out which two numbers add up to 10 and they can do simple calculations in their head, kids with dyscalculia may still be counting on their fingers. And sure, that makes math class tricky. But dyscalculia doesn't just shut off when kids walk in the door from school. Lily: I guess I'll just make my grilled cheese. Lexi: That's 13-year-old Lily again. She lives in Kansas City, Missouri. She has an older sister, a younger brother, and a pet guinea pig, Fezzy, who is named after Fezzik from "The Princess Bride." Amanda: Lily and her mom said it was OK to come to her house to see what dyscalculia looks like for her. Lexi: It comes up when she's doing her math homework, but also when she's trying to make lunch for the family. Lily: I have to put the butter in here and melt it in the microwave so it doesn't take forever. Amanda: When you're making a grilled cheese sandwich, you're probably not thinking about all the steps it requires. But for people with dyscalculia, going through a long sequence of steps in a row can be a real challenge. Lily: First you have to do this, then you have to do this, and it just kind of makes my brain tired. Lexi: Lily was diagnosed with dyscalculia two years ago. Before that, she just knew that math was really hard for her — which was confusing, because reading and writing have always come easily to her. Lily: I can read like a 300-page book in less than a day. Lexi: But Lily's math troubles go back as far as first grade. Lily: So a really long time ago, when I was having trouble with even addition, it just took so long — just takes longer for my brain to calculate things. Amanda: She understands that about herself now. But when she was younger, those math struggles made her really upset. Lily: I would usually cry about it, because that's what I do. Yeah, and I'd yell, because I was just so mad that I couldn't get it right. And then I'd kind of start thinking about like, "Oh, other people can do this, so why can't I?" Tracie (Lily's mom): She would say things to me those times when she was upset. Amanda: That's Tracie, Lily's mom. Tracie: And I won't repeat them because they're not true. But just really down on herself, and that no mom wants to hear her daughter, who is, you know, at that point 10, 11, to have that view of herself, you know, it's starting to go into all areas. And I didn't want her to think that just because there is a struggle in one area that means that she's an awful person. Lexi: All this was hard on Tracie, too. Tracie: I can remember one instance where she brought home a math paper and it was, you know, she had gotten like half of them wrong. I just felt so deflated because 45 minutes a night we were spending on math. And I just thought "Oh my gosh," you know. And then getting the next chapter's homework and I'm like, "Wait a minute, we're not getting it." And I kind of thought, "What is this going to look like in two or three years?" Lexi: Tracie had studied to become an elementary school teacher. And while it was never her plan to homeschool Lily, she and her husband decided that might be best. Amanda: So now Tracie was the one trying to teach Lily math. But no matter how hard they worked on it, it didn't seem to be getting any easier. Tracie: I just kept telling myself "I haven't found the right curriculum yet." So we would start with something that was new, and I would get really, really excited, like "We are going to get through this hurdle. The answer is going to be in the curriculum." And then after a couple months, we're still stuck in the same — in the same place. And I think both of us were kind of feeling — we would get very emotional, not just with each other but... I know I would cry and worry about, you know, are we ever... what's this going to be like for her, you know, as she's an adult. Because that's what moms do — we always go to that place. So, you know, it just felt like, you know, August rolls around every year and I'd have hope, and then by October that feeling in my gut would sink. You know, I would just think, "Oh gosh here we go again." Lexi: Even though she's an educator, Tracie had never heard of dyscalculia. She says she came across it while reading up on dyslexia online. Tracie: And then I went down the rabbit hole. So it was all new to me. Amanda: For Lily, discovering there was such a thing as a math disorder was a big deal. Lily: It was a relief knowing that there was really nothing wrong, and that I just need to learn differently. Like I had always worried that once I got to adulthood, I wouldn't be able to do things because I was so bad at math. Amanda: Lily started working with an educational therapist — a specialist who's trained in working with kids with learning and thinking differences. Together they figured out techniques to make math easier and more accessible for her. Lily: Once I started going to Mrs. McCormick's and I started figuring things out, I realized that with more work I could go into a store and be like, "Hey, 20 percent off — this means I can get this for so much," and not have to think about it so much. Amanda: Daniel, can you talk a little bit about some of those methods that can help children learn math? Daniel: Yeah. I mean, there's no proven method for, you know, for helping somebody with developmental dyscalculia. But I think it's good educational principles that run across different educational subjects, such as giving students who struggle more time, repeating things more often, providing them with opportunities to strengthen their basic understanding of numbers. Making sure that they understand that, for example, the Arabic numeral 5 represents all possible sets of five objects. That's quite an abstract thing to understand, and it may take children with math difficulties more time to learn. Amanda: So like five means five cookies and five blocks and five more minutes and... so five means five, right? Daniel: Exactly. Lexi: Tracie tells us they've found some really effective ways to work with Lily on math. Tracie: So one of the things that we found was when she was first tackling things like multiplication, that what worked best for her was to have some manipulatives, so that she could touch it, move it around. Lexi: Wait. Amanda, what are manipulatives? Amanda: So manipulatives are when you use objects that you can move around in order to connect those abstract ideas of groups, sets, or patterns to visuals, so you can actually see and, well, manipulate the numbers. Lexi: Got it. Tracie: And a dry erase board worked wonders for calculations. And we still use that because erasing is really fast and it's not so labor intensive when you make a mistake. And that's kind of what — it's OK to make a mistake, it's OK to struggle — so we just wipe it away and start fresh. Lexi: So here's one game Lily learned to work on visual-spatial skills. On a chalkboard, Tracie draws a figure 8. Tracie: It's not too wonky, is it? Lily: No, it looks fine. Amanda: Then Lily starts tracing over it. Tracie: Left, right, ready, begin. Amanda: As she traces left, she has to say left. As she traces right, she says right. Lexi: And then her mom starts firing off questions. Math questions or something else related to numbers. Tracie: When's your birthday? Lily: Right. March 21st. Left. Tracie: When is my birthday? Lily: Right. I think it's May 9th. Left. Tracie: Oh no! Lily: Sorry! Is it May 7th? Tracie: Yes. Lily: OK. Sorry. Amanda: It's that combination of keeping multiple things in our working memory that she's developing there. Some of that's a muscle memory thing, where Lily is learning to recognize the feeling of going left with where left is, and the feeling of going right with where right is. But some of it's about being able to access that information quickly while there are other things going on in the background. So for example, if she were going to start driving, she'd need to be able to listen to the GPS and know right and left automatically. That's the kind of thing this is starting to work on for her. Lexi: Another thing they do to help Lily is to put lots of number-related information around the house. Tracie: See that up there? It's on our chalkboard. We have all of the squared numbers — one times one equals on, two times two equals four — to give her an anchor. So if she's got six times eight and she's stuck and she can't remember, she has six times six to go off of. And then she can do the math from there. She has a multiplication chart, too. It's the multiplication table, one through 12. And I give that to her any time that she needs it. Just the more she can see them visually, the better it's going to stick in her head. Lexi: Lily has made incredible progress in the last two years. But some things are still hard for her, like going to the store. Lily: So I'm kind of trying to work on that, and sometimes I think it's more of a — I don't know — fear of social issue. But paying is a little hard for me. Yeah. So the store is kind of one of the main places. Tracie: One of the things that I notice is when there's a lot of people and she's in line, that's kind of off-putting for her. You know the stress of "Oh my gosh, I have to do this and I have to do it fast." She doesn't want them to get mad at her. So I've noticed that. Caller 1: Now that my daughter is a teenager, dyscalculia looks a lot different. The things we struggle with are helping her manage her money, so her wallet is a complete disaster. There's bunches of dollars rolled up in it. There's too much change in there, because she struggles with continuing to add and subtract money, as well as to identify what the money denominations really are. Caller 4: The driving — a lot of times he would get lost, and that is a huge anxiety issue, because he would not know where he was, because he would try to follow somebody's directions of turning right or left. So I would teach him to look for landmarks, so that when he would call us and he was upset and didn't know where was and was mislocated, so we could determine his location. The GPS "find me" apps that we can put on a smartphone for tracking are really useful for that too. That's it. Thank you. Andrea Tudhope: Is there any advice that you would give to parents who are just learning that their child has dyscalculia or are going through some of what you guys have gone through? Lexi: That's Andrea, the reporter we sent to spend some time with Tracie and Lily. Tracie: I would just say to not worry so much about if your child is working at whatever grade level they're supposed to be in. Really, it's just important to have the master number sense and those things that are their struggle. And I know it's really hard to do that, because that's just not how — that's not how we operate with school. But it's just so important to meet them where they're at and to work on the things that they're struggling with, so that they can overcome those — so that they're not always a struggle. And just to be patient and trust the process. Amanda: Why isn't it more well-known? Why aren't math issues sort of more widely discussed the way dyslexia is? Daniel: I think, at least in the West, we have a tolerance for being bad at math. It's not something that people feel shy about admitting. I often — when I meet new people and they ask me what I do, and I tell them, you know, "I do research into math learning difficulties," it's like, "Oh my God, I wish I'd met you when I was young." Amanda: I think we have this conception that math doesn't — sometimes doesn't matter. You always use our smartphone or a calculator. But how do we use it in everyday life? Daniel: We use numbers all the time without actually thinking about the fact that we're using numerical information. Just think about waking up in the morning, and let's say you open your computer or you look at your smartphone, and you look at your favorite news site. You're immediately processing numerical information. You go to your office, you look at your bank statement, you're trying to understand the transactions, you're trying to understand how it is that you've got this balance, and you're trying to add up the different expenditures and things that came into your account. Again you need numerical information. Lexi: So Amanda, imagine — say 10 or 15 years from now — that dyscalculia is as well-known and as readily diagnosed as dyslexia is. That could really bring about a profound shift in how parents and educators respond to students with math disorders. Amanda: Totally. And you know we're still getting there with dyslexia and ADHD. If we get there with dyscalculia, it would probably also bring about a profound shift in how those students think about themselves. According to Tracie, that seems to be the case with Lily. Tracie: I know her therapist and I always say, "You can't say you're bad at math anymore — you can say it's a challenge and that you work harder at it than some people." We try to say that repeatedly to her, so that that internal dialogue changes. And so when she does come against the struggle again with math, to not have that initial reaction of, "Oh I'm really bad at this." To just stop and say, "This is hard. I need to fall back on, you know, the strategies that I use in order to figure this out." Lexi: As her sense of her abilities has shifted, Lily's gotten more confident in other areas too — like cooking. In fact, she has become something of a grilled cheese expert. Lily: It usually takes less time to cook on the other side than it does the first side, because the pan's already hot and all that. So yeah, it should probably only be about three more minutes. Amanda: And she offers these words of wisdom, which I fully support. Lily: If you use a lot of butter, it's better. Like that's the secret to a good grilled cheese: butter. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood for Parents. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids with learning and thinking differences. Lexi: We also want to hear what you think of our show. "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find resources. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot o r g slash podcast.Amanda: We heard from several of you after "Episode 2: How to Deal With 'Is ADHD Real?'" And we wanted to play some of your awesome voice memos to let you know we are listening. Caller 5: I'm calling about the question of "Is ADHD real?" It's hard for me to sometimes respond to that question because I feel I don't have the emotional energy or the courage to do that. And then I realize that if I don't, I'm putting it on my first-grade son to be the one to have to respond to that as he gets older, and that's not fair to him. But I also feel like it shouldn't be just on the parents of children with ADHD to answer that question, and that schools and pediatricians and all the people that are important part of children's lives need to do a better job of communicating what is ADHD and what are other forms of learning differences and attention issues and disabilities. So it's not just on the individual to negotiate that, to be the ones to explain themselves. Amanda: Please keep your voice memos coming. This is, after all, a show for and about families like yours — and mine. If you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Maybe share it with your child's math teacher even. You can also go to Apple podcasts and rate us, which is a great way to let other people know about "In It." Lexi: You can subscribe to "In It" on Apple podcasts, follow us on Spotify, or keep up with us however you listen to podcasts. Between episodes, you can find Understood on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and YouTube. Or visit our website: U — that's the letter U — dot o r g. Amanda: Come back next episode when we'll be talking about the unique challenges of raising kids who are gifted and who have learning and thinking differences. Penny Williams: I mean, he was really severely affected by the fact that he couldn't meet expectations and that people didn't understand him. Lexi: If you have stories about raising twice-exceptional kids, you can call and leave a voice message that we just might use on the next episode of "In It." You'll find that number at U.org/podcast. Amanda: "In It" is a production of Understood for Parents. Our show is produced by Blake Eskin of Noun and Verb Rodeo, Julie Subrin, and Julia Botero. Mike Errico wrote our theme music, and Laura Kusnyer is our director of editorial content. Thanks also this week to reporter Andrea Tudhope. Lexi: And thanks to all of you for listening and for being in it with us.
Dyscalculia: Questions from families answered
Lots of families wonder about dyscalculia and what it means. Is it the same as math anxiety? Is it “number dyslexia”? Get answers to common questions about dyscalculia.
In It
Math anxiety, dyscalculia, and other reasons math can be hard for kids
Why is math so hard for some kids? And what can we do about it? Find out from a special education and math teacher. Why is math so hard for so many kids? And what can we do about it? In this episode, hosts Rachel Bozek and Gretchen Vierstra take a deep dive into math with special education and math teacher Brendan Hodnett. Tune in to learn about dyscalculia, a learning disability in math. Find out how other learning and thinking differences can impact math, too. Hear Brendan describe math anxiety, and what strategies can help. You’ll even learn an easy breathing strategy for calming math nerves. Plus, get tips for fun ways to practice math at home. Related resources Understanding why kids struggle with mathWhat is math anxiety?Signs of dyscalculia at different agesHow games can help kids get better at math Episode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs...Rachel: ...the ups and downs... Gretchen: ...of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor raising two kids with ADHD. Today, we're talking about math. Gretchen: Did your heart just sink a little when you heard the word "math"? Rachel: A little bit. Gretchen: If so, you're not alone. So many of us get stressed out thinking about math. And even if we don't ourselves, many of us are raising kids who do. Rachel: Maybe you have a kid who has math anxiety, which, yes, is a real thing. Or maybe they have a way of learning or thinking that makes math especially challenging. Gretchen: Whatever it is that's making math hard for your kid at home or at school, there are tools and strategies that can help. And we are very lucky to have special education and math teacher Brendan Hodnett with us today to talk about some of them. Rachel: Besides teaching middle school kids, Brendan is also an adjunct professor at Hunter College in New York City, where he offers courses on inclusive ways to teach math. Gretchen: Brendan, welcome to "In It." Brendan: Hi. Thank you for having me. Gretchen: We're so happy to have you here today. So we are going to be getting into some of the learning and thinking differences that might make math challenging. But before we do that, we just kind of want to talk about math and ask more broadly: Why do you think so many people think they are bad at math? Including maybe myself? Brendan: Yeah, so I see this a lot. I'm currently teaching middle school, and I think by the time students get to middle school, I can attest that most students think they are bad at math or dislike it. And I think that comes from a couple of things. One, math is very different than the other core subjects that they're learning about. Primarily, students are focused in math on either getting it right or getting it wrong. And when you have that fail rate that's a little higher in one class than the other, you might sort of feel like, "I'm not good at this." You know, even if we're talking about 70% accuracy, that feels like, oh, I'm not good at this when I'm getting, you know, I'm doing so much better in my other classes. Whereas being right 70% of the time, like this is a conversation we have, you know, in middle school pretty regularly. That's actually pretty accurate. So I think this notion of I've got too many wrong today makes me feel like I'm bad at this, right? Also, where's the in-between? Like was I close to right? Like is that even a conversation that we get to have with our students and our parents with their children? Like, well, were you close? Were you on the right track? Are you making progress? Those kinds of things tend to not happen. So I think that's where we start right now. Rachel: So here's a question. If you have a kid who is really struggling with math, it might be because of some of the reasons that we've just talked about. But it could be that they're struggling because of a learning or thinking difference. Can you give us a couple of examples of what we should be on the lookout for to figure out if that's what's going on? Brendan: Sure. Yeah. And I think that happens a lot. I think that's hard to determine. Is this an issue where, you know, a child just has some negative feelings about the subject and they're resistant to it, versus a child who continues to struggle with the same concepts over and over again, right? So if we're thinking about at an early age, you know, we're thinking about how kids are asked to grab a certain number of objects and they bring back the wrong number of objects, right? Or if we're asking them to sort by shape and color and put three here and four there and you know which one has more — questions like that that are you know, we start very early on even in preschool. If we see students continue to make the same mistakes with those types of questions, all right, that might be a red flag. Maybe there's something we should pay attention to, right? So now we're getting into elementary school. And as the students around them are progressing through, let's say, you know, memorizing their multiplication facts or using addition and subtraction without having to count on their fingers. And we have a child who's still counting on their fingers — two, three grade levels pass when they learned it. If we're stuck in those early, you know, like I say, early elementary techniques and strategies that we use to problem-solve, that can be a red flag. Like, OK, there might be a bigger issue here. It's not just that ah, I don't like math so I wasn't paying attention that much today. Gretchen: What would you call that — that understanding you were just describing where you know, you know how to group things, you know how to add on and what like a group of things might mean. What's that called in the math world? Brendan: Well, so there's, you know, depending on which skill we're talking about, you know, there's your ability to perform math calculations, right? And your number sense. So your true understanding of, you know, the value of numbers. You know, as students progress through elementary school and we build on these skills, that sort of become second nature for those students who might not have a disconnect with math numbers and math symbols. But for someone who does, that's where we might see something where we would consider a math learning disability. You know, for lack of a better term, we use the term "dyscalculia" in special education. But oftentimes in schools we just refer to them as a math learning disability. It's also a mouthful to say "dyscalculia." Gretchen: It is. And what exactly is it? Can you explain it for us? Brendan: Sure. So if we think about, like students who are resistant to math or get nervous about math, that tends to show up more in like high-stakes situations, right? So, like, their working memory shuts down. Their fact recall. They can't remember procedures or the math facts that they just practiced the day before. When that happens, when they sort of blank out on a test, that's not really an indication that there's a math learning disability there. What we would be concerned about is if they're never able to remember the math facts. If they're never able to get past that point of, OK, you told it to me. I practiced it. A couple minutes later, I'm still getting it wrong. That's where, you know, a teacher would have a red flag and say, OK, I need to talk to the parents. What is it that maybe they're seeing at home? And then once the larger group starts to have this conversation around, you know, the child who might be struggling a little bit in school, and then we hear from the parents and we say, yeah, you know, we still are working on like left and right shoe. Or we're still working on like, you know, following directions, like, oh, you want to go to the house three doors down to the right and they went in the wrong direction. Those are some things that would be red flags for parents to say, OK, maybe there's a bigger issue. Now that's not specific to just dyscalculia. But now when you pair that with some of the things we're seeing in school, all right, then that might be an area where we have to start doing an evaluation to see if there's a math learning disability there. Rachel: So are there other learning and thinking differences besides dyscalculia that can make math learning challenging? I'm thinking — so for my own kids, both of whom have ADHD. And this has been more of an issue for my son, who's in eighth grade, and he's really good at math. So he is actually a kid who's like, "This is my thing," right? But he struggles with the "show your work" requirement. Brendan: Sure. Rachel: And that added step, I feel like for him, it's a lot to unpack, right? It's like his brain is moving so fast that he can get the right answer. But if he needs to slow down enough to fully explain how he got to it, that's where he gets tripped up. So can you talk a little bit about whether that is kind of really part of this conversation or any other learning and thinking differences that kind of reveal themselves, you know, through math. Brendan: So I'm glad you brought up showing work, right? So I think a lot of families might be seeing students at home doing homework and they're not showing any work and they're getting many questions wrong. I have to be honest. That's kind of the nature of students right now who do so much work online. They want to write less and less and less. So how do we start to separate is this an issue because you're having trouble writing, or is it an issue because you're sort of resistant to it, because you're not used to having to write as much and you think it's easier if you don't have to? That being said, if you have a child, let's say, who has dysgraphia or dyspraxia, both of which can really affect handwriting, and there's so much handwriting involved in showing your work for, you know, a multi-step math calculation. Well, there can be a lot of miscalculations there because of a handwriting issue. And if once we're able to identify which one is causing the miscalculation, then we can identify how to support it and better support that child. Gretchen: Couldn't it also be a reading challenge sometimes, right? Like, I think about all of the math as you get up into the upper grades that has reading involved, like reading a story of a problem. And then having to not only get the reading right, but then maybe to have to get the writing right when you have to explain your answer. Brendan: Right. So one of the learning disabilities that a lot of children have, you know, two in one, right? So we call them co-morbid. What we're saying there is that if a child has dyscalculia, they also may have another learning disability, and dyslexia is one of them. And what happens is some of those characteristics overlap and one in particular is difficulty with working memory, right? So it's — yes, it's in our short-term memory, but then we have to then apply it. And that is something that both students with dyslexia, students with dyscalculia, students with ADHD struggle with. So think about how much working memory we need to solve math problems. It's not only fact recall, but then holding that fact that we just calculated to then apply it to the next step of the problem. There's so many missteps along the way when we struggle with working memory. And you alluded to reading and writing as well. And just understanding the symbols of mathematics, understanding the vocabulary of math, especially as it gets more and more challenging in the later grades. And they're supposed to pick that up and apply it to the next problem that they're solving. That can be really challenging. I mean, as I say this, I feel like, yeah, it sounds hard for anybody, you know. But now imagine having one or two learning disabilities and you're struggling through class. You can understand why — back to the first part of our conversation — why many kids would be resistant to this subject to begin with. Rachel: So I'm curious what drew you to math? Like, did you like it as a kid? Did something click for you at some point where you were like, oh, I get why this works or why this is fun? Brendan: Yeah, you know, math was something I was always, you know, fairly good at — feeling — I felt pretty confident in the subject. And I think that stems all the way back to my middle school years. I started to realize not only was I confident in my math ability, but I was I was really comfortable in thinking of how to solve problems in a variety of ways. And I think that's probably my strongest suit as a special education math teacher is that I don't expect things to be done one way only. Everything can't be the same. That's the opposite of what we're trying to do. We want that flexibility. We want all of our students to shine. And we have to, you know, differentiate what it is that we do enough for everyone to feel like they have some success. And I — you know, I think having those opportunities as a young kid to really take those risks and to help out some of the people around me who just hated the subject, who just hated it. They had to power through it. And I said, "Oh, let me show you something different." I remember doing that at a pretty early age and I felt like, yeah, I kind of ended up here for a reason. Gretchen: I remember those students when I was in math and struggling who I'd be like, they know how to answer this differently. I'm going to ask them how they're doing it. Brendan: I do joke with my students now. I said, oh, I got in a lot of trouble in seventh grade. And they said, for what? I said, I was talking all the time in class. And they said, you were talking? I'm like, yeah, but I was helping kids. And they're like, what do you mean? And I was like, yeah, they would come to me for the answer, but I wouldn't give them the answer. I would say, well, show me what you're doing. It's like exactly what I do now. And they just laugh at me like, you wouldn't do that. I swear, that's exactly what I was doing in seventh grade math. Gretchen: Well, that's awesome. Rachel: So, Brendan, we sometimes hear about math anxiety, which I think is more than just the average nervousness that some of us feel when it comes to doing math or just doing calculations. Can you talk a little bit about math anxiety — what it is and how to help kids who have it or how to address it? Brendan: Yeah, this is something I think over the last decade has really gotten a lot of attention, and I think for really good reason. One, I think students were being not necessarily misdiagnosed with, let's say, learning disabilities or just, you know, being put into math interventions because of a non-math issue, right? The issue is we're feeling anxious. We're nervous. We're so afraid we're going to get something wrong that it it blocks us from doing the things we do know how to do, right? And that's real. When you feel that kind of anxiety, it sort of takes over a portion of your brain that's separate from where the mathematical calculations and reasoning would take place. And then what happens is it actually throws up a blocker within your working memory. So suddenly yesterday you were getting every question right, and then today it's like you can't even remember what was taught. And you're taking the test and you're nervous, or somebody is working with you and you get nervous. And that blocker goes up and now you're stuck. And I think there are some things that we can do as both parents and teachers to kind of sort of let's bring that wall down, let's get past that nervousness. So a couple of strategies that I've been utilizing specifically over the last couple of years: When we are working towards something that's a little more high-stakes, I like to build confidence with something really low-stakes. All right? So I was giving a test today, and the test was not an easy one. Some difficult concepts in there. But one of the foundational concepts was just multiplying with positive and negative numbers, or adding with positive and negative numbers — things that I know my students have mastered. So I gave them three minutes, 10 quick questions. Every kid got, you know, walked away from those three minutes with eight or nine or ten correct. And I said, "Doesn't that feel good? Like you really know this stuff? Like you really are confident, let's keep that ball rolling and move into something a little more challenging."That can be done at any age level. When you step into a challenging situation with a little more confidence, you're willing to take the risk. You're willing to kind of power through some of that problem-solving you might need to do. So that would be my first recommendation. My second one, you know, this one's a little bit more new age, I guess, is the best way to describe it. Just doing some breathwork to try to relieve some of that anxiety. There's one that I really love, and this one is called a physiological sigh. You know, the physiological sigh is? You ever heard that before? Rachel: No, but I think I'm about to do one. Brendan: Yeah, we're all going to do one. This one is great. So when you're starting to feel really anxious — and this would work, you know, in any particular situation. But I have my students do this when I can tell the anxiety level is high and I need them to just kind of calm down. Sometimes the energy's just really high and I need the room to just settle. And what we do is you want to take an inhale in almost to the point of a full capacity. Pause for a second, and then a second inhale, like a quicker one. And then once you've done that, then you let it out slowly. All right? So it's like a full, you know, almost a full inhale, and then a little bit more, and then let it out. And really just two of those. You automatically just feel your body just go ahhh. So my students like that one, too. It's nice and calming and then, OK, we're ready to... Rachel: I'm going to do that later. Gretchen: I feel like I must have had math anxiety now. Like you just described this, and I feel like that's what would happen to me sometimes on tests, as I would be so — you're right. My working memory was blocked by the fear and the anxiety that I had that I would just blank out, even though I knew how to do something the day before. I would just completely blank out. And I would feel my body tingle and I'd get all sweaty. And if I had done that breathing, I might have been better off. Rachel: Well, and I think that happens for a lot of kids too, is like they decide they're not good at something. And then it's just like, over. Brendan: And that can be a major concern if you write it off by third or fourth grade, which the research shows many people decide they are good or bad at math by third or fourth grade. And that's — I think that's also why I teach middle school, because I'm like, all right, it's my job to convince you you're not bad at math, that there's you know, there's things you're really great at and you can be confident in. And we're going to lean on those strengths. And everything else? There's strategies to get around it. Rachel: So what can parents and caregivers do at home, like from a fun stuff perspective? Like what kinds of games or like things they can do at home so it feels a little different from a classroom lesson. But that will still help a child who's struggling with or is just like, I hate math.Brendan: The first thing we want to do is be careful with the language that we use, right? If we're negative about math, our kids are going to be negative about math. Right? Unless they're totally resistant to what we're saying. Rachel: So not like, I hate it, right? Brendan: I started — you know, it doesn't mean we can't say, you know, I struggled with it, too. That's OK. Rachel: Right. Brendan: Because if you follow "I struggled with it, too" with "But I found ways to get good at it. And I felt really confident in this particular area. Maybe that'll be something you're going to be good at too." Having those kind of positive conversations around math. More of a — you know, we talk about a growth mindset a lot, but having that notion of it's really about your progress. It's not about mastery. I'm not expecting to be perfect at this, but I want to see that you're getting better because I know, you know, if I worked on something really hard, I could get better at it. I think you can to, you know, those positive reinforcement opportunities should be around progress, not mastery. So I think that's step one. You referenced playing some games at home. I think that's the easiest way to work in math skills. I think a lot of people look for the perfect game to practice the skill that their kids might be struggling with. We don't need to do that, right? We want to find games that are engaging and fun and having our kids work through, you know, problem-solving, mathematical reasoning. So just things like Connect Four. To this day, I still have middle-schoolers playing Connect Four and they love it. Not because they love Connect Four. They love the competition of it, right? There's so much embedded in something like Connect Four, where they're looking at patterns, where they're trying to see, like strategize, like, OK, if I go, what are my three steps ahead of me? Right? It's like playing chess, but a little bit easier. And they love it. And that's a really good skill to then carry with them into the math class. So other games that parents might be comfortable playing with are Uno, or card games, you know, using a traditional deck of cards to play games. So games like like 21. They can work in specific math skills without, you know, kids feeling like, hey, I'm sitting here doing math. So if your goal is to get to 21 and you have, you know, eight in front of you, what are you hoping comes out next? If it's low, should we take, you know, take another card? Should we not? Having those conversations back and forth. You're talking about like really good math skills because you're making predictions based on your ability to add, subtract, find the difference, make number comparisons. But you're not doing math. You're not sitting down solving math problems on a worksheet or on a computer, which kids seem to be so resistant to. Rachel: Those are really great. And another thing that I do at home, that's not really a game, but it's just like I try to sneak the math into, you know, when we're cooking. Or if I see that there's something coming up with a lot of fractions, I'm just like, come here, help me with this. Brendan: Cooking is such a good example of where math is utilized all the time. And we're not necessarily thinking like, OK, I'm sitting down solving math problems, I'm just measuring some things out. Rachel: And they don't feel like they're doing math. Brendan: Right? I need to triple this recipe so how many do I need altogether? Another really good one is just measuring things out. Right? So you're hanging curtains or you're building something in the garage. That constant use of the measuring tape is one of the best things you can do to help students understand numbers between whole numbers, right? All these fractional parts in between can be so challenging for many of our students. And just having that knowledge — that visual representation of where it falls in between. And are we talking about halves? Are we talking about fourths? Things like that. It's really — it can be really powerful. Gretchen: OK. We have one last question for you, Brendan. You know, let's say our kid is just saying "I'm bad at math" and we're just letting them throw in the towel on it. Or maybe I threw in my own towel on math. So if we're doing that, if we're kind of giving up on math, what are we missing out on in life if we don't appreciate and love math? Brendan: All right. That's a great question. I think math provides you with a level of confidence in your ability to take on really challenging tasks. And, you know, I try to explain as — especially as math gets so much more difficult through grade levels — I try to explain, like, you may never graph a linear function in real life. You may not stop to do that. But if you can do this, what does that mean you're able to do in your own personal life? And I think that's, in a way, what we're getting to do mathematically. They're able to then apply in various problem-solving situations and analyze different situations. And you don't have to become an engineer or a finance major just to need to know math. I think that's the message that I would pass on, is that just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. Gretchen: I appreciate that. Thank you so much for all of your math wisdom and your breathing techniques. And I really appreciated all of it. Rachel: Thank you for those. Brendan: I'm glad you guys enjoyed them. Gretchen: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network. Rachel: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you. Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. Gretchen: And thanks for always being in it with us.
Dyscalculia or math anxiety? Compare the signs in kids
You may have noticed that your child seems anxious about doing math homework or getting ready for a math test. And then your child makes math mistakes. But what’s causing it? Is it a case of math anxiety? Or is it dyscalculia, a learning disability in math? Or maybe both? Dyscalculia and math anxiety often overlap. Both can affect how kids perform in math. But while these challenges sometimes look the same, they’re actually different.Dyscalculia is a learning challenge that causes trouble with math. Dyscalculia can make it hard for kids to understand math concepts or do tasks that involve math. Math anxiety is an intense feeling of worry about math. Math anxiety can make kids question their abilities in math, even if they have strong skills.Think of it this way: Doing math with dyscalculia is like hiking with an injury and not being able to climb to the peak. Doing math with math anxiety is like hiking while constantly worrying about what might happen if you try to climb to the peak.This chart can help you understand what you’re seeing in your child.Watch as an expert explains more about the difference between dyscalculia and math anxiety.Knowing what’s behind your child’s difficulty with math helps you to respond in the best way. Find out what to do if you’re concerned that your child has dyscalculia. If you think your child has anxiety, use this anxiety log to keep track of what you’re seeing. If you have concerns, don’t hesitate to reach out to your child’s health care provider.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!
How starting a creative small business fit my ADHD and dyscalculia
Lindsay Miguelez has ADHD and dyscalculia. College wasn’t right for her, so she took a shot at starting her own wedding photography business.When you have ADHD and dyscalculia, you need lots of tricks for keeping up while running a business. Taking advantage of her smartphone is just one of the tricks Lindsay Miguelez uses. Like so many of us, when Lindsay was growing up, she was told that she wouldn’t always have a calculator in her pocket to help with math. Thank goodness that was wrong!It took seven years of struggling in college for Lindsay to decide to focus on wedding photography. Today, she’s in demand for her whimsical, romantic style. Of course, she still faces doubt and fear of failure. But she knows that sometimes you just have to say yes and figure things out later. This week on How’d You Get That Job?!, explore how you can take a passion and turn it into a career. Hear about Lindsay’s journey, and get her tips for starting a small creative business.Related resourcesWhat is dyscalculia?Dyscalculia fact sheetEntrepreneurs who learn and think differentlyEpisode transcript Lindsay: Maybe because I grew up performing, I love that, you know, we have a start time and it's go, go, go. And things have to keep moving. You can't pause. You've got to keep going. When I was tested years ago for my learning disabilities, they actually found that I had a super high processing speed. Um, and so I feel like because of that, I just love, I love the fast pace. I just love the go, go, go.Eleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou, and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.Have you ever thought about running your own small business or making a passion into a career? Our next guest, Lindsay Miguelez, turned her love of photography into a thriving business as a wedding photographer. But it wasn't easy. Lindsay has ADHD, executive functioning challenges, and a math learning difference called dyscalculia. In this episode, we're going to talk to her about her learning differences and how she got her small business going. Welcome to the show, Lindsay.Lindsay: Hi.Eleni: So, Lindsay, I know that you're a wedding photographer. What is your favorite thing about your job?Lindsay: Well, there's a ton of things. I think just having the freedom to make my own rules. I like to say that a lot. I mean, obviously I'm serving my clients. I have my couples that I love dearly, and I'm providing a service for them, but just really being able to take my business in directions that I want it to go in, that I know that I have, you know, where my strengths are and where my weaknesses are, and where, you know, I, when I started my business, there were things that I tried to do that I just came to the realization that just were not going to work out and weren't benefiting me. So just being able to take my business in the direction that I want it to, and just not having someone make rules for me and telling me, you know, what to do.Eleni: Yeah, definitely. Is entrepreneurship something that you were always interested in?Lindsay: Actually, no. Um, my dad's an entrepreneur, but I just never, ever thought of that. I was gung-ho on going to college, and I was getting a history degree. I just kept my creative, you know, things like photography and dance, um, just things that I was going to keep as a hobby, and I never thought that that would ever amount to any sort of career.So I was very focused on school, which at the same time was doing horrible in and having the most troubles, but it wasn't till I made the decision to stop going to college that I was going to pursue what I really wanted in life, what I was passionate about. And, you know, I wanted to always, I knew since I was little, that I was not meant for a typical nine-to-five job. I knew that I wanted to do something that I truly loved. I felt like I looked around at people who got their, you know, had their careers, but they just complained about their jobs all the time and they hated it. And I've never been the kind of person that looks at something just for money that, "OK, I'm going to do this because of the money." I want to do something that I love.So it was really, until I made that decision seven years ago to start my business, that I was like, "OK, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm going to, you know, run my own business." And that was very foreign to me. I'd never done that before. So that was definitely a learning process. Figuring out how to do that.Eleni: Definitely. You mentioned that you always knew a nine-to-five wasn't necessarily for you. And one of the things that you love about entrepreneurship is this idea of being able to do what you want and, um, you know, not necessarily have to answer to other people. I would love for you to talk about how that might relate to your differences, and, you know, we haven't really talked about what your differences are. So if you could like introduce what some of your differences are and, you know, if you've thought about how that might connect.Lindsay: Yeah, definitely. Um, so in the fourth grade, I was officially diagnosed with attention-deficit disorder. I was able to easily fall through the cracks because I wasn't necessarily hyper. I was very shy and quiet, so, but my grades reflected poorly on me. So it took a little bit for, um, teachers to take notice. So my mom got me into testing, and the diagnosis was attention deficit.As I progressed through school, and doing more testing here and there, it came out that I had dyscalculia, which is math dyslexia, which I realized was probably the biggest issue that I had in school and just with my learning differences. And just overall, I am a very visual, hands-on person, and I need to teach myself. So, um, having teachers teach me in a certain way, I wasn't able to comprehend. I wasn't able to do as well as the other students, and I really, really struggled. So I think that having my own business, I've done away with that person telling me how I need to learn this.I mean, even with my camera, when I started my photography business, I wasn't an expert with my camera. I still didn't understand how aperture worked. But it was easier because I could teach myself in a way that I knew I was going to learn. And I can learn from mistakes, which is really how I learn. I, once I make the mistake, I will never, ever make it again, but I have to make that mistake first.Eleni: I think it's interesting to think about, you know, you mentioned teaching yourself photography and then having to learn a lot about running your own business, um, and doing that in the style that works for you. And also setting a business up in a way that plays to your strengths. You mentioned strengths as well, earlier, so, I would love to hear like what some of those lessons were, like what were some of the things that you needed to learn about running your own business?Lindsay: Yeah. Oh my gosh, there is a ton, but just having a creative small business, really learning how to put yourself out there. And there's so much fear that comes with that. I thought, you know, what, what are people going to think about me and this baby business? You know, I know I'm not that good yet, and I'm just learning, but I had to put myself out there.Um, so there was a big lesson that I needed to learn in just saying yes, just doing it, just going for it. I always think of the Tina Fey quote. She's like, "Just say yes and figure it out later." And that's what I kept telling myself, 'cause I would get an inquiry for a wedding, and I had not done a wedding myself and I was super, super scared, and I just, I didn't feel confident.And I just thought, you know, of all the bad things that could happen, what if I mess up? But I just said, "You know what, we're going to book this. I'm going to prepare myself as much as I can. And then of course, you know, that first wedding, I learned a ton just about how the day works, you know, different lighting situations with my camera and everything. So there was a lot of fear I needed to put aside and just put it in the back of my head and just really go for it. And I find myself doing that even today, even though I have a well-established business and I have people willing to hire me and loving my work. There are still things that happen that I do get scared. And I think, "What is this person going to think? Or what if I fail? What if I don't do a good job?" And I had to keep reminding myself, "We're just going to say yes. And we're going to think about it later. We're just going to do it." I mean, even this podcast, I was super nervous, but I'm just like, "We're just going to do it. I know it's going to, it's going to be fine."Eleni: I really enjoyed the way that you phrased that, because I think a lot of people, when they think about like starting anything new, can feel like a really daunting thing, but it's really humbling to think about, well, no one really knows what they're doing until they try. And, um, you know, all of the learnings are so unique to, I'm sure, like your own unique business in your own unique situation. So I'm sure that you're learning, like, you know, what you need to learn for yourself personally, and that may or may not relate to, um, to everyone.So you mentioned ADHD and dyscalculia. Are there any challenges that come up that are related to running a small business, and those differences?Lindsay: Yes, definitely. It's definitely difficult with attention deficit when I have a lot of administrative work. And since I am the sole runner of my business, I do everything. Absolutely everything — emails, accounting, the contracts, paperwork, and also, you know, going out in the field and, and shooting and working with clients. And that I have a very easy time doing. When I am hands-on, when I'm with people, I am completely on, completely focused, and I'm loving every second of it. I can just feel that it's, you know, what I'm meant to do, and this — or just being in person with people and photographing a wedding day, I get a high from it. But when I'm in my office having to edit the thousands and thousands of photos, I — of course, I do love editing because that's the next half of the creative process and producing the images, but it gets hard, being distracted with a house, you know; I have pets, I have laundry, I have things to do.And so, working for yourself, you also need to have self-discipline. And so, sometimes I do wish I had someone who was kind of telling me what to do, even though I love that I don't have anyone in this business telling me what to do. But sometimes I feel like I need somebody to kind of keep me on track because it can just be very overwhelming.I just say my ADD is flaring when I can't concentrate, and I try to do all I can to, you know, to get things done in the time that they need to be done. Um, as far as the dyscalculia, that involves numbers. I always say numbers don't mean anything to me. They don't have any value. And I, I have never understood them. And so obviously, my job doesn't revolve around any math or any computing or anything, but simple things like my prices, like, or the amount someone owes me, I always need to have that written down somewhere because I cannot just pull that from memory. It's even hard for me to remember relatives' ages or birthdays, because it's, it's a number. It doesn't really mean anything to me. So I definitely have difficulty that I, you know, I try to hide when someone's like, "Oh, what's the price of this?" And I just, I just have to make sure, because I know in my brain the numbers are going to get jumbled.Eleni: Yeah. Well, firstly, in terms of what you talked about around, you know, a small business requiring a lot of like time management and organization, we know that, you know, there are like some executive functioning challenges that come with ADHD that relate to organization and time management. So what do you do to cope with that like when your ADHD is flaring?Lindsay: Yes. I definitely have, that's one of the things that I was diagnosed with, like executive dysfunction or I'm not sure exactly the name, but the, I remember in school, they were like, you know, it has to do with note-taking and getting homework in on time and things like that. And that was definitely something that I always had an issue with.So now I utilize my phone, my reminders, my calendar — you know, I know when I need to even remind myself to put an alarm on my phone to start getting ready. But I definitely had trouble in the past when I was first starting in, in that time management and you know, how much time I needed to get from one destination to the other, how much time I needed to really get ready. But now, doing this for many years and having the same types of sessions and the same types of weddings, I utilize my phone and alarms and my calendar to really help me, you know, keep track of time because time is, uh, is another big thing with dyscalculia that's really hard for me to grasp. I always think it takes a lot less time than it does. So in order for me, you know, not to be late, I make sure that I kind of lie to myself and tell myself, you know, if the wedding starts at two, it actually starts at 1:30, and that's the time, you know, I give myself a false time to start and act like that's the starting time. And that way I can ensure that, you know, I will get there on time and I have all my ducks in a row.Eleni: Yeah. I think it's really great to normalize, even though you have a job that requires like some of the things that you struggle with, like the time management organization, you have ways to manage that day to day and that it's still totally possible to like get those things done.We haven't talked too much about dyscalculia on the show, so, um, I think it's really interesting to hear like the way that you describe it around, you know, not necessarily having like a concept of numbers or like being able to understand what they are. And, you know, one of the ways that it comes up is, um, pricing. Do you ever get like any support around, you know, those types of challenges, like either from other people? Are there like coping mechanisms?Lindsay: I think mostly, I mean, the people that really understand how I am with numbers is my mother and my husband. So they are, as far as outsiders, it's very easy for me to just keep these things to myself. I don't want to say it's not a common thing, but you don't usually hear "dyscalculia." A lot of people hear that word and they've never heard it before. They've heard of dyslexia. So I just say, you know, it's kind of like math dyslexia.But you know, as far as in my industry, it's easy to kind of hide those things and something that I felt like I've hid my entire life. I've just known that I've got to pull out my calculator for something, or I have to look at it written down. I'm not going to — if it has anything to do with numbers, I'm just not going to remember. But thankfully in my line of work, I get inquiries, you know, via email. Nothing's ever in person. So I'm able to send pricing and send it already written out, which is good. And then, you know what I have like timeline calls with couples and everything. I make sure I have all the papers out and I see, you know, how many hours they hired me for and how their timeline looks.But a lot of times going through timelines, either creating them or viewing them from planners, sometimes it's hard, too, because it's all different parts of time, and I have to kind of calculate, OK, how much time do I need to do, to do this? Or, you know, what time do they want me to arrive versus, you know, leaving?Um, and a lot of times it's over the phone, and I'm just kind of trying to do the math, you know, to the side really quickly, but sometimes I do get a little anxious and like flustered, um, because I just know that I just can't do mental math easy in my head and quick like other people. And I'm sure no one looking at me is realizing what's going on in my brain and realizing that I'm having a difficulty, um, but, you know, it's just, it's always going to be an insecurity for me. But I'm just glad that phones have calculators and we can have calculators in our pocket all the time, unlike what teachers said in grade school, so.Eleni: Exactly. Yeah, you mentioned, you know, working with couples, obviously that's a really big part of wedding planning, um, and wedding photography. Do you want to talk a little bit about what you like and maybe even what you don't like about working with people?Lindsay: Hm. So, I am an introvert, and I a lot of times like to be alone, but there, um, so you would think that I didn't like working with people. But I think the big crowds of a wedding day, sometimes it can be frustrating with guests because they don't know me; I don't know them. And you're trying to kind of herd masses of people to do certain things. Or you have someone who's like in your shot or walking down the aisle in the middle of the ceremony and, those little things can get annoying and frustrating. And I know it's that way for a lot of people in my industry. Um, but as far as the couples that I get to work with, it has been such a — something I didn't realize that I would love and really cherish the fact that I get to know these people and we become friends or good acquaintances, and they hire me throughout their life and they grow their family and have babies and I get to keep up with them. And it's just, I feel like I have all these friends and, it's just really been, been great to, you know, get to know them and just follow their journey. And it's just, it's really awesome.Eleni: I know that you mentioned early in the conversation that it also gives you an opportunity to be really creative. And, you know, I imagine that a lot of couples have like a very clear vision of, you know, what they would like and what they would want their photographs to look like. Um, how do you help like bring that vision to life and make them feel really special?Lindsay: Yeah, so I really try hard with my consistency to produce the same quality of work and the same style, because there's a lot of different styles in wedding photography these days. I'm very, very up-front with my style, so I make sure that when someone wants to hire me that they do love my style and they like what I produce and they want the same thing. They really trust me with the creativity and to produce, you know, what they're looking for.Eleni: How would you describe your style?Lindsay: My style is light and airy. I like it very crisp and clean. Actual film photography is still a thing. A lot of people are surprised about that. I still shoot digital, but the look of film photography is, is gorgeous to me, but in weddings, I need to see what I've shot. I need to shoot digital. I'm not ready to make the jump to film, but I try to emulate, um, that style, that, you know, just kind of whimsical, romantic style so when, so that when my couples look back at their day, you know, all they feel is obviously happiness from the memories, but I want the photos to portray that as well.Eleni: Can you talk a little bit more about what you enjoy in — on the day of the wedding? I'm sure that a lot of people have misconceptions about what a wedding photographer does. Do you want to talk a little bit about what it looks like on the day?Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. I look at it as just like a big production, maybe 'cause I grew up performing. And so I love that, you know, we have a start time and it's go, go, go. And you know, things have to keep moving. You can't pause. You've got to keep going. When I was tested years ago for my learning disabilities, they actually found that I had a super high processing speed. Um, and so I feel like because of that, I just love, I love the fast pace. I just love the go, go, go. And then I love seeing my couples just relax once they hit the reception, because the ceremony is over and, you know, being in front of the crowd is over, and they're just, they're ready to party and they're ready to have fun. And it's just awesome watching them experience the best day of their lives.Eleni: Aw, that's so sweet. I also love that you really love the fast-paced nature, and that really relates back to, you know, the way that your brain works and your differences, in terms of having a high processing speed. So I love how that all like tied together. Last time we spoke, you said that you were in college for seven years. Why do you think that it took you so long to come to that realization?Lindsay: Yeah, I think about this a lot that, you know, "Oh, if only I had started my business earlier" and "I should have started it earlier." I think that I just never saw a way to do it. I never saw any examples until I was seven years in. My now-husband and I, we had just moved in together. We were dating and — but we were reaching that age where a lot of people were getting married. And so I started seeing other people, you know, posting their engagement photos. So when I decided, hey, I love photography. I see these people running their own businesses, working for themselves full time, being able to do photography, but they're doing it with weddings and portraits. So I got a job at a portrait studio in the mall thinking, you know, "They will teach me how to do this." And, so I did, and they, you know, kind of taught me how to pose, and I learned more about the camera. I only stayed there a couple of months 'cause I thought, "OK, I'm learning enough. Like I want to get this thing going. I have my name picked out. Like, I'm just gonna — I'm just going to go and do this and give it a try." And I did a lot of, you know, free shoots for people. I just contacted everyone and anyone I knew who was a couple or a senior or families to say, "Hey, like, let me take pictures of you. It'll be no charge. You'll get the photos. But I just need to build my portfolio, and I really need to practice."Eleni: That's great. You know, I think for a lot of people there's a lot of pressure, like societal pressure, family pressure, to go down the college route. And it's interesting for you like one of the main blockers really was that you didn't have role models for like people that were doing something different. It wasn't until you saw that in practice that you were able to envision it for yourself. And, you know, we hear about a lot of people that have like a passion or hobby but they didn't believe they can make it into a career. So it's really interesting to hear how you made that happen for yourself, even though it took you a while, you still got there in the end, and it sounds like you've found something that's really compatible with your differences and with your strengths, too, which is really great. Looking back, is there anything that you wish you had known sooner, um, as you were like struggling through school and college?Lindsay: The main thing I was always worried about in college was that, you know, was I going to be successful or not? And that to me in terms was not with money or anything, it just was, you know, doing good in my career but also working a job that I loved. And I really have always had a passion for history, so I knew if I got a job, you know, I would enjoy it. Um, but with college and the way my grades were reflected and how I, you know — all the struggles that I had already faced and that I knew lied ahead in order for me to get my degree, I just, it, it leaves you very insecure. It leaves you feeling like you aren't going to be successful. You're never — you're not going to make it. You're not going to, you know, be the person that you want to be. And it took me at a very, very low point in my college career to decide to quit. And that was my first, that was what I first did; I first quit. I didn't even think of photography. Like I just said, "I have got to stop."I always wanted to be the person to, you know, fall seven times and get up eight, and just keep going, keep going, keep pushing through it. But it breaks you down the more that you fail, and breaks you down mentally. And so my first decision was to stop. And I even thought, "Maybe I'll go back next semester, but I just think that I need to stop." And so I knew I had to do something else. And so, you know, a lot of times when that's, when it feels like this is your only option, you just go for it and you don't look back or look around or anything. You just look forward.Eleni: Yeah. Do you have any advice to people who might want to start a small business based on a passion or hobby?Lindsay: Yeah. I would say, you know, any of those fears that creep up — because they will creep up; I think you're crazy if you don't have any fears — to put them aside and, and literally say yes and figure it out later. When you get any, take any and all opportunities that you can take. And I always tell people, you know, "If you quit, that's the only way you're going to fail is if you quit." If you continue to go, you cannot possibly fail. I think of the artist Lizzo. She said that at one point like she was working for like Liberty Tax and dressing up as the Statue of Liberty even, she was still pursuing her dream, and she just kept going and she did not stop. And that's how she got to where she is today. And just thinking about if she had just stopped and given up, she wouldn't be where she is. And same with me. I wouldn't be where I am. And I see a lot of people in this industry think that it's a lot easier than it is, and they go all in and then they end up quitting.And really, if you just push past those barriers and those struggles and, um, those downfalls, you know, you will make it eventually.Eleni: Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me.Lindsay: Thank you.Eleni: This has been "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about it."How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/thatjob to share your thoughts and to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash that job.Do you have a learning difference and a job you're passionate about? Email us at thatjob@understood.org. If you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job, we'd love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission."How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Grace Tatter. Briana Berry is our production director. Andrew Lee is our editorial lead. Our theme music is created by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show.For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. And Seth Melnick is our executive producer. And I’m your host, Eleni Matheou. Thanks again for listening.
Dyscalculia in grade school: 4 signs you might see
You may be seeing signs of dyscalculia in your grade-schooler — and not just during math homework. Kids can also struggle with some games and everyday activities like telling time. Here are signs you might see in grade school. 1. Avoiding popular games Kids with dyscalculia often avoid games that involve math skills or strategy. Your child might not want to play Uno, War, or other popular children’s games. Rather than joining friends who are playing cards or a board game, your child might prefer playing alone. 2. Forgetting basic math facts What is 2 + 4? Your child may still be mastering addition while most of the class has moved on to multiplication. That’s because kids with dyscalculia tend to have trouble learning and remembering math facts. 3. Using fingers to count Kids with dyscalculia often have trouble with counting and mental math. So when you ask how many carrot sticks are still on the plate, your child might try to show you rather than tell you. Or your child might still use fingers to solve a problem when classmates have moved on to other techniques.4. Having trouble solving word problems Kids with dyscalculia often struggle to connect “clue words” with math operations. Your child may have trouble telling you how many sandwiches to make if each family member wants two. Explore signs of dyscalculia at different ages. And find out what steps to take if you think your child has dyscalculia.
In It
What if the teacher has learning differences, too?
Teacher Kara Ball shares what school was like for her as a student with dyslexia and dyscalculia, and how that experience shapes her work today.We all know that an amazing teacher can have a huge impact on our kids. But is that impact even greater when that teacher learns and thinks differently, too?In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra talk with Kara Ball, a teacher who’s “in it.” Kara shares what school was like for her as a student with dyslexia and dyscalculia, and how her interactions with teachers shaped her experience as a student. Listen in as we learn more about how Kara’s learning differences impact why and how she teaches — and especially how she engages with her students.Related resourcesWhat is dyslexia?What is dyscalculia? Understanding IEPsEpisode transcriptAmanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org. And I'm also a parent to kids who learn differently. And this is "In It." "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On the show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We're going to offer perspective advice, stories for, from, and by people who have challenges with reading, focus, and other learning differences. And I am so excited to be joined by my co-host, Gretchen Vierstra. Gretchen, want to introduce yourself?Gretchen: Sure. Hi everyone. I'm Gretchen, and I work at Understood with Amanda as an editor, and I'm a former classroom teacher. And gosh, when I was teaching, I wish I had known everything I know now from Understood. I'm also a mom of two, and Amanda and I talk about our kids all the time. So I'm happy to be doing this podcast with you, Amanda. Amanda: I am so excited you're doing this with me, Gretchen. And I'm really excited about this first episode of the season.Gretchen: Amanda and I have been thinking a lot about what a big transition this is right now for so many kids and parents heading back to school — like a real physical building — after a year or more of being remote.Amanda: I mean, on the one hand, let's be real. Many of us are so excited to get our kids out of the house. But on the other hand, over the past months, we may have learned things we didn't know about our kids as students, and may be a little worried that our kids' teachers aren't going to get them.Gretchen: That's why I wanted to talk to Kara Ball. Kara is an elementary school teacher in Maryland. She's a science and stem education specialist. And in 2018, she was a National Teacher of the Year finalist.Amanda: We wanted to talk to Kara not only because she's a great teacher, but also because she's someone who learns and thinks differently. She has both dyslexia and dyscalculia, which can make number-related tasks difficult. And she brings that perspective into the classroom in such a beautiful way. Gretchen: We started by asking her why she wanted to become a teacher.Kara: Yeah. So I am one of the few people that has always known that they've wanted to be a teacher. The first recollection I have of that is in the basement of my childhood home, my grandmother, who was a teacher, I gave me one of those classroom-in-a-kit boxes, where it would come with the chalkboard and the stickers and a red pen — basically everything you needed to be a teacher.And I would spend every summer in the basement of my childhood home, hoarding all of the handouts and worksheets that my teachers would give us to use in my classroom where my students — a class of three: my baby sister, baby brother, and my father who was by far, the most challenging student I've ever had as a teacher — would learn all about the things I learned in school. And I absolutely loved that classroom, but had a very difficult time being a student in the classrooms in the schools I attended. I wasn't diagnosed until third grade with dyslexia, and I made it all the way to sixth grade before I was identified as having dyscalculia. So reading was really challenging. Math was really challenging. School as a whole just seemed impossible. And when I was growing up, special education services were very much something you did in the, like, the classroom in the back of the building, out of sight, out of mind. And my dad who was also dyslexic, did not want me to experience that type of education.And I am lucky enough to have a grandmother who was a teacher, a dad who also identified like myself as someone being dyslexic, who advocated on my behalf to be able to have an inclusion model of education in which I received the services in the classroom, but were pulled out to be able to get the supports that I needed, which was kind of unheard of at the time. I mean, this was the late eighties, early nineties that I was in school. But even with those advocates, it didn't change that I went through the day to day, the school day, trying to — I remember choral reading where you would get a book and you would have to like read out loud of a certain passage. I would spend my entire like period not listening or comprehending everything else that was being read, trying to figure out how to read my little paragraph before they got to me, because I knew that I was going to stumble. I was going to make a mistake. And it was so stress-inducing that I would, I was the kid that asked for a bathroom pass. Anytime we had to read anything, I lied. I was like, I gotta go. Like I just had to get out, because I didn't want anybody to know how difficult it was for me just to keep up.Gretchen: First of all, that story is incredible. Going all the way back to when you were in the basement with that little red kit — I know that red kit, my kids play with that red kit, I think. At least they used to, not anymore. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got diagnosed? And when that happened how that felt for you?Kara: Yeah. So it was Miss Liddy. I have photographic memory, so I pretty much was able to memorize all of the books that we had in our classroom library. So no one caught it, up until third grade, that I couldn't read. My parents read to me. We had books at home. We went to the public library. It was just that it was twice as hard for me to learn how to read, to hold on to words.And she was the first teacher that started doing those small guided reading groups with me, and bringing in books that I didn't have access to in the classroom library that I couldn't listen to a peer read to me and then memorize it before I was assessed on it.Gretchen: So your cover was blown, right? Kara: Exactly. My cover was blown and she was like, "Hey, this might be why, you know, her writing and her print. And this might be why she inverses, you know, her speech sometimes." Like she knew. Amanda: Those moments where a teacher intervenes are so important. And it takes someone like Miss Liddy, who's really paying attention, who's picking up cues and not making assumptions about why a student is or isn't performing well. You know, and it reminds me of when Benjamin, my son, had a chance to talk to Kara about this on a webinar they did. He talked to her about his fourth-grade teacher, Mr. Sloteman, who realized that Benjamin actually paid attention better when he was doodling at the same time as listening. And then what Benjamin thought was so cool is that Mr. Sloteman made sure all the other teachers knew too, so that they could get a better understanding of Benjamin.Gretchen: I love hearing stories like that. I love it when a teacher really notices something about a student and pivots and makes that difference. And in fact, that happened for Kara a lot. She had some great teachers who really impacted her learning in a positive way. But there were also some cases where she had some negative interactions.Kara: For most of my, you know, K through 12 years, I felt like I was the dumbest person ever. As bad as that word is, that was the word that I would have chose because it's what I heard. It's what people said to me or about me, even teachers who, you know, thought I couldn't hear what they were saying because they were, you know, two feet that way, would talk about me in terms of all the things that I couldn't do rather than what I could do.When I hit ninth grade, I encountered a science teacher who would ultimately be the reason I became a STEM education teacher. And Mr. Dalton was somebody who, for whatever reason, looked at me as a less than C average student with an IEP and said, let's give her a shot. And he enrolled me in my first ever honors science class.And I still talk to Mr. Dalton today. He was the second person I told when I was named State Teacher of the Year. Because up until that moment in time, I thought that I wasn't a good student. And it was really interesting because it high school, I managed to have this amazing experience with Mr. Dalton, who got me into science, while simultaneously had my 10th-grade math teacher tell me in front of the class that I was stupid and never going to amount to anything. It still hurts my heart today when I think of how I felt in that moment. I left the class. I was never a rule breaker. I never walked out. I walked out of that classroom. But I walked out of that classroom and I walked to Mr. Dalton's classroom, because I had a safe space. I had a teacher who knew of me beyond what I showed on paper. And if I didn't have the Mr. Dalton, if I didn't have my grandma, if I didn't have my parents, that could have been the day I dropped out.I was a 10th-grade student that didn't have great grades, didn't think I was going to go to college, and had this basement dream of becoming a teacher. But everybody else but one person was saying it wasn't possible. And I didn't. I didn't drop out.Gretchen: Kara, when you were diagnosed then, did that change your perspective on learning? Kara: So it didn't. Like I knew the label. I never really saw the IEP paperwork as a child. I wasn't really in those meetings. I just kind of either had a calculator or didn't have a calculator. I either got to go in a private room or didn't go in a private room.And that's one of the things I work with my students on: understanding why they have these resources and how to be an advocate for themselves. Because a lot of people aren't going to just do it for you. You really have to know how to do it for yourself. And it's that conversation that shifted me to being more willing to talk about it. Because one of the biggest problems I have is that I know my students that have IEPs. I know my students have learning and thinking differences. But I don't hear about them as adults. They don't disappear. Like I'm not magically not dyslexic because I'm 19 and aged out of public school. What happens to you when you're an adult, and being able to show that you can have an IEP, you can be a successful, accomplished adult, you can go to college, is something that's not talked about. And I'm honest with my students, especially my older ones that, you know, it's not always going to go over well. Some conversations are going to have pushback. Like I've had employers where I've had to be like, "don't make me call a lawyer in" type of conversation. Like "I am entitled. I know my rights." But it's taken years of practice to get to that point, to stand up and be able to be an advocate for myself. Cause like, I don't have my parents in the corner. I mean, I could, I could call my mom at any moment and she'd be like, "I'm coming. Let me get the binder." I got years of documentation. But, like, I needed to be able to do that on my own. And it's because of the support systems that I have. And I'm hoping that I'm doing that for my students now.Gretchen: Speaking of families and parents — which by the way, I want to meet your mother with the binder, that sounds amazing — I'm wondering what advice do you have for families who are, you know, they're coming across this with their child for the first time. How can they talk to their teachers? How can they talk to their own child about this? Kara: So my advice to parents always usually starts with educating themselves. That's the first thing, is know your rights. I would love to say that all school systems are gonna follow the law, but that's not always the case. So it really needs to be on them to know their rights and what they're entitled to. And you get the little document at your first initial IEP meeting. Hold on to that. Read it. Do the research.Amanda: Then go to Understood to look at it because it's broken down better at Understood. The document that they give you is totally overwhelming.Kara: It is like you're in law school and are supposed to understand all of this.Amanda: Totally inadvertent plug there. It was just a matter of me thinking like what that document looks like and thinking how overwhelming it is to me. I have a degree in education. I'm a trained special education advocate. And I'm still panicking when they hand me that piece of paper.Kara: And then I would always say to approach any conversation you had with your child through the lens of empathy and compassion. Because you might not understand. Like now there are lots of groups on the internet you could connect with, find other people who might be having similar experiences. It's nice to be able to have a platform where you can share your frustrations, but at the same time, get help and support and something that is unique to you and your family.Gretchen: I'm just curious: Why STEM education? Because you know, for me, for example, growing up in school, math was not my strong suit or science, so I became an English teacher. So what drove you to STEM?Kara: I have always been that curious kid. I want to know everything about everything. And if I don't know, I need to look it up right away. My dad has a degree in biology, and when he saw the things that I was having a hard time with, rather than, you know, telling me to come and sit down and let's work through this textbook, we went out and we did it. So when I didn't understand geometry, we built a two-story treehouse. When I wasn't understanding force and motion, we went out and we made model rockets. We made pinewood derby cars. I was the first female participant in my brother’s pinewood derby for the Boy Scouts troop, and I won. Gretchen: Nice.Kara: But I do a fifth-grade pinewood derby unit with my students. I do a fourth-grade model rocket unit with my students. We design bridges. We do computer science. We do robotics. It's living through the learning as the thing that I really liked. And I also valued and appreciated that failure was celebrated and recognized as a natural part of the learning process, where in other practices and academic areas, with the exception of writing, we don't see that. In writing, you go through edits and drafts. And STEM, you go through iterations and revisions. But in math, you just have to fix it.Gretchen: Yeah. I hear what you're saying, right? The engineering, like the design engineering process, lends itself to this inquisitive trying out things, seeing if there's a new angle to do it. Not always having to stick to the same way of doing something and learning from mistakes. Kara: Yeah. The resiliency and perseverance that you have to learn through STEM education is something that I have always found my students who learn and think differently are better at than my students who have things that come pretty naturally and easy to them. They have the ability and the willingness to persist and to struggle and to productively struggle through things more so than some of their other peers. And all of a sudden, things that would seem so negative become a positive. They're like, oh yeah, I can do this. Like, let's go, let's try it again, try it again, try it again.Gretchen: You know, Kara made a really important point back there about how sometimes we forget that kids with learning differences grow up to be adults with learning differences. Right?Amanda: They don't just disappear. Although hopefully we help those kids develop the skills they need, so they know how to navigate those differences when they grow up.Gretchen: Kara told us a great story about what it's like being a grownup with dyslexia and dyscalculia.Kara: I had a really unique interaction a couple of years ago at a yard sale, which was a fully teachable moment. But I think one of the hard things is that my learning and thinking differences aren't visible to many people and they make a lot of assumptions, even as an adult.I was at a yard sale when somebody was buying something from my mom's table, and I was making change for them. But I used my calculator because I wanted to make sure that I gave the right amount back. And they just passively said, oh, you know, they don't teach math to these kids everyday. First off, I was older than they were. Second off, I was like, first, let me tell you a little bit about myself. So I have dyscalculia. I can't hold on to numbers or digits. I can't make change in my head. I still use my fingers to count if I don't have a piece of paper to solve it out. I have to put this in there because I just can't do it. It's not that I don't understand the sequence, the steps, the process, or the actual, like, you know, how to do the math problem. I just physically can't hold on to digits in my head. And they were actually very receptive to that conversation. They had never heard about that, and they had never taken it into consideration. But that is something I never would have done as a child growing up. I never talked to people publicly about it unless I had to in order to get ADA accommodations. If I had to, because I was going to enroll into a class and I needed my professor to know, but it was a private, behind closed doors. I didn't want to stand out or be seen as being any different than the rest of my peers.When I was named State Teacher of the Year, I had to discuss it with the people that I was working with. And they were like, why don't you talk about this? Like, this is really important. And I talked to my students about it, but I never talked to other adults about it. Because there's still that stigma of shame and embarrassment and not really understanding how to talk to people about it.Amanda: What do you say to your students?Kara: So I usually tell them, I say, oh, you know, it's really hard for me to learn how to pronounce words or, it's not that I'm bad at math. It’s that sometimes math is hard for me, but here is what I do. So like I got switched from fourth grade to fifth grade one year and they were doing partial quotient, and I needed to learn how to do that. And rather than learning, like after hours or during my planning, I told the students that I don't know how to do this. I want to learn with you. So I got myself a textbook and I learned right alongside my students. We went through the problems. I had a couple students that were more proficient at it than I was. And I said, this floor is yours. Like, you tell us how we should do this. Amanda: I have one last question for you. I'm going to ask you the tricky one. What would you say to the math teacher whose class you walked out of? What would you say to him today?Kara: So I actually got the opportunity to sit down with them. It's that I wanted to be the student that he wanted me to be. I don't want to have these problems. I don't want to have to work twice as hard. I was in your remedial math class and afterschool tutoring, like I'm not here because this is fun. And I just wish that he knew that I really wanted to be the student that he wanted me to be. But here we are. Amanda: Here we are. You amounted to a lot, and we are so glad that you came and spoke with us.Gretchen: And thank you for all of your honesty, Kara, and just for sharing your story in a fun way that other folks can relate to. Thank you so much.Kara: Anytime. Thank you so much for having me.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood PodcastNetwork. Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it.Gretchen: Share it with the parents you know. Amanda: Share it with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Gretchen: Go to u.org/init it to share your thoughts and also to find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash in it.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: “In It” is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood.Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry our production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Dyscalculia fact sheet
What is dyscalculia? Click on the download link above to read the fact sheet online, or print it out and give it to friends, family, teachers, co-workers, and anyone else who wants to understand why some people struggle so much with math.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!
Workplace self-advocacy, experimentation, and taking chances: What we’ve learned from this series
In the series finale of How’d You Get THAT Job?!, host Eleni Matheou unpacks what we’ve learned about how people thrive at work. If there’s one thing we’ve learned throughout this show, it’s that people can thrive at work not in spite of their differences, but because of them. People with learning and thinking differences like ADHD, dyslexia, and dyscalculia all have strengths. But sometimes it takes finding the right job — and the right tools — to allow them to shine.In this final episode of How’d You Get THAT Job?!, host Eleni Matheou looks back at themes we’ve seen from guests in the series. Tune in to learn how taking a chance, experimenting with strategies, and asking for support can help you on your career path. Related resourcesHow to ask for a workplace accommodationPerspectives: How did you decide on a career path?Talking about work challenges with co-workers is a game-changer. Here’s how to do it. Episode transcriptEleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host."How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is coming to an end. But we've talked to a lot of people, and it's clear now more than ever that people thrive not in spite of their differences, but because of them. There is not one particular job or industry that is best suited to people with learning and thinking differences. It's really about aligning your work to your unique interests and skills, which means you could do anything.As we're ending the show, I wanted to share some highlights from talking to some of our fantastic guests. In this final episode, I will be sharing four key takeaways that we've learned, and I will be going through some examples of where we've heard these from recent guests.Firstly, many of the guests on the show are freelancers or entrepreneurs — we've seen a lot of people either create flexibility within their existing positions or create new opportunities from the ground up.Secondly, we've learned that choosing the right work environment can allow you to be yourself, get things done, and improve your mood and job satisfaction.Thirdly, experimenting and finding the right tools and supports that work for you is crucial. Almost everyone I spoke to went through a lot of trial and error to create their own unique toolkits.And finally, asking for support does wonders. There's nothing wrong with asking for help, and by doing so, you advocate for yourself and break the stigma for those around you.First up, let's talk about this idea of taking the leap. Gil Gershoni took his first leap towards his own branding firm by saying yes to something he didn't quite know how to do, but he was confident his dyslexic brain could figure it out. He's now the creative director of the branding firm Gershoni Creative. He advocates that dyslexia is a hyper ability, that is a strength, not a deficit. Gil took a risk, and it paid off as his first client.Gil: Yeah, I think that's something that I've heard from a lot of dyslexics that we sort of march on drumbeat, we found our own paths, you know, and if I went to a proper interview and had to write something to do it, I probably would never get the job. But the fact that it just sort of I was open to it, I was at the right place at the right time, and I just kind of took the leap, you know, kind of changed outcome, and it happens every time. I mean, everything we do it sort of starts somewhere around that place.Eleni: Delia Gallegos put time into a hobby of fandom. This side passion helped her balance her work life with her ADHD. She became very involved with Black Nerds Create, a collective for marginalized creators to make fandom content. When she saw they needed help in their business operations, she offered her skills. One thing led to another, and they eventually expanded, and she became the chief financial officer. Now she works in an area that she loves.When you really think about this story, Delia wasn't taking a huge leap, but she did see an opportunity where her skillset was needed.Delia: I was just like, "Hey, you guys seem to need help in these specific areas, specifically like with business operations." That's kind of, in my, at the time, in my day job, was kind of like my bread and butter was I've worked in pretty much most facets of like business operations except HR. And I was like, "I can help, you know, shore that up. Like, why don't we just build this thing out?" And so, that's kind of how it happened. And so, here we are years later, and I am fully the CFO.Eleni: Alex Gilbert is a career coach with dyslexia and ADHD. By taking the lead to start her own business after being laid off from her job, she leaned into her strengths, which just happened to be encouraging other people to lean into this.Alex: And so, when I was laid off, I said, "You know what? It's time." I really wanted to find new ways to support people who are in this space, who could use that extra boost of confidence to know that they had value, to know that they had amazing skills and strengths, that if we just leaned into them and they had a little extra support, that they could do that.Eleni: My next point is about creating the space for yourself. You don't have to create something completely new. You can revamp your existing work and make it feel new. Also, the right environment can make all the difference. It's not always about the work itself. Culture can change everything. If you're able to find a space that fits you better, run with it. Rachel Basoco splits her time between a full-time job at Fidelity, and a part-time role at 11:11 media. She's built this system with flexible hours that work with her ADHD brain.Rachel: I will work later in the afternoons or evenings during the week. And so, I think having a work from home or a more flexible work schedule has been helpful for me in that because it allows me to tap into my most productive, creative, focused times. Like honestly, like between hours of 7 p.m. and 11 p.m., I'm probably the most focused I am all day. I could just like sit and like hammer out a lot, like super focused.But between the hours of probably 2 p.m. and 4 p.m., I'm always like, "I'm useless right now." There's not much I can do to like jump-start that, unless it's something that's new and exciting and I have to create a, again that faux excitement around it. The tools and resources are really just like a) learning how to structure my day so that it works for me, and I can be productive, but b) also being able to communicate with my team and managers and people I work with and having some firm boundaries, which I think took me a while to figure out.Eleni: Michael Upshall Jr. worked at a desk job and would watch the hours go by. The office setting wasn't working with his ADHD and keeping him engaged. It also hurt his work ethic. At his family carpentry business, he's found the right setting for his brain.Michael: Being on-site and having all of the noises and the banging and the, like, just everything, so many different moving components going on. It's crazy how much more energetic and how alive I feel at work rather than almost kind of just feeling like a carcass sitting at a desk all day. And that doesn't mean anything bad towards anybody that does work a desk job. It's certainly not bad at all. It's just, it's really not meant for me.Eleni: Dina Ragab is a lawyer who has determined that the office is not for her. Needing to mask ADHD in the office can be exhausting. Dina's figured out what is important to her in a workplace setting.Dina: I don't know if this is my ADHD or if it's just who I am as a person, I never want to work in an office again. It is immensely important to me to be able to decompress alone. It is immensely important to me to be able to express myself off camera and where my body and my face are not being policed by other people because it is more difficult for me as someone with ADHD. Or maybe it's just who I am. It is more difficult for me to create a neutral body positioning just for someone else's comfort.Eleni: If you're running into the same problem over and over in different environments, you may want to experiment with different tools or strategies. Different things work for different people. Alex Gilbert talks about how a job should be challenging, not hard. This distinction is important as it can help you determine if you're in the right place or if you need more support.Alex: Job should be challenging and not hard. And when you are doing a job where every aspect of your job is hard, it leads you to feel burnt out, frustrated, maybe you even get fired from your job because it's really just not in your wheelhouse of things that you should be doing and you're not really leaning into those strengths. Challenging means you can take something that's really interesting.Like right now, what I'm doing every day is I'm being challenged by new clients who have new situations, and every day is something exciting to me of how can we problem-solve together? I don't find it hard. I'm not sitting here doing, you know, math problems in Excel every moment of my day. Do I do that as a small business owner? Of course I do. But that's not the forefront of what I do.Eleni: Let's talk about Dan Reis. Since being diagnosed with ADHD, he's made it his mission to learn about all the tools that might help him. Dan works as a product designer and has experimented a lot to find what helps him work best.Dan: One of the apps that I've used for a while now Focus@Will, and that's music for focusing app. It's got music that's geared towards keeping you focused, but you can set it up as like a timer and you can choose different tracks. Another one that I found that is really helpful — this was actually a really big game changer for me — so I combined the Pomodoro method of doing 25 minutes on and like 5 minutes off. So, 25 minutes of focused work and then take a break for 5 minutes and then I do a little workout.And that transition I found is really helpful because it is a, it's like I keep up some of that momentum of like I was working and excited and going, and then doing a little bit of a workout gets the heart rate up and it helps me to transition from the work to taking that little bit of a break.Experimentation, testing and learning, and self-compassion combined so that when you struggle and fail or something doesn't work, you are there for yourself and you don't just abandon yourself. You keep trying new things. And I think that week, one- or two-week trials of changing your routines, learning about habits, and learning about how the mind works in terms of like habit building. And then trying things out has been instrumental for me. And it's a constant process.Eleni: Let's go back to career coach Alex Gilbert. She helps people find the setting that they work best in. With that, comes a lot of great tool recommendations.Alex: I love Grammarly and Speechify, and I wish that I had known about that when I was actually in the workplace because that would have saved me a lot of grief. I had adaptive technology when I was in college, so when I had to read really long paragraphs, my books, my textbooks were read to me.Speechify does the same thing with your emails, with your Internet browser. If you've got something in person and you wanted to take a picture of it, and it would still read it to you. I think that's a really great tool that I think should be available to everybody. Grammarly, I think is similarly really important to have because people who have dyslexia or have ADHD, maybe you send emails impulsively. Is that the tone that you wanted to send? Did you miss like several words? Did you miss attaching something when you said you were going to attack something?Eleni: Tools and strategies are not always obvious. Omar says to seize the hyperfocus when it hits. This gets into the world of mindset and strategy. If you're compassionate with yourself and lean into your strengths, you'll find what might derail others, might actually help you accomplish your work.Omar: I think the tendency to procrastinate, which is very, you know, very real for people with ADHD, I think it often comes from procrastinating work that isn't very meaningful to us. My advice is to forgive yourself for that and to try to find some aspect of that same work or new work that does challenge you or more importantly, is meaningful to you. And that kind of sparks that hyperfocus. And then when that focus strikes, don't waste that opportunity. Set aside the time you need. Make space for yourself. Whether that's asking your roommate or your partners to maybe vacate the house for an afternoon or to vacate it yourself, go down to a library or café or wherever you need to go and just start writing it or drawing it or planning it.Eleni: Omar told us about mindset. But what about actions you can take? Let's get a little more specific on routines that you can put in place. For Scottie Donovan and many others, a consistent routine is what helps keep everything on track. Scottie is a wastewater engineer with ADHD, and having a set schedule helps her keep her momentum and on track with her work.Scottie: I also kind of made routines during the day, like during my 9 to 5. You know, I got there at 8:45, I would give myself 15 minutes to have coffee and just, you know, get all settled up until 9:30, you can answer emails and then, you know, go get more coffee or something if you need it. So, it's like organizing my day a little bit differently was definitely something that helped. And then planning out my day as well. I gave myself 15 minutes every morning to, you know, make a list of what I felt I could accomplish that day, you know, versus what needed to be done.Just breaking it apart a little bit and putting in that time to organize yourself every morning, really, definitely was helpful. I'm a big list person now as well. I have a calendar, but then I also have an agenda. I have to have both because I know I need to be able to see both. And I think it maybe just took also a level of maturity and me growing up, to be honest with myself and with other people about how I work and working with people that understood that was nice.Eleni: Scottie mentioned another great thing we've heard from a lot of guests on the show. It's important when working with others to set clear expectations and ask for help when you need it. Dina advocates for herself while also taking into account the working styles of her coworkers and how they mesh with her own. It's about opening up a conversation to truly work best together.Dina: Advocating for yourself in a way where you are honest about what you need, but without putting your issues as front and center. So, what do I mean by that? I have ADHD, right? And that means that I need to do things a little bit differently. But if I spend all my time explaining to everybody else, I have ADHD and these are all the reasons why I need to do this stuff. I'm actually neglecting the part of the conversation where someone else who may be neurotypical or who may be neuro spicy to just simply explain to me what they need to make their lives easier.Eleni: Clare Otter, a disability advocate with ADHD, shares that accommodations are not special privileges, they're legal entitlements. Ask for help. It's not a bad thing.Clare: You are entitled to reasonable accommodation. You're entitled to supports in the workplace to accommodate your disability or your learning and thinking difference. Having that confidence, knowing that that's true, believing that that's true. I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm asking for what I'm owed, what I'm due. And then I think the other thing is really preparing, doing some research.A resource that I use all the time is askjan.org, which is a government-run website that is a pretty exhaustive resource of supports and accommodations that are broken down by kind of area of need. So OK, I struggle with executive function. What are the types of things that have been helpful for that. Understood.org too has lots of great resources that can help you sort of think about things that might work for you.Eleni: Though I'm really sad the show is ending, I'm so grateful that we've learned so much together. It's been amazing hearing all of the diverse voices that have been on the show. I really appreciate how everyone has been so open with me and vulnerable enough to share their stories. As a user researcher in my day job, I interview a lot of people and it's very rare that we're given the opportunity to share these interviews in a more public setting. I'm so glad I was given this platform to present other stories and that all of you, our listeners, were able to join in.We set out to discover whether people were truly thriving, not in spite of their difference, but because of it. And this was definitely true for a lot of our guests. For many who came on the show, it was the first time they thought about the questions I asked. My favorite part was seeing our guests take the time to self-reflect and think about how some of their choices, their differences, and their strengths led them to the careers that they're in today. This show has truly been a blast, and I'm so glad that you all came along for the ride. Thank you so much for listening.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learned and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission."How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Margie DeSantis and edited by Mary Mathis. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. And I'm your host, Eleni Matheou. Thank you for listening.
Dyscalculia: Ways to help your child at home
Getting better at math doesn’t only have to happen in school. There ways you can help your child with dyscalculia work on math at home. Here are a few ideas to get you started.
The Opportunity Gap
Growth mindset and the power of “yet”
Learn about the intersection of growth mindset, learning differences, and kids of color. See how young adult Savannah Treviño-Casias finds power in “yet.” What is growth mindset? How can you shift your thinking from “I can’t do it” to “I can’t do it yet?” And why is mindset so important for kids who learn and think differently? This episode explains key concepts through the life experiences of Savannah Treviño-Casias, a young adult who was diagnosed with dyscalculia in sixth grade. Find out how she went from believing she could never do math to powering her way through a college statistics course so she could become a psychologist. Learn about the intersection of growth mindset, learning disabilities, and kids of color. And get tips to help struggling students:Understand the power of yetSet specific goals that they want to reachVisualize their mindsets by drawing and naming themUnderstood resourcesWhat is growth mindset?Growth mindset activities for kids Meet Savannah Treviño-Casias, college student with dyscalculiaRelated resourcesDeveloping a growth mindset with Carol DweckMindset, by Carol DweckThe Magical Yet, by Angela DiTerlizzi Teaching students of color: Looking race in the faceSDSU professor challenges concept widely embraced by educatorsEpisode transcript Julian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. But there's a lot the families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host. Today's episode is about growth mindset, and I'm kicking us off with some inspirational quotes from none other than Michael Jordan. The first reader is my 8-year-old son, and the second reader is my 8-year-old daughter. Julian's son: It's not about the shoes. It's about knowing where you are going. Not forgetting where you started. It's about having the courage to fail, not breaking when you're broken. Julian's daughter: It's about work before glory and what's inside of you. It's doing what they say you can't. It's not about the shoes. It's about what you do in them. Julian: I love this quote, because it's true for everyone. Whether you're the greatest basketball player of all time or you're a struggling student trying to power your way through a single math problem. Mindset is so important, and that's why we're devoting this entire episode to helping kids develop what's called a growth mindset. We're going to explain what that term means, how this kind of mindset can help all kids, and why growth mindset may be especially helpful for kids of color who learn and think differently. I'm so, so, so, so excited to introduce today's guest. At the tender age of 26 years old, Savannah Treviño-Casias has a lot of experience when it comes to developing a growth mindset. Savannah grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, where she was diagnosed with a math learning disability in sixth grade. Savannah recently finished grad school where she studied psychology, and she is now a licensed associate therapist who works with a lot of kids who are struggling in school. Welcome to the show, Savannah. Savannah: Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. Julian: So, before we dive in, I need to ask a quick question, you know, just to break the ice. What is giving you life right now? Savannah: I would say my, all my pets. So, I have a pretty big family of different animals. So, dogs, cats, tortoises. I just love spending time with them. Julian: Wow. I need to have you come over to Philadelphia where I live. My children have convinced me to have a farm at the home. So, we also have two dogs. We have a pond with goldfish and frogs. We have four bunnies. We have two beautiful little ducks. We have a bearded dragon and we have a gecko. Savannah: Wow. Julian: I know. As I'm saying it out loud, I'm like, "Wow, that really is true." But yes, we have that. So, I think between our two households we could have a whole farm. So, I wanted to start off with a couple of quick definitions, Savannah, for folks who have never heard about these terms. How would you define growth mindset and fixed mindset? Savannah: So, with growth mindset, I would define it as the belief that your intelligence and your skills can be improved and developed with hard work, effort, perseverance, and then kind of on the flip side of that, a fixed mindset is the belief that you are pretty much born with a certain set of skills, a certain amount of intelligence, and that can't really change. So, no matter what you do, no matter the amount of time or effort you put into it, things just can't improve or change for you. Julian: I've heard a lot of that with my students in regards to algebra. Many of my students will look at algebra and say, "I am not good at math. I can't do this." And it sounds like that's a fixed mindset, whereas somebody who has a growth mindset might say, I'm not really so good at algebra now, but I'm going to keep practicing. And with time and effort I might get better and I will get better. Savannah: Exactly. That's like spot on, and I love that example. Julian: So, thinking about this growth mindset versus fixed mindset, now, you've experienced this personally at multiple times of your life. Hopefully you can take us back to sixth grade. Math must have been pretty tough for you, especially being diagnosed with a math learning disability. Can you tell us about what life was like back then? Savannah: Sixth grade was really a big turning point for me and the fact that up until then I had really struggled with math, basic math, pretty much since kindergarten. You know, I went to every tutoring company in Phoenix. I was trying to get help for my teachers. I even had private tutors and nothing was really even really helping or I just wasn't getting it. And in sixth grade, my mom had me tested for special education and that's when I was diagnosed with learning disability. And at that time, I was very much against, you know, being special education. I didn't want to be different. And I really thought no matter what, even if I was getting extra help or accommodations, nothing would change that. I just couldn't learn math. Julian: So, then you fast forward to the sophomore year of high school. What was it about 10th grade that helped you change the way you thought about yourself and in particular about your math abilities? Savannah: 10th grade was such a big turning point for me and my experience. When I entered high school, I just knew I was like, I wanted things to be different. I wanted to try to do better in school. I wanted to be a bit more outgoing, and I wanted to view myself in more of a positive light. And for me, that was changing my mindset about math. And I had a really amazing math teacher who worked with me one on one before school, after school, and she told me something that has always stuck with me. And it was that I have a brain for math. That really helped me think and see myself differently and see that I did have potential and that I could learn math. It might take me twice as long, I might have to go to extra tutoring sessions, work really hard with my special education teacher, but I could learn it. And that was OK. It was just really coming to that realization and understanding how I learned. At that point, I understood that for me, I would have to constantly relearn basic math skills over and over again, sometimes even every year that would go by, and just being OK with that and just knowing like, "Hey, that's, it's OK to be that way." Just as long as I put in the work and the effort and the time, then I could actually do grade-level math. And I was. And for me, it was just so amazing. And I think I had gotten like a B in my math class, and that was the first time that had ever happened that I had gotten that high of a grade. I was like, "Wow, I can actually do this." Julian: Do you remember the teacher's name? Savannah: Yeah, her name is Miss Roberson. Julian: Miss Roberson, shout out to Miss Roberson, wherever you are...Savannah: Yeah, shout out.Julian: ...if you're hearing this. It's just so amazing, right? That this one teacher can have such an impact on somebody's life. And, you know, we say it all the time that teachers really are the drivers of so many different things. And sometimes they don't even realize the impact they can have on somebody. But Miss Roberson, all she had to do is tell you you have a brain for it. And look, here we are years later, still talking about it. That's amazing. So, what else happened with this momentum being built, right? You get this feeling that you can do the math, you get a B, you're getting tutoring, you understand that now the work is actually impacting your ability to do it and this fixed mindset starts going away. If there's something that happened at the school level that might have pushed you along even further?Savannah: Yeah, I had a really supportive school. I went to a really small, all-girls public charter school. Julian: OK. Savannah: And so, it's like a really strong community. And also speaking of 10th grade, my mom passed away and so my whole school community really helped me. And as difficult as it was to even just think about focusing on school again, it became a driving force for me to continue forward and to graduate high school and then to go on to college. Julian: Did she always have this dream of you to go on to college? Savannah: That was something that I always grew up knowing, and she always instilled in me was that she wanted me to go to college and she wanted me to do well. Pretty life-changing, I would say. Julian: Here we are, gone through all these different life changes. Obviously, the tragedy of losing your mother, but also having this motivating factor of really pushing you forward. You have a teacher that's in your corner and supporting you and this is your background, right? So, let's talk for a minute about why growth mindset might be especially helpful for kids with things like dyscalculia and dyslexia. Savannah: I think it's especially important for students with dyscalculia, dyslexia, other learning and attention issues. Just because there's a belief that they can't succeed, there's just this underlying belief that, "Oh, they're different" or "They can't learn like other students." I think it's just sometimes it's about defeating feeling and experience — and I know at least it was for me. And I feel like with the growth mindset, it can really help students with dyslexia and dyscalculia have that belief and that understanding like, they can do it, right? They can learn. They can understand different material and learn and grow. And it just might take some extra time or some extra accommodations or effort. Julian: Can you explain for our readers and listeners what dyscalculia is, just like in your own words? Savannah: So, dyscalculia is a math-based learning disability. So, what that means is students having difficulties with kind of foundational math oftentimes that's percentages, fractions, and it can look a little different for everyone. So, I know for myself, I often struggle with percentages or even counting back, right? From 10 to 1 or counting forward. So, I tend to count on my fingers and it's been my go-to to help myself in different instances like that. Julian: Thank you for clarifying. And listeners, you may hear some folks describe dyscalculia as math dyslexia or dyslexia for numbers. But dyslexia and dyscalculia are totally different. Dyscalculia is about trouble with math and numbers. Dyslexia is about trouble with reading and spelling. All right. So, Savannah, you powered all the way through high school. 10th grade was challenging, but also a year of profound growth. You made your way to Arizona State University, and you majored in psychology. This involves taking a bunch of math classes, including statistics. Tell us about your experience with college math class. Savannah: I was placed in an intro math course that I took at the beginning of college, and I did all right, passed it. But when I had to take college algebra, which was a prerequisite — so a class that I had to take in order to get into statistics — I couldn't pass it at Arizona State University, at ASU, and I ended up getting off track for my psychology major. And that was, that was stressful. That was scary. Julian: Yeah, I'm sure. Savannah: Thankfully I had an advisor tell me, "Hey, you can actually take college algebra and trigonometry at a community college,” and that would equate to the required math class that I would need to get into statistics the fall the next year. You know me, I was still a little... math was not my favorite thing. It's not like I wanted to spend my whole summer doing math, but I thought, I'll sign up for these summer math courses. I'll just knock them out so I could get back on track, so I could graduate on time. I'll just give it a try. And so, I signed up for college algebra and trigonometry at a local community college and college algebra went all right. It went well — I got my accommodations were all set. And the problem, though, was my trigonometry class, because my trig professor was not wanting to give me my accommodations. So, he refused to give me my double time on exams or to test in a different room. And then he even made certain comments to me in front of the class, such as, you know, "You just have to try harder" or "You just have to work harder. You don't need your accommodations."Julian: In front of everybody?Savannah: In front of everybody. It felt humiliating. I had done so much work to build up my confidence in myself and in my abilities. But when comments like that were said, it just took me back to those difficult years of having a low self-esteem, and my fixed mindset, little beliefs or statements kept coming back to me. Julian: That is completely unprofessional and completely unnecessary. And if I were that person's administrator, we would be having a long conversation about fixing the way that we deal with our students. But just putting it out there that this is not something that happens in isolation, it feels like it happens more often than not. So, thank you for kind of just sharing. Savannah: Yeah, it was tough. It really was. Yeah, I would try to do all the work and then I would, my tutors/mentors lived an hour away and I would take public transportation all the way to their house after, you know, after those classes. And then I would work on math homework until, sometimes until like 10 p.m. I would work hard. And like I said, also having to re-learn that math again, right? The basic fundamentals of math and then on top of having to learn what was I was supposed to be learning in a class. And so, at the end of the summer, I made it through my math classes. I was keeping documentation and a timeline of different comments and different things. Julian: Oh, I'm glad you said that. Savannah: Yeah, that my trig professor, yes, emails, written timelines. I wanted to make sure that nothing like that would happen with that professor again for any other students with disabilities. So, we made an official complaint and the professor ended up having to take a disability 101 course. Julian: Wow. See? So, using your resources really seems to have made a change not only for yourself but for people coming up behind you. Based on your experience of, especially with the professor and community college and then ASU experiences, what did you learn about the connection between having a growth mindset and self-advocacy? Savannah: Yes, I learned that a big part of having a growth mindset is being able to be an advocate for yourself in the fact that with a growth mindset, it's not that you believe that you can just do it right off the bat, right? It's not, "Oh, I can do anything and everything. I have the potential and I can try these things. I can put in the effort. But a big part of that also means reaching out for help when you need to and knowing when you need help and not being afraid of that, trying not to feel ashamed of that." Because for so long I know I felt ashamed to ask for help or to receive accommodations or even ask questions in class. So, not just knowing like, "Hey, when you're struggling, it's OK to reach out, it's OK to ask for help."Julian: And you definitely, not only conquered the challenge of your trigonometry professor, but you got him to go to school. Savannah: Exactly. Julian: So, there's some learning that happened there, which clearly it helped those coming back behind you. Now while you were in college, I see that you did some research on growth mindset. Tell us about what you found. Savannah: Yeah, I started thinking about and planning for my honors thesis when I was like, "Oh, I could write my paper and my thesis about this specifically."Julian: Hold on, let's pause for a second. Did you just sneak the word honors in? Did I hear that? Savannah: Oh, yes. I went to the ASU Barrett Honors College, specifically. Julian: Look at that, did everybody hear that? So, here we are going on hour-long rides and tutoring and all that. But not only did she do that, but she went to an honors college and did an honors thesis. Continue. Savannah: Thank you. Yeah. So, part of the ASU Barrett experience was that you have to do an honor thesis in order to graduate. I wanted to do something that was meaningful to me, and so, that's when I was like, "Oh, why don't I just do research with growth mindset and learning disabilities?" And then part of my honors thesis was that I wanted to create a workbook specifically for students with disabilities and to help them foster and create and or find a growth mindset. Julian: Talk about full circle. Imagine if sixth grade Savanah had this workbook created by a college Savannah who had experienced all that just...Savannah: Yeah.Julian: ...That's amazing that you had the foresight to think about doing something that directly impacts people that experience the same thing you did. That's really cool. Noticed that you also did some research on Carol Dweck. Can you tell us about what you learned from her research and who she is? Savannah: Yeah. So, Carol Dweck is a psychologist, and she wrote a book called "Mindset" — I highly recommend it. And that's where I really was able to deeply understand or really brought in my understanding of growth and fixed mindsets and all the different ways that they can, you know, be within our lives. School, education, jobs, everything. She really laid it out in a way that was very easy to understand. So, I highly recommend that. Julian: "Mindset" by Carol Dweck. She's one of the leading voices on fixed versus growth mindset. And for decades, many schools and districts have been utilizing that research to address some of the ideas and mindset within school system. But I'm interested, within the body of your research, have you come across anything related to growth mindset and kids of color? And I ask because this is "The Opportunity Gap" and we focus on the intersectionality of race and special education. Just wondering, is there any research out there around growth mindset in kids of color? Or have you found anything yet? Savannah: Yeah. So, in my research, I have found really insightful information specifically about working with students of color and growth mindset. And big takeaway that I had was that it was important to validate and understand that students of color, you know, they're often dealing with all these other concerns, systematic racism, and oppression. And so, never losing sight of those things and never pushing those things aside or thinking that they don't matter, right? So, always having those on the forefront, but at the same time knowing that you can also foster, you know, the desire for growth, for effort, for hard work, but while also being mindful of all these other aspects that are causing all these other concerns. Julian: Yeah, I mean, I know in general the idea of growth mindset is, it's becoming more popular in recent years and there's a large body of research around implementing it. But I do think there's a need for more research to be done specifically with students of color. Savannah: Definitely, yeah. There's still so much more research that needs to happen on that topic. Julian: So, before we go, I'm hoping that you can share some very specific actionable tips to help all of our listeners out there, help their own children or any children develop a growth mindset. So, Savannah, what can parents do to help kids, especially our kids of color, who learn and think differently, shift their mindset from "I can't do X, Y, and Z" to "I can't do X, Y, and Z yet."Savannah: I love it. Exactly. And I'll start with that, is one of the tips that came to my mind. First and foremost was Carol Dweck's idea of the power of "yet," right? Of believing and helping your child understand that if they're going through a struggle or a challenge saying "It's OK. You don't know that quite yet. It's OK. You can get there. We can work on this. We can figure out what resources we might need to help with, so you don't know this yet." So, the power of "yet" is a big one. And then also helping your child set goals, something that they're really interested in and that they want to work towards and to work on. So, helping them have specific goals and then a fun one is that, giving your fixed mindset a persona. So, what I mean by that is kind of making it, whether it be like a little drawing or a little cartoon, something that they can visually see their fixed mindset as. So, I think mine was like a creeping cloud. So, he was a little angry cloud and he had all these kind of fixed mindset words that often come to my mind sometimes: stupid or worthless or incapable. Different things like that. You're like, "Oh, my fixed mindset is being this way," right? Or "My little creeping cloud. Oh, it's just coming up from time to time, but just trying to work through it," right? "We'll push it to the side or push him away." Something like that, right? Making it a bit more tangible and easier to understand. Julian: Yeah. I mean, I was going to say, I think for younger children especially, that makes it very clear. And when we make things concrete for our children, then it really helps solidify their thinking. The flip side to that is also doing the same for the growth mindset. My son is in third grade and their teacher had them create a magical yet where they read a book about the magical yet and then they took time to use clay to create their magical yet and the yet is supposed to help them remind themselves that they might not understand things now, at least not yet, but they're going to get it. So, any time they have a difficult problem or a difficult set of math problems or a difficult set of challenges — because third grade it’s one of those really intensive transitional years —they take out their magical yet and put it on their desk and it's a reminder they have to keep going. So, the tip of naming and giving a personality to a fixed mindset, but also naming and giving something tangible to the growth mindset, can really make things concrete for our children. Listeners, if you want to hear more from this amazing young woman, you can go to Understood.org and read all the columns she wrote for the website back when she was a college student. I also want listeners to know that our show notes include links to three resources about growth mindset, an Understood article called What is Growth Mindset?, a set of principle worksheets called Growth Mindset Activities for Kids, and a nine-minute video on YouTube called Developing a Growth Mindset with Carol Dweck. So, be sure to check these out and keep asking questions to help your child thrive. Savannah, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. This has been a very interesting and informative conversation and I hope our listeners realize that anybody can develop a growth mindset. It's a game changer with how we approach challenges in our lives. And I think Savannah is a testament to the power of having a growth mindset. So, thank you so much. You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you. So, we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Is there a topic you'd like us to cover? We want to hear from you. Email us at OpportunityGap@understood.org. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Julie Rawe and edited by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Dyscalculia in high school: 4 signs you might see
In high school, you may start noticing dyscalculia outside of math class, especially if your teen is learning to drive. Here are four signs of dyscalculia you might see in high school. 1. Freezing when asked math-related questions Kids with dyscalculia tend to have a hard time with basic math facts and doing mental math. Your child may come home after picking up milk at one store and something else at another and have trouble telling you the total cost. Or your teen might need to use a calculator to answer a basic multiplication problem. 2. Always running late Keeping track of time and sticking to a schedule can be hard for kids with dyscalculia. Your child may miss important events and may have trouble getting home in time. At school your teen might often be late for class and even go into the wrong classroom. 3. Trouble sticking to a budgetKids with dyscalculia can have trouble estimating how much things cost. Your child might wildly overestimate how many groceries can be bought with $15. Kids who get an allowance might use it all right away and be confused about why there’s not enough left to buy more.4. Moving too fast or too slowJudging speed and distance can be tough for kids with dyscalculia. Your child may get behind the wheel and zoom past or lag behind other cars on the road. At track practice, your child sprints through the first lap when running a mile — but is exhausted by the second lap. Explore other signs of dyscalculia in kids. And see what steps to take if you think your child may have dyscalculia.
In It
From deep breaths to packed binders: What we learned this season
In this bonus episode, Rachel Bozek and Gretchen Vierstra share a few of their favorite moments from Season 4 of In It. In this bonus episode, Rachel Bozek and Gretchen Vierstra share a few of their favorite moments from Season 4. From self-advocacy at IEP meetings to our kids’ social lives, we covered a lot of ground this season. Tune in to hear which topics the hosts are still thinking about — including why there’s no shame in bringing a five-inch binder to your next parent-teacher conference. Related resources The power of self-advocacy for kids at IEP and 504 meetingsMath anxiety, dyscalculia, and other reasons math can be hard for kidsThe social lives of our kids: When to worry, when to let goHow to make the most of parent-teacher conferencesEpisode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It." I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor raising two kids with ADHD. We're between seasons right now, just taking a little time to rest and also to plan for all the great new episodes we'll start sharing with you in the fall.Gretchen: In the meantime, though, we do not want to leave you in the lurch. So we'll be dropping in some bonus content here in there.Rachel: Today, we're sharing a few of the moments from this past season that have really stayed with us. Maybe they resonated with you.Gretchen: Or maybe they're from an episode you missed. In which case, now is a great time to go back and listen. As always, we'll have links to all of them in the show notes. So, Rachel, want to start us off?Rachel: Sure. So the first moment I want to share comes from our conversation with Melody Maitland on how to empower our kids and teach them to self-advocate, especially when it comes to IEP and 504 meetings.Melody: The first thing to know about advocacy is it's very individualized. So I always start with self-awareness. Does the student I'm working with know their interests, their needs, their strengths, their challenge areas? Do they know what a 504 plan or an IEP is? Do they know what they have that plan for — their diagnosis, their differing ability, disability, whatever we call it? And really just engaging in those conversations, because there tends to be this culture of nicety, like we don't want to tell them because we don't want them to feel bad.But in doing so, we create more stigma by not talking about it, right? That silence speaks volumes about how we view differing abilities. So it starts with that self-awareness. And then really comes that communication piece in supporting them and being able to communicate those needs and strengths and challenge areas.Rachel: So the reason I picked that quote is that I really appreciated Melody's acknowledgment of the importance of a kid being part of this conversation. And I realized while she was telling us about that, that that's not really something I've been doing a lot of. Which is probably the case for a lot of parents. And so I've found it really helpful now, as I've had to look at what's coming for each of my kids' 504s. And it helps me be able to consider including them in the conversation if that's something that they want to do.Gretchen: Yeah, I think that episode that you picked also relates to our more recent episode on getting kids ready for college and real life. And so this idea of teaching our kids early to be self-advocates and to talk about themselves at meetings like that is really important.Rachel: Yeah.Gretchen: So then do you have another favorite pick from this year, Rachel?Rachel: I do. So my second pick is from a conversation we had with Brendan Hodnett on some of the challenges that come up with kids who struggle with math. I was really interested in the distinction between dyscalculia, which is more of a learning difference related to math, and math anxiety, where a student may understand mathematical concepts, but anxiety prevents them from being able to do those operations under pressure, say for an exam or something.And Brendan ended up sharing with us a very simple strategy for decreasing that anxiety. It's a physiological sigh. And needless to say, it can be used in so many different situations and absolutely does not only apply to math anxiety.Brendan: You know what a physiological sigh is? You ever heard of that before?Rachel: No, but I think I'm about to do one.Brendan: Yeah, we're all going to do one. This one is great. So when you when you're starting to feel really anxious and this would work, you know, in any particular situation. But I have my students do this when I can tell the anxiety level is high and I need them to just kind of calm down. Sometimes the energy's just really high and I need the room to just settle.And what we do is you want to take an inhale in almost to the point of a full capacity. Pause for a second, and then a second inhale — like a quicker one. And then once you've done that, then you let it out slowly. All right? So it's like a full, you know, almost a full inhale, then a little bit more, and then let it out. And really just two of those, you automatically just feel your body, just go....Rachel: Yeah. So, yeah, I really loved this. Like while it was happening, when we were talking with him, I was like, this is going to be one of my favorite moments from this season. And it totally was. And it's actually a thing that I have used and done a couple of times. Even though I don't have math exams anymore. I'm kind of feeling like maybe we should do one right now.Gretchen: I think we should.Rachel: OK. I feel so much better. How are you feeling?Gretchen: Good. Good.Rachel: All right. So, Gretchen. Now that we're very relaxed, what are a couple of your most memorable moments from the season?Gretchen: So my first pick is from an episode we did on the social lives of our kids, where we got into how to differentiate between social isolation that may require some help from us, versus social isolation that is just an expression of who our kid is. We were talking to a mom named Ellen about her son. And something she said I think could apply to a lot of us. And that was that our kids can be different from us and may need different things than we did when we were their age.Ellen: Just this last weekend was homecoming. And I asked about homecoming, and he looked at me like I was crazy. Like, why would I want to do that? It was like, have you ever met me? No, that's not my scene.You have these ideas of how your children are going to be and what they're going to be like. And they have their own ideas about what they're going to be. And that's really hard in some ways. And in other ways, you know, it means they're comfortable. And one of the things that has really helped is seeing how comfortable he is in his own skin.Gretchen: So why I picked this is because I have two kids, one in middle, one in high school. And they're so different from each other. One is more social than the other. And I was probably more social than both of them are. And so sometimes I have to keep myself in check and say, this is who they are and they're happy. And as long as I'm aware of anything that might be going on with social media or other woes that can affect teens, as long as I'm checking in, it's OK. So I just really loved that Ellen brought this to light for us to think about.Rachel: Yeah, that's a really good one. Do you have another one?Gretchen: Yes. And I apologize because this clip comes from a conversation we had about parent-teacher conferences. And honestly, I know — who wants to think about that in the middle of summer? But this was a really great conversation with DeJunne' Clarke Jackson, all about how to make the most of these meetings. And as an overpreparer myself, one thing I appreciated is what DeJunne' had to say about how she prepares as a mom to a child with dyslexia and ADHD.DeJunne': I am known as the Five-Inch Binder Mom. And I wear that badge proudly. I have in my binder my son's history all throughout his schooling, all his evaluations, parent-teacher conference notes, his test scores. So all of those things. When I'm having a conversation with a teacher about his progress, those things are important to bring to the table. That conversation is rooted in that information. And so you should absolutely prepare.How much you prepare for, you know, it's individualized, depends on, you know, where your child is, especially if a child doesn't have any — my youngest is 8. And we have been very fortunate to not have our hands on him as much as my oldest. And so my parent-teacher conferences with his teachers look different. And I show up to those meetings with barely a thing in hand. And I'm just there to mostly listen.Gretchen: You're the One-Inch Binder Mom for those briefings, or half an inch.DeJunne': I can say I'm the Spiral Notebook Mom for those.Gretchen: So why did I pick this clip? Well, it's because as parents, we care. And I love that she just made it OK to show that we care.Rachel: I enjoyed that conversation, too. And I remember feeling like, oh, you know, you don't have to apologize for walking in with a long list of questions, or, you know, what some people might call overprepared. Like, that's OK. And I think at the end of the day, teachers appreciate it.Gretchen: Totally.Rachel: OK, So there you have it. As we said before, we have links to each of these episodes. And we'll drop them in the show notes so you can go back and listen if you'd like.Gretchen: We'll be back in a couple of weeks with some summer reading recommendations for and about kids who learn and think differently.Rachel: Till then, we hope you're having a great summer and thanks for listening. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Dyscalculia and managing money
Being able to manage money is an important life skill. But managing money isn’t easy, and many people have a hard time with it for different reasons. Dyscalculia is a learning difference that can make managing money more challenging — and stressful. Dyscalculia makes it hard to do math and everyday tasks that involve math. People with dyscalculia may have trouble with money management tasks like: Figuring out what something costs Estimating the total cost of a group of items Paying for items with cashMaking exact changeKeeping track of spendingThat’s because dyscalculia causes challenges with a set of basic math skills called number sense. Kids and adults with dyscalculia may have trouble understanding concepts like more and less or smaller and larger. They may also not understand quantities. And people with dyscalculia may have other challenges that make doing mental math difficult, like trouble with working memory. All of this can make working with — and managing — money more difficult.
In It
Why kids with learning differences can thrive in STEM
Learn ways STEM can be helpful to kids with learning and thinking differences, like ADHD.You might have heard or seen the acronym STEM in education circles. It stands for science, technology, engineering, and math. And it can be very helpful for kids with learning and thinking differences.In this episode of In It, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek talk with Kara Ball. Kara is the author of 50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM Skills. She has been a science and special education teacher, and a STEM education specialist for Baltimore public schools. She was also a finalist for National Teacher of the Year in 2018. We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org.Timestamps(1:18) Defining STEM(3:16) Kara’s dyslexia and dyscalculia diagnoses(5:07) Why Kara became a special education teacher(8:23) Understanding where STEM and learning and thinking differences meet(20:31) Working on communication and collaborationRelated resourcesWhat is dyslexia?What is dyscalculia?Video: Are boys better at math than girls?What if the teacher has learning differences, too?Kara’s book: 50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM SkillsEpisode transcriptGretchen: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently. Rachel: Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes and yes, sometimes failures, from experts and from parents and caregivers like you. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org. Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it. Today we want to do some myth-busting. Gretchen: And the myth we're busting is the idea that kids who struggle with math, or who have other learning and thinking differences, can't be great in STEM classes. Rachel: STEM stands for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. But as an approach to teaching and learning, it's so much more than that. Gretchen: We're going to get into all of that with STEM expert Kara Ball. Rachel: Kara has been a science and special education teacher, a district STEM specialist for the city of Baltimore, and she was a finalist for National Teacher of the Year in 2018. Gretchen: She's the author of "50 Strategies for Teaching STEAM Skills" and is pursuing a PhD in innovative education. Rachel: She's been a guest on the podcast before, and we're so happy to have her here again. Kara, welcome back to "In It."Gretchen: Yes, we're happy to have you back. Kara: I'm so excited to be back. (1:18) Defining STEMGretchen: So, before we get started, I think it's worth defining what STEAM is, or sometimes it's referred to as STEAM. We know it stands for science, technology, engineering, and math, but it seems to also refer to an approach to learning. It's not just your typical math class where you just have to memorize a whole bunch of stuff and get the answers right, or you get them wrong. Is that right? Can you talk a little bit about what we mean when we say a STEM approach or STEM classes? Kara: Yeah, I know, absolutely. It is an approach to like inquiry-based learning. So, this idea that you follow either like an engineering design process or you're presented with a problem, you do some research, some learning, maybe that's where your experiments exist. And then as you learn more about how to solve the problem, you start to come up with a solution. So, it's this idea that you are creating a solution to solve a problem while learning content through real-world experiences that allow you to apply what you know in a realistic application. Gretchen: Which sounds amazing. Kara: It is. Gretchen: And if someone is referring to it as STEAM, what does the A stand for?Kara: So, the A stands for art, and I will also say that I recently have seen places refer to it as STREAM. So S-T-R-E-A-M and the R is just for robotics. So, some STEAM programmings are heavier in the computer science or robotics programming and they just amplify and added the R for robotics, but it could exist inside of the T for technology or the E for engineering. Rachel: Got it. So, I want to talk a little bit about your experience as a kid. We know it's not uncommon for people to assume that kids with learning and thinking differences, like dyslexia or dyscalculia aren't good at subjects like math or science. And you've written about your own experiences with this growing up. Can you talk about that? What did you struggle with as a student? (3:16) Kara's dyslexia and dyscalculia diagnosesKara: Yeah, so I was diagnosed and third grade with dyslexia. I wasn't meeting the benchmarks for reading. However, I knew all the books in the classroom because I have a photographic memory, so it took a while for my teachers to catch on. I should also add that I come from a family of teachers. So, my grandmother was a teacher. My great-grandmother was a teacher. My aunt was a teacher. My dad is technically a teacher as well, so I had some really good strategies that I could use to help me kind of sort of like get by. But I made it to sixth grade and I couldn't pass the state assessment no matter how many times they tried. And they realized that I had dyscalculia. So I had, some challenges with approaching math in a typical way or the way that my teachers expected me to. But my dad was really great at making those activities realistic for me. So, we talked about that being one of the key factors of STEM education is this realistic application. So, when I couldn't figure out geometry concepts, we went and built a tree house. Like he would make me do the measurements, we would make the blueprint, we put the tape measure, I would cut with the saw, and we would just go through this iterative process. Or if I was having problems understanding physics, we would buy model rocket kits and we would launch model rockets. And I actually ended up doing a lot of those same activities with my students when I was a STEM teacher because I knew how beneficial it is to make these abstract concepts hands-on and real-world for my students. Rachel: That's great. Something that you included in an article you wrote, you said that you wished your 10th-grade math teacher understood how badly you wanted to be the kind of student that they wanted you to be. And so, can you talk a little bit about how your teachers did make things better for you or in some cases, maybe worse? (5:07) Why Kara became a special education teacherKara: Yeah, my 10th-grade math teacher was the catalyst for me wanting to become a special education teacher. Like I had always known that I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be just like my grandmother — she was a fifth-grade science teacher. But I had such a bad experience with my math teachers all through school, but it kind of culminated in that 10th-grade math class where I had been going every day after school to get tutoring because I knew that I was struggling. I wasn't understanding the information the way it was presented, but they just kept presenting it the same way and expected a different outcome. And he got frustrated and just blurted out in front of the class that I was stupid and never going to amount to anything. Gretchen: Oh my God, ugh. Kara: Yeah, like wanted humiliated, wanted to run out of the classroom. And I had a peer who came up to me afterwards who is still a good friend of mine that was like, "I'm so sorry. I know how hard you work. That's not OK." I went home, told my parents, and they were like, "We're going to do something about this," but there's not really a lot that you could do. But I was like, you know, like, there has to be a different experience for students with learning and thinking differences than this. Like, this can't be how it is. Rachel: No. Kara: So, I decided that I was going to major in special education, but I had a sixth-grade science teacher who was the teacher I went to after that math teacher who told me that I was stupid, I'm never going to amount to anything, and his name was Mr. Dalton. And he was the first teacher who saw something in me that I didn't even know existed and was like, "Hey, let's give her a chance in honors science." And I was like, "What? This is an honors class. I don't belong there. Don't you know who I am? Like, I'm the kid that gets Cs and has to see like three tutors and my grandmother comes over on the weekends to drill like, math facts with me. Are you sure you have the right person?" And he was like, "You're really good at this. Like you see science in a different way." And I think that's one of the things that my students do really well in STEM class is they just think about things a little bit differently. There's this assumption that students with learning and thinking differences aren't going to be strong in STEM because they struggle with math, or they're not great at reading right away, rather than looking at those unique strengths like highly creative, great at problem-solving, abstract thinkers. And that's really what makes them so good in STEM education. It's what makes me so good in STEM education. And it just takes one person to say, like, "You can do that," to kind of change the trajectory of your life. And that was Mr. Dalton for me and my 10th-grade math teacher also kind of, sort of, even though it wasn't a positive experience, influenced where I went. Rachel: Yeah. Wow. Gretchen: Okay, Kara, I want to pick up on something you mentioned as being part of your own experience. And that is the assumption that people sometimes make that a kid with learning and thinking differences won't be good at STEM. I'd love to dive into that just a little bit more and maybe hear an example from you. Like if there's a parent listening in there saying, "Well, you know, my kid really loves science and engineering-like topics, but, you know, they struggle with math. So, how can I make the two meet or will the two ever meet?" Do you have any thoughts on that? (8:23) Understanding where STEM and learning and thinking differences meetKara: Yeah, I think they do meet, and I think STEM is the place where they can really sort of thrive because it explains the "Why am I learning this?" Like, why did I need to learn geometry? Because we need to be able to measure these PVC pipes to cut them to build our robot that we're going to use in our sea perch product. Like, it helps to show them the why of it. The other thing that I would say is a lot of my students who have learning and thinking differences have really intense interests. I myself have very intense interests. I am very passionate about the natural sciences and computer science, and it gives me the ability to focus that interest in a way that can be beneficial. Like, I was obsessed with sharks growing up to the point that like my first tattoo was a shark and I do a shark dissection project with my second graders every year. Gretchen: Second graders are dissecting sharks? Hold on.Kara: Second graders are dissecting sharks. Rachel: Wow. Gretchen: I just want to double-check that's what you said. Kara: Like that could be a whole side tangent on giving students early opportunities to show just how capable they are. Gretchen: Wow. Kara: Like, we kind of sort of bubble wrap things for children when they really can. Obviously, it's structured, there's supports, we had volunteers, but yeah, they were looking at external features of spiny fish, dog sharks and trying to figure out what might have like caused that injury or whether or not they had babies. But I see that those interests can be the driving factor for engaging. So, there might be reluctant learners that may be hesitant to participate in school because all they've experienced are challenges. And people like my 10th-grade teacher saying that they're not good at this. And then all of a sudden they can take that thing that they love to learn about, and they can be the expert in the room. They could be the person that tells you all about it. I had a student who I taught for multiple years, and he used to hack our computer school systems and was notorious, like had this reputation that preceded him in such a negative way that did a disservice for every teacher who encountered him. They made these assumptions about him, and I ended up being a third-grade, fourth-grade, and fifth-grade teacher, and we ended up changing that to a computer science focus. Like, "Tell me more about it. Like, how did you get into the grade book? Like, I would like to know how you changed your grade," and realized that they were so incredibly skilled that we weren't seeing it as a strength instead of a weakness. And I ended up having him be part of our school's IT team. So, any time a teacher couldn't get their printer to work... Rachel: I love this. Kara: Or having trouble, my student came down like he had his own badge and lanyard and would show up and... Gretchen: Nice. Kara: And he goes to a magnet computer science school now. Like a student that was predicted to not even, like be successful at middle school, who had a behavior intervention plan, and that was his whole identity, is now a student that's in a magnet school program for computer science. And like we changed his trajectory just because we stopped for a second and said, "Let's talk about the thing that you're really interested in and how can we make those a strength for you. Rachel: That is so awesome. And I don't know how plugged in our audience is to this, but this reminds me of in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" when he gets into the school computer from his room and changes his number of absences. Kara: Yes. Rachel: That's all I can think of when you're telling this story. Kara: Like, how can we just make that into something that's really helpful? Rachel: Yeah, that's really awesome. Gretchen: One last thing I was going to say about this with, you know, kids with learning and thinking differences and STEM is, you know, you brought up earlier that STEM often uses like inquiry, right? And like engineering practices, which is all about trying and failing and trying again. And it seems like that's what happens naturally for lots of kids with learning and thinking differences at the beginning, right? Until they get the supports they need. Kara: Yeah, I think for me personally, like all day long, all I do is like make mistakes and have to reflect on like what worked and what didn't work and pivot and adjust and then use what I've learned to help influence the decisions that I make going forward. And a lot of my students with learning and thinking differences, that is their daily life, whether it's academic social interactions in school or just their daily lives, their ability to persist is so much stronger than my neurotypical students. So, when I present them with STEAM challenge, there's when we do at the beginning of every school year, and it's just to try to build the tallest tower possible and my students with learning and thinking differences just jump right in and are like troubleshooting as they go, where the rest of the students are just kind of like they're cautious to get started, they're hesitant, they don't want to make a mistake, they don't want to fail, and they don't understand that that is part of the learning process. And when I go and I talk to like beginning teachers, STEM teachers about like the one thing that I think is the most important for us to teach and to emphasize is that failure is incredibly important. Like it's more important to teach than success because what you do when you don't get it right the first time, it's going to give you the ability to problem-solve and troubleshoot as you go forward. Like, I learn way more if it takes me a couple of tries than if I get it on the first time and then It's gone from my brain. I don't even remember what I did right. Rachel: Or you just lucked out. Kara: Or I just lucked out. Rachel: Yeah. Kara: But if it's something that I like, I had to do some research, had to try to... So, if my students are like building a bridge — we always have a bridge challenge — and we intentionally design that to have it collapse. Like, I don't want your bridge to stay up. I don't, that's not the goal. I want you to tell me "When does it fail?" And I talk about how that's a really important part of the engineering process. If I'm an engineer and I'm designing a bridge, I need to know how many cars I can put on it before it's going to collapse. I'm not just going to guess and hope that it's ten cars... Gretchen: Right. Kara: If it's nine cars and the bridge collapses, then I need to know that. And we talk about failure through the lens of an engineer and how it guarantees you success if you know the points that are a weakness, like how high can that truck be that drives under the bridge? We see it time and time again, the photos of trucks that drive into bridges because they don't understand their height. I mean, in my book about teaching STEM strategies I have an entire chapter dedicated to activities for helping people teach failure and resiliency. And our students with learning and thinking differences are really good at persisting when challenged. Gretchen: So, speaking of getting people excited as parents and caregivers are listening to this, they might be like, "Wow, like, this is something I want to try with my kid. Like, I bet my kid would really love STEM despite some of the academic challenges they may have at school." So, what kinds of activities can families do at home to help their kids with, you know, growing into a STEM approach or trying STEM activities? Kara: Yeah. So, I would say the first and most important thing is just to promote curiosity, and then that inquiry piece. When we talk about inquiry, it's this idea of exploring things that you wonder about. So, if your child is on a walk around the neighborhood, pointing out the things that they see or encouraging them to ask questions. We do like, color walks. So, if you need like, more structure, like "Let's look for things that are yellow." And if they come to something and they point it out and then it's orange, ask them, "Why do you think it's yellow?" Don't say "That's not, that's not yellow, that's orange." Like, go through a lens of asking questions. The other thing I would say along the lines of questions is don't immediately give them the answer. When I'm doing STEAM challenges with my students, they'll be like, "Can I do this?" And much to their frustration, my response is, "I didn't say you couldn't," because I want them to build confidence and knowing that they have all the information they need, and if they don't, there are places and people they can go to that aren't the adults in the room. Because the assumption that the adults know everything is also not a great way to encourage an inquiry-based mindset. So, with my students, if they ask me something, or with your children, if they ask you something, say, "I don't know," but tell them what you do to find out. "Let's go to the library and look for a book. Let's look online at a government or edu credible website to check the information." Or "Let's try this together." I do a back-to-school session with parents at the beginning of the year just to talk about STEM, and we talk about creating a STEM-friendly environment. If you're going to go and buy a set of building blocks, yes, that themed kit is awesome, but your child's not going to be able to see past what that kit is. Instead, buy the generic bag of the building bricks and let them build whatever. You could give them examples of the Paris Eiffel Tower from the Olympics. It's like, "Man, I wonder if we could build that today," or "Let's build a boat for an action figure." Give them some props, but don't require them to do it exactly step by step. I would also always look out into your community. There are tons of maker spaces, science centers, museums, libraries have big STEM activities. There are community programs. Colleges and universities will hold STEM days. Go out into the community and experience those things, or just go out into nature. Walk a trail, go down by the stream. There's lots of activities to do, so asking questions, using materials that have flexibility to them and are a little unstructured, encourage them to look and use all of their senses. What do you see? What do you hear? What do you taste? Is cautious. What do you touch? The other thing that I would say is if they create something and it's not exactly aligned with what you think it should be, let it exist. When we have our parent meetings, we have a STEAM challenge where the students are supposed to create something for the future out of recycled goods. And this would be like a prototype example that I had a parent who came in and was like, "But my kid put a popsicle stick in a cup and called it a time machine." And I was like, "That's a great time machine. Like, I love that time machine. Like, we're not here to discourage, we're here to encourage. And it's a time machine and it's awesome. And I can't wait to see what she does with the time machine in the future." Gretchen: That's awesome. Can I ask, is cooking considered a STEM activity? Kara: Absolutely. It's just not one that I'm good at. No. Yeah. There's so much experimentation and trial and error. Sometimes your brownies come out and sometimes you forgot to set the timer, and they burned and the smoke alarm went off. Like, absolutely. I think that's also something that people don't understand is all the things that could be STEAM. I had, a little girl that I taught in third grade who didn't want to come to my STEAM class, and that hurt my heart because I'd always had students that were so excited. But she wanted nothing to do with STEAM because she loved fashion. And when she came into class one day, she had those like, Lelli Kelly shoes that like, light up and have sequins all over them. And I was like, "Man, I love the engineer who made those shoes light up. Like, how do you think the lights got there?" Like, and then we talked about the shoes, like how some shoes are designed for running and how some shoes are waterproof and how some shoes go all the way up to your ankle, and some are colorful and some are neutral. And we started looking at all the pieces of fashion and how they were influenced by science, waterproofing of materials, and how water runs off of leaf surfaces in camouflage, and how that's an animal adaptation but we also use it in our design. And she became enthralled with STEM because she saw it across everything that she does. And that's the thing that we like, we want students to understand is that it's everywhere. It's all around you. (20:31) Working on communication and collaborationRachel: So, typically STEM requires collaboration and communication and things that kids with learning and thinking differences might struggle with. What, how can we support them there? Kara: So, we do a lot of structured collaboration with my students, even for my students who are typically developing, especially at the beginning, because STEM is so collaborative, what we like to do is making sure that there are defined roles, and that every student gets a chance to be in a role, and those might vary depending on the activity that you're doing. Clear instructions for what those roles do, that way there's no like, confusion. And at the beginning of the school year we spend time talking about it. But I also let the students tell me what role they prefer over which roles they don't because I also want to honor that. Like myself as somebody who is neurodivergent, does not want to be like the public speaker or be put on the spot. But I'm really, really good at managing the materials and making sure that we have all of the things that we do, because that's where my strengths lie, and honoring the strengths and weaknesses and the comfort that every person has and what they do. With that being said, I also do flexible groupings. So, not always will we work in large groups; sometimes we'll work by ourselves, sometimes we'll work in pairs, sometimes we'll work in large groups, sometimes students can select the groups. Sometimes I assign the groups. If I have a student that I know doesn't do really well with unpredictability, I let them know in advance of what their group is going to be like, "Hey, you're going to be with the blue students today. I know you're a red student, but we're going to put you with the blue group today" and let them have like, the weekend to think about it. I also have, sentence STEMS and posters for like how to start a conversation, how to give feedback. Because students can be really blunt. Rachel: Right? Kara: Really blunt. Rachel: Yes. Kara: And I'm like "Oh, that was harsh. But here's some ways that we could have phrased that," so that it was constructive. And a lot of times it's not done in a way that's intentional. Rachel: Yeah. Kara: Like I have to use artificial intelligence all the time to check my tone because I'm super analytical, cut and dry, straight to the point. Like, if I send an email, I don't always remember to say a greeting or a hello or those standard nuances of communication. I'm like, right to the point. So, we have those posters and sentence starters for students that help them to communicate and collaborate with their groups. The other thing I would say is scaffolding is so important. Like we save our big collaborative projects for the end of the year. We don't start off, we build it either with like guided modeling, some practice or even that like gradual release model where it's like, "OK, watch me, let's do it together. Now go try." You just have to have that ongoing support. Gretchen: So, this has been so exciting talking to you. I just want to go out and do a bunch of projects now. Kara: Yes. I like the projects. Gretchen: Yeah. So, I'm wondering, do you have any cool projects that you're working on now or that you're excited to work on besides obviously writing a dissertation, which is in itself a giant project? Kara: That is a big project. That's a very big project that I hope to finish soon. I have been... I love to hike outside, and I love to camp and do those types of things. So, I've been working on building out different modular units for my car that I can plug in and take out based on the activity that I'm doing. So, I have one for like car camping that has a table that can pull out, and I have another one that has like my paddle boarding equipment. And my hope is to add a car camping. I call them "jigs" that I can like put in my car so I can car camp. And I make them a lot of cardboard first, and then I use that as my template and then I make it out of wood. Rachel: Wow. Gretchen: And is this in a typical-size car or are you talking about putting this all in a van? Kara: No, I have, like a Subaru Crosstrek. A little teeny tiny house trek. Gretchen: Wow. Kara: It's really easy to fit in the parallel parking space in the city, but building out modular compartments to fit my specific needs makes it easier for me to go out and access the outdoors. Gretchen: Oh, my God, I'm so in awe. Rachel: That's so cool.Rachel: Thank you so much. Gretchen: Yes, thank you so much. This has been awesome. Kara: Thanks for having me back. Rachel: Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org. Gretchen: And check out the show notes for this episode, where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned. Rachel: This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood.org. Gretchen: "In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin, with additional production support from Cody Nelson and Ash Beecher. Justin D, Wright, mixes the show and Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. Rachel: From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening. Gretchen: And thanks for always being "in it" with us.
Dyscalculia in Middle School: 4 Signs You Might See
Middle-schoolers with dyscalculia can struggle with more than just math. They could have a hard time making sense of maps and charts or doing things like making phone calls. Here’s what dyscalculia can look like in middle school. 1. Worrying About Getting LostKids with dyscalculia can struggle with directions like left and right and with getting around in new places. Your child may not want to go places without you or explore the neighborhood with friends. At school kids might feel anxious about moving from one classroom to another. 2. Avoiding Numbers Kids with dyscalculia can struggle to remember numbers. They might also have trouble making sense of visual representations of numbers. Your child may not want to make a phone call if it involves looking up the number. At school your child might tune out during lessons that use pie charts and graphs. 3. Trouble Telling Time Kids with dyscalculia often have trouble reading clocks and judging time. Your child may always be running late but doesn’t want to wear a watch. At school your child might have to walk with a buddy to get to class on time. 4. Trouble Making Comparisons Kids with dyscalculia can have trouble with math phrases like greater than or less than. Your child may not be able to tell you if the crowd at this week’s basketball game was bigger than last week’s, even if the difference seems obvious. At school your child may have trouble with word problems that compare one group of items to another. Explore signs of dyscalculia at different ages. And learn about steps to take if you think your child has dyscalculia.
Understood Explains Season 2
How do I emotionally prepare for ADHD diagnosis?
Relief. Anger. Grief. Learn about common reactions to getting diagnosed with ADHD and how to process these feelings so you can keep moving forward. Relief. Anger. Grief. Getting diagnosed with ADHD can bring up a range of emotions. Host Dr. Roberto Olivardia explains what to look for and how to process big feelings so you can keep moving forward. Get answers to common questions, like how imposter syndrome is connected to ADHD.How can I prepare emotionally for an ADHD diagnosis? [00:47]Why is ADHD diagnosis such a relief for some people? [02:04]Why does ADHD diagnosis often lead to anger and grief? [04:44]What’s imposter syndrome? And how is it connected to ADHD? [06:01]Key takeaway, next episode, and credits [07:52]Related resourcesADHD and perfectionismHow I cope with imposter syndrome while having learning disabilitiesADHD Aha!ADHD, loving intensely, and impulsivity (Ange’s story)Celebrities with dyslexia, ADHD, and dyscalculiaSimone Biles says ADHD is “nothing to be ashamed of”Astronaut Scott Kelly opens up about his attention issuesEpisode transcriptYou’re listening to Season 2 of Understood Explains: ADHD Diagnosis in Adults.Today’s episode answers the question “How do I get ready emotionally for an ADHD diagnosis?”My name is Dr. Roberto Olivardia, and I’m a clinical psychologist with more than 20 years of experience evaluating people for things like ADHD. I’m also one of the millions of people who have been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. I’ll be your host.My goal here is to answer the most common questions about ADHD diagnosis. Along the way, you’ll learn a lot about ADHD in general. We’re going to do this quickly — in the next 10 or so minutes. So, let’s get to it.How can I prepare emotionally for an ADHD diagnosis? [00:47]So this is a really, really important, and often overlooked, question. When adults get formally diagnosed with ADHD, they’re likely to experience a range of emotions — some good, some not so good. But the more you can be on the lookout for these emotions, the sooner you can start processing them and help yourself start thriving with ADHD.Now what do I mean by “a range of emotions”? Getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult can bring up a lot of feelings. But I want to focus on three of the most common emotional responses:First, there’s relief. “Whew, I finally have an explanation for why things have been so hard!”Then, there’s grief, which is also really common. “Looking back, I see all the heartache I could have been spared if I’d known sooner about my ADHD.”And, perhaps not surprisingly, anger is also very common. “I’m so mad at everyone who blamed me for being lazy or careless when I was actually trying my best.”I’m going to spend some time today talking about each of these emotions. I’m also going to talk about something called imposter syndrome, which is also very common with ADHD — especially in people who got diagnosed later in life.Why is ADHD diagnosis such a relief for some people? [02:04]I felt a lot of relief when I got diagnosed at 35. So many things just made more sense when I looked at my life through an ADHD lens. Likewise, a lot of my patients who were diagnosed with ADHD as adults have told me how relieved they felt to finally have a name for all of their challenges with things like organization and time management. It can be a huge relief to know the source of your struggles isn’t laziness or lack of intelligence. And this relief often comes with hope or optimism that you’re capable of doing more — if you have the right supports and strategies. I’m thinking right now about one of my patients who got diagnosed with ADHD in his late 20s, but that was after he’d left college because he couldn’t turn his assignments in on time — and after he’d gotten fired from three jobs for the same reason. Time management and procrastination had been big issues for him for a long time and had left him feeling like he just wasn’t meant to succeed. But after he got diagnosed with ADHD and started getting treated for it, his worldview shifted. And he began to feel optimistic that he could change things for the better. Together, he and I worked on some ADHD-friendly ways to get started on tasks without waiting until the last minute. And I’m happy to report that he’s now using these strategies and doing well at work. He feels in control for the first time in his life. Another positive emotion that can come from being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is that suddenly you realize you’re not alone in your struggles. Suddenly you’re part of an ever-expanding community that includes some very successful members, like:Comedian Trevor Noah, who hosted The Daily ShowGrammy-winning singer Solange Knowles Astronaut Scott Kelly, who spent a year in spaceAnd Olympic gold medalists like Michael Phelps and Simone Biles. Pretty good company to be part of!I want to share another positive outcome that I’ve experienced personally. Once you start opening up about your ADHD, you’re likely to discover lots of other people you know have ADHD, too. Being open about my ADHD journey has led people from all areas of my life to tell me they also have ADHD — everyone from strangers I meet on airplanes to my longtime colleagues at Harvard Medical School. Our struggles and strengths may be very different. But in general, it’s a welcoming community with lots of empathy — and often a lot of laughter over what might have been painful experiences at the time, but in hindsight are pretty funny. Like the time I fell asleep for an hour while taking the SAT in high school. And then I took the test again, and managed to stay awake the whole time, but got pretty much the same score. 😄Why does ADHD diagnosis often lead to anger and grief? [04:44] If you’re feeling sad or angry, it might be because you spent a lot of your childhood feeling bad about yourself for disappointing the adults in your life who kept telling you to “just try harder.” You may be angry about all the symptoms that seem so obvious now but that no one picked up on when you were a kid. You may be sad about all the opportunities you missed out on because people underestimated you.When my patients are feeling sad or angry about not getting diagnosed as a child, I tell them what we know about ADHD today is very different from what we knew years or decades ago. It’s totally valid to wonder what life would have been like if you’d gotten the support you needed, but at the same time to focus on the present and keep moving forward. These can be very strong feelings, and it’s important not to get stuck on them — or to try to ignore them. One common strategy for working through these kinds of emotions is to funnel them into educating yourself about ADHD. You can connect to a community of adults with ADHD and empower yourself with knowledge. I often tell my patients that you can’t turn the clock back, but you can view your diagnosis as an invitation to new ways of living your life. What’s imposter syndrome? And how is it connected to ADHD? [06:01]If you’ve ever felt like you faked your way into something, like maybe you fooled someone into hiring you for a job, you were probably experiencing something called imposter syndrome.A big part of imposter syndrome is worrying that, at some point, people are going to figure out you’re a fraud — that you don’t actually deserve to be where you are in life. These kinds of feelings are common among people like me who have ADHD, because we've often spent years trying to hide our struggles. Maybe we feel like we have to work a lot harder than our peers to get stuff done, and that having to work harder is a bad thing.For example, if a person with ADHD gets compliments at work for giving a good presentation, they might worry, “If my managers knew I had to pull an all-nighter to put that presentation together, they’d be horrified.” When I’m working with patients who feel like imposters, I remind them that hard work is worthy of respect — that you can be both intelligent and a hard worker. I also help them look for ways to be more efficient — to “cut corners” in a responsible way.A lot of folks are surprised to learn that many people with ADHD struggle with perfectionism: “If I didn’t do something perfectly, then I’m a total failure.” But with practice, you can learn to catch yourself having these kinds of thoughts and reframe your thinking in a more positive, more accurate way. One more thing about imposter syndrome, and all the other emotions that can come along with an ADHD diagnosis: I want to mention a great podcast from the Understood team, called ADHD Aha! Each episode profiles a different person and the “aha!” moment where they realized they have ADHD. A good episode to start with is the one where account manager Ange Nolan talks about the “ADHD iceberg.” I’ll include a link in the show notes. Key takeaway, next episode, and credits [07:52]OK, listeners, that’s it for Episode 7. If there’s one thing I’m hoping sticks with you, it’s that an ADHD diagnosis can bring up a lot of emotions, and hopefully relief and validation are at the top of the list. But if they’re not, I want you to try to remember that a diagnosis can help you find ways to start moving through life more mindfully and more easily too. Also, I want to welcome you to the ADHD club. We’re a diverse bunch of people from all walks of life who have a lot in common. We’re here to welcome you with open arms, solid information, empathy, and community. Thanks for listening. And I hope you’ll join me for Episode 8, which explains what to do if you don’t meet the formal criteria for an ADHD diagnosis or — on the flip side — if you’re worried you might have been misdiagnosed with ADHD.You’ve been listening to Season 2 of Understood Explains from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources, as well as links to anything we’ve mentioned in the episode. One important note: I don’t prescribe ADHD medication and I don’t have any affiliation with pharmaceutical companies — and neither does Understood. This podcast is intended solely for informational purposes and is not a substitute for a professional diagnosis or for medical advice or treatment. Talk with your health care provider before making any medical decisions.Understood Explains is produced by Julie Rawe and Cody Nelson, who also edited the show. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show.For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.
Dyscalculia in preschool: 4 signs you might see
Trouble with math can show up even before kids start having math class and math homework. Here’s what dyscalculia can look like in very young kids. 1. Trouble connecting numbers to groups of things Kids with dyscalculia often have trouble connecting a number like “4” to groups of things like four cookies, four cars, or four kids. Your child might not know which plate to bring you when you ask for the one with “four cookies” on it. 2. Difficulty sorting objects Kids with dyscalculia often have trouble recognizing patterns, like smallest to largest or tallest to shortest. Your child may struggle to sort things by shape, size, or color. 3. Forgetting important numbers Kids with dyscalculia often have a poor memory when it comes to numbers. Your child may have trouble remember your phone number or that 911 is the number to call in an emergency. 4. Always asking “How much longer?” Kids with dyscalculia can struggle to have an accurate sense of time. Your child might want to know right after breakfast why it’s not lunchtime already. Explore more signs of dyscalculia at different ages. And read about steps to take if you think your child might have dyscalculia.
ADHD Aha!
Not “dumb” or a “hot mess”... it’s ADHD (Jenny Lorenzo’s story)
Jenny Lorenzo was diagnosed with ADHD during the pandemic. Now she knows how her brain works, and she fends off ADHD erasure daily. Before getting diagnosed with ADHD, comedian Jenny Lorenzo felt like she was “dumb” and “not good enough” — a race car without brakes that left disaster behind. As she learns more about ADHD and how it impacts her, she’s pushing back on people who think ADHD is “a joke” and who don’t believe ADHD is real.Jenny co-hosts the Hyphenated podcast, an English-language podcast about living in the hyphen that connects American and Latin culture.On this episode, Jenny shares her take on how ADHD is perceived in Hispanic culture — and how frustrating it is when friends and her community don’t take ADHD seriously. Host Laura Key and Jenny also talk about forgetfulness and why people with ADHD might overexplain things. Jenny also shares that she has dyscalculia, a learning disability in math, and how it impacts her.Related resourcesADHD, time management, and PTSD: What made me a career coachHow I cope with imposter syndrome while having learning disabilitiesWhat is dyscalculia?Episode transcriptJenny: I had a really hard time writing. My brain would think of anything else to do. Clean the house, make animated GIFs, like I would just hyperfocus on something else entirely that wasn't writing. It's like my brain was just like, "Nope, we're not doing it. Nope, nope, nope. It's too hard." Everything was a challenge, like making sure I was always filling up my gas tank and getting my oil checked and organizing my files and responding to email. It was just like, I just felt like a really big mess.Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I'm the editorial director here at Understood. And as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I'm here today with Jenny Lorenzo. Jenny is a comedian and the co-host of the podcast Hyphenated, which is an English-language podcast about living in the hyphen that connects American and Latin culture. Welcome, Jenny. How are you?Jenny: Thank you for having me. I'm good.Laura: Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your show?Jenny: Yes. So, I am a Cuban American comedian from Miami, and I've been living in Los Angeles now for almost eight years. And I have a podcast with one of my comedy partners, Joanna Hausmann, who is a well-known Venezuelan American comedian. It's called Hyphenated, and it's about living in the hyphen and something I've been saying for a while to express my experience growing up in the States with a heavily Cuban family. So, you're kind of living between these two worlds.And so, Joanna had the same experiences growing up, and we still do. That doesn't change. So, we decided to make this podcast. And it's not just about cultures. It's about anything. Just being a multi-hyphenated creator and, you know, wearing multiple hats, all the hyphens, basically.Laura: Is ADHD ever included in those hyphens?Jenny: Absolutely. Joanna Hausmann also has ADHD, so it's really interesting recording this podcast with her because we go off on a lot of tangents and we have discussed ADHD before in some of our episodes.Laura: It's such a great show. I highly recommend that everyone listening to this show check out Jenny's show. OK, so let's dive into ADHD and see if we can stay on track, Jenny.Jenny: My fave topic.Laura: Let's start off by you telling me when you were diagnosed and what was happening at that time.Jenny: It was in the midst of the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, and I was recommended by a friend to go to this testing facility by this really wonderful psychiatrist. And I did it. I did it. I went in and we did the wackadoo three-hour exam in person. And then about a month and a half later, I got my results.Laura: Why did your friend suggest that you go get evaluated?Jenny: I just started wondering if I had it because a lot of my friends have it and they told me, "I think you have it." They're like, "This sounds like ADHD, girl. You got to get tested." And that's what I did. I've just always been a hot mess. It's just the reality. And people don't believe me when I say that because I am successful in my career and they're like, "There's no way." And I'm like, "Buddy, you do not know my life." I don't even know how I've gotten this far, to be honest with how scrambled my brain truly is.But again, the classic stuff, without delving too deep into like RSD and emotional dysregulation, all that stuff, it was like I was always forgetting things, I was always late to meetings, I had no concept of time, I was always locking myself out of my apartment, locking my keys in my car, running out of gas, just feeling like a race car with no brakes. And it was just like, and I was messy, and I couldn't keep a calendar and I would forget people existed. It was just so much, so much, that again, people would be shocked to hear that that's actually how my brain operates.Laura: Why do you think that people would say that they just can't believe it? Are you masking a lot of the symptoms or what's going on there?Jenny: If I'm masking, I didn't know I was masking. I think it's just because it presents differently in women. So, even women with ADHD don't know they have it because everyone thinks ADHD is a hyperactive, annoying little boys disorder. So, everyone's like, "I'm not that."But yeah, like I had a cousin who was like that, who had ADHD, and I'm like, "That's not me." And so, he was just like really badly behaved, and he was like a Tasmanian devil. And I'm like, that's what I thought ADHD was. It was like a mostly ill-behaved issue that little boys suffered from. And I think again, I think so many people think that if you have ADHD, that means you're lazy. And so, they see me as the opposite of lazy because I've accomplished so much. And they're like, "There's no way you have ADHD." That's really what people have told me. They don't believe I have it because of what I've accomplished.Laura: Does that ever seep into your own mentality and perspective of yourself? I think last time we chatted you mentioned feeling some imposter syndrome.Jenny: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if the imposter syndrome is entirely related to the, I mean, I'm sure it is, but it's also coming from like a low middle-class Cuban American family, being a woman. So, there's all these other added layers that give me the imposter syndrome of, you know, "I don't belong here, I'm not good enough.” But definitely the ADHD I always felt that I was dumb. For the lack of a better term, dumb is the word.I went to private school. You know, my mom put every penny she made into my education. And sometimes I would feel bad about that because I'm like, "I'm not that smart." Like, "I didn't really pay attention in class, and I failed math."But as a kid, though, again, no one raised a red flag about me in terms of my teachers because I was a straight-A student until the sixth grade, which is very common, because that's when math and science starts getting to become a real pain in the ass. And that's when I got my first C, and it was through middle school and high school that I was just a heaping mess. And the only reason why I had a B average in high school was that I was really good at winging it. I was really good at memorizing things 5 seconds before the test, and I would just spew everything on the page and then I would forget about it.That's why I feel dumb, because when I went to the University of Miami, I went to the university surrounded by so many really well-spoken, well-read white people from like New York and Vermont. And I felt just inadequate, like, "Oh, I don't have that vocabulary. I don't know those facts. I don't remember anything about history or science because I was just winging it. I was winging most of my high school education."Laura: That sounds exhausting.Jenny: Yes.Laura: You have a cousin who has ADHD. And I don't know what the age differences between you, but was that cousin, you know, diagnosed around the same time you were, you know, a younger kid and you flew under the radar and your cousin didn't?Jenny: He's eight years younger than me. So, no one ever thought, "Oh, Jenny has what he has," because it was so different. It was so, so different. I was a pretty well-tempered kid. I never threw tantrums. I wasn't, like, reckless. I didn't get in trouble in school. The only time I would get in trouble is when I would talk too much, which again, is a classic ADHD symptom in young girls. I mean, in hindsight now, my mom and I told her, I've told my mom, I'm like, you definitely have ADHD.She just kind of laughs about it. I think it's not that she doesn't believe me. I just think she doesn't understand it and she doesn't really care to fix it or anything at this point. She's just like, "This is who I am, I guess." But it's very apparent that she has it.Laura: I know that, you know, you're one person, but I'm just curious what your perception is of how ADHD is perceived in Hispanic culture.Jenny: Like I recently did an ADHD campaign with this company called Understood, and I made a couple of sketches, Instagram reels, of my Cuban abuela character, making fun of the younger granddaughter for having ADHD and the Cuban grandmas like "You kids are always coming up with different acronyms and different like ABCs for different things, and it's not real."I was very disheartened that a majority of my comments were agreeing with the grandma. They think giving things a title, when it comes to mental health specific — because they don't do that when it comes to like physical health issues, it's more like mental health issues — they just bunch it in with like woke culture for some reason. Like, "Oh, you, you kids and your wokeness and your need to label everything, and none of that exists. Just eat right." Like, I was getting a bunch of comments like that. And that's not just from like older people. It was from people my age, but ultimately, my audience is still predominantly Latino, so. I was very disheartened when I saw those comments. I was like, "Oh, we have a long way to go."Laura: Yeah, it sounds like a "just try harder" mentality.Jenny: Yeah. Or like, you guys just want to feel special and get a sticker for saying you have ADHD. Yeah, they were being dismissive of it.Laura: By the way, "ADHD Aha!" is Understood.Jenny: Oh, OK. OK. That makes sense. Love this for me. Just discovering this wonderful. OK.Laura: I love it. Forgetfulness. It happens. It's not a big deal.Jenny: I think what I struggle with the most is people not empathizing and being open and willing to learn about neurodivergence. And so, they're very set in their ways in thinking, "No, you're just rude" or "You're just a bad person because sometimes you're forgetful, because sometimes you take too long to answer a text, because sometimes you seem to be on a different realm when we hang out. Like you're not as focused, you're aloof."So, I found myself having to, in even recent years, like just this very year, I lost a friend because the stuff that they felt very negatively about regarding me had to do with my ADHD traits. And when it comes to mental health in general, I think we are all responsible for getting help and for working on ourselves. So, you know, now I'm medicated, I have an ADHD coach. I'm constantly researching tips and tricks and ways to make my life easier.A lot of it has worked. But ultimately, you know, you need people in your life who are understanding and are willing, because I do that. If I have a friend who gets diagnosed with bipolar disorder, I'm going to research bipolar disorder. I want to know about it so I can understand them better. I don't think that's a lot to ask from people, but, you know, some folks just don't want to. They just want to be upset and they want to see you in this negative light, and they refuse to believe that it's the ADHD and the executive dysfunction that is making you that way.Laura: And that this is willful behavior.Jenny: That it's willful behavior, and you're just an asshole.Laura: This friend that you had a falling out with, did you tell them that you have ADHD and that these were ADHD traits that they were struggling with?Jenny: Yup. And it didn't go well. She was a little ableist. And I actually suggested I'm like, "Look, if you want to, you can research ADHD, so you see what I'm talking..." And she cut me off and she was like, "I'm not doing that. I'm sorry."Laura: Oh, geez, I’m sorry to hear that, Jenny.Jenny: What's more disheartening is when it's another fellow person in your own community, in your career path, also be dismissive of your ADHD. So, sometimes I feel like we're kind of like seen as like the grime and the dirt of the I don't know what it is because people are like, "Oh, you have anxiety, oh you have this, oh! ADHD, you're a dick!" There was another friend who I also had an issue with, and again, these are not like my best friends, these are just people that I've met in recent years, and this one person who's known as like a mental health advocate was quite rude to me because I was again, as most ADHDers, we tend to overexplain — which is a trauma response, I learned that recently — and so, she was mad at me about something that didn't make sense and I was like, "Wait."And then I started like overexplaining in order for her to fully understand my brain and where it was coming from. And she kept interrupting me and was like, "Why are you talking about this? This has nothing to do with the topic." And I'm like, "I need you to please let me finish my train of thought or I'm going to forget what I was trying to say." And I always make sure to tell people, remember, I have ADHD. I have short-term memory issues like bad, poor working memory. She didn't care. She kept interrupting me, interrupting me. So, for me, it's like, "Are we just one giant joke to people? Do people not believe that our brains are like this?" I don't know.Laura: I'm so fascinated by what you just said about overexplaining. I never, ever thought about it that way. I do that all the time, Jenny. I like even with my husband a bit, you know, "Let me get this out, let me get this out. I got to get this out before I get interrupted," especially when my medication is starting to wear off at the end of the day, and, you know, that's compounded with the stress of the day. And now I got to get dinner ready for my kids and I got to get, you know, I got to set up their clothes for tomorrow and all of that.And I'm just like, I like need to blurt everything out and then go retreat and be alone and feel like a jerk, even though I know that that's that was just the way I needed to get my thoughts out.Jenny: I've read that that is a trauma response because people always saw the worst in us, so we had to like overexplain so that people don't think we're bad people.Laura: That's so wild.Jenny: I'm sure you had those experiences because again, it's by your own peers, by your teachers. My friends' parents thought I was a bad influence, even on the most straight edge — even at 35, I don't drink or do drugs — but I was seen as a bad influence to my friends by their parents because I was like extroverted and talkative and it stays with you as an adult. And so, because it keeps happening, it doesn't just stop at childhood, you like, your bosses.You know, when I was like a personal assistant, which now I know was a big mistake because I can't do any clerical work. Like, "What was I thinking?" I would do better stocking shelves at Bath and Body Works than like sitting at a desk and being in charge of calls and emails. And so, my bosses in these offices hated my guts. Like it was so bad I would have such anxiety because I knew they couldn't stand me because I just couldn't do things right. So, it just follows you your whole life in different scenarios.Laura: What's the hardest thing for you these days that's ADHD related? What do you struggle with the most?Jenny: What I struggle with the most is that, now that I'm the busiest I've ever been in my life, is staying on top of everything. But I will say the medication has helped me. I take it and I get myself in the zone and I'm able to tackle all my emails and texts and like I feel like I'm unstoppable.Laura: I don't think we really nailed down what your ADHD "aha" moment was. I know that it was in the pandemic, I know that you were noticing that a lot of your friends had ADHD, and I know you got evaluated. But was there something, some one specific thing or a cluster of things that happened that you were like, "All right, this is just too much now"?Jenny: I think it was more so that I had a really hard time writing, and my goal is to write for television, sell my own show and I just couldn't do it. I still struggle.Laura: Yeah. So, what would happen when you would try to write?Jenny: I just didn't want to do it. I didn't even try. I wouldn't even open the page. My brain would think of anything else to do. Clean the house, make animated GIFs. Like, I would just hyperfocus on something else entirely that wasn't writing. It's like my brain was just like, "Nope, we're not doing it. Nope, nope, nope. It's too hard." That, for me was like, everything was a challenge, like making sure I was always filling up my gas tank and getting my oil checked and organizing my files and responding to email.It was just like, I just felt like a really big mess. I was losing control. Along with my ADHD test, I also got tested for learning disabilities and I was diagnosed with dyscalculia.Laura: Dyscalculia for folks who are listening and don't know what it is as a learning disability in math and dyscalculia can make it tough to like telling time or keeping track of time, and that and ADHD can make that hard too. So, I imagine that like this is all compiling for you all the time, and like especially before you got diagnosed and knew really what was going on.Jenny: Yeah, it's wild how many things go hand in hand with ADHD. There's something else that I discovered yesterday. So, I also have PMDD. I'm a walking joke. I really am the alphabet.Laura: Can you explain what that is for folks who don't know what it is?Jenny: PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. So, it is a much more severe version of PMS. On average, people who have periods start showing signs of PMS maybe four days before their period, three days before their period. Aside from like the physical stuff, it's like emotional, irrational, forgetful, really low self-esteem, angry, like, irritable, or cry over anything. Well, I was like that for two weeks out of the month.Laura: Oh, dear.Jenny: I just felt like I was transforming into some hideous, terrible creature half the month.Laura: I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to laugh, but that sounds awful.Jenny: It is awful and it's hilarious because you could feel it. You can feel yourself transforming. I'm like, I'll snap, like, "Why am I so angry?" Like the Hulk, you know? And I would look at my calendar and I go, "Oh, oh, great."Laura: I mean, do you feel like since you got diagnosed with ADHD, that, because it helped I guess just having the awareness of that and like the cornucopia of other things that are going on, you're talking about like getting made fun of and getting it lumped in with woke culture and the alphabet soup and the labels and whatnot. But I find it helpful to be able to reference where certain behaviors are coming from.Jenny: Absolutely. I mean, again, this PMDD thing I just found out yesterday, so I feel like I'm constantly discovering new things.Laura: You're on fire, Jenny.Jenny: Yeah. You know, I just, I've always been extremely fascinated by psychology, and so I'm always learning about different disorders and stuff. But I will say, when I first got diagnosed, there was like I felt really depressed. I don't know what it was. I just felt like I was grieving. And now I'm feeling a lot better about it. And again, I don't ever want people to feel like I'm making excuses for myself.There's a difference between giving an excuse for your behavior and just giving the reason so that people can empathize and not be so hard on you, but also know that you're aware of it and that you're working on it. But this is why my brain does this. And so, again, I'm constantly learning like, "Oh my God, no wonder I had a hard time regulating my emotions, and no wonder I'm so sensitive to rejection."Laura: You used the word grieving before. Is that remembering what you went through and sad that it hadn't been recognized sooner? Or was it something else?Jenny: I think that's probably what it was. It was hard to figure it out when I was feeling that way, but that had to have been it. I think it was like, "Damn, if I knew sooner, I would have gotten help earlier." Or like, "What could I have accomplished even more had I not had this stunting me my whole life?" Because the reality is, again, I always told people who were like, "Oh my God, but you do so much, and you get everything done and blah blah blah." I'm like, "Yeah, but I leave a mess behind."So, I'm kind of like the Tasmanian devil. I just keep going and going and I'm doing the thing, but I'm leaving behind a catastrophe that I then have to waste hours cleaning up after myself, whether it's my physical space, my computer desktop. When I worked at BuzzFeed, those people were so annoyed with me because I was very disorganized. My files were all over the place, but I was one of their top producers and my videos would do really well and they'd go viral. No one would think when they see the finished product that in order to get to be a was a shit show.Laura: Do you really think that people view you as the mess that you're, you know, referring to yourself as? Or do you think that that might be you, you know, being hard on yourself?Jenny: Well, it was only this one specific department that was in charge of organizing my files, and I would be the messiest producer when it came to handing in my hard drives. So, that was it. Other than that, no. No one knew. No one knew that I was that messy except that one department. I mean, they were super sweet, but I can tell they were like, "Oh God, Jenny," I don't, they couldn't figure it out. Like, "How did you get this done?" My brain just has a really wackadoo way of doing things. And I feel like in a sense it is making it harder for myself, but it's the only way I know how. So?Laura: Well, Jenny Lorenzo, thank you so much for being here. The podcast is Hyphenated. I encourage everybody to check it out. It's been really a pleasure to talk with you, Jenny.Jenny: Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Laura, thank you so much. And you're a badass for doing what you do every day. You despite being neurodivergent because it's a superpower.Laura: Yes. Preach, Jenny.You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDAha@Understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine!Jessamine: Hi everyone.Laura: Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
Video: Dyscalculia, dyslexia, and genetics
Do you ever wonder if dyslexia is genetic? What about dyscalculia — is it hereditary? Why do some people have both?Hear from expert Daniel Ansari on whether there’s a dyslexia gene or a dyscalculia gene. Plus, learn why so many people who struggle with math also struggle with reading.
Understood Explains Season 3
IEPs: The 13 disability categories
Your child will need to fit into at least one disability category to qualify for an IEP. In this episode, we’ll explain how it all works. There are 13 disability categories listed in a federal law called the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or IDEA. And to get an IEP, or Individualized Education Program, your child will need to fit into at least one of them.These categories can have some hard-to-understand names, like “specific learning disabilities” or “other health impairments.” But on this episode of Understood Explains, host Juliana Urtubey will share what these categories mean and why they relate to IEPs. She’ll also share what to do if your child doesn’t qualify for any disability category, or if they qualify for more than one. For more resources, including a transcript formatted for easy skimming, visit the episode page on Understood.org.Timestamps[00:43] Why do IEPs have disability categories?[02:42] What are the 13 disability categories in IDEA?[07:21] Are disability categories the same in every state?[09:28] Can my child’s IEP include more than one disability?[10:32] What if my child doesn’t qualify for any disability category?[11:43] Key takeawaysRelated resources13 disability categories (explainer article with infographic)Parent training centers: A free resource in your stateTemplate to request an independent educational evaluation at public expense6 options for resolving an IEP dispute Episode transcriptJuliana: To get an IEP, kids need to meet the criteria for at least one disability category. But what if your child fits into more than one or doesn't fit into any? From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "Understood Explains IEPs." In this episode, we're going over the disability categories that schools use when deciding if a child qualifies for special education. My name is Juliana Urtubey and I'm the 2021 National Teacher of the Year. I'm also an expert in special education for multilingual learners, and I'm your host for this season of "Understood Explains," which is available in English y en español. OK, let's get started. [00:43] Why do IEPs have disability categories?Why do IEPs have disability categories? So, before we look at the specific categories, I want to explain why schools use them. The key word here is eligibility. Your child can't get an IEP, an Individualized Education Program, unless they meet the criteria for at least one disability category. This requirement comes from the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act or IDEA. This law has 13 disability categories, and as a parent, you'll encounter these categories when you go to your child's eligibility determination meeting. The team will run through the categories and say if your child qualifies for any of them. You may hear the term Disability Classification. And for many families, this is a very emotional part of the meeting. It can be hard to hear that your child has a disability, but you can always ask for a short break to collect your thoughts. We're going to go over each of the categories in a minute, but before we do that, there are a few big-picture things I want you to know about them. First, IDEA has 13 disability categories, but that doesn't mean it only covers 13 disabilities. The categories cover such a broad range that even the rarest condition could fit in somewhere. Second, having these categories helps weed out kids who are struggling for reasons other than a disability, like missing a lot of school or having trouble learning English as an additional language. There are other ways to support these students but to get an IEP, kids need to have a disability. The next big thing I want to mention is that some disability categories may come with more funding than other categories, but your child's disability category cannot be used to limit your child's services. Disability categories are gateways to special education, and your child just needs to fit through one of these gates to get access to whatever kind of specially designed instruction or services that they need. [02:42] What are the 13 disability categories in IDEA?So, what are the 13 disability categories in IDEA? I'm going to start with the four most common categories. And to help you understand how common they are, I want you to picture a pie that represents the millions of school-age kids with IEPs. And by far, the biggest slice of this pie is kids who have specific learning disabilities or SLDs. About a third of kids with IEPs qualify for special education because they have a learning disability. And some common examples include dyslexia, which some schools may call a reading disorder or a specific learning disability in reading. Dyscalculia is a math disability or math disorder. There's also dysgraphia and written expression disorder, where kids may have a lot of trouble getting their ideas down on paper. OK, so kids with learning disabilities make up about one-third of the special education pie. The second biggest slice is for speech or language impairments. Nearly one-fifth of kids with IEPs are in this category. This group includes a lot of kids who need speech therapy. This group also covers language disorders, which can make it hard to do things like learn new words or grammar rules or understand what people say. But I want to mention that language disorders can also fall under the learning disabilities category. So, if your child has a language disorder, choosing the category can be a bit of a toss-up. OK, so the special education pie that we're slicing up, it's already half full. And that's just with kids in two of the 13 categories, specific learning disabilities and speech or language impairments. Now, the third biggest slice is called other health impairments or OHI. And it covers about 1 in 6 kids with IEPs. And this is a really important category for neurodivergent families because it includes a lot of kids who struggle with attention. IDEA lists a bunch of examples that fit in the OHI category, including ADD and ADHD. It also mentions asthma, diabetes, epilepsy, lead poisoning, and sickle cell anemia. And these are just some of the examples that are mentioned in the law. So OHI is a really broad category. OK, moving on to the fourth biggest slice of the pie, and it's autism, which covers about 12% of kids with IEPs. This means about one in 8 or 9 kids with IEPs qualify for special education because they're autistic. Now, I want to pause here for a moment and point out that these four disability categories — learning disabilities, speech or language impairments, OHI, and autism — they make up about 80% of the pie. So what about the rest of the 13 categories? Well, there's intellectual disabilities, which is a pretty small slice, at 6% of the pie. So that's about 1 in 16 kids with IEPs. And some examples that might fit in this category are Down syndrome and fetal alcohol syndrome. Then, there's emotional disturbance, which is a bit smaller of a slice at 5% of the pie — or 1 in 20 kids with IEPs — and it covers things like anxiety and depression. And then there are seven other categories that are all tiny little slivers of the pie. There's orthopedic impairment. There's visual impairment, which includes blindness. There's hearing impairment, which includes deafness. And then there's deafblindness, which gets its own category. There's also traumatic brain injury. And there's multiple disabilities, which by the way isn't a category you'd use if you have, say, ADHD and dyslexia. Multiple disabilities is more likely to be used for something like intellectual disability and blindness, or any other combination that's likely to require a highly specialized approach. And last but not least, is developmental delays, which is the only category in IDEA that comes with an age limit. And I'm going to say more about this in a minute. But for now, I want to remind you that not everyone with a disability qualifies for an IEP. The disability needs to impact your education enough to require specially designed instruction. So here's an example. Let's say you have ADHD. Do you need specially designed instruction on things like how to get organized and stay on task? Or do you just need some classroom accommodations, like sitting near the teacher and away from distracting windows or hallways? If you don't need specialized instruction, the school will say you don't qualify for an IEP, but you can get a 504 plan. If you want to learn more about how kids qualify for IEPs. Check out the previous episode. And if you want to learn about the difference between IEPs and 504s, go back and listen to episode 2. [07:21] Are disability categories the same in every state?Are disability categories the same in every state? The short answer is no. Disability classification can happen a bit differently from state to state. Some of these differences are pretty minor.For example, some states use the phrase "disability category" and other states use the term "exceptionality." And some states have more than 13 categories because they do things like split speech or language impairment into two categories. Another difference is in how states handle developmental delays. States are not allowed to use this category after age nine, but some states have earlier cutoff dates. So, for example, I used to live in Nevada, where kids could be classified as having a developmental delay up through age five. And after they turned six, it was my team's job to determine if any other disability categories would fit their needs. Most often, these students would switch to specific learning disabilities. But in Arizona, which is where I live now, kids can keep receiving services under the category of developmental delay up until their 10th birthday.There's another big difference I want to mention, and it involves the way states classify kids with specific learning disabilities. Some states still evaluate kids for learning disabilities using what's called a discrepancy model. This is where you compare a child's IQ, or intellectual ability, to their academic achievement. So an example of a discrepancy would be a fifth grader whose IQ falls in the average range but is only reading at a second-grade level. But some states don't let schools use a discrepancy model. And that's because there can be cultural biases and other problems with IQ testing, including testing kids who speak a language other than English at home. So these are some of the ways eligibility criteria can differ from state to state. If you want to find out what your state's eligibility requirements are, ask your school's parent liaison or you can contact a Parent Training and Information center. These centers are free resources for families, and every state has at least one of them. I'll put a link in the show notes to help you find one that's closest to you. [09:28] Can my child’s IEP include more than one disability?Can my child's IEP include more than one disability? Yes. If your child has more than one disability, it's a good idea to list each one of them in the IEP. This can make it easier for the IEP to include all of the services and supports your child needs. The IEP team may need to rank the disabilities in terms of which one affects your child's education the most. But labels like "primary" and "secondary" cannot be used to limit what services your child gets. It's mainly a data collection tool, so states can get a broad idea of who's getting services for what. And if you're not sure which disability category should be listed as a primary one, think about what would be the most helpful reminder for teachers about your child's needs. The other thing I want to mention is that your child's primary disability category can change as they get older. One example is young kids who get an IEP for speech or language impairment, and then they shift to a specific learning disability, as are challenges with reading and spelling become clear over time. [10:32] What if my child doesn’t qualify for any disability category?What if my child doesn't qualify for any disability category? So, you might hear this after your child's initial evaluation. Or if your child already has an IEP, there needs to be a reevaluation at least once every three years. And part of the reason is to see if your child doesn't need specialized instruction anymore. If the school says your child doesn't meet the criteria for any of the disability categories, there are few things you can do. The first thing is you can go back and look at the evaluation report. Was the school looking at the right trouble spots? Maybe the team needs to do more testing in more areas. You can also request something called an Independent Educational Evaluation or IEE. This is done by someone who doesn't work for the school. You'll most likely have to pay for it, but in some cases the school may be required to cover the cost. Understood has a good template to help you write this kind of request. I'll include a link in the show notes. The other thing you can do is learn about dispute resolution options. We have a whole episode on this later this season, but we'll link to an article here to help you get started. [11:43] Key takeawaysOk, so we've covered a lot of territory in this episode. So before we go, let's sum up what we've learned with a few key takeaways. IDEA has 13 disability categories, but that doesn't mean it only covers 13 disabilities. Your child's disability category is a gateway to special education. It doesn't limit what kind of services your child can receive. Your child's IEP can include more than one disability and the primary category can change over time. All right, that's it for this episode of "Understood Explains." Next time, we're talking about key terms in legal rights that every parent should know if their child qualifies for an IEP. You've been listening to "Understood Explains IEPs." This season was developed in partnership with UnidosUS, which is the nation's largest Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization. Gracias, Unidos! If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we've mentioned in the episode. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.CreditsUnderstood Explains IEPs was produced by Julie Rawe and Cody Nelson, with editing support by Daniella Tello-Garzon. Video was produced by Calvin Knie and Christoph Manuel, with support from Denver Milord.Mixing and music by Justin D. Wright.Ilana Millner was our production director. Margie DeSantis provided editorial support, and Whitney Reynolds was our web producer. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer.Special thanks to the team of expert advisors who helped shape this season: Shivohn Garcia, Claudia Rinaldi, and Julian Saavedra.
Understanding dyscalculia in your child
Many people know about dyslexia, but dyscalculia is another common learning difference. Dyscalculia makes it hard to do math and everyday tasks that involve math. Kids who have it may need extra help at school and at home.You may not yet know if your child has dyscalculia. But the more you know about the challenges, the better able you’ll be to support your child. With the right help, kids who have trouble with math can improve their skills.This overview can answer many of your basic questions, and also lead you to more in-depth information. If you think your child has dyscalculia, here are steps you can take. And if you recently were told that your child has dyscalculia, learn what to do next.Signs to look forDyscalculia can cause different types of math challenges. A common one is trouble with a set of skills called number sense. But not all kids show the same signs, and the signs can look different at different ages. Here are some examples:PreschoolHas trouble learning to count and skips over numbers long after other preschoolers can remember numbers in the right orderStruggles to recognize patterns, like smallest to largest or tallest to shortestHas trouble recognizing number symbols (knowing that “7” means seven)Doesn’t seem to get the idea of counting (maybe when you ask for five blocks, your child just hands you an armful)See more signs of dyscalculia in preschool.Grade schoolHas a hard time learning and recalling basic math facts, like 2 + 4 = 6Struggles to identify +, ‒, and other signs, and to use them correctlyStill uses fingers to count instead of using more advanced strategies, like mental mathStruggles to understand words related to math, such as greater than and less thanSee more signs of dyscalculia in grade school.Middle schoolHas a hard time understanding place valueHas trouble writing numerals clearly or putting them in the correct columnHas trouble with fractions and with measuring things, like ingredients in a simple recipeStruggles to keep score in sports gamesSee more signs of dyscalculia in middle school.High schoolHas trouble using math concepts with money, including estimating the total cost, making exact change, and figuring out a tipHas difficulty grasping information shown on charts or graphsHas difficulty measuring things like ingredients in a simple recipe or liquids in a bottleHas a hard time finding different approaches to the same math problemSee other ways dyscalculia looks in high school. Dive deeperLearn how dyscalculia can affect everyday skills.See a day in the life of a child with dyscalculia.Read expert advice on how to help kids with tricky math homework. Finding out if your child has dyscalculiaThe only way to know if your child has dyscalculia is through an evaluation. Your child’s school can do one for free. They can also be done privately.The evaluator will use a set of tests that are just for dyscalculia, and will also look at other areas of learning. That way you’ll know exactly where your child is struggling. You’ll also find out about your child’s strengths. The school can use those strengths to help your child improve.You might hear different terms, depending on whether your child has a school evaluation or a private one. Schools don’t “diagnose” conditions. They “identify” learning disabilities. So you might hear that your child has a learning disability in math. You might also hear that your child has dyscalculia.A psychologist will look for other things that might be getting in the way of your child’s learning. These include ADHD and mental health issues, which are both fairly common in kids with learning challenges.Get more information on the evaluation process.Dive deeperLearn about math anxiety vs. dyscalculia.Explore games, tools, and tips to help with math.See how kids can get tripped up by a math problem.How professionals can help with dyscalculiaThere are no medical treatments for dyscalculia. There also aren’t special teaching programs like there are for dyslexia.But special education teachers have methods they can use to help kids understand math. There’s also an approach that can help kids learn math by using different senses. It’s called multisensory instruction. Dive deeperSee examples of supports or accommodations schools might use.Learn about technology to help kids with math.Download free graphic organizers to help your child with math.How you can help your child with dyscalculiaThere are many ways you can help, from working with your child’s teacher to finding free online tools for teaching math.Check out a bunch of ways to help your child with math. That includes board games that build math skills and around-the-house items to help with math.Keep in mind that kids who struggle in school may feel “dumb” or embarrassed. It’s important to let your child know that everyone struggles with something, including you.Learn ways to boost your child’s self-esteem.Discover your child’s strengths.Find ways to help your child develop a “growth mindset” and believe that skills can improve. And get tips for talking to your child about learning and thinking differences. Being open about challenges can show your child that it’s OK to have them.
In It
What is neurodiversity? An interview with the host of “The Neurodiversity Podcast”
The term “neurodiversity” seems to be everywhere right now. But what exactly does it mean? And how does it apply to kids who learn and think differently? The term “neurodiversity” seems to be everywhere right now — in the news, the workplace, and even in your podcasts. But what exactly does it mean?In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra talk with Emily Kircher-Morris, counselor, author, and host of The Neurodiversity Podcast. Emily has a unique perspective on neurodiversity: She’s a neurodivergent parent to twice-exceptional kids. Listen in to hear Emily talk about what neurodiversity means, how it applies to kids who learn and think differently, and why the language we use matters. Related resources What is neurodiversity?All about twice-exceptional students The Neurodiversity PodcastTeaching Twice-Exceptional Learners in Today’s ClassroomsRaising Twice-Exceptional ChildrenEpisode transcript Amanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership and expertise for Understood.org. I'm a parent to kids who learn differently, and I'm a neurodiverse human.Gretchen: Hi, I'm Gretchen. I'm an editor at Understood. I'm also a former classroom teacher and a mom of two. And this is "In It.""In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On the show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We offer perspective, advice, and stories from and for people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other learning differences.Amanda, I've heard your introduction a bunch of times, but I've never heard you introduce yourself as a neurodiverse human. That's a new one.Amanda: Yeah. I thought it was a good segue into our conversation today about neurodiversity because the term "neurodiversity" seems to be everywhere right now. It's in the news. It's in the business world. But we really wanted to explore what it means.And for the answer to this question and more questions, we thought it would be best to talk with my friend Emily Kircher-Morris, who's the host of "The Neurodiversity Podcast." She's also a fellow author, and her book "Teaching Twice-Exceptional Learners in Today's Classroom" came out in August.Gretchen: Oh, hooray!Amanda: Right. And Gretchen, like us, Emily has been a teacher. She's taught in gifted classrooms. She's been a school counselor. And these days, she lives in Missouri. She has a private practice as a licensed professional counselor, and she specializes in helping gifted and twice-exceptional kids.Gretchen: Emily, welcome. I'm so happy to meet you.Emily: Yes, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.Gretchen: And Amanda just gave a great introduction of you, but it's my first time meeting you, so why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself?Emily: Well, I am also a neurodiverse individual, which is part of why I have the passion that I do for this field. I have three kids. The older two are identified as twice exceptional, and my littlest is only in first grade, but, you know, we'll see how that all goes. I think we can probably make some good predictions, but, you know, this is my life between the podcast and my clinical mental health practice and just kind of advocating and supporting neurodivergent and twice-exceptional people.Amanda: So, basically, what you're saying is you live this the same way the rest of us do. Emily: I do. And, and you know, it's interesting, you know, how people, like, refer to parenting experts or whatever, and I'm going, "Oh, please." I talk about it a lot, and I read about it a lot, and I'm very good at brainstorming solutions, but I do not have it all figured out. We're all in this together. We're all trying to figure it out as we go. And if we can collaborate and work together on it, then that's just best for everyone.Amanda: And we thought who better to collaborate with on an episode about neurodiversity than the host of "The Neurodiversity Podcast." Right? I mean, it's literally in the name of what you do.Emily: It's literally in the name.Gretchen: Yeah. So speaking of that name, how would you actually define neurodiversity?Emily: So. Neurodiversity really is a concept that allows for a lot of different disorders or diagnoses that people have and recognizes that it's not necessarily always a deficit.A neurodivergent person has brain wiring that is atypical compared to the normative population, but that doesn't mean that they are dysfunctional or broken. So when we talk about autism or ADHD, these are things that are innate, that are in place since a person is born; they are not acquired. And there's nothing that you're going to do, like when I have kids come into my counseling practice, who are ADHD'ers or are autistic, like I'm not teaching them how to not have ADHD. Like I'm not, I'm not going to get them to not be autistic. Like that's just part of who they are. And neurodiversity really recognizes that, just like biodiversity in the natural world, having variation is good for the world, and it just kind of normalizes some of that while recognizing that these different neurotypes might operate in the world a little bit differently, but that doesn't mean that it's bad.Gretchen: Emily, that's such a beautiful way to explain the need for this term. And I'm wondering if you can also get into a little bit about what specifically falls under the term "neurodiverse."Emily: So we're talking about, like I mentioned, ADHD; I mentioned autism. We're talking about dyslexia, dyscalculia. Um, some people would put diagnoses like schizophrenia or bipolar or OCD in that category. Most people would not put diagnoses like anxiety, like generalized anxiety or, um, you know, major depressive disorder, but there's kind of like, in my mind, I visualize this Venn diagram where we have neurodivergent diagnoses and then we have mental health diagnoses, but there's definitely some overlap, like OCD, to me, I'm not quite sure where that should really fall.Amanda: I would say neurodiversity. I actually have OCD. So, to me, it feels like it.Emily: Well, it's, it's interesting because there's not necessarily an agreed-upon definition of what neurodiversity is or is not because I also, I agree with you on that, Amanda. But I also think there are some instances where, if the premise is that neurodiversity is something that somebody is born with, OCD is not always something that somebody is born with. It's like, depending on who you're talking to, you're getting different parameters for where things fall. And so, that's kind of why I say, I think it kind of straddles a little bit, depending on the individual.And I would also say that for example, um, I would put cognitive diversity or cognitive giftedness in the category of neurodiversity, and I think that's one that doesn't get recognized quite often. And I would also say twice-exceptional individuals, who are gifted and have another one of those diagnoses or a mental health diagnosis, if they need additional supports, like, they are also then neurodivergent.It's very broad and ambiguous is my point, but why I like the term. I do talk about my clients both as a group but also individually when I'm talking to their parents, I use the term "neurodiverse" as a way to explain and normalize their experiences, you know, because I feel like what happens is sometimes we fall into this, like, "Oh, well, they're just a little quirky." And I think more than anything, what that does is it minimizes a person's struggles. It disallows them access to accommodations. It enhances the stigma that surrounds those diagnoses.And I'm very much a believer that let's just call something what it is. And if we don't know what it is, there are kids, especially in my practice, who maybe we can tell are neurodivergent, like, we just know, but is it ADHD? Is it autism? Like, what exactly is going on? It can be very difficult to tease out. Do we need a full psychological evaluation? Do we need it for an IEP or a 504? Do we need medication? If we don't need any of those things, is it useful just for the person to have a label? Sometimes that's empowering for people to know what to call something. But sometimes we can just go, you know, they're neurodivergent, their brain works differently, and we don't necessarily have to drill down much further than that. It can be kind of an umbrella term.Amanda: That's super helpful. And also, as I'm listening to you say that, I had this moment because I realized when I talk about myself now, I talk about being neurodivergent. Diagnoses, labels, how that impacts me. But when I talk about who I used to be when I was a kid, I often will say I was a quirky kid. And I never thought about the fact that, that's actually, like, what I'm doing there is I'm minimizing who I was. Right?Emily: And you were an unidentified neurodivergent learner.Amanda: I was an unidentified neurodivergent learner. I wasn't just a quirky kid. There was actually something bigger there. I need to stop saying that. I need to stop saying I was a quirky kid.Emily: You know, I also want to just address the fact, though, that there are a lot of folks who like to talk about neurodiversity as a superpower. And I think that is also kind of like talking about like being a quirky kid. I think it diminishes the needs that go along with it.And there is nobody who is a part and really active in the neurodiversity movement who denies that being neurodivergent can be a disability. And what does that really mean? You know, Amanda, it's like, you know, I have glasses as well. It's like, I can see as long as I have the accommodation of my glasses. If you take away my glasses, I can't see anything.Amanda: Right.Emily: So I am then disabled. I'm unable to function in the world as others do. And so if I am an ADHD'er and I need certain accommodations in order to be able to focus, or if I have certain sensory processing needs, I can still fulfill my potential. I can still live my life as long as those accommodations are put in place. But if the world refuses to put those accommodations in place, then I am disabled.Amanda: And that's the social model. Like that's something that you and I talk about, know about, and I think I'm just going to like, take a pause and, you know, just for the listeners who don't —Gretchen: Good idea, maybe for me too.Amanda: The social model of disability is speaking about how you interact with the environment, and that the environment is what can cause you to feel more or less disabled. And it's not that you are inherently disabled, right? It's how the environment interacts with whatever differences or, you know, challenges that you have. You know, like, if we didn't have to read, the glasses wouldn't matter, right? If we didn't have to see each other, the glasses wouldn't matter. I just think it's important to note that that's sort of where that social model comes in is, is it's different than a medical model that says there's something inherently wrong with a person, right? Emily: And the neurodiversity movement, and neurodiversity just in general, lives in the world of the social model of disability.Gretchen: Emily, I've noticed you've been talking about people who may have ADHD as ADHD'ers, right? So that, I'm noticing, is different than some other language that I've heard where it's person first, and then the difference. And the way that you've been speaking sounds to me like the neurodivergent first. Can you explain that?Emily: Absolutely. I am an ADHD'er; I have a diagnosis of ADHD. I was given that diagnosis, but without the ADHD, I am not who I am. I am no longer Emily. There is just so much of that that is inherent because it is part of my neurological wiring, and neurodivergent communities were not the first to embrace this.The Deaf community — they use identity-first language: "I am a Deaf person." I believe that blind and visually impaired people also use identity-first language, because you can't separate it from how they interact with the world and how they see themselves. Autistic individuals. I am autistic. I'm not a person with autism.It's not like you can just like, get rid of that pesky autism, and then everything's just going to, you know, work OK. And we don't want to, we don't want to get rid of those things. Like, the reason I have the ideas that I have, the reason I can have 12,000 million things going on all at once is because the way my brain works, and if my brain didn't work that way, I wouldn't be an ADHD'er, but I also wouldn't be me.And there's an ownership to that, right? Like, this is who I am. I'm not perfect. I have strengths, I have struggles, but don't try to fix me because of the way my brain is wired. Somebody who is dyslexic, for example, what are the skills and the compensatory strategies that they build, and how does that influence their personality and how they interact with the world and how they see themselves? Like, you can't extricate that.Amanda: That makes sense. I want to actually circle back to something because we touched on it a little bit — is the "twice exceptional" thing. Emily and I both are twice exceptional, which is such a strange phrase. Sometimes you hear it as 2e; I'd love for you to talk about what that means.Emily: Yeah. So maybe I'll just go back and share a little bit about my story. So when I was growing up, my mom was a special educator in the school district where I attended school. And thank goodness, because I was a hot mess. And so she was on it, but she insisted, you know, when I was in second grade, that I was screened for the gifted program. She's like, this is not typical development, you know, with the things that I was doing and the questions I was asking and how I was learning. And so. Yeah, the district tested me and I was placed in the gifted ed program. But then by the time I was in fifth grade, I was really struggling. I mean, I have teachers who tell the story about having to dump out my desk to find my work. And we could get in a whole lot of different conversations about my experiences there, but, but the bottom line is I was really struggling.And so my mom went and found a neurologist. This was at a time that ADHD was still pretty new. It was very rarely diagnosed in girls. And I had teachers who would say, "Well, we don't think she should be allowed to go to her gifted education program because she's not getting her work turned in. I'm like, "Well, you're asking me to write spelling words five times each and I already know how to spell those words." So I don't want to do that. And that was at a time that we didn't even have the terminology "twice exceptional." So, "twice exceptional" means gifted and another diagnosis. So when I started out as a teacher, I started in just the general education classroom. As far as executive functioning goes, that was a really difficult environment for me.And so I quickly moved and got a master's degree in education with gifted education certification. And I've taught at both the elementary and the middle school levels in gifted ed programs. But when I got that master's degree, we didn't even talk about the term "twice exceptional." So this is like within the last 15 years that people have even really started to understand that somebody can have cognitive giftedness and have another diagnosis, and that they can still deserve and need services both for their cognitive ability to challenge them, but also special education services at the same time. And this is like blowing people's minds in the education world. Cause they just don't know where these kids fit. And when I was taught in the gifted ed classrooms, like that's where, like I found the kids who I connected with and they were of course the twice-exceptional kids, and I wanted to do more to support them.So I went back and got a second master's, in counseling and family therapy. And that's where I specialize with those kids. My mission is to protect those kids from some of the experiences I had as a kid, because it really sucked growing up in a world that didn't understand twice exceptionality.Amanda: Absolutely. You know, there's nothing quite like knowing there are things that you are brilliant at doing, and there are things that you are falling down at doing, and not being able to know why they both happen at the same time. There are some states now that look at gifted education as special education. And I think those are states that are doing it right, right? Because they're looking at the fact that it's specialized instruction, no matter why you need that specialized instruction.Going back to the whole parenting experts thing. I do think that there's an expectation sometimes when you have a neurodiverse child, when you have neurodivergence in your home, when you have twice exceptionality, there's this expectation that you've got to get it right as a parent; that you know how to do this. And I am here to tell you, you have no idea. Like, I have no idea how to do this.Emily: It changes day to day.Amanda: It does. And I'm not automatically a better, more prepared parent because of the kids I have. I just think it's important for parents to know that just because you have a child who is neurodivergent, you have a child who's twice exceptional, it doesn't mean you have to be better at parenting than anybody. You're just doing your best, right?Emily: You're parenting your child.Gretchen: I like that. But I still will go to you for advice, Amanda.Amanda: Well, you know, now you know Emily, so there we go.Emily: There's not so much. I always feel like, people will say, "Well, what should I do?"And it's not so much advice, but it's like, well, what have you tried? What other options are there? And like, let's just brainstorm it together. I might have more ideas just because I do this every day and brainstorm with people. And I've seen things that work for other families, but I am not the expert on your child.You're going to know what might work for your personality and their personality for the specific thing that's going on. But sometimes you've just got to step back for a minute and kind of figure out, "What could I do differently? This isn't working. I need to do something different. What is that different thing?"Amanda: Well, if you just recognize that you need to do something different is a big step too. Emily: You know, one thing I would, I would say to that, Amanda — and this is another one of my soapboxes that I like to get on, especially when it comes to neurodiversity and parenting neurodivergent kids — is that so many of us were raised with very behaviorally based interventions, meaning disciplines, as far as rewards, punishments, those sorts of consequences.You will not bribe your neurodivergent child into executive functioning. Like, that's just not how it works. And so taking things away from them or promising them whatever if they are able to do X, Y, and Z, it doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't teach the lagging skill. You might get some short-term benefit, but we have got to move away from behavioral solutions for neurological wiring difficulties.I think we do so much damage to kids by giving them consequences for things that really — not that they can't control, but they don't know how to control.Amanda: That's a soapbox I will stand on with you anytime. Well, Emily, thank you so much for talking to us today. Gretchen: So great to meet you and talk with you today.Emily: Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it.Gretchen: Share it with the parents you know.Amanda: Share it with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently. Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need.Gretchen: Go to u.org/init to share your thoughts and also to find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash "in it." You can also email us at InIt@understood.org.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin, with special help this week from Anna Mazarakis. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry our production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
4 ways dyscalculia can affect social skills
Dyscalculia makes math hard, but it can impact more than just schoolwork. Here are four social challenges people with dyscalculia might face — and ways to help. 1. Avoiding popular games The dyscalculia link: Many games like Uno and Bingo use math skills and strategies. That can be hard for people with dyscalculia, so they may avoid playing altogether. How you can help: Practice playing games in a low-stress environment. That can help boost confidence to join in on the fun another time. 2. Having low self-esteem The dyscalculia link: When people struggle with math over and over, it can make them think they’ll struggle with other things, too. They may worry about trying to make new friends or trying new activities.How you can help: Encourage people to try group activities that build on their strengths. For example, kids and adults who like to run can see if there’s a track and field club in their area. 3. Getting teased The dyscalculia link: Some people may say mean things if they see someone having trouble with everyday skills that seem simple — things like telling time and knowing left from right.How you can help: Learn about the difference between teasing and bullying. Practice ways to respond and shut down negative comments. And find out what to do if you suspect bullying at school.4. Being afraid to drive or go new placesThe dyscalculia link: People with dyscalculia often have trouble navigating and judging distance and speed. This can lead to a lot of anxiety on the road. How you can help: Find times and places to practice with few other cars on the road. If possible, hire a driving instructor who has experience teaching students who learn and think differently.Learn more: See ways dyscalculia can affect a child’s daily life.
ADHD Aha!
From ADHD perfectionism to empathy and grace (Livingston’s story)
Livingston Steele was diagnosed with ADHD about a year into working at Understood.org. His experience and work have given him immense empathy for people with ADHD.It’s the hair twirling that always gives it away. After silently coping for years, Livingston Steele can spot the signs of ADHD, and the anxiety it can cause. He’d been working here at Understood.org for about a year when he was officially diagnosed.Livingston talks about his perfectionism and what led him to get evaluated for ADHD. He also shares how ADHD helped him build empathy for his brothers (who also have ADHD), and for himself.Related resourcesADHD and perfectionismIs ADHD hereditary?ADHD and anxietyEpisode transcriptLivingston: One of the reasons why I did get diagnosed is I learned that both my brothers do have ADHD. So, once I got diagnosed, we got even closer together because I understand them a lot more. And as an older brother, I had a lot more grace towards them because I wasn't being such a perfectionist or wanting everything done and doing it my way. I also was learning how they work as well and accommodating them. Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network. This is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I'm the editorial director here at Understood. And as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I am here today with Livingston Steele, my colleague, my buddy, social media manager here at Understood.org. Hi Livingston, how are you? Livingston: Hi Laura. Thank you for having me. Laura: This is so nice to now be spending time just talking with you. Folks who are listening or watching don't know, but we've had a very busy day and Understood today. And so, now we get to just sit back and have a nice conversation. So this will be great. Livingston: Definitely, definitely. Laura: I just want to ask, because we're in this moment together, is it hard for you to focus at the end of the day? Livingston: It's hard for me to focus any part of the day. Laura: I'm sorry I'm laughing! What a great answer. Livingston: Yeah, me particularly, I get a lot of my energy later in the day. So, sometimes I'll get a burst of energy to focus or to work at like four. Whereas, you know, that's probably the wrap of the day. So, sometimes I would have to like, stay until like six or so, not because I'm prone to overdo work, but that is when like, sometimes my biggest focus-time is between like two and four. Laura: Wow! So, this is perfect timing for you. I'm so mesmerized by that because, listeners watchers, we are recording this at 3:25 p.m. at this moment, which is why I'm feeling drained because that's usually my "I'm out of here" kind of moment. Like I'm just overwhelmed from the day. So, I'm always interested to know when people's like, sweet spots for focus are. I'm glad we're in yours. I'm going to do my best to be here and present with you. Livingston, you were diagnosed recently. After you started working here, right? Livingston: Yes. So, I got diagnosed after a year of being here. So I got diagnosed in May of 2022. Laura: Did working here have anything to do with your getting diagnosed? Livingston: It was one of the main reasons why I decided to get diagnosed. Before working here, I had very little understanding of ADHD or learning and thinking differences and how it affects different types of people. So, as I was working here at Understood and social media — and there's so much we have to learn to be able to run those channels — I started to learn a lot of things I was resonating with. A lot of symptoms, a lot of challenges. And once I got diagnosed, there was like an ease, because now I realize that I was always trying to make myself work harder or always pushing myself to do more than others. And I realized there was a challenge that I never really prepared for. Laura: What were some of the things that you were noticing — and for instance, our content from working at Understood — what specific ADHD challenges spoke to you?Livingston: So, one of the ones that really stuck out to me coincidentally had to do with you, when you talked about your story and talking about ADHD and perfectionism.Laura: Oh my God! I'm going to cry. I actually didn't know that. I know we pre-interviewed, but I didn't realize that. Oh, wow. OK, keep going. Livingston: So, reading your story and realizing that you were a student that had straight A's and did very well in school and no one would see any type of challenges that you may have. I resonated with that, because I was a decent kid in school when it came to working. But a lot of people didn't see the extra work that I was putting in to even and just be able to — I wouldn't say compete — but compete. Being able to be considered a good student or having straight A's. What it was for one student was completely different from me. You just didn't see the extra work or the extra time or me getting up a couple of hours early to do certain things to be able to be on that same level. Laura: So, you remember that looking back growing up, that you would use those kinds of like strategies to cope and to compensate and like working extra long hours. Do you do that at work as well? Livingston: Yeah, I did that at work. I did at any time I was doing any type of task. You know, something that I realized led to a lot of burnout quickly. And I just was always a burnt-out person and not realizing that, "Oh, I'm not always working hard." It was because of like, the way I was working and the steps that I wasn't taking to make it easier for myself due to my diagnosis. Laura: I have to tell you Livingston, having worked with you, you don't seem like a burnt-out person. And that doesn't mean, I'm not trying to invalidate how you feel and what your experience is. But you seem so high energy and always on it, and sharp and focused all the time. Which is why, you know, I actually didn't know that you had ADHD until very recently. Do you feel like you're masking that? What's going on there? Livingston: Absolutely. I didn't even understand the term of masking until coming here and then seeing it within myself. Seeing it with other colleagues that have ADHD and now being able to acknowledge it in other people. Yeah, I was masking the majority of my life where everything looked great on the outside, but inside I was struggling. And I think that ties back to perfectionism. Like, making sure that no one can see an issue or a flaw within yourself. But a step further, having a diagnosis or having ADHD, you don't want to be considered less than others. Laura: Do you share openly here at Understood about your ADHD? Or is this relatively new, having this conversation, say, with me or with others? Livingston: I thought I did. I thought I did openly kind of explain to other people, particularly that I'm in a lot of the TikToks and Instagram posts that has to talk about ADHD. Laura: As a plug for our TikTok channel. Everybody check it out. Livingston: Definitely follow our TikTok and Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, everything. Yeah, we want to make it more authentic. So, a lot of us who are in those TikTok and Instagram do have a learning and thinking difference that we can relate to. Laura: Yeah, I mean, I knew that. I just, I know the last time that we chatted, you've talked about being afraid of oversharing, so it wasn't necessarily about disclosing, but was that related to something else? Livingston: Like everyone else, I can remember a time where I've probably overshared or shouldn't have given that much information. Whether it's in a friend's setting, whether it's at work, whether in any aspect. And you don't want to get on anybody's nerves, you don't want to rub anybody the wrong way or think about how people may look at you. So, it all ties back to masking your diagnosis, masking your symptoms. Laura: How do you cope — or what happens if you were, say, at a gathering or in a work setting and you feel like you overshared — what happens after that? Livingston: So, what you won't be able to see on the outside is the amount of anxiety that's riddling me on the inside. And that even sometimes, I don't even have to speak to have that said anxiety. But like, oversharing or if I feel like I'm oversharing may lead to even more anxiety, which causes social anxiety, which causes me to kind of shut down. Laura: I think that our perception as people with ADHD is that we're always oversharing. And I bet that like 95% of the time it might not even be the case. I think the anxiety that comes with it is just so suffocating. The ruminating the lane in bed, can't fall asleep, like, replaying all of the conversations in your head. Livingston: And also giving more of yourself that you're afraid to show. Laura: Yeah. Can you say more about that? I want to dig into why. Livingston: That may be either a personal thing or something I've just realized with people in general. I'm not sure if it's only ADHD that's connecting too. But like the anxiety of being able to show yourself authentically or full of yourself the things that you're interested in, things that you may be thinking of, or your thoughts. You may have thoughts at work that, "Oh, this could improve this, but if I overshare and the boss doesn't like it, or doesn't care or dismisses me." Not necessarily my particular thoughts, but just in general, that's more so where that can potentially be tied to. Laura: So, in the spirit of authenticity, I'm actually going to say right now that like, I get that feeling of looking back and worrying and feeling anxious about what I did or didn't do, not just with oversharing, but with almost everything that I do that I feel could be ADHD-related. In this very moment, Livingston, I'm worried that I'm not focusing well enough. That I'm just like I mentioned earlier in the call, that it's towards the end of the day. Am I doing this conversation justice? Right? Like, am I as present as I need to be? And I know that I'm going to go home and think about that over and over again. And I'm going to try not to, because I'm going to remember this conversation and remember that we don't need to use our precious energy for that. But it's hard, you know, because when you're conscious of it... Livingston: It makes it a little bit hard, and that's why when you get diagnosed — not saying it makes it harder — it's like once you acknowledge it, you're like, "Why do I keep doing this?" Which makes you also realize this is an ongoing thing. There's no cure for ADHD, but the acknowledgment helps us to be able to cope better and give ourselves grace and give other people grace, with ADHD. You may not have it, but understanding this aspect of things. If somebody with ADHD is twirling their hair silently, you would know not to push them too much because they may be in a cycle of getting through their anxiety or trying to get through their thoughts or overthinking and trying to narrow certain things down. Laura: Do you do that, do you twirl your hair?Livingston: I do. I definitely twirl mine. When my hair was out, I twirled my hair when I'm either anxious or overthinking. Laura: So, do you wish that you had been diagnosed earlier? Livingston: If I was diagnosed earlier, I would have been more aware of my symptoms, how they affect me and like, how I could move through life not masking my symptoms, but understanding my symptoms and understanding myself better. I don't know. That's a good question because, I would say, when I was growing up, there were resources for ADHD, but not as it is today. One of the reasons why I did get diagnosed is I learned that both my brothers do have ADHD. They both were diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age. And I also learned that having ADHD can also be hereditary. So, I noticed a lot of symptoms that we had and shared, but that they were diagnosed and my youngest brother was getting a lot more like, help in the sense of how to cope with his challenges and how to move in everyday life, whereas I wasn't diagnosed at all. So, I was just doing regular coping methods which weren't working for me. So, once I got diagnosed, we got even closer together because I understand them a lot more. And as an older brother, I had a lot more grace towards them because I wasn't being such a perfectionist or wanting everything done and doing it my way. I also was learning how they work as well, and accommodating them. Laura: Why do you think that they were diagnosed with ADHD as kids and you weren't? Livingston: I was doing well in school. I was getting straight A's. I was playing sports. I was doing a lot of different things in middle school into high school. But when I look back at it, I was spending a lot of time doing my work, that people did not see. And I just thought it was just me as a person, I just took too long or I liked to wait until the last minute. But that wasn't it. It was, it took me a while to be able to structure certain things out and then finish it. Laura: Were your brothers' symptoms, were they the more, I guess more noticeable type symptoms like hyperactivity?Livingston: So, one of my brothers had more of a hyperactivity, so his was more noticeable. And then my younger brother was more inattentive like mine. It was more so his anxiety that gave it away. So then, I didn't show my anxiety. It was more inward. So, he was more vocal about it than I was. I just thought, you know, "I'll get over it." He was more vocal about having anxiety as a kid and seeking help, which is why he got help. And I just thought nothing was wrong with me. I just needed to buckle down and just make things happen. Laura: I think that's just so interesting. Three brothers, all with ADHD, that presents differently. Livingston: It's an interesting household. I would say after I got diagnosed, there was just a lot more sympathy to both of my brothers and vice versa, because we realized now that we understand, like our different types of symptoms, how we can help each other. And how you can also be there for each other, because having that type of support is very beneficial. Laura: You've mentioned your mom in the pre-interview. What's her take on all of this? Livingston: I mean, she doesn't really like, dwell on it. I told her I got diagnosed and she was like, "Oh, right that's good for you." I mean, in her eyes it's like, "Well, you're of age. You've been doing well for yourself so if that helps you do better, great." Laura: Yeah, good for you. She's like, "I've paid my dues as a mom. Deal with it on your own." Livingston: But she was very supportive. She'd been supportive of us in that aspect. Talk about symptoms and how it affects us differently. So, it helps her understand more because I don't believe she has ADHD, so it helps her to be able to see that. And we talk about it more and more only because she works in a field where she has to work with people. So, as she's working with them, she's learning like, "Oh, this person could have a learning and thinking difference. So, I should be more aware or be more accommodating, because they may not be intentionally not listening or intentionally not focusing or intentionally not getting certain things done. There may be another layer to it." Laura: What I hear you say in there is, I'm hearing you passing on the beautiful empathy that I always see in you, to your mom. So, when you got diagnosed, what was the first feeling that you had? Livingston: I was relieved. I was really relieved, because I always thought something was particularly just wrong with me as a person. Because whether it was either social or academic or professional, there was always little symptoms that like, caused challenges for me. And I always just thought that I just had to work through them. But then once I was diagnosed, I realized like, "Oh, OK. So, everything I know — for being at Understood like — oh, this all makes sense now. OK, this makes sense even with my brother, this makes sense with everything."So, I need to really give myself grace and create just coping strategies. And those coping strategies are not going to come all within the next couple of days, next couple months. This is an ongoing thing for myself as I learn more and more about what triggers me, which challenges me, and how to get better. So, like being able to give myself grace. But then it taught me to be able to give others grace as well. Because I mean, I know I have, I'm diagnosed. I know my brothers are, but we don't know the rest of the world. I can't just see it on you. It's not like you can see that someone's diagnosed, but you can start to relate to the symptoms. You can have empathy and understanding on how someone can, as they look confident and they move confident, can be suffering behind closed doors, so giving them that type of grace. And then someone who's suffering in front of you, you can still give them that said type of grace and being able to help them, because they may have a different aspect of ADHD than me. You may know that better than they do because they have no experience or doesn't have the environment that fosters for them to understand challenges specific towards ADHD. Laura: The way you're talking about it tells me that this is coming from an actual experience that you've had with at least one other person, where you were noticing something that maybe they didn't even notice in themselves. Is that true? Livingston: Definitely, yeah. From learning about different specific challenges, like, we were just talking about the twirling of the hair. I mean, everyone twirls their hair, but you can see it specifically in someone that has ADHD. Now for me, because it's similar to me, and I've learned that when I see that, like don't be so hard on them when they're about to present or they're presenting. You know, make it easier for them and then, give them words of encouragement. I don't have to acknowledge it like, "I know you have ADHD," but that type of energy is something that I would have needed if I was that said person. Laura: If I weren't the host of this show, right? And if I weren't open about my diagnosis, do you think that you would be able to tell that I have ADHD? Livingston: Absolutely. Laura: Tell me why! I want to know. This is — I'm getting a little bit narcissistic at this moment, I'm sorry — but just tell me. Livingston: I think we talked about the twirling of the hair before like, a presentation or before you have to speak, you...Laura: What are you talking about? I don't know what you mean.Livingston: That was one of the main things I would see. Our conversations — you're similar to us sometimes, you would just go off track — but we're still talking and having a good time. And I realized, "Oh, so it's not just me. So, she's similar to me, that's cool. And she's running a podcast and a director. So that means, you know, it's great." Laura: You're very kind. You are a creative person, you're a content creator, you're a social media manager. If you had to title your story, what would it be? And now I'm just asking you to do my work for me. I'm sorry, but like...Livingston: That's a very good question. Would it be "ADHD and Diagnosis?" Because my diagnosis is what led to my thought processes now, when it comes to empathy and grace with those with ADHD and being able to help those with ADHD, and then help people who don't have it be able to see it. Laura: I think it's the empathy and grace part of it that is really unique to your story. I mean, the thread that I'm hearing here, the way that you've connected with your mom and she's learning from you and bringing that into her job to have empathy for people. The empathy and grace that you've given to me and to your colleagues. You seem to be a very intuitive person. Give me one more example of that. How do you want us to approach each other to achieve this empathy and grace for people with ADHD? Livingston: I would say you would have to learn more about the signs of being able to see the signs. Me, like I just said, I was able to see signs of you beginning to twirl your hair. And it's not just you, there's other people in our office that do the exact same thing with ADHD. And I see them like, "OK, so that's, you know, a common symptom." And then, as you're talking to someone that's inattentive or hyperactive, they may be quicker to be like, have an outburst or quicker to be offended because they're so emotional. And when you say something that's against them, that their emotions kind of tie in. So, they're very defensive. And learning how to break those defenses with empathy because you're able to see those things. So, I've worked with people like — even with my own brothers — I've seen different types of challenges they may have had. Or if one may get louder than the other. But like, I actually realized "I shouldn't get loud with him. I should hear where he's coming from and seeing why he's getting so loud or why he feels as though he's not being heard."And I realize I've had better conversations and been able to get to more roots of problems with one of my brothers because of that understanding. Like, I didn't understand that beforehand. I didn't even realize those differences in ADHD, like inattentive and hyperactivity, and an aspect or even being combined. So, most people just think ADHD focus. There's so many different ways it can affect a person, which if you listen and try to comprehend with the understanding of how it affects them, you can help that person accommodate themselves or help yourself accommodate that person to the best of your ability. And that's past the professional setting. That's more so, in just everyday life. Laura: That was beautiful. Thank you so much for being here today. Can you get, you want to give a plug to our social channels? Livingston: Yes. Please follow, all of our channels are Understood. Understoodorg on Instagram. Understood on Facebook. Understood everywhere on TikTok, YouTube. Definitely follow us on our journey as we are growing and expanding and showcasing everything from ADHD, dyslexia, dyscalculia, and more learning and thinking differences. Laura: Pro! That was a pro plug right there. And everybody tune into TikTok, where you can see Livingston. He is a star. I was going to say the star, but we have a lot of stars. But I don't know, I think you're the star. Yeah. Livingston: Thank you, Laura. I really appreciate you having me come on here and talking about my story. I really appreciate it. Laura: You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDAha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi Jessamine! Jessamine: Hi everyone. Laura: Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
Video: What dyscalculia means
What’s the definition of dyscalculia? Dyscalculia is a learning difference that makes math hard. Watch as expert Daniel Ansari explains what research says about dyscalculia. He also shares examples of how kids with dyscalculia struggle with math.
In It
Homework battles: What really matters
Homework. It’s a source of battles in many families. But does it have to be? How can we make homework less stressful for everyone? Homework. It’s a source of battles in many families. But does it have to be? How can we approach homework so that it doesn’t cause so much stress for our kids — and ourselves? In this episode, hosts Rachel Bozek and Gretchen Vierstra talk all things homework with special education teacher Shira Moskovitz. Hear Shira bust common homework myths, like why the best time to do homework isn’t always right after school. And why it’s OK if your child’s homework station is a bit messy. Plus, get tips on how to give kids homework support while fostering their independence. Related resources FAQs about homework for kids6 steps for breaking down assignmentsEpisode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs...Rachel: ...the ups and downs...Gretchen: ...of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor raising two kids with ADHD. Today we're talking about homework.Gretchen: Oh, homework. It's the source of many afterschool battles in my household. And I know I'm not alone here.Rachel: No, you're not. So what can we do to make homework time more productive and less of a struggle?Gretchen: To answer this, we're delighted to be talking today with Shira Moskovitz.Rachel: Shira is a special education teacher in New York City, with expertise in technology and dyslexia.Gretchen: Shira, welcome to "In It."Shira: Thank you.Gretchen: So homework. I'm guessing as a fifth-grade teacher, this is something some of your students struggle with.Shira: Most definitely.Gretchen: Oh, most definitely. OK. So what do you hear from your parents and caregivers who come to you with questions or concerns about homework? What are their main concerns?Shira: I think that most parents are worried that if they don't get it all done, a catastrophe will happen. And I think my biggest perspective as a teacher is to debunk that myth. There is no catastrophe.Gretchen: There is no catastrophe. Great.Rachel: So what would you say are the overarching issues that get in the way of kids doing their homework? I mean, if you can just lay out kind of the top few that come to mind, and then we can tackle them one at a time or however it works for you.Shira: Sure. Well, I'll start with probably the biggest one that applies to every child is that they are tired after a long day of school. And they come home and there's more work. That's the biggest issue.The second issue, maybe they didn't understand the skill exactly in class, or they don't totally understand the instructions. So they come home and there's an adult at home and they say, "Help me with this." With what? Not exactly sure. I don't totally get it. I need help. And if the child is struggling, the parent is definitely going to be struggling, because the parent wasn't with me in class.Gretchen: Mm hmm. So we have a few areas we love to tackle when it comes to homework challenges. And I'm going to start with the first one that we mentioned already, which is that hurdle of getting kids to actually sit down, maybe not sit down, but do their homework, right? Especially after that long day of school when they're tired and maybe they went straight from school to other activities. And so now it's even later and they're hungry. You know, especially kids who have trouble focusing. Kids with ADHD might have a hard time getting going on this. So what is the advice that you tend to give students and families about the first hurdle: getting on the homework?Shira: Definitely. So I would say kind of like what you said is that it's not necessarily that they need to sit down. A lot of parents talk about setting up a homework space, and that is definitely something that you want to do with your child. But make sure it's a space that your child is comfortable with. Your child should be driving that decision of where homework is done, what materials they use. At the end of the day, if they're lying down on the floor or they're sitting on a cozy cushion and they feel more comfortable that way, or they're standing and they can get their work done, that's what's best. So ask them. Let them make that choice of where's the best place to do their homework.The other thing is really helpful is consistency. So having that consistent space and that consistent time. If I know from this time to this time I'm doing homework, my expectation becomes part of this routine. So setting up a set space and a set time, even if it's not the most conventional space or not the most conventional materials, whatever your child feels most comfortable with, that'll be the — produce the best homework results.Gretchen: So what about the most conventional time? Because I know, you know, when I was a classroom teacher, families were like, well, I want them to get it done right away so that I know we have dinner, that we get ready to bed and it's over. But not all kids want to do it right away.Shira: I definitely agree. And I think that as a child, I didn't want to do it right away. And there's two things I want to address there. One is basic needs being met. If your child is hungry, they are not going to do homework. I know that if I'm hungry, I'm not going to be productive. So maybe it's not a full dinner, maybe it's a snack. Maybe that's part of their homework space is that there's a snack there. And if that's what your child needs, that's OK.And other than that, knowing that if your child does best with homework after dinner or after a shower, that's OK. The homework still gets done. And if you create that routine for them with that expectation that, OK, we're going to eat dinner and then do our homework, or going to eat dinner, change, shower, and then do homework, whatever that may be. As long as they know that that's going to happen Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, they'll be ready for that.Gretchen: Rachel, I know you had a perspective on time, right?Rachel: I do. And my question — I'll give you a spoiler alert — is about getting your homework done in the morning. And one scenario that I've seen in my own house is if there's an activity like right after school or within an hour or so of getting home from school, there's not really time to make homework happen in a, you know, kind of calm the way it should be done way. But then at the same time, if they come home from, you know, softball practice or basketball practice or something and then go straight into dinner, then they're tired and like kind of done.And for me, I'm sometimes for myself after like a full day of work or sitting at my computer, if I need to like take care of something else, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do that first thing in the morning. So when my daughter, who's in fourth grade, is like, "I'm going to do my homework in the morning," I'm kind of like, "Yeah, I get it." What do you think about that? Because mornings are not always really set up for getting homework done. But also like sometimes her brain is in a better place to do it at that time.Shira: Right. I want to challenge what you said that mornings aren't set up to do homework. They would be set up if you made it set up. If that's your routine, if mornings are the best for you, why is that not the best time to do homework? It very well could be with a nice, you know, you know, you could have your cereal and homework, especially when some of the homework is a little more passive, like reading a chapter from a book. There's no reason you can't do that with breakfast. You most definitely can.Gretchen: What do you think, Rachel?Rachel: I like it. I like it. I think the answer to my own question there is getting everybody up earlier, but maybe that is the answer.Shira: I definitely think it takes some flexibility on the parent's part, but also knowing each individual kid. Maybe one child needs homework in the evenings and one child needs homework in the mornings, and that is a lot of extra work for us. But if it's a pressure point at home, setting up differentiated routines for our different children is something we're doing anyway in other areas of life. And homework can just be one of those things.Rachel: OK. So we've talked about when and how to get our kids to actually sit down and do their homework. But once you get over that hurdle, what do you do about a kid whose tendency is to just rush to get it over with as fast as they possibly can?Shira: I think this happens more when children have a lot of homework to do. That's a big reaction — I have seven assignments to do tonight, so I'm going to try to get through them as quickly as possible because TV is waiting. My friend is waiting. Dinner's waiting, whatever it may be.I definitely recommend framing at home. The emotions around homework in general are very tense — and often very tense for the parents as well. So if we frame homework for our children in a way that it's not a race to the finish line. There's not this pressure to get everything done, but just to practice the skills you learned at school that day. Our perspective is different. Our child's perspective is different. Hopefully the quality is different, even if they don't get through every single math problem. They do three and they do them really well. At the end of the day, they practice that skill more than rushing through 17 problems or whatever it may be.Gretchen: That makes total sense. I love the framing idea. Let's say that we've, you know, set up this tone that, you know, while we want you to practice your skills and if you're not going to get through all of them, that's fine. But you'll need to at least, you know, accomplish like maybe three or focus on this for 10 minutes. Are we supposed to hover and make sure they get that done? Or what are we supposed to do as parents in that situation?Shira: I would really say ultimately it depends on the child. But no, the goal is independence. This is not your homework. I always tell my students, "Your mom and dad went to fifth grade already. I know they know this stuff."So I ask parents to be as hands-off as possible in this situation. If you know your child is not yet independent and they do need more frequent check-ins, then do that for them. But I would explain to them the goal is "I'm checking in because I know this is hard for you, and this is something that we've discussed is a way that will help you. But one day the goal is that you can do this on your own."But check-ins are only one way to make sure that they're getting done. You can also do things that help foster independence, like having them set a timer for themselves. And they say, "OK, in those 10 minutes, I'm going to get through two problems," and then they have to self-reflect after the 10-minute timer rings. Now, granted, does that take a certain level of independence when the timer rings to reflect on that goal? Yes. But maybe that's something that the first couple of times you can do with them and then they can do on their own.Rachel: I have a question on the organization front — or really the disorganization front. You know, sometimes for us in my house, the biggest hurdle to getting the homework going is the organization factor. You know, it starts with like, "Hey, how much homework do you have?" Or "Do you have homework?" And it's like, "No, I don't." Or "I just have this one quick thing." And then later you find out that it's actually like not one thing and they're not quick things. But regardless of how much there is, sometimes it's also just like, where's your pencil? You know, like the most basic thing leads to, like, the meltdown. And I mean, do you have any suggestions for just being set up, especially if they're not doing the work in a conventional workspace? Like if we're at the kitchen table or we're, you know, kind of just somewhere else in the house besides a desk — that "having it all together" piece of it.Shira: Yes. So I think this is another thing that you want to let your child drive. My favorite activity is going to Dollar Tree and letting my child pick out the pens and pencils and highlighters and the caddy, because that's for me, the conventional learning space is not going to work for homework, you know. So if you have a caddy and it sits on the floor, or if you've a lap desk with materials, and if your child owns that, this is mine. I picked out my Superman pencils. You want all those different pencils to go back in the container at the end of the night because you want them there tomorrow.Will it solve everything? No. Because that still comes down to organization at school, which as a parent can be frustrating, but you can't really control. Because if there is no system in place or the system in place doesn't work for your child, yeah, you're not going to know. But that's a conversation you can have with your teacher. "Hey, you know, my child struggles with knowing the homework. What are some tools we can set up so that my child comes home with an agenda or with a list" — whatever that may be that works for your child. And it's OK to ask for that type of thing, even if it's not what works for the rest of the class, so that you do come home with the most positive potential outcome.Rachel: I think that the caddy suggestion is actually really great because who doesn't love a good caddy for their markers and pens and pencils? And, you know, one thing that came to mind as you were talking about that, though, was the executive function piece, right? So what I've seen is we'll get, you know, the most kind of amazing setup for that kind of thing. And then it's still like everything's on the floor next to it. And so, you know, maybe that's just, you know, the executive function, you know, challenges for some kids, I think, will still probably come into play. But I think it is a great start for them to have something like that to work with so they can kind of carry it around.Shira: Right. I think that if you're talking about executive function, really, is it a problem if all the materials are on the floor or does it just look messy so it bothers us? I would say that if their zone of doing homework includes papers and pencils on the floor next to them, maybe that's their done pile. As long as it gets put away at the end, that's OK.Rachel: I like it.Shira: Teaching into, you know, where to get your materials, how to put them away at the end. What it looks like in the middle may look like a mess to us. And if that's what works best for our child, that's the best mess that they can have.Rachel: That's great. Done pile. I need that.Gretchen: You know, speaking of executive function, let's talk a little bit about time management. I know that sometimes kids may look at an assignment and it's overwhelming, right? And they don't know — they think it might take too long or too little time or they don't plan for it. And I know lots of teachers recommend chunking assignments, breaking it down. Can you maybe talk to us about how you help kids manage their time when it comes to assignments at home?Shira: Yes. And that's actually the first thing I wanted to say is that I wouldn't ask parents to chunk an assignment for a child if they don't totally know the background of the assignment. So let's say we do have a bigger project for a whole end-of-unit assignment. And if you're a parent in that situation and this seems overwhelming to your child and you're not sure, don't feel that pressure to come up with a timeline on your own. Reach out to the teacher. Because what I do is I will give an outline to the whole assignment.And sometimes I'll even give a heads-up to the parent. I haven't told your child about X, Y, and Z, but this is what's coming. So in week one, I recommend doing this. In week two, I recommend doing that. So I wouldn't ask a parent on their own to figure all that out, but I'm very happy to collaborate with a parent. Or maybe I send home a timeline, and the parent's like "This is still overwhelming." Great. Let's break it down further.But don't as a parent feel that overwhelming sensation that your child feels and then drown in it. Because like I said in the beginning, our attitude towards homework and this space that we have at home will be mirrored in our child. So we have this positive outlook. Our child can have that positive outlook. So we say, "That's OK, we'll figure this out. Let's get the teacher's help." That's what your child is going to do the next day. They're going to say, "It's OK. I'm going to go to my teacher and get help." As opposed to spiraling.Gretchen: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I have found at home as a parent, sometimes when I — at first there's some overwhelm, right. They say, oh, my gosh, it's so big and I have so much to do, blah, blah, blah. And I will give space for a little bit of venting. And then I say, "Did your teacher kind of break it out into smaller assignments? Is there anywhere where you have an outline?" "Oh, oh, yeah. I have it here somewhere."And sometimes I think that as parents, we need to — we might have to dig a little with our kids to ask for this chunking information because it's there. But they're — maybe their feelings are in the way, right? And they're forgetting that it's there, because they're just so stressed about the big assignment.Shira: Right. And definitely validate. And I want to say in general that sometimes the assignment is not very big. But for some reason it feels very big for our child. Maybe it's just that one worksheet and today that's feeling really big. And I do encourage families to set a time limit or a question limit, whatever that may be, even if you're not going to get anywhere near finishing it. We don't want our child —I don't — and as teachers, we don't want our students to go home and feel this just overwhelmed or negative feelings about learning. Then the homework wasn't productive. Maybe they got it all right. But if that negative emotion comes back to school the next day surrounding this work, we still have a lot to deal with.So I would rather, "OK. You only got two done. That's fine. That's what felt like your max for that day. OK. Maybe another day won't feel as overwhelming." But I really want parents to cut off. Homework should not be that stressor, should not be the thing that's spiraling. We know the concept of homework may be overwhelming. But when it comes down to doing it, if it really is getting overwhelming, that's where as a parent you can say, "OK, we've had enough for today."Gretchen: Sounds good to me. I just wanted to check in on one particular area. So if you know your kid has dyslexia and so they have trouble with reading, or they have dyscalculia, so math is more difficult. When you're home working with your child, first of all, I wonder, do you do those things first because they're hardest? Do you save them for later because they're hardest? And what kinds of supports do we suggest to families? I mean, I'm sure there's some that they already know of from meetings with teachers and such. But I'm just wondering what your advice is around that.Shira: Well, I would say about which comes first. That's your child. Your child is driving this homework scenario, right? So your child's going to pick whether that comes first or that, you know, because the least favorite thing for last or smack in the middle. But I would also say about tools: Mimic whatever is going on in school. If your child's able to read in school because they have assistive technology, you should have those same resources at home. And specifically with assistive technology, because you mentioned dyslexia, but really it applies to lots of disabilities, lots of times on a child's IEP, they'll say this works best for them with the support of X, Y, and Z technology. And oftentimes the school itself will provide that technology. And what a lot of parents don't realize is that that technology is not just for school learning, it is for learning, which means that your child can bring that device home every single day as long as they bring it back the next day.Gretchen: That is such a good tip.Shira: Build on to that. Are there virtual math manipulatives that we can use? All these things that are free and available — use them. But especially please, please, if they're using them in school and being successful with them in school, use them at home. You don't want to reinvent the wheel. If this is working for them, make sure it's continuing to work. And specifically about assistive technology, parents can ask the school to get trained in the apps or tools that your child is using so that you know how to use it the best way, just like your child's teacher did. So that it shouldn't be any different than what they're doing in school.Not to say that it's going to be easy. Any of these tools, assistive technology or these manipulatives, don't suddenly erase a learning or thinking difference. But if it's a support that was determined to be necessary, then don't take that away from your child at home. Then you're signing yourself up for some challenges.Gretchen: I love that advice of make sure you're getting those tools at home, ask for them, and ask for the training. I think the training is key. So thank you, Shira, for mentioning that.Rachel: Yeah, because nobody wants to be like sitting on YouTube trying to figure out how to use this thing that, you know, the teacher probably could have shared.Shira: Especially during a homework crisis.Gretchen: Yes. Especially when you're hungry, when you're...Rachel: "Hold on a minute. Let me — let me check YouTube for 15 minutes. Just hang tight. Hang tight."Rachel: So this might be our last question, but I think it's a really important one. What is your biggest piece of advice regarding homework? Like, what do you find yourself telling families the most?Shira: I think it comes back to the emotions. There's a lot of stress for parents about homework, and we inadvertently pass that on to our children. And that stress comes from so many different things. I'm worried that my child isn't doing well. I'm worried that I don't know the skill well enough to help my child. I'm worried that it's not all going to get done. All the things we discussed.So when we change our perspective on homework, that it all needs to be right, that it all needs to be done, that it needs to be perfect — any of that — and we're just having a more positive outlook on homework, we're more likely to let our child drive those conversations, pick the space, pick the time, pick all of those things. And if we're relaxed, they'll be relaxed. And will it all get done? Not necessarily. Will it all be perfect? Not necessarily. And all those things are OK. And if we accept that as parents, our children will accept that as students.Rachel: That's so helpful.Gretchen: That's great advice. Thank you so much for joining us today, Shira.Shira: It's been my pleasure. It's been great to talk to you.Gretchen: By the way, you can find more great tips and insights from Shira on Understood's Wunder app.Rachel: Should we explain what that is for anybody who doesn't know?Gretchen: Yeah. Good idea. Wunder is a free community app for parents and caregivers raising kids who learn and think differently. So it's a place to connect with other parents who get what you're going through.Rachel: There's all these different groups there on topics like ADHD or dyslexia. The one that Shira leads is called "Ask an Expert: Dyslexia, Tech, and Learning," where she gets into some of that stuff that we talked about today, like how parents can get comfortable with the assistive technology their kids are using at school. So if that sounds interesting to you, go check it out.Gretchen: You've been listening to "In It," from the Understood Podcast Network.Rachel: This show is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Email us at InIt@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music.Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.Gretchen: And thanks for always being in it with us.
Embracing my dyscalculia made me a better student
As I walked into the Disability Resource Center at Arizona State University, I thought about everything I ’d gone through to get there — the hours of tutoring, relearning years of math, and coming to terms with my learning differences.The building was nearly silent because it was summer and school was out of session.After checking in, I waited to be called into my advisor’s office. I looked around. There were tutoring sign-up sheets, inspirational posters, pamphlets, and flyers stacked and waiting to be taken.It felt surreal sitting there, waiting to meet with my advisor. Meeting with her would help me get the help I needed once I started college. I thought back seven years ago to a time when I wasn’t too keen on getting help.I was 12 and in the sixth grade.It was the day I had been nervously anticipating for weeks: the day I was to be tested for special education services. I had hoped with every bone in my body that I wouldn’t need help. I didn’t want to be “special ed.”To me, getting special education would have meant I was dumb, incapable — that there was no hope for me. At the time, I felt like my trouble with math wasn’t a big deal. I had struggled with math ever since kindergarten and my acceptance of failure had become second nature.When the evaluation results came back I was sitting with my mom — a teacher — and I counted my breaths: One. Two. Three.Then my school’s special education teacher said the words that would change my life:“She will need to receive services; she has a lot of challenges with math.”I looked at my mom and saw a sense of relief on her face. It would take me many years to understand why she felt that way.For the rest of middle school, I struggled to catch up on the years of math I hadn’t learned. All the while my self-esteem dropped lower and lower, and I kept telling myself I didn’t need help. But when high school started, I knew I had to change.I was tired of hating math. I was tired of thinking I was inadequate. Everyone wanted to help me succeed — my mom, my teachers, and my friends. The only person left was myself.I had to see my dyscalculia for what it was — something that made me different, but not dumb or less than. Math was hard for me, but it wasn’t impossible. There was nothing wrong with getting extra help. Every day, I told myself it was OK that I learned at a different pace and in a different way than the other students. I worked my hardest to understand math. And I started to believe in myself.High school brought a lot of challenges, both personal and academic. But I learned to accept my dyscalculia; it has become a part of me and it will always be a part of my life.Years later, as I sat waiting to meet with my college disability advisor, I felt a sense of pride.I had made it through high school. I had become a positive and confident person.With a smile on my face, I walked into my advisor’s office. We discussed the accommodations and support I needed in college. I felt a huge sense of relief — it was then that I understood what my mom had felt that day when I was evaluated for special education.In the future, I know I’ll have to work smarter and harder than others because of my learning difference. But I also know that I will continue to embrace my dyscalculia as an important part of who I am.
The Opportunity Gap
Why Black girls with learning disabilities need more visibility
Black girls with ADHD and learning differences are often overlooked. Youth advocate Atira Roberson wants that to change. Atira Roberson says she’s Black, female, and has a learning disability — and if you don’t see all three, you don't see her. The Opportunity Gap welcomes Atira to the show for a special conversation about what it means to be a Black girl with learning differences in the United States. Atira shares her journey — from a student with an IEP, unaware of her differences, to a candidate for a master’s in public administration. She talks about the strong Black mother who advocated for her, and the church community that supported her along the way. And she shares her number one priority for educational change in this country: stopping the criminalization of Black girls with ADHD and learning disabilities.Related resourcesTo be Black in America with a learning disabilityVideo: An African American poet who learns differentlyTwo Black women discuss the teen with ADHD put in juvie for not doing her homeworkEpisode transcriptAtira: It's a delicate balance. I'm Black, I'm a female, and I'm a learning disability. All three of those parts make Atira who Atira is. If you don't see all three of them equally, then you don't see me.Julian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us.Welcome back, everybody. This is Julian Saavedra and…?Marissa: …Marissa Wallace.Julian: I think we just need to jump into it today because we have a really awesome guest today. So let's jump in. Learning and thinking differences are common, regardless of race, age, and gender. And we know that learning and thinking differences can look different on everyone.In today's episode, we want to really talk about how Black girls specifically, and Black girls with learning and thinking differences, are often overlooked and criminalized in school. And we know that we need to have these conversations as many times as possible because it is a gigantic problem across the country.Today, we want to make sure that we uplift our guest and her story. So today we welcome our incredibly special guest. Not only is she an amazing writer, she's currently pursuing her master's in public administration at the University of Texas at San Antonio. She serves on the Young Adult Leadership Council at the National Center for Learning Disabilities.And she's part of our Understood family. Her goal is to become an education program and policy analyst to shape the future of education. And to, one day, a proudly serving U.S. Secretary of Education. OK, Secretary Atira, welcome to the pod.Atira: Yes, let's go ahead and speak it into the atmosphere.Marissa: Just like Julian said, we're super-duper excited to talk to you and get to know you. Let's just start off and just jump on in and tell us about yourself.Atira: So I am born and raised in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I'm from central Arkansas. I started off the first part of my education career, I always tell people I started off going to Catholic private school. Then I got pulled out and I got put into the public education system, um, which I can get into that later.So aside from all that time in school, as you mentioned, and then I work part-time, I serve as much as possible. That's one of my favorite things to do is serve, which is why I was so excited to do this. I have no problem, any little bit of anything I can do, because I know there is somewhere out there, a little girl who looks just like me, who needs to hear this.Marissa: Yes. And we need people to tell their story. So thank you, thank you for being open to doing that because you are absolutely right. So you mentioned a little bit about your schooling and how it changed from being in a private setting to being in a public school setting. So can you talk to us and tell us a little bit more about that experience in both of those different settings.Atira: Absolutely. So it was, I want to say, yeah, around the early 2000s. It was a Catholic private school here in Hot Springs. I had got pulled out of there, I believe either right before or right after they had pulled me out that the end-of-year standardized tests that they had given us, administered to us, had been outdated like in a substantial amount of years, which I don't even know how that was possible, but it happened. Next thing I know, I'm in this public school, and I was able to get tested for learning and attention issues. And as a result of that, I was obviously behind because I was clearly not being taught what I was supposed to, how much I was supposed to, when I was supposed to.I got held back. I repeated first grade, which they didn't tell me what was going on, I just, you just went through it. And I get they definitely wanted to shield me, but looking back, I wish they would've told me a little bit more. Of course, you can water it down to where a kid can understand it because they are far more aware than what we give them credit for.I repeated first grade and thankfully, at the school I went to, it was a performing arts elementary school, I got to, I got pulled out I think almost every day, if I'm not mistaken. And I got to go to resource room and I was able to get more one-on-one time. So I did get tested again, I remember, at some point I want to say around middle school, to find out more about what it was, as far as my learning disability. When I got to high school was when I really was, I guess, kind of involved in it more. We had way more IEP meetings, and I was able to get pulled out of some of my mainstream classes, because the majority of the classes I was in in high school were all regular, except for math, because I do have dyscalculia. I think it would have been nice to know because my senior year we had one final IEP meeting and they handed me this big folder of my stuff, and I sat down one night and I flipped through it and was like, "Oh, I didn't know this."Marissa: So for our listeners, just reminding everyone that an IEP stands for an Individualized Education Program, and it's really important because that is your program; that is designed for you, it's to support you. It's your plan so that you can learn in your best possible way.Atira: And thankfully, you know, with the power of Google and internet, period, I'm able to research and dive into it more. Because I didn't know; they didn't tell me; the school wasn't going to tell me. And really the school didn't think I was going to really do anything outside of high school day? My academic adviser had told my mom that she would be lucky to do anything beyond high school or go to a vocational school, which I don't know why he would make a slur about vocational school, because there is nothing wrong with that.A degree is a degree, no matter where you get it from, as far as I'm concerned. I will never fault anybody for doing what they need to do. Also, it saves money. So go to that vocational school, please.Marissa: That's a pretty intense decision that he's making for you at that age. And Atira, you had mentioned that you were shielded from the process. Does that shielding come from school or from your family?Atira: I would say definitely both. And I understand why, but looking back, I think preparing me to do stuff for myself, because when you get to college, you have to handle your own paperwork, go to your own meetings, and communicate, communicate yourself.So I was, when I ended up going to undergrad, I was forced into the position of do it and figure it out, which thankfully I had access to a really good disability resource center, which was absolutely amazing. Even then, there was things I feel like could have been done to help mitigate that, because I did have, unfortunately, low self-esteem. And when you do have that low self-esteem, you are an easy target. People smell that on you. It made me easy to get bullied and so I did, because I was ashamed. Not thought you owe anybody an explanation. But I feel like it's important. We do end up having way more conversations at the topic of learning disabilities. And especially when you are a Black person with learning disabilities, because there are far more out there than what people are aware of.Julian: Atira, so I wanted to ask specifically about the intersection of you being a Black woman and having a learning disability. You know, you spoke about your experiences in school in relation to some of the programming that happened.There's something very specific about our experience being Black folks in this country. And specifically in relation to all of the challenges you may have faced. Can you speak more about how that intersection of being who you are racially, but also in the way you're learning and thinking differences related to that?Atira: It's been like a really hard time for me to get to it, but I'm proud of this. I had a conversation with a friend of mine where people were like, "Oh, you need to call it a gift," and I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I have a learning disability. This is what it is. And it's not a bad thing. I don't know why we're so scared of the word "disability." It's good. It's — it is what it is. It doesn't have to be bad just because it makes you uncomfortable and makes you want to clutch your pearls doesn't mean I need to apologize for it. What am I going to do that for? Because it's never going to change. I will be someone with a learning disability until the day that I die. I have no reason to have a seat at the table, but I deserve to be here whether you think so or not. So I'm going to take the materials and build my own table and my own seat because I matter. We matter in this conversation because we're not going away. There are so many Black students who go unnoticed because there's, like, a disparity between those who can have access to it and those who don't. I didn't —Julian: An opportunity gap is what you're talking about.Atira: Look! Pun intended. There we go. Perfect. But it needs to be all across the board because the problem is, is if you don't willingly go, if you don't go out and look for this information, you're really not going to find it. And the thing is, even if you go out looking for it, you got to have a general idea of how to look for it, if that makes sense. So you can get lost. And by the time you figure it out, it can be too late and let's be real, it is expensive to get assistance. When I had first left for grad school to go in San Antonio, fall of 2019, I was trying to get assistance at the new school I was at through disability services. I sent them a copy of my paperwork that I had through disability services and my undergrad. And the way they work, they send — you request what you need, and it goes before a decision committee. And so you can either get confirmed your accommodation requests or they can deny you. I had never heard of this before. I was like, it's already mine. Why are you going to deny me of what I'm supposed to already have? That doesn't make sense. They denied me access to be able to take my exams in a reduced distraction environment.And so I called my old disability counselor and I was like, "Can you explain to me why I had access to it here?" and they were like, "You had ADHD and you displayed those symptoms. So that's why we gave it to you." So I called them and they still denied me. And they were like, "If you go get tested again, you can have it."It was $300 to get tested. That is expensive. We don't have that, because there is, because there's a financial gap between Black people and white people. It's not just accessible. So I was like, "OK, there it goes that." So I, thankfully I was able to have professors who I had went up to ahead of time to talk to. I was like, "Hey, this is what it is. This is what I need from you. Are you on board or not?" And I used to be ashamed of having to get like that, 'cause I'm a very chill, reserved, laid-back person until I really get the chance to, like, warm up to you, so to speak, I'm going to be really reserved. And even if that's not the case, that's just me.I'm a nonconfrontational person. But I have understood, unfortunately, through the years that you have to get confrontational. My mom had to get confrontational at these meetings because they did not want me in mainstream classes. They didn't want to have to do the work to make sure I was ahead. And at first I was like, "Oh my gosh, my mom is so embarrassing."Julian: Listen, we know how Black mothers get down. We know.Atira: They have to though. I don't — I'm not even sorry for that. Thank you, Black moms everywhere, because we would have fell through the cracks. Let's be real. There's no — I could have easily not been blessed with the opportunity to sit in front of you right now. But my mother was a very extremely big role in making sure I didn't fall through the cracks. She knew I could do my work. Am I going to have to do it in a different way? Yes. Am I always going to be a slow reader? Yes. Is my attention span going to be shaky sometimes? Absolutely. "Find a way to make it work for her because that is your job. That is what you guys signed up for." And fortunately, it shouldn't have gotten to the point to where she had to get angry. And sometimes she did raise her voice a little loudly and use a few explicatives, but it had to happen. And now I see when I got to college and I saw her doing that, but I have to do it in my own way. And that's OK. I know I'm not being ghetto. I'm not being loud. I'm not being obnoxious. I am being Atira Roberson.Julian: Atira, one question I have related to what you're saying is — not even a question, a statement. You have a confidence that does not come from nowhere. Right? I want to know — the confidence, the intelligence, the candor that you speak with, it comes from somewhere.And I was fortunate to read the article you wrote, "Black in America With a Learning Disability." And in the article you talked about candidly about your mother, uh, Ms. Jackie, and how Ms. Jackie, as you said, supported you through and through in the school experience and she raised her voice and did what she had to do to make sure you were getting the services you needed.My question is, especially for all the parents out there listening, what are some of the things that your mother did with you at home to help you develop this confidence that you have?Atira: Well, let me just make it clear. This hasn't been, I have not been like this all my life. Like I said, I was far more reserved even up until a few years ago. This has been an evolution. 'Cause, like, I was ashamed of who I was. I hated everything about being Atira. I would not be, if you would've told me three to five years ago, I would be doing this, it was more of an awakening moment to where I said, "No, not anymore." You know, and I have my down days, just like everybody else. But when you realize there is a bigger purpose. And like I said, it's not an accident that I have a learning disability, but here I am. And my mom told me, "Don't be ashamed of who you are; run with it." It's going to be easier some days, it's going to be harder some days, because I mean, let's be real. The world is definitely not a happy unicorn rainbow place.Not everybody is going to be Team Atira. You gotta be Team You before you invite anybody else into the circle, otherwise anybody else is not going to mean anything. You have to be your biggest fan first before anybody else can. She taught me that. And if it wasn't for that and having extra tutoring outside of school, that my dad and my mom, you know, paid for, and me going to different little workshops and stuff on the weekends.And she even put me into tae kwon do at one point, like, helped break me out of my shell because she, we're not going to do this. "Forget what they say. What do you say?" I'm different. I'm going to do things differently. My voice is squeaky sometimes. Sometimes I'm up here, sometimes I'm not. Let me just be me and own it. Don't run away from it. This is who I am and it's never going to change. Either take it or leave it.Julian: I'm sure s lot of the things that you say they were directly told to you. Ms. Jackie, I hope one day we're fortunate enough to meet you, but shout out to you, sis, for crafting this young lady.Marissa: And obviously you're giving credit to your mom. I'm curious, though, is that in addition to your mom and that experience, what are some other places where you have felt completely yourself and your authentic self?Atira: I would definitely say my church family. They are absolutely amazing people. The most chill, down-to-earth people you will meet. I call them my family; I'm in church or not. I grew up around them my whole life. They knew me and I didn't really start talking —Julian: Let's get them shouted out too.Atira: The Union Missionary Baptist Church, Hot Springs, Arkansas, Pastor Corey Scott. Yes. They definitely gave me the support. And I used to be, like I said, I used to be shy to even get up and do stuff there. It's a safe space and I knew they would not judge me at all. And they are there to help me. I can tell you right now if I call one of them or even my pastor, or even my first lady and be like, "I really need your help right now." They, either they would come theirselves or they would send somebody. Like we, we roll deep when we roll. They have always been there for the get-go, and some of them have even helped raise me, to be completely honest, because they knew what I was capable of.Julian: Um, so Atira, so Marissa and I are both longtime educators. We got into this work because we wanted to make sure that the students that we work with were getting the appropriate choices and the opportunities that they deserve.So I've been an educator for, you know, almost 18 years. I'm an assistant principal now in an urban district; Marissa is working on her doctorate in special education. So it's something that we're really passionate about. And we hear that you want to join us in this work and ultimately work specifically in education policy. Can you tell me more about why you would like to make this your career and why specifically the policy side?Atira: So I ended up even getting into this. I was enrolled in a class my senior year called nonprofit leadership management something. We had to do an individual project. I started, um, doing research and I ended up springing upon NCLD. So I was like, "OK, I'll use them for my final project. That's cool. I have a learning disability. Why would I not?" And as I was doing more research about this organization, I find out they have a leadership council, a two-year leadership council. I had never heard about them. I've never heard anything about this.And I mean, I applied anyway and found out that summer that I was accepted. Through getting connected with them and being more educated about things that go on within the world of learning disabilities, I was like, "Oh my goodness." I really loved it. I mean, it's my life, so I'm way more — you become way extra fascinated in it then, but then learning more about it and then seeing myself in it and being connected with these people. I was like, "Oh my gosh, why wouldn't I do this for the long haul?" And I ended up when I had, the beginning of 2020, I went to speak at a conference by Education Trust. I spoke about classroom inclusion. And of course my experience with the learning disability and being able to be in a room full of minority students who are like you or not even like you, but educators who want to learn, how do we make this better? And me sharing my experience as a student. 'Cause I have been a student for a very long time. I have. A moment of "This is what I need to do. Oh my gosh. I love this." So it was like that moment I was like, "OK, I'm here, we're running with it. Let's go full speed ahead." And I've really been on this train so much.Julian: So it all came from this one project and this one class, this few clicks, and here you find yourself being exposed to the work that's being done at the policy level. And to me, it sounds like it's one of these other barriers that we as Black people endure in education, where there's not exposure to all of the things that are out there to support us, and specifically to support students with learning and thinking differences.Marissa: And you said something about the evolution of your story, right? And that, I think that's so important because there's so much life experience that you have that has made you who you are today, and the fact that you can now confidently define yourself and be OK? What do you think are the number one issues facing Black girls with learning differences?Atira: The way we discipline. I'm doing — my final project right now is actually racial disparities on school discipline. Because we already know Black students get disciplined more than white students. And when I was digging and working on my lit review, I had read one piece where there was actually a high portion of Black girls that got suspended or disciplined, because I didn't see what type of discipline was used, but even a few of them had learning disabilities.And we, the way we discipline students, anyway, needs a complete overhaul because there's too much — not free will, but there's too much room for discretion. If there's too much room for you to make your own personal narrative of what happened when it's not even close to what actually happened, but because you're the teacher and I'm the student, they're going to believe what you say versus me, because I'm the troubled kid. I'm the one who's acting out and being loud, when, really, I was just passionate about what we were talking about. That's a very big problem that I see, and it's — I didn't even know it was this bad until I started doing research, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, we're priming our little Black girls and our Black boys, especially the Black boys, to go through the school-to-prison pipeline." And it shouldn't have to be like that. And then by the time you realize it, you want to try to pull back and fix the damage. And the damage is done. If we can unlearn and relearn a better way to discipline our students, that would definitely help.We need, we need way more funding to spend time on special education. Especially for our students, because sometimes you're not going to get it in the classroom. You need outside help, and that's OK. We need to train our teachers better because what I have seen is, unless you're someone who specializes in special education, you're not really going to learn much about it.That's something that I feel like every teacher should know. And I'm not saying you need to be 100 percent expert in it by any means. No, but you need to learn how to work with every student. The ones that look like you and especially the ones that don't look like you, because we're not a threat. I deserve the same time, love, and attention that you're giving that other student.Julian: Let me ask, then, thinking about you're now working on learning more about how educational policy can shape the experiences of students like us. What do we do to help uplift some of the younger sisters right now, some of the younger sisters that are in there that are like you, but they're not the fully formed young woman that you are, and they haven't found their voice yet. What advice would you give to them? What things would you say to them so that they can develop themselves the way you have?Atira: I would definitely say, if I could speak to them, if I could speak to a younger version of myself, I would definitely say, "Do not be sorry. Don't be sorry about who you are and what you are. You are here for a reason. You are beautiful. I see you. You matter. They didn't make you, so they certainly don't have permission to break you, at all. You're here for a reason. This is only, this is just going to be only the beginning. This is one part of a whole beautiful big book story. Just keep going. I know it sucks. I know it hurts. And there are going to be times where you cry and want to tap out, yes, but just keep going. Because I have times like that all the time." And that's the thing. People think that Black women are just so strong and fearless, and we're not. I can tell we are tired of being superhero. You have to have a healthy amount of selfishness because I cannot pour into you at the expense of losing myself. That's what I used to do. I, that's what I used to do, but I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not just somebody that you can pick and choose and put, pick up, and put down when you want to. My heart is too fragile for that. We are too fragile for that. You got to learn how to say no sometimes, and know that saying no is a good thing. Sometimes that's one of the most powerful weapons you can have is saying no. And you don't owe anybody an explanation why. Sometimes that's the difference between you going on or you snapping and doing something irreversible to yourself that you can't take back. Because Black mental health is real. This is something that's going to take years and years to fix because it's generational, because we were taught this. So I got to unlearn it. I got to teach my kids and my kids' kids "That's not OK. This is the new way we're doing things. And this is what we should have did, but back then, they didn't know. But now we know, so it's got to stop."Julian: In terms of the kids and the generations that have to learn things. I'm thinking about all the listeners out there that are parents, and they're parents who might be parents of children who are experiencing learning and thinking differences right now, as we speak. What kind of things would you say they should be doing to help support themselves, but also support their children?Atira: I would say in the event that you do find out that your child has a learning disability, that's not the end of the world. It's not your fault. You're going to have to do things differently, yes, but it's OK. It's going to be a process. You gotta, you have to embrace the process. It's a struggle, but you have to embrace the struggle and trust the process because everything happens for a reason. Sometimes it's gonna suck, but you got to push through it. It's not going to be the end of the world. And don't put that on your child, even if you are scared. "Oh my gosh, what do I do? My child has dyslexia. Where do I go from here?" Don't, 'cause kids feed off fear. So if I can tell that you're concerned for me, then I'm going to be concerned about myself on top of worrying about your concern, which, and I'm not saying don't hide, do not hide anything from your children, but let's have an open dialogue. Don't be ashamed of your child. 'Cause you don't know what he or she could end up doing as a result of being able to have a learning disability. It's going to be different and it's going to take more work, but it's going to work out. It's not the end.Julian: And I hope that more people like you get out there and do this work because we need you. We need you badly. And I really hope that whenever you are ready to become that secretary of education, just come and find me and I'll come work for you.Atira: Look, the manifestation is real. Better watch out.Julian: But I just wanted to close this out by saying I am so fortunate, and we are so fortunate to have had you joining us tonight. You are such a gem. You have so many positive stories that come with you. I really appreciate everything you're doing, and we support you, so thank you so much for joining us.Atira: Thank you for having me. This means a lot, like I said, I never would have thought a few years ago I would have been doing this, but I know it's not by accident. So thank you for the opportunity. I truly do appreciate it. I don't take it lightly at all.Marissa: Thanks for joining us.Julian: This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you heard today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunity gap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places.We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee, Cinthia Pimentel, and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
What is dyscalculia?
Dyscalculia is a learning disability in math. People with dyscalculia have trouble with math at many levels. They often struggle with key concepts like bigger vs. smaller. And they can have a hard time doing basic math problems and more abstract math.Snapshot: What dyscalculia is Dyscalculia is a condition that makes it hard to do math and tasks that involve math. It’s not as well known or as understood as dyslexia. But some experts believe it’s just as common. That means an estimated 5 to 10 percent of people might have dyscalculia.It’s not clear whether dyscalculia is as common in girls as in boys. Most experts think there’s no difference. (It’s also a myth that boys are better at math than girls.)There are different terms for dyscalculia. Mathematics learning disability is one. Mathematics learning disorder is another. Some people call it math dyslexia or number dyslexia. This can be misleading. Dyslexia is a challenge with reading. Dyscalculia is a challenge with math.People don’t outgrow dyscalculia. Kids who have a hard time with math may continue to struggle with it as adults. But there are strategies that can help them improve math skills and manage the challenges.Difficulty with math happens at all levels. It can be as hard to learn addition as it is to learn algebra. Basic concepts like quantities can also be a challenge.That’s why dyscalculia can make it hard to do everyday tasks. Cooking, grocery shopping, and getting places on time all involve these basic math skills, which are known as number sense.Dive deeperRead more about the term number dyslexia.Try a simulation to see dyscalculia through a child’s eyes.Explore dyscalculia stories — from superstar Cher to a college student who thrives with dyscalculia.Dyscalculia signs and symptomsPeople with dyscalculia can have trouble with math in different ways. Signs may vary from person to person. And they can look different at different ages.Problems with number sense may show up as early as preschool in some people. In other people, the challenges become clear as math gets more complex in school.Common signs of dyscalculia include trouble:Grasping the meaning of quantities or concepts like biggest vs. smallestUnderstanding that the numeral 5 is the same as the word five, and that these both mean five itemsRemembering math facts in school, like times tablesCounting money or making changeEstimating timeJudging speed or distanceUnderstanding the logic behind mathHolding numbers in their head while solving problemsSome people overlook dyscalculia as just being “bad at math.” But it’s a real challenge that’s based in biology, just like dyslexia is.Dive deeperLearn more about signs of dyscalculia in kids and surprising ways it can affect adults.For families: Get tips on how to help your child with math.For educators: Learn about evidence-based math instruction for struggling students. Possible causes of dyscalculiaResearchers don’t know exactly what causes dyscalculia. But they believe it’s at least partly due to differences in how the brain is structured and how it functions.Here are two possible causes of dyscalculia:Genes and heredity: Dyscalculia tends to run in families. Research shows that genetics may also play a part in problems with math.Brain development: Brain imaging studies have shown some differences between people with and without dyscalculia. The differences have to do with how the brain is structured and how it functions in areas that are linked to learning skills.Researchers aren’t just looking into what causes dyscalculia. They’re also trying to learn if there are strategies that can help “rewire” the brain to make math easier. Dive deeperLearn about the overlap between dyscalculia, dyslexia, and genetics.For families: Explore terms to know if your child struggles with math.For educators: Learn about fraction number lines and other strategies to help kids who struggle with math. How dyscalculia is diagnosedThe only way to get a diagnosis is through an evaluation. This can happen at any age. Evaluators use different tests for adults than for kids.Kids can get an evaluation for free at school. There are also specialists who do private evaluations of kids and adults. Private evaluations can be costly. But there are local resources that offer free or low-cost evaluations.Evaluators use a set of tests just for dyscalculia. But evaluations also involve testing for other challenges. That’s partly because people with dyscalculia often also struggle in other areas, like reading or working memory. But evaluations don’t just point out challenges. They also show strengths.A diagnosis (schools use the word identification) lets kids get supports and services at school. For example, kids might get special instruction in math. The school might also give accommodations to make learning math easier.Adults with dyscalculia may get accommodations at work. The law requires employers to give supports to people with disabilities. That includes people with learning disabilities.A diagnosis of dyscalculia can sound scary. But many people find it a relief to know that their challenges with math are real. Plus, getting the right supports can help them thrive in school, work, and everyday life.Dive deeperFollow a day in the life of a child with dyscalculia.Learn more about getting kids evaluated.Download a dyscalculia fact sheet to share with others.Parents and caregivers: Is your child struggling with math, or has your child been diagnosed with dyscalculia?Educators: Do you have a student who’s struggling with math or who has an IEP for dyscalculia?Do you think you might have dyscalculia?
In It
Busting myths about learning differences and ADHD
There are plenty of myths and misconceptions about learning differences. Let’s get the facts to debunk them. There are plenty of myths and misconceptions about learning differences. Is ADHD just about hyperactivity? Is dyslexia a vision problem? And do kids outgrow learning differences? In this episode, host Gretchen Vierstra shares common myths about learning and thinking differences for co-host Amanda Morin to bust. Listen to Amanda debunk these myths with the facts. Learn why these myths persist and how you can help fight against them. Plus, hear the misconceptions that Amanda, Gretchen, and their producer believed before they learned the truth about learning differences.Related resources6 common myths about learning and thinking differencesWhat are learning and thinking differences?When gifted kids need accommodations, tooEpisode transcriptAmanda: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It." On this podcast, we offer perspectives, stories, and advice for and from people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences. We talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood. And I'm a parent to kids who learn differently.Gretchen: And I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. And today, we want to do some myth busting. There's lots of misconceptions out there about learning and thinking differences.Amanda: And it's totally understandable that there are misconceptions, because a lot of what we've learned over the years about these differences is complicated. It's counterintuitive, and we are still learning, too.Gretchen: Exactly. I don't know about you, Amanda, but I can still remember some of the ideas I had way back when, when I started teaching at a mere 23 years old, that I now know were totally not true.Amanda: Me, too, Gretchen. I think I started teaching when I was 21, and I don't know about you. Do you have, like, examples that stick in your mind of your misconceptions?Gretchen: Yes, totally. You know, as a general education teacher, one of the things I thought I knew about ADHD was that I would be looking for kids and probably mostly boys who were hyperactive. I wasn't thinking about the fact that it could be a student who was quietly not able to focus, right? Couldn't finish the book, perhaps couldn't get through a whole test. I really wasn't thinking about that. I only thought about hyperactivity.Amanda: I think me too. And I wonder how much of that is about when we started teaching and how much of that is about just sort of that expectation that, you know, you see it, you see ADHD in that — that it's like the boys who are running around and bouncing off the walls and jumping off the top of the playground and all of those kinds of things. But we now know that's not true. ADHD, the "H" is hyperactive, but there's also attention deficit in that, right? So that inattention matters as well. There are kids in classrooms, there are kids all over who maybe don't show those hyperactive or impulsivity kinds of things. That's a common one, right?Gretchen: It is. And also, what about the fact that I, going into teaching, thought it would mostly be boys and that the boys would definitely be the hyper ones? I mean, I will admit that is what I thought. And I know that's not true.Amanda: Yeah. And I think, like, I can take that as an early intervention specialist, we often saw boys first, you know, because boys tend to have hyperactive-type ADHD a little bit more often than girls. And that's the first thing people notice. But the truth of the matter is inattentive-type ADHD, that distraction, that daydreaming, that kind of thing, it's also really common. And it's not just girls who have that. So you see it in girls and boys, but it's not the kind of thing, like in a classroom, it's not the kind of thing that like jumps out at you. Because when you're trying to manage all of these kids, the things that are like literally popping up are the things that you're paying attention to more.Gretchen: That's right. What about you, Amanda? Is there any particular idea you had about learning differences that tripped you up as a teacher or maybe as a parent?Amanda: Oh, my gosh. Yes. So as our listeners know, I have kids who have learning differences, too. When I first started this with my own kids, you'd think because I had experience in the classroom that I'd notice it and I'd not have these myths. But I remember thinking with one of my children. I remember thinking like, "Why doesn't he just try harder? He can do all of these amazing things." And it's like what teachers would say to me: "He's just not trying hard enough."I didn't do a real good job at first of pushing back on that and saying, you know, this stuff he needs to learn and has trouble with. I think I may have accepted it more than I should have. And I — that's a whole other thing. But as a teacher — gosh, you know, you have that one kid you remember, you know? I remember from maybe my fifth year of teaching, right? So more years ago than I'm willing to say. But I will say that this child is now probably has her own family, let's just say, right? Had a really hard time learning how to read and do letter sounds and stuff like that, but was also kind of like balky about it. Wouldn't do it and was sort of tuned out a lot of the time. And and I kind of chalked it up to she was being stubborn. And as I look back at it, I realize like she was telling me with her behavior that she was having trouble. And I think that now I would definitely have a conversation with that child's parents and say, "I think we're seeing some signs of reading issues. I think we're seeing some signs of inattentive, maybe ADHD, maybe...." You know, I wish I'd had that conversation and like, I still think about that. And I wonder, you know, how is she doing? What did her rest of her school career look like?Gretchen: I know. It's hard not to focus and blame ourselves for things that we may have missed. The word "blame," though, right? Also reminds me of something else that I think comes up, which is hearing people blame parents for their kids' behaviors. Actually, not just behaviors, but the learning differences themselves. I've heard things like, "Hmm, maybe you just didn't read enough to your child," for a student who has dyslexia. Or "Hmm, are you setting boundaries? Maybe that's why your child has ADHD." I've even heard things about like, "Maybe you're feeding your kids too much sugar." These are all myths, right? This blame that we're placing? These are all myths, aren't they?Amanda: They totally are. And the sugar one, I don't know how many times I've heard that. You know, "If you change his diet a little bit, you know, he'd be calmer." And I kind of have this like maybe if I change his diet, I'd be calmer, but I don't know if he would be calm, right? But I think you're right. Like, I think a lot of times people are looking for a place to put blame and they don't do it deliberately. I think they do it weirdly. They're trying to be helpful. They're trying to say, like, well, if you just tried this, probably it would get better. But what it comes out to, like parents like me, what it is, is like you're not doing it right. And that's really hard. I am going to do the thing where I put our producer Julie on the spot and ask her to chime in. Because Julie, you've worked with us for a few years now, and I'm wondering, what didn't you understand at first or maybe still don't understand about learning differences?Julie: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that I didn't understand and that I'm still learning. I'm a little embarrassed to tell you this one, but it is true that a lot of times when people ask me when I'm working on it, I'm telling them about this podcast, I'll say it's, you know, for families who have kids with learning and thinking differences. And then I say, like, you know, ADHD or dyslexia, and then I sort of trail off.Gretchen: You mumble and....Julie: I feel like I know there are others and some of them we have actually done episodes on. But I wonder, can you spell out for me, what do we mean when we say learning and thinking differences? Amanda: I can do that. OK. So at Understood in particular, we have sort of what we call core issues, right? Issues that we specifically focus on. And the word "learning differences" encompasses a lot of things. But when we talk about some of our core issues, they're actually learning disabilities. And so dyslexia is a language-based learning disability. So that's one of them. There's written expression disorder, which is sometimes known as dysgraphia as well, another learning disability. And then dys-cal-cu-luh — or dyscalculia or however people say it — is a third learning disability that we also focus on. And then we also focus on ADHD, which is not a learning disability, but it can get in the way of learning. And that's another myth. A lot of people think ADHD itself is a learning disability. And then the last thing that we focus on as a core issue and Understood is language disorder. So receptive language, the ability to make sense of what other people are saying to you. And expressive language disorder is the ability to take your thoughts and put them out verbally and have other people understand you. There are other differences. Those are just the ones that we particularly focus on. So now you can go answer that question differently or have people listen to this podcast.Julie: Exactly.Gretchen: No more trailing off.All right, so we've just learned a lot and we're ready to learn more. Because there are actually quite a few misconceptions that we've come across. And I'm so happy that Amanda is here to help us sort through some more of them. So, Amanda, are you ready to tackle another one?Amanda: Indeed.Gretchen: So here's one we hear a lot. It's the belief that a child who is diagnosed with a learning disability will grow out of it. Does that actually happen?Amanda: Oh, that's a really common one, right? It doesn't happen. If you have a learning disability, you have a learning disability because your brain is just processing information differently. What may happen is kids, as they grow older, have more strategies. So they've learned how to accommodate for themselves. So it looks like they maybe they've outgrown some of the things you saw when they were younger. But it's not that they're outgrowing a learning disability. I think that does a disservice to all of the adults out there who have learning disabilities. Because at 18, you're not like, oh, no learning disability anymore. It may change what it looks like and how it shows up, but it's not that it doesn't exist anymore.Gretchen: And what about ADHD, though? I've heard different things about this.Amanda: There is a very small percentage of people, and this is not my expertise, so I want to be really cautious in saying. There's a very small percentage of people who do sort of outgrow the symptomology of ADHD, but it's a very small percentage.Gretchen: All right. Well, here's another one. And I think this is something I held on to for a while when I was a kid. When I first heard about dyslexia, I thought dyslexia was either a vision problem or I thought it was just seeing letters backward and that's it. But we know that's not the case, so please explain, Amanda.Amanda: I think we think that because you see it a lot like in TV and stuff like that, when somebody has dyslexia, you see like the words are swimming on the page or in front of them or that kind of a thing. It's not. I think we're just going to say that. It's not just that. It's not a vision problem. You know, people with dyslexia may have vision problems, but I'm sitting here with my glasses on. I also have vision problems and no dyslexia. I think one of the best things I heard is somebody that we work with who has dyslexia. She said to me, "It's not that I can't read, it's that I had trouble learning how to read, right? I had trouble with the sounds and putting the sounds together in the language." So that was really helpful to me to realize what dyslexia is, is more about that language learning and the being able to decode the sounds and being able to get the vocabulary and get all of that put together. And people who have dyslexia may often have difficulty with sort of their spoken language as well, like retrieving language when they're talking. So that's why it's called a language-based learning disability.Gretchen: Got it. All right. Well, here's another point of confusion, I think, that has to do with kids who are what we call twice exceptional, or 2e. Can you explain what 2e means and how does it throw people off?Amanda: I'll do a quick one and then I will also put a plug in for the fact that we did an episode on twice exceptionality that people can go back to and listen more about. 2e or twice exceptional means that you have a child or adult who is intellectually gifted and also has a disability. It doesn't have to be a learning disability, and I think that's important to note, too. But when we talk about it, we're often talking about kids who have learning disabilities and are also intellectually gifted. And what throws people off there is this myth that, like, you know what, you can't be gifted and also have a learning disability. And it's just not true. One of the things that I think people — and I probably held this misconception as a teacher when I first started, too — is that it sort of cancels each other out, right? But you can have a learning disability and also be in like AP classes. And you can have accommodations in all of those gifted classes. And we all have things that are difficult for us and are not difficult for us. So I think it's just a magnitude thing to think about it that way, too.Gretchen: That's a good way to explain it. All right. Here's the one that people have trouble pronouncing: dys-cal-cu-li-a or dys-cal-cu-luh? I know, I think I say dyscalculia. In any case, this is often described as just math dyslexia. But that's not really how we should be describing it, is it?Amanda: No, no. I've heard people say it's also just like significant math anxiety, which it is also not. Again, I'm going to go back to the brain part of this. It's the way your brain is wired and the way it processes information around math. I actually like the word "dyscalculia" because I can remember it sounds like calculator, so it makes me remember that it's math, right?But you know, it impacts sort of the ability to learn numeracy, which is kind of a fancy way of saying like all of those underlying concepts about numbers — you know, counting, one-to-one correspondence, knowing that a numeral matches a group of numbers, knowing patterns and shapes, estimating, proportionality, all of those kinds of things that are math concepts that we actually use in everyday life. So it's not just about being anxious about math. It's about those everyday skills. You know, people may also have trouble with, like, calculating the tip, you know?Gretchen: Yeah. I never thought how helpful those tip calculators on the end of a receipt. I always thought they were just trying to push me to give more money. But really, maybe it's an accommodation. I should think about it that way.So speaking of accommodations and things like calculators, a lot of people have confusion around this. They see some of the tools that some people might use as accommodations as cheating. So, for example, I'm thinking of assistive technology, things like dictation apps, or audiobooks, or even the calculator. Are those things cheating? Are we stopping people from learning or doing things in the way that they should? I'm using air quotes right now. Or are those things just accommodations? What's the what's the deal here, Amanda?Amanda: It's not cheating. Like, I'm just going to say that flat out. It's not cheating. I've heard that, you know, with kids with a written expression disorder, people say, like, my kid refuses to write, and I think they just want to use the computer. Or, you know, this kid will only read comic books and that's not really reading. And like, those things just aren't actually true, right? These adaptations, these accommodations are actually helping us learn. And what's really interesting is that everybody uses accommodations in their daily life, right? The example I often talk about is way back when, when you used to go to crowded restaurants or whatever, right? And there was a lot of noise going on, and if there was a game on the TV or whatever, oftentimes you have the closed captions on because you can't hear over the crowds, right? My Mr. 12 — we talk about Mr. 12 sometimes, right? He uses closed captions all the time on the TV, not because he needs the closed captions, but because it helps him process the language. He uses the closed captions as an accommodation. But you know what? It helps everybody. Those kinds of things help everybody.Gretchen: Yeah, exactly. And as a former English teacher who filled my classroom with books, I would like to just point out that graphic novels, comics, magazines, all those things counted as reading is my classroom.Amanda: Reading is reading.Gretchen: Reading is reading. Exactly.Amanda: Well, and I would add to that audiobooks, right?Gretchen: Yes. Audiobooks, too. Exactly. Yep. All right. I think one last thing here. A pet peeve, Amanda, that we were talking about just the other day. We were saying how we are not fans of hearing things like, "Oh, I'm so ADHD today," or "You'll have to excuse me, I'm a little OCD." Explain. Why don't we like that so much?Amanda: Gretchen is watching my face do a whole thing right now. I actually have OCD, so that one is very personal to me. It's just like I get frustrated when people use it as a shorthand for explaining what they're having trouble with, right? I have OCD, and I will always have OCD. And so I don't get to put it to the side. "I'm OCD today and I'm not OCD tomorrow and I'm not," you know, like — and so when people use those phrases like, "Oh, I just, you know, I'm so ADHD today" or, you know, "I'm a little OCD," it feels like it sort of diminishes the experience that people have on a daily basis. You know, you don't get to put it away. You don't get to have days when you're not ADHD. It doesn't acknowledge that there are people that this is their whole experience all the time.Gretchen: Yeah, exactly. All right. I think we've covered a lot. Is there anything else, Amanda, that you think we should address?Amanda: I think maybe just that these are just a few of the myths that are right there, right? There are tons of myths and misconceptions which are — that's very hard to say. So the more we bust them, the less we have to say "myths and misconceptions." So just, you know, take a moment to think through. And if you don't know, ask. And if you don't have someone to ask....Gretchen: Write in or ask us.Amanda: Right? I know!Gretchen: Write in or ask us, or go to Understood.org, where we have a ton of articles on many of these myths. We've got articles that are called like "7 Myths About ADHD," for example. I don't know if it's seven, but you know what I mean. We've got lists. And so if you go to a Understood.org, you can find some of these lists and they can explain things. And, you know, if you have someone in your family who maybe is questioning some of the things that perhaps like your child is is learning, they have a diagnosis and a family member saying "that's not true" or "that's not real," send them these facts. We've got fact sheets and we've got myth-busting sheets. And you can send those along to people to help, you know, better educate them and give them the tools so that they can talk about it.Amanda: Send the tools. And I think that what that does is take some pressure off you for having to be the one who feels like you're always educating other people. And we will put links to — I wouldn't — probably not all of them, because we have so many of them. But we'll put links to a lot of them along with other resources in our show notes for this episode, so that you out there can start educating other people and be a myth buster on your own.Gretchen: That's right.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Amanda: And if you liked today's episode, please share it with the folks around you — other parents, your child's teacher, or other people who may want to know more about learning differences and debunk some myths of their own.Gretchen: Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Andrew Lee is our editorial lead. Justin D. Wright mixes the show, and Mike Errico wrote our theme music. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. And Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Gretchen: Thanks for listening and for always being in it with us.
Signs of dyscalculia at different ages
Signs of dyscalculia aren’t always easy to spot. This checklist can give you a better idea of dyscalculia signs at different ages, like trouble with counting and number sense.Keep in mind that all kids have trouble with math from time to time. But kids with dyscalculia struggle a lot more than other kids the same age.Dyscalculia isn’t the same as math anxiety. But kids with dyscalculia often have strong emotions around math. They might get upset or frustrated when playing board games, for example.Refer to this list of signs as you observe your child. Use it to talk about what you’re seeing with your child’s teacher or health care provider.Signs of dyscalculia in preschoolHas trouble learning to count and skips over numbers long after kids the same age can remember numbers in the right orderDoesn’t seem to understand the meaning of counting — for example, when you ask for five blocks, your child just hands you a large group of blocks, rather than counting them outStruggles to recognize patterns, like smallest to largest or tallest to shortestHas trouble understanding number symbols, like making the connection between “7” and the word sevenStruggles to connect a number to an object, like knowing that “3” applies to groups of things like three cookies, three cars, or three kidsSigns of dyscalculia in grade schoolHas trouble learning and recalling basic math facts, like 2 + 4 = 6Still uses fingers to count instead of using more advanced strategies (like mental math)Struggles to identify math signs like + and ‒ and to use them the right wayHas a tough time understanding math phrases, like greater than and less thanHas trouble with place value, often putting numbers in the wrong columnSigns of dyscalculia in middle schoolStruggles with math concepts like commutativity (3 + 5 is the same as 5 + 3) and inversion (being able to solve 3 + 26 ‒ 26 without calculating)Has a tough time understanding math language and coming up with a plan to solve a math problemHas trouble keeping score in sports games and gym activitiesHas a hard time figuring out the total cost of things and keeping track of money (like on a lunch account)Avoids situations that require understanding numbers, like games that involve mathSigns of dyscalculia in high school Struggles to read charts and graphsHas trouble applying math concepts to money, like making exact change and figuring out a tipHas trouble measuring things like ingredients in a recipe or liquids in a bottleLacks confidence in activities that require understanding speed, distance, and directions, and may get lost easilyHas trouble finding different approaches to the same math problem, like adding the length and width of a rectangle and doubling the answer to solve for the perimeter (rather than adding all the sides)If you think your child has dyscalculia, learn about the next steps to take. You may want to talk with your child’s teachers about what you’re seeing. Together you can come up with a plan to get your child the right support.
The Opportunity Gap
Talking to your family about your child’s differences
Telling your relatives about your child’s challenges can be difficult. Get tips on how to make the talk easier to manage. The holidays can be the most wonderful time of the year. But they can also be the most stressful for families with kids who learn differently. That’s because, for some, the holidays mean telling relatives about their child’s learning differences for the very first time. Sometimes, this talk goes smoothly — other times, there are a few bumps in the road. In this episode, listen as Julian explains: Steps parents should take to prepare for the talkWhy parents should avoid using technical terms when telling relativesAnd the importance of setting boundariesRelated resources8 tips for telling family members about your child’s challengesDownload: Tips on how to tell family membersIn It: Holiday survival guide Episode transcriptJulian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. And there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host. Welcome to Season 3. Hey O.G. family! Welcome back to another episode of "The Opportunity Gap." It's me here, and you get to spend some time with your host, Julian, to talk about something that I think all of us experience. It's the holidays, and if you're like me, the holidays can be either a wonderful time of the year or it can be one of the most stressful times of the year. For many of us that are parents, and for those of us that are parents with children with learning and thinking differences, sometimes it can be a little tough. We're going to talk a little bit about what it's like to share about your child's learning and thinking differences and learning disabilities with relatives. Sometimes the conversation can go really smoothly, where everybody is on the same page. Sometimes it can be really stressful. And so we're hoping that we give you some concrete tips on how to walk through that. So, how do you get through this conversation? I'm really glad you asked. Let's dive in. All right. So, first things first. Let's prepare yourself, right? You know that this is happening. The holidays are coming up. A whole bunch of people are going to be around that you might not normally see. Or maybe you do see them and you're just now in this contained space and you want to start to share about your child. Well, first things first. You, as the parent — let me say that one more time — you, only you as the parent. You get to decide who knows about your child's learning and thinking differences. You also get to control how much a person knows, and that includes family, right? Like you're the one that gets to choose what you share and what you don't share. And we always say on this show, you are your child's biggest advocate, even when it comes to family. So, I encourage you to decide how much information do you want to share with different family members? I know from my family, I have a pretty large family. And, I have a rambunctious family, to say the least. My nana was the biggest influence in my family's life, right? Like, she was the person that would come into the room and she owned it. You could hear her voice from a mile away. With her? I was sometimes nervous to share things about my own life. So, I can only imagine if I had to share information about my most precious person in my life, which would be my children. And if she wasn't ready to receive that, I would be nervous. Like, well, how is she going to react to this? What is she going to say? Guess what? You don't have to tell everybody. You don't have to say anything if you don't want to. It's your choice. It's completely up to you. Now, luckily, if you have a nanny like I do, you can share anything and she'll embrace you and give you a big hug and then start laughing again. But if you don't, you have to be prepared. So, sharing information, no matter how much or how little, can help family members better understand your child's needs. It can also help to demystify learning and thinking differences and clear up any questions that they may have. And it also can really help find relatives who understand your child. All right. If you're willing to share more information about them, this is a great chance to find out are there relatives that could really help advocate for you. And you might find out more than you ever knew. So, here's some tips for how to have that talk. So, here's my first tip. Be ready for the different questions you may come across. Be prepared for the questions that may come from different relatives. Some relatives may know a whole lot of information about learning and thinking differences. You may have educators in your family. You may have family members that have children themselves who have learning and thinking differences. You have no idea. There might be people that have knowledge about this that you didn't anticipate. On the other side, you might have family members that have very little knowledge of learning and thinking differences. And especially for family members that are a little bit older, a little bit up in age, a lot of things have changed for how we do things in the special education world and in school in general. Since when your parents or your grandparents were in school, you know? So, when my Nana was in school, things were very different. We've talked about that at length in different episodes on "The Opportunity Gap." Education's drastically changed and so, be prepared for the host of questions that might come at you, especially from older family members. Second tip, this is a big one. Avoid using technical terms. So, even if your relatives have heard the name of your child's condition, they may not know much about it or how it affects kids. They might say, "Well, what is that ADHD or ADD? What does that even mean?" "What do you mean they have dyslexia or dyscalculia? What is that? I don't even know what that means. They just need to learn how to sit down and be quiet."Not to say that that's what's going to happen, but it could. And so, when you have technical terms, sometimes it can be a little abrasive for family members because they might not know what it means and so they might interpret it a different way. Using plain language as much as possible is really helpful to help them understand. Well, "Hey, ADHD, it really means that my son needs a little bit of extra help managing his emotions and he has a little bit of extra energy, so he might need extra reminders." So, it's really important to use plain English or plain language to just make things clear. Number three, third tip. Give helpful details. So, for example, you could say, "Dougie has a hard time with sensory overload. It's really tough for him to be touched, even by the people he loves. Please ask him before you try to hug him. He may not want to be hugged sometimes, but please don't take it personally." All right. So, think about, just like I had said earlier with ADHD. Like, if you know that auntie goes in and she tries to give Dougie a big hug and he reacts in a certain way, making sure that you explain what's happening and providing that proactive sense of detail is really going to be helpful for everybody so that they understand what's going to be best for your child. Because again, your goal is to make sure you're being your child's biggest advocate. Number four. Number four, fourth tip. Lead with the positive. Lead with the positive. I mean, we can't say that this goes for everything. Praise your child's efforts and bring up some strengths and qualities that your relatives might have missed. And this is, especially holidays, I go extra on making sure that everybody's hearing all the positive that my child's doing. Of course. "Oh, great job! Did you just set that table? Look at that! Excellent work." Or "Wow! Did I just hear you use manners? Great job! I love to see that." Making sure that you're providing that extra positive incentive for your children in the midst of this potentially stressful situation is really important. But it's also shadowing to everybody else, "Hey, these are things that are important, so you should be doing the same thing, too." So, you could try something like, "Dougie is doing so well in reading this year. He loves chapter books and his teacher is super impressed with how many he's read this fall." I mean, something as simple as that. It helps reframe the conversation to focus on all the positive that your child is bringing to the table. My last tip. Last but not least. Set boundaries. Let me say that for everybody in the back. Everybody in the front. Everybody in the middle. Set boundaries. Remember — and I cannot stress this enough — remember, you are in control. And I know this is a touchy subject. Like family is family. And family can be great or not so great. It all depends. But ultimately, you are the one that's in control. You get to decide what you're comfortable sharing. If you're not comfortable sharing something, you don't have to. Simple as that. You don't have to share anything you don't feel comfortable with. You decide to create your own rules for your family. And so, don't have any shame or don't feel any type of way about setting boundaries around answering or not answering questions or managing or not managing a situation like it's ultimately your child. And again, as a parent myself, I completely understand. Generational differences come into play with how we parent our children and sometimes we have to be strong enough to say "Pause. It's my child. In this household, this is what we do, and that's it."So, in closing, the first time you speak to your relatives about your child's challenges, it may feel a little awkward. It may feel a little awkward. The important thing is to keep the conversation going. The more you talk, the more others may feel comfortable doing the same. And in some cases, you might find out more information than you didn't previously know. So, before I go, I have a few resources I'd like to share and we'll make sure to link them in the show notes. Understood's article "Six Ways Talking about your Child's Challenges" can help. Check it out. It's a great article. Understood even has a worksheet you can use to prepare for this conversation or this talk. Get practical tips for dealing with holiday challenges in this episode of "In It," one of our other podcasts on the Understood Podcast Network. So, check out "In It" as well. Until next time, listeners. Thank you so much. Take care. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Ilana Millner is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
10 surprising ways dyscalculia impacts kids
When kids have dyscalculia, it impacts how well they learn and do math in school. But having poor number sense and other math skills can also lead to all sorts of challenges in daily life.For example, kids with dyscalculia may have trouble with amounts, time, distance, speed, counting, mental math, and remembering numbers. Those difficulties can show up in ways you might not expect or recognize as being related to math.Here are 10 surprising ways dyscalculia can impact kids.1. Never has the right amount. If you say, “Can you bring out ice cream sandwiches for everyone,” your child is always one or two short.2. Avoids paying at the register. Your child picks out candy to buy at the store, but always has a friend or sibling make the actual purchase.3. Won’t share with a group. When only one friend is over, your child brings out cookies to share. With a group, the cookies stay in the pantry.4. Is constantly late. Your child is excited to be in the school play but is always late for rehearsal. The drama coach isn’t happy.5. Tries to avoid family game night. The minute a game like Yahtzee or Uno comes out, your child runs in the other direction.6. Is slow to enter phone numbers. Even when your child is calling a familiar number, it takes forever to make the call.7. Doesn’t understand the score. When you watch a game on TV, your child can’t tell by the score which team is winning and which one is losing.8. Gets lost easily. You’ve walked together to the store a million times. But every time you leave the store, your child is confused about how to get home.9. Is still afraid to cross the street. Your 12-year-old still grabs your hand to cross the street, or darts across even when no cars are coming.10. Puts off learning to drive. Everyone else has gotten their permit and is busy practicing parallel parking. Your child has no interest.Dyscalculia isn’t always the cause of these behaviors. There are other issues that can cause math difficulties.Discover strategies you can use at home to help with math challenges. And if you’re concerned your child has dyscalculia, explore this list of signs.
Understood Explica el IEP
El IEP: Las 13 categorías de discapacidad
Es necesario que su hijo tenga discapacidad que corresponda a alguna de las categorías de discapacidad para poder calificar para un IEP. En este episodio, explicaremos de qué se trata. Existen 13 categorías de discapacidad enumeradas en una ley federal llamada Ley de Educación para Individuos con Discapacidades, comúnmente conocida como IDEA por sus siglas en inglés.Para obtener un Programa de Educación Individualizado o IEP, su hijo tiene que cumplir con el criterio de tener una discapacidad que se ajuste a alguna de esas 13 categorías.Los nombres de esas categorías pueden ser difíciles de entender, como “discapacidades específicas del aprendizaje” u “otros impedimentos de salud”.En este episodio de Understood Explica, su presentadora Juliana Urtubey hablará de lo que significan esas categorías y cómo se relacionan con el IEP. También explicará qué hacer si su hijo no califica en ninguna categoría de discapacidad o si califica en más de una.Marcas de tiempo:[00:48] ¿Por qué el IEP tiene categorías de discapacidad?[03:25] ¿Cuáles son las 13 categorías de discapacidad en IDEA?[09:46] ¿Las categorías de discapacidad son las mismas en todos los estados?[12:51] ¿El IEP de mi hijo puede incluir más de una discapacidad?[14:19] ¿Qué pasa si mi hijo no califica para ninguna categoría de discapacidad?[16:00] Puntos clavesRecursos relacionadosLas 13 categorías de discapacidad en IDEA (articulo con infográfico)Centros de capacitación para padres: Un recurso gratuito en su estadoDescargar: Modelos de cartas para solicitar evaluaciones y reportesOpciones para resolver una disputa del IEPTranscripción del episodioJuliana: Para obtener un IEP, los niños tienen que cumplir con el criterio de tener al menos una categoría de discapacidad. Pero, ¿y si la capacidad de su hijo corresponde a más de una categoría? ¿Y si no corresponde a ninguna? Desde la red podcast de Understood, esto es "Understood Explica el IEP". En este episodio, revisaremos las categorías de discapacidad que utilizan las escuelas al decidir si un niño califica para recibir educación especial. Mi nombre es Juliana Urtubey, y soy la Maestra Nacional del año 2021. También soy experta en educación especial para estudiantes multilingües y soy la presentadora de esta temporada de "Understood Explica", que está disponible en español y en inglés. Bueno, comencemos.[00:48] ¿Por qué el IEP tiene categorías de discapacidad?¿Por qué el IEP tiene categorías de discapacidad?. Antes de revisar cada una de las categorías, quiero explicar por qué las escuelas las utilizan. La palabra clave es "elegibilidad". Su hijo no puede obtener un IEP, es decir, un Programa de Educación Individualizado, sino cumple con el criterio de al menos una categoría de discapacidad. Este requisito proviene de la ley de Educación para Individuos con Discapacidades o IDEA, por sus siglas en inglés. Esta ley tiene 13 categorías de discapacidad. Los padres escucharán hablar de esas categorías cuando asistan a la reunión de determinación de elegibilidad de su hijo. El equipo revisará las categorías y dirá si su hijo califica para alguna de ellas. Es posible que escuche el término "clasificación de discapacidad". Para muchas familias, ese es un momento muy emotivo de la reunión. Puede ser difícil escuchar que su hijo tiene una discapacidad, pero siempre pueden pedir hacer una pausa para calmarse y ordenar sus ideas. En un minuto revisaremos cada categoría, pero antes de eso hay algunas cosas generales que quiero que sepan sobre ellas. Primero, IDEA tiene trece categorías de discapacidad, pero eso no significa que solo cubra trece discapacidades. Estas categorías son tan amplias que incluso la condición más inusual podría encajar en alguna parte. Segundo, a veces las dificultades que tienen los niños no son causadas por una discapacidad. Por ejemplo, faltar mucho a la escuela o tener dificultad para aprender inglés como idioma adicional. En esos casos existen otras maneras de ayudar a esos estudiantes, pero para obtener un IEP los niños deben tener una discapacidad. Lo siguiente que quiero mencionar, es que algunas categorías de discapacidad puede que reciban más financiación que otras categorías, pero la categoría de discapacidad de su hijo no puede usarse para limitar los servicios de su hijo. Las categorías de discapacidad son puertas a la educación especial y su hijo solo necesita pasar por una de estas puertas para calificar, así tendrá acceso a cualquier tipo de instrucción especialmente diseñada o servicios que necesite. [03:25] ¿Cuáles son las 13 categorías de discapacidad en IDEA? Entonces, ¿cuáles son las 13 categorías de discapacidad en IDEA? Voy a empezar con las cuatro categorías más comunes, y para ayudarlos a comprender lo comunes que son, quiero que se imaginen un gráfico circular. Esto representa a los millones de niños que tienen un IEP. La porción más grande de este gráfico son los niños que tienen discapacidades específicas del aprendizaje o SLD, por sus siglas en inglés. Aproximadamente, un tercio de los niños con IEP, califican para educación especial porque tienen una discapacidad del aprendizaje. Algunos ejemplos comunes incluyen la dislexia, que algunas escuelas llaman un trastorno de la lectura o una capacidad específica del aprendizaje de la lectura. La discalculia es una discapacidad matemática o un trastorno matemático. También existe la disgrafia y el trastorno de la expresión escrita, donde los niños pueden tener mucha dificultad para expresar sus ideas en un papel. Bien, entonces, los niños con discapacidades del aprendizaje representan aproximadamente un tercio del gráfico circular de la educación especial. La segunda porción más grande es para los impedimentos del habla o del lenguaje. Casi una quinta parte de los niños con IEP están en esta categoría. Este grupo incluye a muchos niños que necesitan terapia del habla, también incluye a los trastornos del lenguaje que pueden dificultar de aprender nuevas palabras o reglas gramaticales o comprender lo que dice la gente. Los trastornos del lenguaje también pueden entrar en la categoría de discapacidades del aprendizaje. Por lo tanto, si su hijo tiene un trastorno del lenguaje, puede que sea un poco complicado elegir la categoría. Bueno, entonces ya está lleno la mitad del circulo de educación especial que estamos dividiendo, y solamente con los niños que pertenecen a dos de las trece categorías, discapacidades específicas del aprendizaje e impedimentos del habla o del lenguaje. Ahora, la tercera porción más grande se llama Otros Impedimentos de Salud, OHI por sus siglas en inglés. Incluye alrededor de 1 de cada 6 niños con IEP. Esta es una categoría muy importante para las familias, porque incluye a muchos niños con TDAH, la ley IDEA enumera una serie de ejemplos que encajan en la categoría de "otros impedimentos de salud", incluyendo TDA y TDAH. También incluye asma, diabetes, epilepsia, intoxicación por plomo y anemia falciforme. Estos solo son algunos ejemplos que se mencionan en la ley, esta categoría es muy amplia. Bien, continuemos con la cuarta porción más grande del círculo, que es el autismo. El autismo incluye aproximadamente al 12% de los niños que tienen un IEP. Esto significa que alrededor de 1 de cada 8 o 9 niños con IEP califican para educación especial porque tienen autismo. Ahora, quiero hacer una pausa y señalar que estas cuatro categorías de discapacidad — las discapacidades del aprendizaje, los impedimentos del habla o del lenguaje, otros impedimentos de salud y el autismo — representan alrededor del 80% del círculo. Entonces, ¿qué pasa con el resto de las categorías? Bueno, están las discapacidades intelectuales que ocupan una porción bastante pequeña, el 6% del círculo, es decir 1 de cada 16 niños con IEP. Algunos ejemplos que podrían estar en esta categoría son el síndrome de Down y el síndrome de alcoholismo fetal. Luego está el trastorno emocional, que representa una porción un poco más pequeña, el 5% del círculo — es decir 1 de cada 20 niños con IEP — y cubre cosas como la ansiedad y la depresión. Y luego hay otras 7 categorías que representan porciones muy pequeñas del círculo. El impedimento ortopédico. El impedimento visual, que incluye la ceguera. El impedimento auditivo, que incluye la sordera. La sordoceguera, que tiene su propia categoría y la lesión cerebral traumática. También hay discapacidades múltiples, esta categoría no se usa si el estudiante tiene TDAH y dislexia. Es más probable que discapacidades múltiples se utilicen para algo como discapacidad intelectual y la ceguera o cualquier otra combinación que probablemente requiere un enfoque altamente especializado. Y por último, están los retrasos en el desarrollo, que es la única categoría de discapacidad en IDEA que incluye un límite de edad. Hablaré más sobre eso en un minuto. Pero por ahora les quiero recordar que no todas las personas con una discapacidad califican para un IEP. La discapacidad debe afectar su educación lo suficiente como para necesitar una enseñanza especialmente diseñada. Este es un ejemplo. Supongamos que su hijo tiene TDAH. ¿Necesita enseñanza especialmente diseñada para poder organizarse y enfocarse en lo que está haciendo? O solo necesita algunas adaptaciones en el aula, como sentarse cerca del maestro y alejado de ventanas o pasillos que lo distraigan. Si no necesita enseñanza especializada, la escuela dirá que no califica para un IEP. Pero puede obtener un plan 504. Si desea obtener más información acerca de cómo los niños califican para un IEP, escuche el episodio cuatro. Y si quiere aprender más sobre las diferencias entre el IEP y el plan 504, escuche el episodio dos. [09:46] ¿Las categorías de discapacidad son las mismas en todos los estados?¿Las categorías de discapacidad son las mismas en todos los estados? La respuesta corta es no. La clasificación de la discapacidad puede ser un poco diferente dependiendo del estado. Algunas de estas diferencias son bastante pequeñas. Por ejemplo, algunos estados usan la frase "categoría de discapacidad" y otros usan el término "excepcionalidad". Y algunos estados tienen más de 13 categorías, porque hacen cosas como dividir el impedimento del habla o del lenguaje en dos categorías. Otra diferencia es como los estados utilizan la categoría de retrasos en el desarrollo. A los estados no se les permite utilizar esta categoría después de los nueve años, pero en algunos estados la edad límite es menor. Por ejemplo, yo vivía en Nevada, y ahí se podía clasificar a los niños con retraso en el desarrollo hasta los cinco años. Y cuando cumplían seis años, mi equipo tenía que determinar si otra categoría de discapacidad se ajustaba a sus necesidades. En la mayoría de los casos, esos estudiantes cambiaban a discapacidades específicas del aprendizaje. Pero en Arizona, que es donde vivo ahora, los niños pueden seguir recibiendo servicios bajo la categoría de retrasos en el desarrollo hasta que cumplan 10 años de edad. Hay otra gran diferencia que quiero mencionar, y tiene que ver con la forma en que los estados clasifican a los niños con discapacidades específicas del aprendizaje. Algunos estados todavía evalúan a los niños para las discapacidades del aprendizaje, utilizando lo que se conoce como modelo de discrepancia. Esto consiste en comparar el coeficiente intelectual o la capacidad intelectual de un niño con su rendimiento académico. Un ejemplo de discrepancia, sería un estudiante de quinto grado con un coeficiente intelectual promedio, pero que lea en segundo grado. Pero algunos estados no permiten que las escuelas utilicen un modelo de discrepancia. Esto se debe a que puede haber sesgos culturales y otros problemas con las pruebas del coeficiente intelectual, incluidas las pruebas que se realizan a los niños que hablan un idioma distinto del inglés en la casa. Así que estas son algunas de las formas en que los criterios de elegibilidad pueden diferir de un estado a otro. Si desea saber cuales son los requisitos de elegibilidad de su estado, pregúntele a la persona encargada en la escuela de conectar a los padres con el personal escolar o comuníquese con un centro de información y capacitación para padres. Estos centros, conocidos como PTI, por sus siglas en inglés, son recursos gratuitos para las familias. Cada estado tiene al menos uno. Voy a poner un enlace en las notas del programa, para ayudarlo a encontrar el centro más cercano. [12:51] ¿El IEP de mi hijo puede incluir más de una discapacidad?¿El IEP de mi hijo puede incluir más de una discapacidad? Sí. Si su hijo tiene más de una discapacidad es recomendable mencionarlas en el IEP. Esto puede facilitar que el IEP incluya todos los servicios y adaptaciones que su hijo necesita. Es posible que el equipo del IEP necesite clasificar las discapacidades según cual afecta más la educación de su hijo. Pero no se pueden usar etiquetas como "principal" y "secundaria" para limitar los servicios que recibe su hijo. Es principalmente una herramienta de recopilación de datos para que los estados puedan tener una idea más amplia de quién recibe servicios y para qué. Y si usted no está seguro de cuál categoría de discapacidad debería incluirse como principal, piense que es lo más importante que los maestros deben tener en cuenta para apoyar a su hijo. Otra cosa que quiero mencionar, es que la categoría principal de discapacidad de su hijo puede cambiar a medida que crece. Un ejemplo es que los niños pequeños que tienen un impedimento del lenguaje podría cambiar a discapacidad específica del aprendizaje a medida que sus dificultades con la lectura o la ortografía se definan mejor con el tiempo. [14:19] ¿Qué pasa si mi hijo no califica para ninguna categoría de discapacidad?¿Qué pasa si mi hijo no califica para ninguna categoría de discapacidad? El equipo puede decidir esto después de la evaluación inicial de su hijo. O, si su hijo ya tiene un IEP, es necesario realizar una reevaluación, al menos cada tres años. Y parte del motivo es para ver si su hijo ya no necesita enseñanza especializada. Si la escuela dice que su hijo no cumple con los criterios para ninguna de las categorías de discapacidad, hay algunas cosas que puede hacer. Lo primero es que revise el informe de la evaluación. ¿La escuela examinó las áreas problemáticas correctas? Quizás el equipo necesite realizar más pruebas en otras áreas. También puede solicitar una evaluación educativa independiente, conocida como en inglés por sus siglas IEE. Esta evaluación la realiza alguien que no trabaja para la escuela, lo más probable es que la tenga que pagar, pero en algunos casos la escuela debe cubrir el costo. Understood tiene un buen modelo para ayudarlo a redactar este tipo de solicitudes. Voy a incluir un enlace en las notas del programa. Estos modelos de carta están disponibles en español y en inglés. Otra cosa que puede hacer es conocer las opciones de resolución de disputas. Más adelante en esta temporada tendremos un episodio completo sobre esto, pero voy a incluir el enlace a un artículo para ayudarlo a comenzar. [16:00] Puntos clavesHemos cubierto muchos aspectos en este episodio. Por ello, antes de concluir, voy a hacer un resumen de lo que hemos aprendido. IDEA tiene trece categorías de discapacidad, pero eso no significa que solo cubra trece discapacidades. La categoría de discapacidad de su hijo es una puerta a la educación especial, no limita el tipo de servicios que puede recibir su hijo. El IEP de su hijo puede incluir más de una discapacidad y la categoría principal puede cambiar con el tiempo. Bien, esto es todo por este episodio de "Understood Explica". La próxima vez, vamos a hablar sobre términos importantes y derechos legales que todos los padres deben conocer si sus hijos califican para un IEP. Acaba de escuchar un episodio de "Understood Explica el IEP". Esta temporada fue desarrollada en colaboración con UnidosUS, que es la organización de defensa de derechos civiles hispanos más grande de todos los Estados Unidos. ¡Gracias, Unidos! Si desea más información sobre los temas que cubrimos hoy, consulte las notas del programa de este episodio. Ahí encontrará más recursos, así como enlaces a los temas mencionados hoy. Understood es una organización sin fines de lucro dedicada a ayudar a las personas que piensan y aprenden de manera diferente, a descubrir su potencial y progresar. Conozca más en understood.org/mission.CréditosUnderstood Explica el IEP fue producido por Julie Rawe y Cody Nelson, con el apoyo en la edición de Daniella Tello-Garzón. Daniella y Elena Andrés estuvieron a cargo de la producción en español.El video fue producido por Calvin Knie y Christoph Manuel, con el apoyo de Denver Milord.La música y mezcla musical estuvieron a cargo de Justin D. Wright.Nuestra directora de producción fue Ilana Millner. Margie DeSantis proporcionó apoyo editorial. Whitney Reynolds estuvo a cargo de la producción en línea.La directora editorial de la Red de Podcast de Understood es Laura Key, el director creativo es Scott Cocchiere y el productor ejecutivo es Seth Melnick.Agradecemos especialmente la ayuda del equipo de expertos, cuyos consejos dieron forma a esta temporada de podcast: Shivohn García, Claudia Rinaldi y Julián Saavedra.
Classroom accommodations for dyscalculia
Students who have dyscalculia, a specific learning disability in math, can struggle with both simple and complex math topics. Accommodations can help students work around their challenges. Here are some common accommodations teachers can use to support students with dyscalculia. You can also download and print a list of these accommodations.Introducing new concepts and lessonsReview what the student already learned before teaching new skills.Teach students to “self-talk” through solving problems.Use attention-getting phrases like, “This is important to know because….”Connect math to real life with concrete examples.Demonstrate using manipulatives like coins, blocks, and puzzles. Try virtual manipulatives for higher grade levels. Model how to do the task. Provide a visual example that the student can refer back to during practice. Check in frequently to make sure the student understands the work.Giving instructions Give a rubric that describes the elements of the assignment.Give the student a list of the math formulas, math facts, or tables. Create separate worksheets for word problems and number problems.Break down worksheets into sections.Give more space to write problems and solutions.Highlight or circle key words and numbers on word problems.Give step-by-step instructions and have the student repeat them.Provide checklists for common multi-step procedures.Break down large assignments into smaller, more manageable parts.Give extended time on lengthy assignments or projects.Completing assignmentsOffer graphic organizers to organize information or help break down math problems into steps.Offer graph paper to help line up numbers and problems.Show the student how to focus on one problem by covering the others with a piece of paper. Let the student use visual aids or manipulatives when solving problems.Let the student write out charts or draw sketches to solve problems.Allow a calculator when computation is not the focus of the lesson.Limit the amount of information needed to transfer to paper by including tables, graphs, or number lines on the worksheet. Provide checkpoints on large assignments to offer feedback. Completing testsAllow extra time for assessments. Provide a quiet room with limited distractions for taking tests. Provide a calculator when not evaluating computation.Limit the number of problems on one page. Give plenty of space to solve each problem.More resources Do you have a student who you think has dyscalculia? Explore a day in the life of a child with dyscalculia.Do you think your child needs extra support in math? Explore questions to ask about math instruction.
Video: Teen with dyscalculia shares why she tells friends about her learning issues
What’s it like to have dyscalculia? Ask teen Savannah Treviño-Casias. She won the 2015 Anne Ford Scholarship, an award from the National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD), Understood’s founding partner. Treviño-Casias talks about why she tells friends she has dyscalculia and shares her tips for other kids in this video from NCLD.

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